I'm not with Kerry on this issue....

[grasswire]

...and that's the introduction of biometrics for purposes of citizen identification. In fact, his mention of that for immigration purposes made me wonder where he stands on privacy issues. As a former prosecutor, is he generally on the side of civil liberties, or on the side of law enforcement?

Just something to think about after the election. Jim Hightower says getting him elected is the first task, and then progressives will have to work on him and oppose some of his measures.

[burrowowl]

1. What Jim Hightower says

we also have to get a Democratic Congress!

[Merrick]

15. there are a number of things that fit this category

that progresives will need to exert themselves on to get their new weather vein to blow in the right direction. Kerry's certainly not my idea of an ideal candidate, but besides being far more progressive than *, he at least appears to not be the intransigent type who glues his hands to the wheel and his foot to the gas whilst wearing industrial strength earmuffs...

which is why Kerry will be granted a day's honeymoon upon his inauguration before we start busting his balls.

[Renew Deal]

2. I would be OK with it if it was only for illegal border crossings.

I would not agree with it for legal border crossings.

[grasswire]

4. that's not how it works

It means a biometric database of citizens must be gathered so that non-citizens won't be allowed in. At least that's how I interpret it.

[IIgnoreNobody]

9. WTF?

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[Renew Deal]

12. You might be right

Here is what Kerry said.

KERRY: Four thousand people a day are coming across the border.

The fact is that we now have people from the Middle East, allegedly, coming across the border.

And we're not doing what we ought to do in terms of the technology. We have iris-identification technology. We have thumbprint, fingerprint technology today. We can know who the people are, that they're really the people they say they are when the cross the border.

We could speed it up. There are huge delays.

The fact is our borders are not as secure as they ought to be, and I'll make them secure.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/debatereferee/debate_1013.html

[w13rd0]

3. As an IT worker...

...I want to see a number of initiatives that create new jobs and opportunities. And heck, we'd get to see how the right wing loons that have been supporting all this BS feel about the power they've ceded Bush being in the hands of the "other side"...

[grasswire]

8. that's an interesting point...

....but I'm not sure that giving government the power to intimidate dissidents and monitor their movement is worth the addition of some new IT jobs. Let's develop other venues for IT work instead.

[IIgnoreNobody]

5. He wasn't talking about 'citizen' identification.

I don't know where you got that impression. He was talking about border security, period.

KERRY: Four thousand people a day are coming across the border.

The fact is that we now have people from the Middle East, allegedly, coming across the border.

And we're not doing what we ought to do in terms of the technology. We have iris-identification technology. We have thumbprint, fingerprint technology today. We can know who the people are, that they're really the people they say they are when the cross the border.

We could speed it up. There are huge delays.

The fact is our borders are not as secure as they ought to be, and I'll make them secure.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/debatereferee/debate_1013.html

[KoKo]

10. Wasn't there a James Bond movie which used "iris" identification?

Spooky...

[grasswire]

13. look again

"We have iris-identification technology. We have thumbprint, fingerprint technology today. We can know who the people are, that they're really the people they say they are when the cross the border."

How do you certify that people are who they say they are unless you gather the biometric iris "prints" of the citizenry?

A person wants to cross from Mexico or Canada into the U.S. The customs agent scans his/her iris. And??? Citizenship or identity is only verifiable if the iris print is already in a database.

[IIgnoreNobody]

16. You are simply adding to what Kerry said and reacting to your own addition

First of all, even if a citizen biometric database such as you propose (and let's be clear - you are the one offering this suggestion, not Kerry) were created I still don't believe it would lend itself to the kind of certainty you imply.

But second and more importantly, the fact is that all Kerry proposed is increasing the use of identification technology at border crossings. What you are worried about is based on your fear, and your belief that increasing the use of identification technology at border crossings would neccesitate a 'citizen biometric database'.

I don't think that's true at all. We certainly could increase the use of identification technology at border crossings without what you suggest.

[Minimus]

14. that is how I took it. use technology as an aid to process border

crossings.

I wonder how often someone that is "legal" gets caught up in the red tape waiting game of trying to figure out if they are actually allowed to enter. As well, I wonder how many come into the country with forged identification documents.

[KoKo]

6. Yes, I had a problem with that, too. Especially since I'd just finished

reading an article that "micro-chips" had just been approved by FDA for implantation in patients. As of now one has to request the implant chip and the cost is over $500.00, but what if our insurance companies and doctors start to require them for all of us? What if they refuse to treat us if we don't have one, and what if airlines and employers start to see this as a way to verify everything about you.

The article said that people in Great Britain were already requesting them to go "clubbing" so they could get access to areas by just having their chip read. And, mentioned thousands of pet owners who are using them.

[sandnsea]

7. Is it a choice thing?

I really don't know anything about that particular dit. I'm just thinking of a proposal made for the airlines, if people wanted to have their eye scanned or whatever, for quick boarding, they could. I was wondering if that's what he meant, for people who go across the border every day, truckers and the like, we could be using voluntary id technology to reduce the pressure on border patrols.

Personally, I've put my thumbprint on exactly one check in my lifetime and I'm not inclined to ever go much beyond that.

[Zen Democrat]

11. You got it wrong. This is a system where frequent border crossers

would submit thumbprints or retina scans so that they could travel
back and forth without waiting in the long lines. This would speed up
border crossings and free up the patrol somewhat. It would be
strictly voluntary.

[SidDithers]

17. I cross the border a few times every year...

usually to see the Bills or Sabres in Buffalo. If having my thumbprint in a computer would speed the crossing, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Sid

[TexasSissy]

18. Law enforcement is not against civil liberties, IMO.

You can be for both. I am.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. Well, Duh. He's not a liberal, he's a moderate and a former

prosecuter. He's a solid dem with good credentials, and I support him completely but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking he's Paul Wellstone.