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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 02:40 AM
Original message
"Who Killed John O'Neill" video -something new?
Edited on Sun Jun-04-06 02:51 AM by mirandapriestly
it looks like this was made in 2004, but I've never seen it before, so I apologize if anybody has posted this here before. Ty Rauber made it and it has one actor playing all the parts -a conspiracy theorist, a paranoid "they're after us" type, an OCTer, a philospher and they are all discussing 911-it's kind of like this forum. He ties Kroll, CIA, AIG together, speculated that Kroll is a sort of privatized CIA, running on drug money but able to do what the CIA can't because they aren't allowed. Some of this relates to the Hopsicker story. Why are these Kroll types anti terrorism experts; where do they get the information? Then they show how people move between these corporations and CIA . Doesn't spend a lot of time on the hows and why's of the actual day, more about drugs insurance companies/CIA and the piece de resistance -what Al Qaeda really is and what Mohammed Atta's function was, his opinion will make a lot of sense as to Atta's behavior -I won't ruin it for you , but I will give more info if someone doesn't have time to watch it. I'm interested in what you guys think

This is all for the same video , I gave different links in case some didn't work:

Movie Downloads:


(urls thanks to post at let'sroll911)
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you for this, Miranda
Edited on Sun Jun-04-06 02:49 AM by Hope2006
I need to go to bed as it is late here, but, I intend to do some serious reading of your links tomorrow.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It is just one video
I gave different links in case some of them didn't work. I'm up late again, too.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kicking my own thread
It's a good video, I think.
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. I watched it
Edited on Sun Jun-04-06 04:50 PM by Hope2006
I thought it was very unique in the way it was done, and it contained a huge amount of information. so much info, that it was sometimes difficult to process it all.

The info in the film is actually pretty frightening -- and, it left me feeling a little hopeless.

I had never seen this film, so I appreciate the find.
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. I chose to download from google/video and with my dial up
looks like I might be able to see this by midnight. I saw a site "jewsagainstzionism" what's up with that?I
thought all jews were zion. Israel= mother-land= zion.. I am out of the loop regarding jews-zion-likuders. can anyone enlighten me?
Thanks miranda for the new o'neil video. I saw on PBS a documentary about John O'Neil and how close he was to the inner workings of al-queda/osama and when he was set up for dismissal for allowing his briefcase to be stolen from a meeting which he attended with other FBI types.
John O'Neil knew something "BIG" was gonna happen. How right he was.

see you later with my opinion of this video.

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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. "Jews against Zionism" doesn't have anything to do with
the video, FWIW and the video doesn't involve or even mention Israel, zionism, and or Jews just in case someone starts making racism accusations. It is strictly U.S. corporations & different government & intelligence agencies, and the ISI. I think that site, whatever it is, hosts the video or something, but it is unrelated. .
Zionism is the support for Israel or maybe a sort of Jewish nationalism. It doesn't refer to the actual Jewish people. So it's like the difference between the American people and American as a country, not all us of support what this country does.
I didn't have any problem with the video, DiD, I'm sorry you're having a hard time, it's good, I think you'll like it.
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. miranda, no racism or jewish disrespect intended here, just an inquiry
as to jewsagainstzion. Its puzzling to me how jews can be against zion. My impression (belief) was the zionism is the love of Israel and since all Israeli's are jewish it kind of confused me and still does but I don't want to go there.
That video I tried downloading quit/crashed on me after 5 minutes of viewing. Earlier I attempted to link with QT and got an ActiveX pop up. The last time I did that (clicked ok)my computer froze and went through contortions (lol) and I needed to call tech help. I was afraid of that tonight so I'll try another of your links.
I spend a lot of time viewing videos from I see "flashes" that no doubt were linear shaped charges/thermite cutter charges or even some new high tech explosives. When I watch the videos I repeat it maybe 5-10 times. I just spotted this new flash
look down to the third row (2 windows)on the left look close and see the flash. Many more on other camera angles.
also this page look at the 5 windows the one on the right (5th) look down the north side of WT2 at the building's edge. I see flashes in coordination exactly
like a controlled demolition.
there are others including a flash from the south side of WT7 although grainy and smokey a flash is seen on the upper floor of WT7
One more thing. Were you aware of the 5 Israeli students (mossad spy's) who were videotaping the attacks in NYC from across the Hudson River? They were lated arrested and spent 60 days in custody before being deported back to Israel. Why no MSM coverage? Why no release of that video? Why the silence?
Let me go try another link and watch John O'Neil..

see you later
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I didn't mean you , DiD, I should have made myself more clear
Edited on Sun Jun-04-06 11:28 PM by mirandapriestly
I meant the people who are always looking for something to "jump on". I get that stupid ActiveX thing, on a lot of videotapes too, I can't figure out how to get around it.
I'll check your video's out too, there hasn't been a good "flash" conversation in a long time.
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I am going to post a major flash on the sw side of wt2..
check out this flash,the clip is just 3-4 seconds but I countd 3 flashes. put all doubts to rest as to what they are, detonations.
check this out.

there are 11 videos here. spend some time and watch them.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Zionism in its current form
is support for the state of Israel 'by any means necessary' (including violence, war) - which to certain Jews is blasphemy. In Israel there is considerable opposition to zionist policies - as in the US there is considerable opposition to US policies...
As with so many things, there are significant facts and events in the world that don't get much airtime.

Not that i "want to go there", but i do urge you to look into it.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
156. Pssssttt.... all Israeli's are NOT Jewish.
Israel contains all faiths and has massive Christian and Muslim quarters within the Holy City of Jerusalem.

Just a note for ya.
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #156
157. that particular poster (DemInDistress) was tombstoned
for being an anti-Semite. He had a particular axe to grind here.
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. Wanted to add
that the film pretty accurately portrayed some of the dynamics we see in this forum, FWIW.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. only that guy was civil.nt
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pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks for the link.
I had never seen that one. A plethora of information.
Once again we see Paul Thompson's fine research coming through. A clever artistic presentation as well. I agree with one of the points made early on in the film where they say that whether or not 911 was an inside job, the CIA bears responsibility for it by funding and building radical Islam through the Mujahedeen and the ISI.

Another strong case made without going into the physical evidence. Thumbs up for the approach.

There was no discussion of Zionism in the film so I'm not sure
why there are links stating that.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I noticed that -no physical evidence
well maybe a little on cd, and wtc 7, but I found it very convincing and I noticed they credited the timeline at the end. I like the idea too, that the CIA is responsibe through the creation of radical Islam . Why is there no accountability? Instead they are allowed to continue in their secretive activities at our expense which is only going to lead to more of this.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. Bump for people to watch
I'll add that he links al qaeda with drug running. It's interesting if you've stopped watching tv, watch this instead.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kick. I usually don't like 2 hour downloads, but this was awesome
I like the part that it wasn't that much about physical evidence which is basically the topic here in the forum and the sad part is that it will rarely proof or disproof any theory, so both MIHOP and OCT are mainly unproven based on physical evidence.

I loved that part about OKC, because it really doesn't make sense that it wasn't al-Qaeda, since there are clues to some Islamic networks as well yet they remained unexplored in the official investigation which was just as sloppy as 9/11.

It was your comment on the Hopsicker 5,5t story which made it really interesting, because this story with al-Qaeda as a drug cartel + Hopsicker's Atta investigation + 5,5t story + Skyway's previous 2 ton bust in 1999 in Paris makes it something worth considering. The whole Mena to Venice story makes sense.

The involvement of the Saudis would then be explained as their jihad against the heathen infidels by controlling their drug trade; for the War Party it would be Shackley's Third Option. It also explains why Osama bin Laden was chosen as the leader of the pack.

John O'Neill: "The main obstacles to investigate Islamic terrorism were US oil corporate interests, and the role played by Saudi Arabia in it."

And we don't even have to talk about concrete cores or whether Atta was flying the planes or whether it was a missile or a Boeing which hit the Pentagon... because those are mere details.

P.S. If we can't have an independent 9/11 investigation, who about an independent investigation into John O'Neill.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
84. Short Summary: Means, Motive, Opportunity
Edited on Mon Jun-26-06 06:23 PM by DrDebug
Short summary Mon June 26, 2006:

Meet the CIA of the 21st century. Privatized, independent and hidden from view.
  • AIG as Money Laundering Inc.
  • Marsh as Terrorism Inc.
  • Kroll as the privatized CIA Inc.
  • al-Cokeda as the drug dealers in the flight school who are later called terrorists in the OCT.


    American International Group = Maurice "Hank" Greenberg
    Marsh & McLennan = Jeffrey Greenberg
    Ace = Evan Greenberg (not featured in the story thus far)
    al-Cokeda probably run by Adnan Khashoggi

    Kroll always had AIG as shareholder and is currently part of Marsh.

    Possible teams for 9/11:

    October 11, 2001 Marsh established specialized terrorism team called Marsh Crisis Consultancy
    The following teams were added to it: Control Risks Group, a British ex-SAS team and Versar homeland defense team. The same group could have known each other from 9/11

    Kroll has military team in their company and merged with Armor Holdings on August 23rd thus adding Defence Systems Limited, another Private Military Corporation, to their operations, an ex-KGB team called Alpha Firm was earlier acquired by Defence Systems Limited.

    That makes at least four teams which could have been used on 9/11.
    Additional teams from the military could have been used as well.

    They had the means to do this.

  • Marsh had full control on WTC1 where they occupied all floors.
  • Marsh had the top floor of the WTC2 "impact" and could have worked their way down, however the main occupant was Fuji bank with whom AIG did a lot of work and also featured in Iran-Contra.
  • WTC7 contained a CIA office and Kroll and AIG are very closely related to the CIA and it is very likely that Kroll is the privatized version of the CIA
  • The Pentagon was of course under their own control.

    They had the opportunity to do this.

  • AIG/Kroll/Marsh are closely connected to the Bush administration, to Henry Kissinger.
  • AIG/Kroll/Marsh are also closely related to the Intelligence Community.
  • AIG/Kroll/Marsh capitalized on 9/11 and it was good for their business.
  • AIG was laundering drug money for al-Cokeda.
  • AIG was involved in the oil and gas line to Afghanistan
  • There is reason to believe that the Taliban either cut back on the drug trade or that they went into business for themselves. Either way the flow of heroin from Afghanistan was drastically limited.
  • Greenberg and Khashoggi had a business relation and benefited for the narcotics from Afghanistan and had interest in the oil and gas line as well

    They had motive to do this.
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    tyrauber Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:41 PM
    Response to Reply #84
    96. keep digging....

    What were the 3 companies who insured the WTC?

    AIG, MMC and ACE. All run by Greenbergs at the time.

    They then sold stakes of the original contract to their competition, a process called reinsuring. Once the towers came down, the reinsurers got caught holding the bag.

    Note: Who mortgaged the WTC? The Blackstone Group, headed by Peter J. Peterson, current head of the CFR. The Blackstone Group bought into Kroll in 93 at the same time as AIG took majority control. Henry Kissenger sits on the board of the Blackstone Group.

    Ty Rauber
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:59 PM
    Original message
    Feel free to add any sublink to this story
    Edited on Tue Jun-27-06 05:44 PM by DrDebug
    Basically grab 4-5 paragraphs of the original story and mark out the keywords with bolding because that's easy for glance reading. Add the source. I already see that Blackstone once again ties in AIG and Kissinger and featured in Enron as well. Enron was probably a similar fraud game played by the same group of friends and people discovering Enron might look at AIG as well.

    The Blackstone Groupis a private investment banking firm and describes itself as a "leading global investment and advisory firm." The Blackstone Group was founded in 1985 by a group of four, including Peter G. Peterson and Stephen A. Schwarzman.

    The Blackstone Group has ties to American International Group, Inc. (AIG) and Kissinger Associates, Inc./Henry Kissinger. According to the Blackstone website, AIG acquired a 7% non-voting interest in the company in 1998 for $150 million "and committed to invest $1.2 billion in future Blackstone-sponsored funds".

    "Blackstone has developed strategic alliances with some of the largest and most sophisticated international financial institutions. In addition to AIG, they include Kissinger Associates, Roland Berger & Partner, GmbH, and Scandinaviska Enskilda Banken," the website states (1)

    In December 2001, The Blackstone Group was appointed as Enron's principal financial advisor with regard to its financial restructuring. (2) he company also advised Enron on "the Sale of its North American Power and Gas Trading Business to UBS" (3)


    Blackstone Group & 7 World Trade Center

    New York, NY October 17, 2000: Blackstone Real Estate Advisors, the global real estate investment and management arm of The Blackstone Group, L.P., announced today that it has purchased, from Teachers Insurance and Annuity Association, the participating mortgage secured by 7 World Trade Center, a commercial office complex controlled by real estate developer Larry Silverstein. (1)

    But before the building can rise further than the substation, major financing issues have to be resolved by Larry Silverstein, who controls the long-term lease on 7 World Trade Center as well as the World Trade Center complex. The good news for Mr. Silverstein is that the company that insured 7 World Trade, Industrial Risk Insurers, has indicated that it will make a full payment under its $861 million policy. But it's not clear whether Mr. Silverstein can use those proceeds to start building without first reaching an agreement with the mortgage holder on 7 World Trade Center, Blackstone Real Estate Advisors. (2)

    Kissinger McLarty Associates has a strategic alliance with the Blackstone Group. The Blackstone Group describes their relationship thus:
    Blackstone's alliance with Kissinger McLarty Associates is designed to help provide financial advisory services to corporations seeking high-level strategic advice. The relationship was announced in 2000 and recently completed its first strategic advisory assignment on behalf of a NYSE-listed company.(3)

    Infact the alliance also incorporates Maurice Greenbergs American International Group, as per this press release on February 21st 2000:

    American International Group, Inc. (AIG), The Blackstone Group L. P. and Kissinger Associates Inc. announced the establishment of a new venture to provide financial advisory services to corporations seeking high-level independent strategic advice. <> The venture will operate globally and will take advantage of the existing relationships between the partners:

    AIG has an ownership interest in Blackstone and is an investor in several of Blackstone's private equity funds;
    - AIG and Blackstone have a joint venture, specializing in restructuring and M&A advisory services in selected Asian countries;
    - Henry Kissinger chairs both AIG's International Advisory Board and the advisory boards of several AIG-sponsored Infrastructure Funds.

    The AIG-Blackstone-Kissinger Associates venture recently completed its first advisory assignment on behalf of a New York Stock Exchange listed U.S. company.

    (note: M&A means Mergers and Acquisitions)


    And much more:

    Blackstone is interesting because it ties Northrop Grumman in the diagram which is at the heart of the Military Industrial Coplex. It doesn't proof that they are directly involved, but they did benefit as well.

    Peterson ties in with CFR, Federal Reserve and was a former CEO of Lehman Brothers who was one of the "victims" in 9/11 as well as one of the insider traders. Swarzman once again goes to Lehman Brothers.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 05:58 PM
    Response to Original message
    102. Blackstone / Silverstein / Enormous Insurance Scam
    Edited on Tue Jun-27-06 05:59 PM by DrDebug

    Financial Bonanza behind the 9/11 Tragedy:
    Who are the Financial Actors behind the WTC?
    by Michel Chossudovsky 12 March 2004

    The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at grants permission to cross- post original Global Research (Canada) articles in their entirety, or any portions thereof, on community internet sites, as long as the text and title of the article are not modified. The source must be acknowledged as follows: Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at . The active URL hyperlink address of the original Global Research (Canada) article must be used for postings and the author's copyright must be displayed. (For articles from other news sources, check with the original copyright holder, where applicable.) For publication of Global Research articles in print or other forms including commercial internet sites, contact: .

    Copyright M CHOSSUDOVSKY 2004.

    The URL of this article is:

    This article was published in Issue 7 of Global Outlook, Spring 2004.

    On October 17, 2000, eleven months before 9/11, Blackstone Real Estate Advisors, of The Blackstone Group, L.P, purchased, from Teachers Insurance and Annuity Association, the participating mortgage secured by World Trade Center, Building 7 (1)

    April 26, 2001 the Port Authority leased the WTC for 99 years to Silverstein Properties and Westfield America Inc. The transaction was authorised by Port Authority Chairman Lewis M. Eisenberg.

    This transfer from the New York and New Jersey Port Authority was tantamount to the privatisation of the WTC Complex. The official press release described it as "the richest real estate prize in New York City history". The retail space underneath the complex was leased to Westfield America Inc. (2)

    On 24 July 2001, 6 weeks prior to 9/11 Silverstein took control of the lease of the WTC following the Port Authority decision on April 26.

    Silverstein and Frank Lowy, CEO of Westerfield Inc. took control of the 10.6 million- square-foot WTC complex. "Lowy leased the shopping concourse called the Mall at the WTC, which comprised about 427,000 square feet of retail space." (3)

    Explicitly included in the agreement was that Silverstein and Westfield "were given the right to rebuild the structures if they were destroyed". (4)

    In this transaction, Silverstein signed a rental contract for the WTC over 99 years amounting to 3,2 billion dollars in installments to be made to the Port Authority: 800 million covered fees including a down payment of the order of 100 million dollars. Of this amount, Silverstein put in 14 million dollars of his own money. The annual payment on the lease was of the order of 115 million dollars. (5)

    In the wake of the WTC attacks, Silverstein is suing for some $7.1 billion in insurance money, double the amount of the value of the 99 year lease. (6)

    1. Business Wire, 17 October 2000
    2. See Paul Goldberger in The New Yorker, May 20, 2002.
    3 C. Bollyn, "Did Rupert Murdoch Have Prior Knowledge of 9/11?" Centre for Research on Globalization,, 20 October 2003.
    4. Goldberger, op cit
    5, Associated Press, 22 November 2003. See also Die Welt, Berlin, Oct 11, 2001.
    6. Alison Frankel, The American Lawyer, Sept 3 2002

    The WTC Towers Collapse: an Enormous Insurance Scam
    Alberta Independent Media Centre, 11 April 2003 19 December 2003

    The URL of this article is:

    On the 23rd July, 2001, just seven weeks previous to the World Trade Center demolitions, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey signed a deal with a consortium (Larry Silverstein, Westfield America Inc and Lloyd Goldman) led by Larry Silverstein for a 99 year lease of the World Trade Center complex. The leased buildings included WTCs One, Two, Four, Five and 400,000 square feet of retail space. The Marriott Hotel (WTC 3), U.S. Customs building (WTC 6) and Silverstein's own 47-story office building (WTC 7) were already under lease. Silverstein is seeking $7.2 billion from insurers for the destruction of the center. Here are few articles concerning the World Trade Center deal and consequent legal wrangle.

    The two hijacked airliners that struck the 110-story twin towers Sept. 11 were separate "occurrences" for insurance purposes, entitling him to collect twice on $3.6 billion of policies, a spokesman for Mr. Silverstein said.

    Companies that insured the building, including Chubb Corp., Swiss Reinsurance Co., Allianz AG, Ace Ltd. and XL Capital Ltd., said that because the attack was coordinated it counts as only a single occurrence.


    The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at grants permission to cross- post original CRG articles in their entirety, or any portions thereof, on community internet sites, as long as the text and title of the article are not modified. The source must be acknowledged as follows: Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at . The active URL hyperlink address of the original CRG article and the author's copyright note must be clearly displayed. (For articles from other news sources, check with the original copyright holder, where applicable.) For publication of CRG articles in print or other forms including commercial internet sites, contact: .

    Ultimately Silverstein was awarded nearly $5 billion in insurance money following the destruction of the Twin Towers
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 06:50 PM
    Response to Reply #102
    104. ACE's WilProp to prevent Silverstein's double whammy
    Edited on Tue Jun-27-06 06:56 PM by DrDebug
    It is a bit weird that Ace, part of American Insurance Greenberg, was a reinsurer, however the amount was limited for Ace as well as XL Insurance - used to be strategic partners and are currently wholely owned by AIG ( ) and also in Bermuda of course - due to a very strange clause called WilProp.

    ACE, XL Reach Accord with Silverstein on WTC Claims
    February 18, 2002

    Settlement negotiations have been successfully concluded between Silverstein Properties, the master leaseholder on the destroyed World Trade Center, and ACE Bermuda Insurance Ltd. and XL Insurance (Bermuda) Ltd, operating units of the island's two biggest insurance companies who wrote the actual coverage on the twin towers.

    ACE agreed to pay $298 million,and XL $67 million, a total of $365 million, to settle all claims. Both companies took pains to announce that the settlement was based on "one event," rather than two, as Silverstein has asserted in the company's lawsuit against Swiss Re and other insurers. "The settlement is based upon a single occurrence and therefore will comprise payment of only one policy limit," said the ACE bulletin.

    Howard Rubenstein, a spokesperson for Silverstein, pointed out that the two Bermuda insurers "were the only participants in the insurance program that had signed binders expressly referencing the so-called 'WilProp' policy form and had never been advised of any different form. Unlike the policies, binders or slips issued by the other insurers, the WilProp form includes a special term that defines an "occurrence" to mean all losses attributable 'directly or indirectly' to 'one cause or to one series of similar causes."'

    Rubenstein went on to explain that the policy wording put ACE and XL "in a different posture from the other insurers based on the unique circumstances of the placing of their portions of the coverage." He also indicated that the settlement provided for immediate payment of the "single occurrence limits," avoiding a protracted dispute over when payment should be made.

    Finally Rubenstein reiterated Silverstein's position, and reasserted that "no other insurer can make the same claim as ACE Bermuda and XL," adding that, "We are confident that under New York law and under the binders and policies of all of the other insurers, the separate crashes of two planes into two buildings at two separate times constitute more than one 'occurrence.' The insureds fully expect to recover from the remaining carriers on a multiple-occurrence basis."
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 03:32 AM
    Response to Reply #102
    126. Silverstein is suing for payment
    Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 04:31 AM by mirandapriestly
    I wonder how the insurance companies fit in with Marsh, etc.

    What I don't get is why the insurance companies did not investigate.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:07 AM
    Response to Reply #126
    133. Indeed. That's a weird part as well
    Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 10:15 AM by DrDebug
    Unlike that AIG/Kroll/Marsh thing the Port Authority-Silverstein game was known from the beginning and was very transparant.

    XL and Ace were part of the Greenberg cartel and they had a special clause to protect against the double whammy and it was a small amount compared to the others. They were also quickly friends again. Maybe it was a bit of laundry for them.

    The others did try to fight a bit and they were different. Swiss Re was the main one and there was immense inside trading on that company. Then again it didn't fight too hard either which is weird since they had to cough up billions. They are direct competition of AIG and are the largest reinsurer (not insurer) in the world with a revenue of $35 billion Swiss Francs.

    Allianz AG is even stranger, because one of their US companies is Fireman's Fund Insurance Company (from Huffman Aviation) which is very closely connected to the CIA and even shares the same floor as Marsh. Allianz is the biggest corporation in the world based on revenue with $130 billion (sic!) revenue a year only some like Microsoft, Exxon and the other sisters are more profitable. So on the outside they appear to be competition, but maybe they are not.

    Maybe they are a bit like Josef Ackermann of the Deutsche Bank who is in every secret society you can think of and probably comparable to Henry Kissinger or the David Rockefeller as far connections goes. Especially since Allianz is even bigger.

    Some sources:
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:49 AM
    Response to Reply #126
    134. The following weird list
    Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 11:50 AM by DrDebug
    US competitor:

  • Chubb. Did reinsurance. Was also an inside trader (totally weird??)

    Global competitors (AIG is #3):
  • Allianz. #1 global insurance company. Was not an inside trader. Was being traded heavily. Did reinsurance. Fireman's Fund with the Huffman connection doesn't make sense though.

  • AXA SA. #2 global insurance company. Was not a reinsurer. Was traded heavily in France since they own more than 25% of American Airlines so it was a double treat and many vultures descended on AXA. The weird thing is of course that they had a good feast themselves as well, so maybe AIG did inform them, especially since they are the biggest owner of American Airlines. (They should change the name to French Airlines)

    Reinsurance competitor:
  • Swiss Re. #1 reinsurance company. Was being traded heavily. (60 times normal). Swiss Re did not participate
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 06:24 PM
    Response to Reply #96
    103. One thing about CFR etc.
    Edited on Tue Jun-27-06 06:25 PM by DrDebug
    They are more coordinating groups where all the politicians, bankers, corporate CEOs can conspire together with their big plans, but they are slightly weaker links.

    The same applies to Le Cercle - secret group of global spooks often refered to as the Bilderberg of Spies - who undoubtly have been used to coordinate the various spook organizations. ( )

    The weak point is that those are not direct link, but more membership issues and places where the partners in 9/11 would have met and conspired, however the direct links are the strong evidence. Just like Paul Bremer, William H.T. Bush and Porter Goss - co-chair Joint 9/11 Intelligence Inquiry - are joined in the Fence club since Yale.
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    tyrauber Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:33 PM
    Response to Reply #16
    94. You, sir, are correct.

    Why worry about remote controlled airplanes, thermite, etc., when we can concentrate on what can be proven? I.E. The financial trail. The associations. The relationships between people, corporations and government officials. It is these details that can be proven and they do not take an engineering degree to understand.

    Ty Rauber
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:39 PM
    Response to Reply #94
    95. Welcome to the Dungeon
    Edited on Tue Jun-27-06 04:39 PM by DrDebug

    Yeah, I think I'll keep the planes optional for now. I love no-planes though, because they are not required.

    We have documentation on the major issues now. It's a bit messy, but people can start to summarize etc.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 10:02 AM
    Response to Original message
    17. Kroll Inc in Brazil a.k.a. Brazil's biggest corporate scandal

    The Brazilian connection
    June 25, 2005
    A businessman caught up in an industrial espionage scandal in Brazil has turned up in Sydney. Ben Hills investigates.

    By Brazilian standards, Operation Jackal was carried out with clockwork precision. On a steamy spring day, 90 agents of the elite Policia Federal burst into a dozen homes and offices in four cities, seizing documents and computer hard drives, and arresting some of the country's most prominent businessmen.

    The raids last October were the climax of a seven-month investigation into the activities of Kroll Inc, the largest and most flamboyant of the world's "risk management" companies, whose activities range from rescuing hostages to tracking down stolen treasure - and, so the police allege, illegal industrial espionage.

    As the story unfolded, some of the biggest names in Brazilian business and politics were dragged into the affair - the head of the country's central bank, the minister for communications, the boss of the country's third-largest telecommunications company, an investment banker with links to America's giant Citigroup.

    As the investigation widened, more than a dozen people were arrested, including executives and employees of Kroll who were initially accused by the police of crimes including conspiracy, illegal phone-bugging, and bribery. They included its joint chief executives, Eduardo Gomide and Vander Aloisio Giordano.

    The boss of Kroll's Brazilian operations, its president, a 35-year-old US-educated businessman named Eduardo Sampaio, escaped the dragnet. Not long after news of the police investigation had broken four months earlier, Sampaio left the country and - to the surprise of Australia's risk management community - arrived in Sydney to take up a position as head of what is now called the Marsh Risk Consulting Group, Kroll having been taken over in the meantime (see story page 46).

    However, two weeks ago, charges were formally laid against Sampaio, six other Kroll executives and contractors, and 19 other people in what has blown up into the Brazil's biggest corporate scandal.

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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 06:17 PM
    Response to Reply #17
    18. Kroll - A private CIA
    Edited on Tue Jun-20-06 06:34 PM by mirandapriestly
    What is it about risk management that keeps popping up? I see it in relation to P-tech, Marsh, Kroll, it's one of those coincidences.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 06:38 PM
    Response to Reply #18
    19. I think it has something to do with Poppy's privatized CIA
    Edited on Tue Jun-20-06 06:41 PM by DrDebug
    When Poppy was made DCI in 1976, the first thing he did was the privatize as much as possible, because the Church Committee wanted Congressional oversight for the CIA and Poppy wanted to keep things hidden.
    So Election Fraud went to NED ( National Endowment for Democracy ).
    Psyops went to Rendon Group, because they did a beautiful job during the invasion of Panama.
    He started the privatized airplanes with James R. Bath and if you just check the Amnesty International Report on the CIA rendition flight, you'll notice that it is already dozens of companies.

    So that's the point, they want to put their dirtiest parts in NGOs and semi-legitimate companies and this is probably just one of those. And Risk Management means managing the risks they can take, because Brazil is quite a corrupt country so if you manage to pull of the biggest scam in the history of Brazil, it'll mean that you've achieved something...

    And a bonus is that you can operate on a global scale without any government interference, because those national intelligence agencies were a pain in the ass for true global control.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 07:58 PM
    Response to Reply #19
    21. and they profited hugely from 911.nt
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 04:37 PM
    Response to Reply #19
    83. And they can operate for various governments. Kroll working for Russia
    Edited on Mon Jun-26-06 04:46 PM by DrDebug
    Yuri Yasenev, "Rossiyu zhdet oranzhevaya revolytsiya" ("An Orange Revolution is in Store for Russia"), ru.compromat. Cf. Robert I. Friedman, Red Mafiya: How the Russian Mob Has Invaded America (Boston: Little Brown, 2000), 265:
    "Astonishingly, both the (George H.W.) Bush and the Clinton administrations have unwittingly helped foster the Russian mob and the untrammeled corruption of post-Soviet Union Russia. When the CIA was asked in 1992 by Kroll and Associates, working on behalf of the Russian government, to help locate $20 billion that was hidden offshore by the KGB and the mob, the Bush national security team declined to cooperate. The Bush group rationalized, according to Fritz Ermarth, a top CIA policy analyst writing in The National Interest, "that capital flight is capital flight. It doesn't matter who has the money or how it was acquired even if by theft; so long as it is private, it will return to do good things if there was a market."

    So they can work on behalf on other governments as well. There is a lots of interesting info about the Russian drug trade in that document BTW. Lots of Saudi control as well. (Adnan Khashoggi?)
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 07:20 PM
    Response to Reply #18
    20. Marsh is Kroll + Definition Risk Management

    Welcome to the murky world of Kroll Inc - the private CIA
    By Ben Hills
    June 25, 2005

    In May 2004, Julius Kroll received an offer he could not refuse. Marsh & McLennan, the New York insurance broker which claims to be the world's largest, took over Kroll for an eye-popping $US1.9 billion ($2.46 billion), more than $US100 million of which was pocketed by its founder.

    Last October (2004), New York's crusading district attorney, Eliot Spitzer, filed suit against Marsh & McLennan, accusing the company of having, for years, colluded with big insurance companies to "cheat customers in an elaborate charade of price fixing and bid rigging".

    The three insurers he named were the giants American International Group, Zurich America Insurance Company and Ace Ltd. Adding spice to the story was the relationship between them: AIG was headed by the 79-year-old insurance industry legend Maurice "Hank" Greenberg; his son Jeffrey ran Marsh & McLennan, and; another son, Evan, was boss of Ace.

    Within three months, Cherkasky had overseen a clean-out of Marsh & McLennan's board, and the sacking of most of the executives deemed accountable for the corruption. In January, he persuaded Spitzer to drop the civil charges against the company by pledging to pay $US850 million to clients around the world - including Australia - that Marsh & McLennan had defrauded.

    Criminal charges are still pending against 10 former executives of Marsh & McLennan and the insurance companies. In February, Kathryn Winter, the 50-year-old managing director of Marsh Inc, pleaded guilty to fraud in the Manhattan State Superior Court. She faces up to four years' jail, depending on how keenly she co-operates with Spitzer's investigators.


    Risk management is a PR specialism which aims to help corporations strategically plan to avoid negative publicity, as well as to deal with it on an ad-hoc basis. PR agencies specialising in risk management include Regester Larkin and Kroll, Inc..

    You know people who are posting on messageboards on behalf of companies etc... spammers...
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 08:48 PM
    Response to Reply #20
    29. WTC 1 impact was at Marsh!!
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 08:51 PM by DrDebug
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 09:25 PM
    Response to Reply #29
    32. Insurance fraud from an insurance company!
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 09:26 PM by DrDebug
    And they didn't give a fuck about killing 295 of their own employees!

    On October 11, 2001 Marsh established a crisis consulting practice specializing in terrorism, with Ambassador L. Paul Bremer as Chairman. Marsh also announced a partnership with Control Risks Group LLC to provide political risk assessment.

    On October 14, 2004 the New York State Office of Attorney General Eliot Spitzer announced that it had commenced a civil action against Marsh for steering clients to preferred insurers with whom the Company maintained lucrative payoff agreements, and for soliciting rigged bids for insurance contracts from the insurers. The Attorney General announced in a release that two AIG executives pleaded guilty to criminal charges in connection with this illegal course of conduct and stated, "There is simply no responsible argument for a system that rigs bids, stifles competition and cheats customers." Former CEO Jeffrey W. Greenberg resigned several weeks later.

    Found the terrorists! Bremer played a key part. Damn it! How can we proof this!

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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 02:14 AM
    Response to Reply #32
    41. I read somewhere the reason why the insurance co's
    didn't investigate Silverstein 's claim much is because they were going to have so much revenue coming in as a result of the "terrorist attacks". A little off topic but related.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 04:38 AM
    Response to Reply #41
    49. They are very good at hiding and covering up. About white/black
    The first you have to remember is that there are two parts to these entities, a black part and a white part. The white part is significantly larger than the black part and therefore the other department doesn't seem to exist for the outside world.

    Insurance industries are wonderful for things like that, because they are very succesful and make lots of money, it is easy to add an anti-insurance, ie. MIHOP department, to it. It's really through the looking glass. So terrorism and anti-terrorism are combined in the same entity.

    Since the anti-terrorism will grower rapidly when you apply the terrorism part, it means that the anti-part is always many times larger than the real objective and it becomes incredibly difficult to spot if you look at the words directly, so look at it in normal context and then look at it in the anti context.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 02:25 AM
    Response to Reply #32
    42. I've been trying to get people to talk about marsh
    but it gets poo-pooed. Paul Bremer, eh? good find. This is running parallel to the Pentagon and their legal troubles with the missing money. We can figure out their motivation (to get rid of evidence) (plus the big picture war-in iraq). Groves said that the Marsh people in that meeting who were hit were complaining about the funny business (money laundering?) that was going on. These guys are all interconnected, but I'm not sure I see a clear connection for marsh.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 02:41 AM
    Response to Reply #42
    44. Just keep on talking to people
    Edited on Fri Jun-23-06 02:48 AM by DrDebug
    I think that focusing on the Pentagon is less relevant right now. The point with the Pentagon is that it was military so even less is known what happened there, however it is the same strategy.

    I've received assurances that we are definitely on the right track, however this needs time, because I get the feeling that we have taken lots of steps all at once. This was not a gentle evolution of a CT, but more a puzzle where all the pieces suddenly clicked together.

    Marsh is by far the darkest of the subdivisions. The have the subdivision which are capable of doing massive projects like WTC and 7-7 and they really had a feast in Iraq where they could get their dark fantasies roam wild.

    The people in that meeting are very important. What was it about? Because they killed off 20% of their workforce at WTC and some of them were some stupid people who worked for the white part of the company, however most of them were there intentionally. They're a bunch of sociopaths.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 03:30 AM
    Response to Reply #42
    46. One thing which will help if there is a good summary
    Because I'm a researcher, however I'm not a great writer. So I have created this flyer for the basic points, however we need some sort of overview of this stuff. I have decided to go full looney CT with this, because even though al-Cokeda is very nice and very well documented, we have already have the pieces of the puzzle.

    Another thing is that the video needs to be transcribed or whatever. Because it contains all the info and is very detailed and is the result of outstanding research.
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    tyrauber Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:59 PM
    Response to Reply #46
    99. The Script is on the way!
    Soon. I promise. I will let you all know. Then you can give me a hand linking it up with all the research.

    Ryan and I originally wanted to do a QuickTime version with links at the bottom of the screen, like subtitiles. When you click on a link, the movie pauses and opens the browser to the associated research. But by the time we got done with post-production, we just needed to launch it. If people want to help link up the research, I would be open to building the QuickTime file integrating it all.

    Best Wishes,

    Ty Rauber
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 05:02 PM
    Response to Reply #99
    100. Keep it simple and in HTML
    Personally I'm not that fond on QuickTime, Flash etc. It makes it very complex and doesn't allow searching. Plain text is by far the easiest for documentation. For example I don't use QuickTime anymore, because it's crashy software. I prefer Media Player Classic which can play QuickTime without the Apple bugs and update stuff.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 04:53 PM
    Response to Reply #42
    54. The relationship is that they are all intermixed (+Overview)
    Edited on Fri Jun-23-06 04:56 PM by DrDebug
    AIG is the biggest of them and partially owns the others as well
    Marsh has outgrown Kroll, so it swallowed it.
    Kroll was Poppy's privatized CIA, but then without pathetic restrictions.

    The CEO of AIG was destined to become DCI in 1975, however Clinton gave the job to John Deutch and Deutch made a mess, because the Church Committee Investigation into the CIA started and they discovered all kinds of dirty deals. So Poppy was made replacement of Deutch and started to privatize all the dirty parts. Most know about NED and Rendon group, however the real CAI was unknown to most. I guess we now have our candidate.

    It seems like Kroll is the new variant of the CIA. Only better, because hardly anybody knows ;)
    JM/WAVE was the old dirty tricks team. Langley didn't want those people on their place either, so they were moved to Miami. So for the "Terror" you need another company and I am pretty sure that Marsh is the choice, since their offices got blown first and it is better to do the first test inside ;)

    We have the following team:
    - al-Cokeda (drug) = drug dealers which are called terrorist in the OCT.
    - AIG (money) = mainly wash and dry.
    - Marsh (terror) = partially wash and dry as well, however combined with JM/WAVE.
    - Kroll (intelligence) = CIA

    I am looking whether Paul Bremer's department is the new JM/WAVE, so the dirty team. It would have meant that both Goss and Bremer who went to same secret club in college were running the shows during quite a while, so it makes sense as well.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:45 AM
    Response to Reply #54
    125. Demopedia on JM/WAVE
    (I had to look that one up)
    In the meantime, the JM/WAVE-Miami station complex was growing rapidly to become the largest of Langley's many satellites. Its center was at the former Richmond Naval Air Station south of Miami, which had been a base for antisubmarine blimps during World War II. During the years after the failure of the Bay of Pigs, this complex had as many as 3,000 Cuban agents and subagents, with a small army of case officers to direct and look after each one. According to one account, there were at least 55 dummy corporations to provide employment, cover, and commercial disguise for all these operatives. There were detective bureaus, gun stores, real estate brokerages, boat repair shops, and party boats for fishing and other entertainments. There was the clandestine Radio Swan, later renamed Radio Americas. There were fleets of specially modified boats based at Homestead Marina, and at other marinas throughout the Florida Keys. Agents were assigned to the University of Miami and other educational institutions.

    The raison d'tre of the massive capability commanded by Theodore Shackley was now Operation Mongoose, a program for sabotage raids and assassinations to be conducted on Cuban territory, with a special effort to eliminate Fidel Castro personally. In order to run these operations from US territory, flagrant and extensive violation of federal and state laws was the order of the day. Documents regarding the incorporation of businesses were falsified. Income tax returns were faked. FAA regulations were violated by planes taking off for Cuba or for forward bases in the Bahamas and elsewhere. Explosives moved across highways that were full of civilian traffic. The Munitions Act, the Neutrality Act, the customs and immigrations laws were routinely flaunted. Above all, the drug laws were massively violated as the gallant anti-communist fighters filled their planes and boats with illegal narcotics to be smuggled back into the US when they returned from their missions. By 1963, the drug-running activities of the covert operatives were beginning to attract attention. JM/WAVE, in sum, accelerated the slide of south Florida towards the status of drug and murder capital of the United States it achieved during the 1980's, when it became as notorious as Chicago during Prohibition.
    My comments: and enter to Jeb Bush to "manage" it all.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 08:42 AM
    Response to Reply #32
    51. Paul Bremer and Marsh Crisis Consulting
    The Crisis Consulting Practice of Marsh, Inc. (Marsh Crisis Consulting) is "an operating company of Marsh & McLennan Companies (MMC). Marsh's Crisis Consulting Practice provides services to corporations to help them plan for, manage and recover from a full range of crises such as natural disasters, product recalls, workplace violence and terrorism."

    L. Paul Bremer is Chairman and CEO. Bremer has served as Chairman of the Marsh Political Risk Practice from 2000 until present. Bremer was Ambassador-at-Large for Counterterrorism in 1986 and even played with Bio-Terror for a while. In 2003 he was put in charge of Iraq.

    Former head was Craig Roberts Stapleton who is married to President George W. Bush's cousin Dorothy.

    John Copenhaver is the senior vice president of Marsh Crisis Consulting and was Regional Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. He played a key role in the Sept. 11 emergency management team in New York City this past fall.

    Now this is the beauty of keeping things in companies. They needed to expand since they were going to have some fun. So they merge with the top UK team. A lot easier...


    "NEW YORK, October 11, 2001 - Marsh Inc. / Marsh, Inc., (...) Concurrently, Marsh and Control Risks Group LLC / Control Risks Group LLCjointly announced an agreement to provide a full range of political risk assessment services for clients' worldwide operations.

    Their merger partners for Afghanistan and later Iraq:
    Control Risks Group
    Control Risks Group, based out of London, was founded in 1975 as a subsidiary of the Hogg Robinson insurance and travel group, becoming the first company to provide advice to clients involved in kidnap situations. The company began with the hiring of three SAS officers: Maj. David Walker, Arish Turle, and Simon Adams-Dale. Walker would go on to co-found Saladin Security and Keenie Meenie Services of Iran/Contra noteriety. Turle would go on to co-found the Risk Advisory Group after a stint at Kroll, Inc.'s office in London
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 04:09 PM
    Response to Reply #51
    52. Paul Bremer bio
    Lewis Paul Bremer III went to Yale with William Henry Trotter Bush, brother George H.W. Bush, and Porter Goss where all three became member of the Fence Club. In 1966 he started out in Kabul, Afghanistan and from 1968 to 1971 Blantyre, Malawi. (1)

    Bremer was assistant to Henry Kissinger from 1972 to 76. Deputy Chief of Mission in Oslo from 1976-79 and 1981 becomes Special Assistant to Alexander Haig. He played a minor side role in Iran-contra with Oliver North in the Operations Sub-Group at the NSC. (1)

    Ronald Reagan appointed Bremer as Ambassador to the Netherlands in 1983 and Ambassador-at-Large for Counterterrorism in 1986. In 1989 he becomes managing director at Kissinger and Associates and later becomes CEO of Marsh Crisis Consulting. In 1999 he becomes chairman of the National Commission on Terrorism. (1)

    It is unclear where he was on 9/11. Neverthless it is clear that he wasn't in his office and his team was in WTC 2 on the floors at and above where the second aircraft hit, so they suffered no casualties. A couple of days later Marsh makes a press release: "accelerated plans to launch a new consulting unit to capitalize on heightened corporate fears of terrorism" (5)

    Even though his office is a pile of rubble, they are rapidly expanding their operations and not soon after his division merges with Control Risks Group LLC and Versar, a bioterrorism and homeland defense services firm on October 11th and 19th respectively. (2)

    In late 2001, along with Edwin Meese, Bremer co-chaired the Heritage Foundation's Homeland Security Task Force, which created a blueprint for the White House's Department of Homeland Security. President Bush appointed Bremer in May 2003 as the chief executive authority in Iraq. (1)

    In his role as head of the Coalition Provisional Authority, he reported only to the U.S. Secretary of Defense and exercised authority over Iraq's civil administration. He served in this capacity from May 11, 2003 until limited Iraqi sovereignty was restored on June 28, 2004. (1)
    --- --- --- --- ---
    His career gets an enormous lift after serving for Kissinger and Al Haig. Very little is known about Paul Bremer and he doesn't seem to do anything important. He is described as "old boy network ... unqualified and incompetent" (3), or "when I first heard Bremers name mentioned last week, I drew a complete blank" (4)

    All he talks about is terror, attacks, biological warfare etc. and is nicknamed the "Voice of Doom" with pre-9/11 statements like:

    In 1998: "bin Laden and his associates hate America, its values and its culture and proudly declare themselves to be at war with us" (8)

    In 1999: "catastrophic terrorism ... in the event of a catastrophic attack ... tens of thousands of casualties, where the American people are going to be screaming for a response, that a President is going to want to consider using the military in some fashion ... the example we use is Pearl Harbor ... (7)

    In 2000, he warned in congressional testimony of possible terror attacks, such as a radioactive release that "made 10 miles of Chicago's waterfront uninhabitable for 50 years". (6)

    And two days after 9/11 gives the following speech: "This time the terrorists and their supporters must be crushed. But we must avoid a mindless search for an international 'consensus' for our actions.." (5)

    His 1999 NCT report mentions overturning Posse Comitatus Act (4)

    He starts out as just somebody in the Foreign Service, however after being assistent to Herny Kissinger and Al Haig he gets first promotions and then enters the real powerbroker Kissinger. 9/11 means that his ideas plans for homeland security become reality and he goes to Iraq where he made an enormous mess.


    What happened in Iraq during his reign? It'll take a long time before we'll know. It was probably a catastrophic success.

    Is Bremer the new Ted Shackley in JM/WAVE, because they've put Bremer's team in the other tower, just like Langley put their goons in Miami, because they were a bit too sociopathic for the average person... Speculation: Is Paul Bremer capable of organizing 9/11...
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 08:42 PM
    Response to Reply #52
    56. He started the full scale insurgency in Iraq
    Edited on Fri Jun-23-06 08:43 PM by DrDebug
    It's clear. Garner tried to stabilize Iraq, so Paul Bremer was send in to fuel the insurgency and much more. He was replaced by Negroponte, however Bremer was probably the first pick. He met all the qualifications.

    Similar post by Minstrel Boy
    Iraq's "catastrophic success" is intentional

    Unreported: The Zarqawi Invitation
    By Greg Palast
    t r u t h o u t | Report

    Friday 09 June 2006

    (...) Worse, Garner was brokering a truce between Sunnis, Shias and Kurds. They were about to begin what Garner called a "Big Tent" meeting to hammer out the details and set the election date. He figured he had 90 days to get it done before the factions started slitting each other's throats.

    (...) In April 2003, Bremer instituted democracy Bush style: he canceled elections and appointed the entire government himself. Two months later, Bremer ordered a halt to all municipal elections including the crucial vote to Shia seeking to select a mayor in the city of Najaf. The front-runner, moderate Shia Asad Sultan Abu Gilal warned, "If they don't give us freedom, what will we do? We have patience, but not for long." Local Shias formed the "Mahdi Army," and within a year, provoked by Bremer's shutting their paper, attacked and killed 21 U.S. soldiers.

    The insurgency had begun. But Bremer's job was hardly over. There were Sunnis to go after. He issued "Order Number One: De-Ba'athification." In effect, this became "De-Sunni-fication."

    Saddam's generals, mostly Sunnis, who had, we learned, secretly collaborated with the US invasion and now expected their reward found themselves hunted and arrested. Falah Aljibury, an Iraqi-born US resident who helped with the pre-invasion brokering, told me, "U.S. forces imprisoned all those we named as political leaders," who stopped Iraq's army from firing on U.S. troops.

    (...) General Garner, watching the insurgency unfold from the occupation authority's provocations, told me, in his understated manner, "I'm a believer that you don't want to end the day with more enemies than you started with."

    Bremer wanted to end his stay in Iraq with more enemies than he started with. He would have had the courage to organize the whole 9/11 event as well or ... he is evil enough to do it.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 10:20 PM
    Response to Reply #29
    33. which means if they are involved they could have
    given access to those floors , that's another reason I thought something might be up. Except something like Fujibank bank was hit on wtc2, so....I dunno.
    Also, if they wanted to take the people out who were in that meeting Groves talked about...
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 10:29 PM
    Response to Reply #33
    34. Marsh did it
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 10:32 PM by DrDebug
    They planted some bombs or whatever. So WTC1 couldn't even have been a plane. That tape from the French brothers is a fake. Maybe WTC2 was hit by a plane or that is also a fake.

    Isn't that cute. Most people won't even believe that. They played a very good psyops game.

    And very little is known about Kroll and Marsh and if they are the CIA of the 21st century, it means that do a lot better than the old KGB-style CIA. There is hardly any information about them. And even that major Brazilian scam is buried deep, however it sounds like the CIA. Spies and Thugs.

    It wasn't just the CIA though. It's clear that is a joint US-Saudi-European operation. With full government support.

    :toast: I know now enough about 9/11. Sufficiently solved :toast:

    Luckily nobody is going to believe that stuff...

    The al-Cokeda is magnificient though and I love to promote that idea, however the Kroll/Marsh/AGI stuff. That's far too hard to get something even close to evidence...
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 03:54 AM
    Response to Reply #34
    39. Disclaimer
    Edited on Thu Jun-22-06 04:01 AM by DrDebug
    Disclaimer / Copyright
    Applies to all my posts in this thread:
    All text taken from wikipedia is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License ( ). This post contains copyrighted material in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107 ( )

    You are free to copy this post within 'fair use', if you wish to use the copyrighted material from this post for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owners (see links). Full permission for whatever purpose is granted for these compilations.

    None of the contributors or anyone else in any way whatsoever can be held responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libelous information or for your use of the information contained in or linked from these web pages. No guarantees are made, in any way whatsoever, about the validity of the information found here. Any information found on this page can be incomplete, outdated, incorrect and it is upto the user to check the validity of any information found here.

    No consequential damages can be sought for this post, as it is a voluntary developed freely to create various online educational, cultural and informational resources. This information is being given to you gratuitously and there is no agreement or understanding between you and the author.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 02:36 AM
    Response to Reply #34
    43. So Marsh=Kroll=CIA, kind of?
    It just hit me, I mean I've been hearing about all the connections, but it didn't really mean anything. I got a book called 102 minutes about the last 102 minutes of the wtc, it is pretty incredible. The ridiculous planted lies (a guy finds someones clean, white flight itinery in the rubble, I mean it's bwahahaha funny.) But they chronicle most of it , you just can't hide all the true witnesses and their statements and it's very clear that something else happened than what we're lead to believe. I am going to look at Marsh and see what the jobs/positions of those who died there were. I've tried before it's kind of hard. But when I did that for the Pentagon it was "whoa!"
    I also wondered if they got Patrick Fitzgerald out of there so he wouldn't go snooping around, cuz he was transferred right before that or right after.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 02:46 AM
    Response to Reply #43
    45. The CIA got split in lots of companies
    Edited on Fri Jun-23-06 02:47 AM by DrDebug
    Kroll were the control hub of the bunch, however there are more. Marsh has been expanding rapidly and even merged with Kroll. That's the advantage of this system. They can split into seperate entities. They can merge entities. They can create new ones. And nobody needs to ask Congress.

    In the old days there was always a lot of bad press about the CIA connected to organized crime. That's another problem which they don't anymore, because they are now the tops of organized crime. And since each company has a white front-end, it is incredibly hard to penetrate.

    The CIA as such still exists, however I doubt whether it is more than map making, factbook, image analysis etc. Stuff which could have been placed at any agency, so everything which might be embarrassing is probably out of that governmental agency already.
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    Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 04:44 PM
    Response to Reply #29
    53. How many coincidences can 9/11 hold before they turn into evidence?
    This is really stetching the boundries of unconnected coincidences.

    I was amazed with 'Who Shot John O'Neill'....what an incredibly powerful docu-drama, particularly considering the microbudget is was made on. I agree, a lot more focus ought to be on the big picture relationships and less on the micro-issue mechanics.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 05:00 PM
    Response to Reply #53
    55. I think we are fitting the puzzle
    I'm 100% sure that this a better picture. No planes, no missiles, just an amazing show of explosions and state of the art computer generated images and that's it. And it was done by four privatized part of the CIA.

    So if you want to help to think. I've fitted Sibel Edmonds with John O'Neill and it's a perfect match. Hopsicker fits in and this thing is solid and it answers the most important question: Who did this?
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    psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 09:45 AM
    Response to Reply #29
    75. Now, that *is* interesting
    Excellent find!
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 06:15 AM
    Response to Reply #20
    57. How to make a buck off 9/11 + Marsh pre-9/11 inside trading
    Edited on Sat Jun-24-06 06:26 AM by DrDebug

    Marsh was one of the pre-9/11 inside traders

    Marsh & McLennan Cos., the biggest insurance brokerage, which had 1,700 employees working in the World Trade Center. Traders on Sept. 10 exchanged 1,209 contracts on options that profit if company shares fall below $90 through the third week of September. Previously, 13 contracts had traded on an average day. Marsh & McLennan shares fell $2.50 today to $84.50.

    Canadian securities officials said yesterday that the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission has asked North American investment firms to review their records for evidence of unusual trading activity in securities affected by the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. The Investment Dealers Association of Canada told its 190 members that the SEC has identified 38 companies -- including the parent firms of United and American airlines, which lost four aircraft -- whose shares were traded at abnormally high levels in the weeks prior to the attacks, suggesting that buyers and sellers had advance knowledge of planned terrorist acts.

    The SEC equities list named several big companies that were tenants in the collapsed buildings in the heart of New York's financial district: investment firms Morgan Stanley, the towers' biggest occupant; Lehman Bros.; Bank of America; and financial firm Marsh & McLennan.

    November 1, 2004
    The Secret World Of Marsh Mac
    By Marcia Vickers

    After Andrew

    Still, just days after September 11, Greenberg and top MMC execs met to figure out how to profit from the disaster. They formed a subsidiary -- Axis Specialty Ltd. -- to sell insurance to corporate customers at three or four times the rates before September 11...

    For some industry players the move recalled what Greenberg did in 1992 after Hurricane Andrew slammed into South Florida and wiped out some $15 billion worth of property. Jeff, who was working for dad at AIG, sent out an internal memo stating: "This is an opportunity to get price increases now."

    How Paul Bremer profited from 911
    by jail kissinger Tuesday April 06, 2004 at 12:27 PM

    Paul Bremer was hired by an insurance company that had hundreds of employees die in the world trade center, to reap maximum profits for antiterrorist insurance

    Insurance Industry Stands to Benefit from Changes Wrought by Sept. 11

    By Christopher Oster, The Wall Street Journal

    For Marsh & McLennan Cos., the Sept. 11 attacks have meant two very different things.

    But in the days after the attacks, even as the company was sorting out who was safe and who had perished, it quickly became clear that Sept. 11 presented a tremendous business opportunity for Marsh and other strong players in the industry.

    Within days of the twin towers' destruction, Mr. Greenberg and top lieutenants began planning to form a new subsidiary to sell insurance to corporate customers at sharply higher rates than were common before Sept. 11. Marsh also accelerated plans to launch a new consulting unit to capitalize on heightened corporate fears of terrorism. Vice Chairman Charles A. Davis says the company is merely meeting new marketplace demands. "There's a financial reward for doing that," he says.

    Modest Disruption

    From a business perspective, the disaster caused only modest disruption for Marsh, which has 57,000 employees worldwide. On the evening of Sept. 11, Mr. Davis, Marsh's vice chairman and chief of its MMC Capital arm, sent a fax to Mr. Greenberg's home that accounted for the unit's employees - they were all safe - and suggested the formation of a new subsidiary that would underwrite corporate policies.

    On Oct. 11, Marsh announced the formation of a new consulting unit, with Mr. Bremer at its head. Two weeks later, Marsh unveiled a partnership between its new unit and Versar Inc., a counterterrorism-service provider. The partnership will assess chemical and bioterrorism risks for corporate clients

    Part II -- Billions in Pre-911 Insider Trading Profits Leaves a Hot Trail: How Bush Administration Naysayers May Have Let it go Cold

    by Kyle F. Hence

    Below are a few standouts on the SEC list <' *' indicates a WTC tenant; (-x) represents the multiple over average volume>: Airlines: UAL (285x), AMR (60x) Insurance sector: Marsh & McLennan (93x)*, Citigroup (45x), Swiss Re, XL Capital Brokers: Bear Stearns (60x), Morgan Stanley (27x)*, Merrill Lynch (12x)

    Analysts also noted that though the insurance sector was one of the strongest in a depressed stock market, there were huge spikes in put options in Marsh & McLennan and in Citigroup. Marsh & McLennan, the biggest insurance broker, was a World Trade Center tenant with 1,700 employees. It also saw, next to UAL, the highest spike in put options; thus you have a confluence of facts that, in the minds of many experienced traders and experts, amounts to unequivocal evidence of foul play. Clearly traders placed bets based on sure-fire insider prior knowledge. The odds against this happening randomly or coincidentally are astronomical; probably incalculable.

    The Case for Bush Administration Advance Knowledge of 9-11 Attacks
    by Michael C. Ruppert
    COPYRIGHT 2002, Michael C. Ruppert and FTW Publications, all rights reserved. May be reprinted or distributed for non-profit purposes only.]

    The documented pre-Sept. 11 insider trading that occurred before the attacks involved only companies hit hard by the attacks. They include United Airlines, American Airlines, Morgan Stanley, Merrill-Lynch, Axa Reinsurance, Marsh & McLennan, Munich Reinsurance, Swiss Reinsurance, and Citigroup.

    "I saw put-call numbers higher than I've ever seen in 10 years of following the markets, particularly the options markets,' said John Kinnucan, principal of Broadband Research, as quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle,"

    'it's absolutely unprecedented to see cases of insider trading covering the entire world from Japan, to the U.S., to North America, to Europe."

    There were many vultures who knew!
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 02:24 PM
    Response to Reply #57
    79. Deutsche Bank / Mayo Shattuck III's early retirement / CIA / Promis
    Edited on Mon Jun-26-06 02:29 PM by DrDebug

    by Michael C. Ruppert

    < COPYRIGHT, 2001, Michael C. Ruppert and FTW Publications, All Rights Reserved. - May be reprinted or distributed for non-profit purposes only.>

    (...) there is abundant and clear evidence that a number of transactions in financial markets indicated specific (criminal) foreknowledge of the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. In the case of at least one of these trades -- which has left a $2.5 million prize unclaimed -- the firm used to place the "put options" on United Airlines stock was, until 1998, managed by the man who is now in the number three Executive Director position at the Central Intelligence Agency. Until 1997 A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard had been Chairman of the investment bank A.B. Brown. A.B. Brown was acquired by Banker's Trust in 1997. Krongard then became, as part of the merger, Vice Chairman of Banker's Trust-AB Brown, one of 20 major U.S. banks named by Senator Carl Levin this year as being connected to money laundering. Krongard's last position at Banker's Trust (BT) was to oversee "private client relations." In this capacity he had direct hands-on relations with some of the wealthiest people in the world in a kind of specialized banking operation that has been identified by the U.S. Senate and other investigators as being closely connected to the laundering of drug money.

    Krongard joined the CIA in 1998 as counsel to CIA Director George Tenet. He was promoted to CIA Executive Director by President Bush in March of 2001. BT was acquired by Deutsche Bank in 1999. The combined firm is the single largest bank in Europe. And, as we shall see, Deutsche Bank played several key roles in events connected to the September 11 attacks.

    The source familiar with the United trades identified Deutsche Bank Alex Brown, the American investment banking arm of German giant Deutsche Bank, as the investment bank used to purchase at least some of these options." This was the operation managed by Krongard until as recently as 1998.

    As reported in other news stories, Deutsche Bank was also the hub of insider trading activity connected to Munich Re. just before the attacks.

    The strange case of Mayo Shattuck III, head of the A.B. Brown unit of Deutsche bank

    1999. Bankers Trust merged with Deutsche Bank and Shattuck and Shattuck became Chairman of Deutsche Banc Alex. Brown. While there Mayo Shattuck was also CEO of the Americas for the bank's Private Client and Asset Management Group and had numerous responsibilities at the bank, including Global Head of Investment Banking and Global Head of Private Banking.

    Head of the bank resigned under suspicious circumstances
    September 15, 2001. The New York Times reported that Mayo Shattuck III had resigned on September 12, 'effective immediately', from a 3-year $30 million contract as head of the Alex (A.B) Brown unit of Deutsche Bank.

    Bonus point:
    Deutsche Bank is also one of the four banks most used by the bin Laden family.

    But we don't spy. At least not on ourselves.

    Tom Flocco - Edited by Michael C. Ruppert

    In a returned phone call from the Central Intelligence Agency, press spokesman Tom Crispell denied that the CIA was monitoring "real-time," pre-September 11, stock option trading activity within United States borders using such software as the Prosecutor's Management Information System (PROMIS).

    "That would be illegal. We only operate outside the United States," the intelligence official said.

    However, when asked whether the CIA had been using PROMIS beyond American borders to scrutinize world financial markets for national security purposes, Crispell replied, "I have no way of knowing what operations are (being affected by our assets) outside the country."

    Extensive media reporting confirms that investors at Deutsche Bank-Alex Brown and other global financial entities may have profited from prior knowledge of the attacks while purchasing disproportionate pre-attack put option contracts on targeted U.S. airlines and related insurance or investment firms. All of these firms suffered serious losses resulting from the September 11th attacks and their stocks abruptly plummeted.

    < Copyright 2001. From The Wilderness Publications, All Rights Reserved. May be recopied, distributed or posted on the worldwide web for non-profit purposes only.>

    But we did sell Promis to Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden

    Promis and Al Qaeda
    America's spy software scandal
    Michelle Malkin July 9, 2003

    Did Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden have access to a U.S. computer tracking program that enabled them to monitor our intelligence-gathering efforts and financial transactions? If so, who is responsible for allowing the program to fall into their hands? And who else among America's enemies might have access to the tracking system?

    It's an explosive spy software scandal that no one in official Washington wants to investigate.

    This complex, tangled story began two decades ago, when a tiny private company called Inslaw Inc. developed a software package to help U.S. attorneys' offices in large urban districts keep tabs on their criminal prosecutors' caseloads. The program, dubbed the Prosecutor's Management Information System (PROMIS), was effective and popular. It allowed a prosecutor to locate defendants and witnesses, track motions and monitor ongoing investigations. In 1982, Inslaw won a large Justice Department contract to implement the system nationwide.

    In the meantime, Inslaw also developed privately owned enhancements to PROMIS. Despite contractual guarantees of Inslaw's proprietary rights to the enhanced version of PROMIS, the Justice Department essentially commandeered the improved program for its own uses without paying for it. Inslaw was forced into bankruptcy and began an endless fight with the Justice Department to recoup its losses.

    See also:
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:10 AM
    Response to Reply #57
    106. good finds, I hadn't seen those connections made before.nt
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:41 AM
    Response to Reply #57
    114. 9/11 inside traders overview
    Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 08:48 AM by DrDebug
    Interesting companies marked out. Red for prime suspects.

  • American Airlines (involved in the planes)
  • American Express Corp
  • American International Group (involved in Kroll/Marsh/CIA)
  • AMR Corporation
  • Axa SA
  • Bank of America Corp (in WTC1)
  • Bank of New York Corp
  • Bank One Corp
  • Bear Stearns (Alan Greenberg now ACE was former CEO. Always tied up with the Bush family)
  • Boeing (involved in the planes)
  • Cigna Group
  • the Citigroup Inc.
  • CNA Financial
  • Carnival Corp
  • Chubb Group
  • Continental Airlines
  • Dean Witter & Co.
  • Deutsche Bank (CIA's favourite bank, since DB bought Alex Brown. Their building got partially destroyed as well. Biggest inside trader of them all)
  • General Motors
  • Genesis Intermedia (Adnan Khashoggi owner Huffman Aviation)
  • John Hancock Financial Services
  • Hercules Inc
  • L-3 Communications Holdings, Inc.
  • Lehman Brothers Holdings, Inc. (In WTC1 and WTC3. Links up with Blackstone group)
  • Lockheed Martin Corp.
  • Lone Star Technologies
  • LTV Corporation
  • Marsh & McLennan Cos. Inc. (In WTC1 as well as WTC2. Prime suspect in Who Killed John O'Neill.)
  • Martin
  • MetLife
  • Morgan Stanley (In WTC2)
  • Northwest Airlines
  • Progressive Corp.
  • Raytheon (In WTC2. Everybody in the building survived despite being above impact)
  • Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd.
  • Royal & Sun Alliance
  • Southwest Airlines
  • United Airlines (In the planes)
  • US Airways
  • Vornado Reality Trust
  • W.R. Grace
  • XL Capital Ltd. (Part of AIG.) (''Additional entries added and sorted alphabetically'')
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:06 AM
    Response to Reply #20
    59. The Secret World Of Marsh Mac

    November 1, 2004
    The Secret World Of Marsh Mac
    By Marcia Vickers, Business Week

    CEO Jeff Greenberg presides over the arrogant and tight-lipped culture of Marsh & McLennan, where conflicts of interest abound. There's more trouble coming for the world's largest insurance broker.

    When Jeffrey W. Greenberg took the helm of notoriously secretive Marsh & McLennan Cos. (MMC ), a $12 billion financial-services company, on Nov. 18, 1999, analysts were happily buzzing that Greenberg was a gregarious, outgoing executive. The word on Wall Street was that he would raise the profile of Marsh Mac with more public appearances and open communication than his tightlipped predecessor, A.J.C. "Ian" Smith.

    (...) At the center of the storm stands Jeff Greenberg, 53. If you ask almost anyone about him, you'll hear that he is smart as a whip, incredibly knowledgeable about the insurance business, well-spoken, and polished. Much like his father, Maurice R. "Hank" Greenberg, 79, the legendarily hard-charging chairman and CEO of insurer American International Group Inc. (AIG ), he has a history of being opportunistic when it comes to scoring profits for his company. Even now, his defenders insist that he inherited serious problems, particularly in the brokerage and mutual funds businesses, when he moved into the top slot....

    The firm's obsessive focus on secrecy helps keep any misdeeds under wraps, say the sources. "Some companies have a culture based on kickbacks and undisclosed financial arrangements, and their people are forced to remain silent about wrongdoing," says Edward A.H. Siedle, a former Putnam compliance director and SEC official who now heads the Center for Investment Management Investigations in Ocean Ridge, Fla., which looks into pension fraud....

    (...) But now it's MMC's top brass who are squirming. Being in the spotlight is highly uncomfortable for MMC -- long known as a patrician, white-shoe firm with an air so understated and secretive that at least one former exec likened it to working at the CIA. Its ranks have included Ambassador L. Paul Bremer III, former Presidential Envoy to Iraq, who recently ran MMC's crisis-consulting business; Stephen Friedman, President George W. Bush's top economic adviser and former Goldman, Sachs & Co. (GS ) co-chairman, who was an MMC senior principal; Craig Stapleton, the husband of George W. Bush's cousin Dorothy, who was an MMC president; and Lord Lang of Monkton, a former British Member of Parliament who still sits on the board....

    Much more scandals at:





    It's like a combination of Enron and the CIA intermixed. Poppy's ultimate dream, an intelligence bureau which is huge and answers to no one except themselves.
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    Ferry Fey Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 10:32 AM
    Response to Reply #20
    64. Edward P. Felt: BEA Systems and risk management?
    Edited on Sun Jun-25-06 10:34 AM by Ferry Fey
    Edward P. Felt (who early reports said had made the last phone call from Flight 93 while locked in the lavatory) came up last night when I was looking into bios of Flight 93 passengers for the Beamer thread.

    It has been mentioned that Felt was a computer engineer, but most profiles don't note that he was a cryptologist with BEA Systems. This info comes from production notes for the "United 93" movie. Many of these are unsourced, but they are rich in detail and occasional family bitchiness is noted, such as a sneer about an ex-husband.

    I looked into BEA Systems and "risk management." I just can't penetrate the corporate technospeak on their website, maybe Dr. Debug would have better chances of seeing whether this is at all relevant.

    Ken Basnicki, a Canadian, died in WTC 1 while attending a financial services conference at Windows on the World for BEA Systems, for which he was a financial markets director. It was his first trip to NY. He phoned his mother from the 106th floor.

    I'm not drawing any conclusions about either of these people, but since BEA Systems does risk management, I figured the raw information belonged here.

    {Edited to add link for "United 93" movie production notes with family bios.]

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 10:44 AM
    Response to Reply #64
    65. Interesting because Andrew talks about software as well
    It could well be connected. Bea systems only suffered 2 casualties.

    The BEA family has suffered the tragic loss of two of its employees. Ed Felt, one of our first employees, best engineers, and most respected and loved colleagues, died in the crash of United Airlines Flight #93. Ed, a senior architect based in Liberty Corner, New Jersey, was one of the original members of the BEA Tuxedo team, and was instrumental in making that product so successful. In fact, this past August Ed was awarded a U.S. Patent for "Method of Authentication Based on Intersection of Password Sets". He was a mentor and friend to many of us, and an inspiration to all. Ed is survived by his wife and two children.

    Quite a number of companies must have had pre-knowledge about the attack, because they were virtually empty that day, however some didn't like Cantor Fitzgerald Securities who lost 2/3 of their employees. The same applies to Windows on the World, who was also struck hard.

    It seems like BEA systems like the media on the 110th floor must have known, because there was hardly anybody there. I mean there must have been more than 2 people working for BEA systems.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 04:46 PM
    Response to Reply #65
    67. Errata: They never had an office in WTC
    I guess your point is clear. There could be more to it, because the software sounds the same as the other software.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 10:54 AM
    Response to Reply #64
    66. You ought to post more often
    your posts are so good. There are a lot of strange connections in 9-11 that don't seem like just coincidences.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 05:40 PM
    Response to Reply #64
    68. Indira Singh was also Risk software and also 106th floor
    Wonder whether that was Windows on the World as well, because that is the main occupant on that floor...

    Indira Singh Interview, April, 2005, Part One
    Submitted by reprehensor on December 12, 05

    This is a transcript of Part One of Bonnie Faulkners interview with Indira Singh on the Guns and Butter radio program, which aired April 27th, 2005 on KPFA in Berkeley.

    Bonnie Faulkner (BF): Today on Guns and Butter, Indira Singh. Indira Singh has been working on Wall Street since 1975. On 9/11 she was working as a senior consultant for JPMorganChase. She was tasked with developing a next-generation, operational, risk-blueprint. Which would proactively identify exposures, including money laundering, rogue trading, and illicit financing patterns.

    (...) BF: Now, where were you on that very morning of Sept. 11th? Were you at home? Were you at work?

    IS: That morning I was at home, I was late. I was supposed to have attended a risk conference that was being held on the 106th floor of the WTC, at the North Tower, and for some reason, I woke up late and didnt make it there. So when the first plane hit I was actually on my way out in a business suit and I turned back, changed into my EMT clothes, I was a civilian Emergency Medical Technician in New York State, and the 2nd plane hit and I basically went down to the site from that point on.

    BF: So, were your offices actually in the WTC?

    IS: No, they werent, they were on Wall Street itself, and there were offices that I consulted in all around the WTC, but the only reason I would have been there that morning was the risk-technology seminar. Risk Orders basically invited people from all over the world, all over the country. There were close to a hundred delegates already assembled when the first plane hit, nobody made it off the 106th floor.

    BF: And that was a meeting you were scheduled to be in, and you were simply late.

    IS: I was late.


    BF: now, all of this time before 9/11 and subsequently, you were working. Where were you working?

    IS: September 11th I was a senior consultant for JPMorganChase and Risk. I had cycled through several of their Risk areas as an enterprise architect, or an information architect, technology architect which basically means that you take a look at the entire enterprise and come up with a blueprint, make sure that all the systems, not just one system, but all the systems, the blueprints for all the systems that are developed to support the business, are in-line, in tune with the business goals and the business architecture and the business processes and where the business is going.

    So its pretty high-level, we call it the CXO level, or the Chief Information Officer, Chief Technology Officer levels and there are disciplines and methodologies and very esoteric software thats used to manage this. I did that at JPMorganChase and I also worked for a small company in Washington, D.C. that was doing some very innovative work regarding technology interoperability, they were developing some inference engines to think about how to put technology architectures together and I wanted to use that for my risk work, basically.

    we were seeking funding from In-Q-tel which was the CIAs information technology seeking arm, I had been spending pretty much every Friday, Thursday- Friday down in D.C. trying to get that project off the ground, and trying to get it funded.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 06:48 PM
    Response to Reply #68
    69. Indira Singh on PTech (Is this software "connection"?)
    She said they were a CIA front and that they worked out of the basement of the FAA.(!!!) Did they do the software to override NORAD? From an old message, below are some notes I took from Indira Singh speaking and a link where you can listen to her yourself. (I think it is odd that she was late for the meeting, she doesn't seem like the type, I want to add (unrelated to this post)
    My noter: (link below)
    Former Ptech Employees had seen the hijackers and other people on terror lists pass through the ptech halls. Direct connection to 9-11.

    People within the FBI have said "we will make the third reich look like a tea party" 2002

    token raid; so they were no help. She has contacted people on the right and the left who

    are willing to come out. whistle blowers have said 73 was scrambled in time, passengers did

    not bring it down, it was shot down. ptech surveillance and intervention she was using it

    for that but could it have been using it for on 911? could have been. FAA and Ptech looking

    for holes in communication software to take advantage of those holes? ptech had operated

    out of basement of FAA. the had log in access to flight control password to high clearance

    computer info. Ptech also had access at NORAD, FBI, Air Force (you get the picture- (my

    words)) keane from commission had done business with ptech and so had other commission

    people conflict of interests. commission totally flawed.
    you needed inside knowledge to do this ptech had that knowledge.
    Ptech was a CIA front this was validated to her. All over US infrastructure, you don't get

    this without higher level help. American software companies unhappy that ptech they got all

    the good jobs because Saudi owned.(!) Ptech started in 1993. "shut up and go away or you

    will be killed" Jp Morgan, FBI, Ptech told her that. CBS found it was not only as bad as

    what she said but much worse. they were going to run story on anniversary on 911 - it got

    shut down.
    renamed Go Agile still going
    She was fired for her trouble.
    The systems response indicts them (The US). If this was a real terror attack we would be

    seeing pictures of New Yorkers lungs over tv for the next 10 years. We were never shown

    what it was really like.
    Fed government is being looted for the game at play. Global not just America

    Add- Ptech was financed by Saudis one of whom was on US terror list while having carte

    blanche to major US corporations and US gov't agencies (particuliarly those involved in

    first --

    This is a link to a post by rman, with text below from same thread:

    "Who is really behind PTECH is the question. I asked that of many intelligence people who came to my aid as I was being blacklisted, and I was told, "Indira, it is a CIA clandestine op on the level of Iran-Contra."
    And I have reason to believe this because Care International that was mentioned in one of the slides is a renamed version of Alkhifah which was the funding arm for WTC '93. Prior to Alkhifah it was called Maktab Al-Khidamat, which is the funding arm for the Afghani Mujahideen. It was how the monies got to Osama bin Laden through the Pakistani ISI (secret service)."

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 07:05 PM
    Response to Reply #64
    71. BEA was direct competitor of SilverStream
    From an e-mail by Richard Grove:

    Here's what i know, direct competitor of SilverStream back in the day... purchased WebLogic, the competing application server in the market. I met with the ali kutay (founder of Weblogic)'s new company (then, in 2001, called AltoWeb) in Windows on the World on September 7, 2001.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 07:44 PM
    Response to Reply #71
    72. Another coincidence with a competitor Cantor/eSpeed vs Kyoto Mo

    9/11 and the mob
    By Judi McLeod & David Hawkins
    Monday, July 11, 2005

    Toronto-- In the true life stranger than fiction category, Cantor
    Fitzgerald Securities and its subsidiary eSpeed network are one for the books.

    Cantor Fitzgeralds New York office, on the 101st-105th floors of One World Trade Center, lost 685 employees in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacksmore than any other employer. Its e-Speed electronic bond-trading network lost 125 souls.

    Happily for the disciples of "Kyoto Mo" (Canadian Maurice Strong), who argues that global climate change is driven by anthropogenic gases emitted by inhabitants of the Anglosphere, a six-member eSpeed carbon-credit trading team escaped death. Their annual one- day fishing trip had to be cancelled about 8 a.m. on the fateful morning of September 11, due to alleged bad weather over the Atlantic. Can anyone confirm the weather? New York looked pretty sunny.

    Hearing that the Twin Towers had been hit, the six lucky fishers hightailed it to New Jersey, to what Joseph Noviello, executive vice president said of Rochelle Park, N.J., "where we had duplicates of everything that was destroyed at our offices in the world Trade Center."

    Not only did the six execs happen to have a WTC duplicate to turn to, but by napping on the floor, including one who grabbed shuteye by resting his head on an overturned coffee cup, they got an electronic trading operation up and running within two days of the tragic events. ( bcovmon.htm).

    Now get this. The eSpeed new, New Jersey office provided electronic trading services in derivatives and commodities using a software package called TreasuryConnect, which had been bought from an Enron subsidiary and licenced on August 1, 2001 to a subsidiary of Saddams favourite bank, the infamous Global Custodian and UN oil- for-food broker, BNP Paribas.

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:31 PM
    Response to Reply #72
    108. AON corporation in WTC2 lost 170. Also Risk. #2 competitor of Marsh

    Aon Corporation is a leading provider of risk management services, insurance and reinsurance brokerage, human capital and management consulting, and specialty insurance underwriting. It was created in 1982, when the Ryan Insurance Group merged with Combined International Corporation. (Aon is the Gaelic term for "oneness".) Combined International Corporation was founded by W. Clement Stone in the late-1920s, and Ryan Insurance Group was founded by Patrick Ryan in the 1960s.

    The company employs approximately 47,000 professionals in its 500 offices in more than 120 countries. Backed by broad resources, industry knowledge and technical expertise, Aon professionals help a wide range of clients develop effective risk management and workforce productivity solutions. Aon is the world's largest reinsurance broker, largest captive insurance company manager, second largest insurance brokerage (after Marsh & McLennan); and third largest employee benefits consultant.

    Its New York offices were in the 99th and 100th floors of the south tower of the World Trade Center at the time of the 2001 terrorist attack. As a result, Aon lost more than 170 employees.

    See also:
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:47 PM
    Response to Reply #72
    109. Sandler O'Neill and Partners lost 67/180. Big investor in eSpeed
    Sandler O'Neill and Partners is a New York City-based investment banking firm. It was founded by Thomas F. O'Neill and Herman S. Sandler. Located on the 104th floor of Two World Trade Center, it lost 67 of 180 employees in the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack.'Neill_and_Partners

    Sandler O'Neill was a major investor in eSpeed as well.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:01 PM
    Response to Reply #72
    110. CARR Futures. Another Risk firm. Lost all 68 people in WTC
    Carr Futures specializes in meeting the risk management and global brokerage needs of institutional clients, while providing the value-added services that minimize the complications of today's challenging markets. At Carr, our mission is to bring a personal approach to brokerage by delivering individualized service to every client. Carr Futures is a global institutional brokerage firm headquartered in Chicago with offices located in major financial centers around the world.

    Carr Futures was located on 92nd floor of WTC1 just below the impact area. On the morning of September 11th, the office of Carr Futures on the 92nd floor was unusually busy. A total of 68 men and women were on the floor. Carr was two floors below the impact and everyone there had survived it; yet they could not get out.,,776403,00.html
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 03:57 AM
    Response to Reply #110
    147. now that is notable.
    something else to look into.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 04:44 AM
    Response to Reply #110
    148. Carr Parent Co. - Credit agricole Indo Suez
    Crdit Agricole Indosuez, 666 Third Avenue, 14th Floor, New York, NY 10017 (note the 666 address;))

    and they merged with Lyon Credit and became Calyon:
    selections from web site: defense & gaming:
    "Calyon is one of the top lenders to the North American Aerospace & Defense sector. The bank has a long track record with leading companies in Europe, the Americas and Asia. As a full service corporate bank, Calyon provides lending, capital raising, advisory, and risk management services to the full spectrum of aerospace & defense companies, including prime contractors, merchant suppliers, information technology & engineering companies, and MROs. "
    "Calyon has an extended track record of lending to the gaming industry. Active in gaming finance since the 1980's, Calyon today manages a national portfolio of gaming credits through its Los Angeles branch. We have committed significant capital to numerous gaming operators.
    The portfolio is diversified by market and type of operation, in that we lend to land-based, riverboat and dockside operators in: Las Vegas, Nevada; Atlantic City, New Jersey; Alton, Illinois; Biloxi, Mississippi; and elsewhere, including Native American gaming operations. "

    In general, the bank prefers diversified operators with assets in multiple markets and Class III Indian gaming assets. Depending on the type of facility, Calyon arranges revolving credit, term loan, high yield and bond facilities for its clientele. We also advise on equity underwriting when deemed appropriate to specific transactions and provide letters of credit and interest rate swaps to manage related exposures.

    "Fae (fairie) Omnivorous. A Calyon is a vampyric fae of sorts, one o the hundreds of kinds of those types of fae, actually. They're immortal, like any fae, and have the height and body type of human, along with the personality. ... One curse that every Calyon carries, however, is their need for blood ..."
    (I came across this definition of a "calyon" and thought it was funny especially combined with the 666 address)

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 06:09 AM
    Response to Reply #148
    149. Good find. Calyon = Credit Lyonnais. And Credit Lyonnais was Enronian
    Crdit Lyonnais is a French bank. It was, at a point, the largest French bank, and it was state-owned. It has been the subject of various financial scandals, which almost led to its bankruptcy in 1993.

    During the 1990s, the bank was the subject of numerous financial scandals, contributing to a huge debt of around 150 billion French francs (nearly 23 billion Euros). This was caused by directors exaggerating investments and by problems with the bank's subsidiary companies. The bank's motto of the time was "Le pouvoir de dire oui", or "the ability to say 'yes'", and saying 'yes' was indeed something which the bank did rather too often.

    Crdit Lyonnais notably owned the MGM movie studio for a few years, during which time Giancarlo Parretti was the chief of the studio.

    Much of Crdit Lyonnais' Paris headquarters was destroyed in a major fire on May 5, 1996. The fire began in the main trading room of the bank and was one of the worst fires to damage a Paris building in 25 years. The fire burned for over 12 hours and two-thirds of the building was destroyed, along with crucial bank archives and computer data.

    In 2001, Denis Robert and Ernest Backes book, Revelation, showed that Crdit Lyonnais was one of the many banks to detain unpublished accounts in Clearstream, a Luxembourg-based transaction clearing company, which has been accused by the authors of being a huge international money-laundering machine.

    In the United States, Crdit Lyonnais is now known as Calyon, whereas in France, Crdit Agricole and Crdit Lyonnais maintain their separate entitites.

    The standard operating procedure for big scandals: destroy some evidence in a "disaster" and then change the name of the company...
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-04-06 05:51 AM
    Response to Reply #149
    151. I noticed there is a lot of that
    losing information, then changing the name...
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:37 PM
    Response to Reply #72
    112. Euro Brokers 61/65 employees. part of Tradesoft Technologies. Risk
    Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 05:37 PM by DrDebug
    Euro Brokers inter-dealer brokerage businesses generally fall into the brokerage of three broad groups of products: (i) money market products, (ii) derivative products and (iii) securities products. Within these three groups, Euro Brokers specializes in the inter-dealer brokerage of the following:

  • Money market products: cash deposits and other money market instruments
  • Derivative products: interest rate and credit derivatives
  • Securities products: emerging market debt and related products, various other fixed income securities (including convertible bonds, U.S. Treasury securities and federal agency bonds) and U.S. Treasury, federal agency and mortgage-backed repurchase agreements

    Euro Brokers is part of Tradesoft Technologies who offer integrated risk management.

    Euro Brokers lost 61 of 65 employees and was located on 84th floor of WTC2, right in the middle of the impact area.

    Four employees including the vice president took the stairs downwards even though they were advised not to go down any further because the floors were on fire. They say that they survived by ignoring advice.

    Every company which I find who lost a lot or most of their employees are either Risk or related to Cantor Fitzgerald. THe only others are security guards, fire men, police men and those 295 at that Marsh meeting
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:50 AM
    Response to Reply #72
    113. Losers and survivors
    There are some strange losers and survivors in WTC. It makes sense that the lower floors survived, but the top floors have some anomalies as well.

  • Windows on the World (Risk meeting and only a stupid restaurant)
  • Hotel and Restaurant Employees International (stupid restaurant)
  • Cantor Fitzgerald Securities + eSpeed (risk competitor)
  • Alliance Consulting Group (unknown yet)
  • CARR Futures (risk management)
  • Sandler O'Neill and Partners (investor in eSpeed)
  • AON Corporation (risk management)
  • Keefe, Bruyette and Woods, Inc. (unknown)
  • Euro Brokers (risk competitor. the four survivors even got the advice not to go down)

  • American Bureau of Shipping
  • Dun & Bradstreet (their buddy in risk)
  • Banco LatinoAmericano de Exportaciones Sud America (unk.)
  • Lehman Brothers (inside trading)
  • Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (84/3000, however 37 were stupid cops so that leaves 47 including the executive director Neil D. Levin)
  • ZimAmerican Israeli Shipping Company (decided to move out one week earlier)
  • Bank of America (inside trading)
  • Deutsche Bank (inside trading)
  • Raytheon Company (only lost four on the "planes")
  • Fuji Bank (doesn't make sense, since they were right on the impact area)
  • Morgan Stanley (inside trading)
  • Seabury and Smith (part of Marsh)
  • Kyoto Mo (competitor of Cantor Fitzgerald)
  • Fireman's Fund Insurance Company (used to be owned by Willy Hilliard, owner of Huffman Aviation)

    Marsh did loose 295 people (=20%). So why were they so bloody in their own company. They did a lot of inside trading, so they knew...
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 12:48 PM
    Response to Reply #113
    115. Silverstream Fraud Class Action June 20, 2000

    According to a Press Release dated June 20, 2001, a securities fraud class action was filed against Silverstream Software, Inc. The lawsuit asserts claims under Sections 11, 12 and 15 of the Securities Act of 1933 and Sections 10(b) and 20(a) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 and Rule 10b-5 promulgated by the SEC thereunder and seeks to recover damages. Any member of the class may move the Court to be named lead plaintiff. If you wish to serve as lead plaintiff, you must move the Court no later than August 20, 2001.

    The complaint alleges that Silverstream Software, Inc., David R. Skok, its Chairman, David A. Litwack, its President and CEO, and Craig A. Dynes, its CFO, violated the federal securities laws by issuing and selling Silverstream Software common stock pursuant to the IPO and secondary offering without disclosing to investors that at least two of the lead underwriters in the IPO and secondary offering had solicited and received excessive and undisclosed commissions from certain investors.

    In exchange for the excessive commissions, the complaint alleges, lead underwriters Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co., Inc. and FleetBoston Robertson Stephens, Inc. allocated Silverstream shares to customers at the IPO price of $16.00 per share. To receive the allocations (i.e., the ability to purchase shares) at $16.00, the defendant lead underwriters' brokerage customers had to agree to purchase additional shares in the aftermarket at progressively higher prices. The requirement that customers make additional purchases at progressively higher prices as the price of Silverstream stock rocketed upward (a practice known on Wall Street as laddering) was intended to (and did) drive Silverstream's share price up to artificially high levels.

    This artificial price inflation, the complaint alleges, enabled both the lead underwriters and their customers to reap enormous profits by buying Silverstream stock at the $16.00 IPO price and then selling it later for a profit at inflated aftermarket prices, which rose as high as $32.50 during its first day of trading. The complaint further alleges that Silverstream was able to price the secondary offering of Silverstream stock at an artificially high $114.00 per share due to the continued effects of the foregoing violations. Rather than allowing their customers to keep their profits from the IPO, the complaint alleges, the defendant lead underwriters required their customers to kick back some of their profits in the form of secret commissions.

    These secret commission payments were sometimes calculated after the fact based on how much profit each investor had made from his or her IPO stock allocation. The complaint further alleges that defendants violated the Securities Act of 1933 because the Prospectuses distributed to investors and the Registration Statements filed with the SEC in order to gain regulatory approval for the Silverstream offerings contained material misstatements regarding the commissions that the underwriters would derive from the IPO and secondary offering and failed to disclose the additional commissions and laddering scheme discussed above.
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    Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:41 PM
    Response to Reply #113
    116. Deleted message
    Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
    BuddyYoung Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:37 PM
    Response to Reply #116
    117. Thanks. Very interesting. nt
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:10 PM
    Response to Reply #113
    118. Global Crossing was there as well
    Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 05:11 PM by DrDebug
    Global Crossing Limited is a major telecommunications company that provides computer networking services worldwide. The company is legally domiciled in Bermuda. (1)

    It rode the dot-com boom of the 1990s to incredibly high market values, only to go bankrupt a few years later. Its stock price hit a high of US $64 per share, and would eventually plunge to below $1. (1)

    In January 2002, the company declared chapter 11 bankruptcy, making it the fourth largest insolvency in United States history. The restructuring of Global Crossing was being handled by the Blackstone Group (you know from the WTC/Silverstein deal)

    March 25, 2003
    By Jeremy Pelofsky

    WASHINGTON, March 25 (Reuters) - A senior U.S. Democrat has called for an investigation of Richard Perle, an architect of the war in Iraq, for possible conflicts of interest in his roles as corporate adviser and Pentagon consultant.

    Rep. John Conyers, the top Democrat on the House of Representatives Judiciary Committee, asked the Pentagon's inspector general to probe Perle's work as a paid adviser to bankrupt telecommunications company Global Crossing Ltd. and his guidance on investment opportunities resulting from the Iraq conflict.

    Much much more stuff at: (I'm starting to love that weird site. It has all the goodies...)

    It is very unclear how many worked at WTC, but I think that lots of things from that company got shreded as well that day...

    There are many companies with no information in those towers. I wonder how many were virtual companies...
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:05 PM
    Response to Reply #113
    119. Errata: Fireman's Fund Insurance Company (owned by Myron du Bain)
    Fireman's Fund Insurance Company is a Novato based insurance company owned by Allianz AG (Germany). Founded June 18th 1863 (1)

    Myron Du Bain, who worked alongside late ex-CIA director John McCone, used to be chairman of the Fireman's Fund Insurance Company in 1981 when the company announced plans to acquire Employers Health, an insurance company co-founded by Willy Hilliard, one of the owners of Huffman Aviation. (2)

    All 190 employees on the 48th floor of WTC2 survived 9/11.


    More about the Myron Du Bain - Willy Hilliard connection:
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 04:07 AM
    Response to Reply #113
    128. Martin Progressive. "Extremely pleased"
    Martin Progressive L.L.C. is a provider of information technology consulting services, including systems engineering, relocation services, and services to the hedge fund industry. (1)

    The main office is located in London. They used to have 80 - CNN said 200 - employees on WTC1 on 9/11. Martin Progressive has been named as one of the 9/11 inside traders by the SEC (2) and had their operations up and running two days later.

    Extremely pleased
    One of the happier stories to come out of the horror has been that of Martin Progressive, an IT strategy and consulting firm that had more than 200 employees based in offices on the 77th floor of the World Trade Center's north tower.

    "We are extremely pleased," reads a home-page message from the company's operating committee, "to announce that as of today, fully 100 percent of our staff has been accounted for. This is the best news we could have hoped for, given the tragic circumstances."

    Initially, Martin Progressive used its home-page space to let people know that its operations were being temporarily run from its Chicago offices. Then, on Friday, the news was posted that temporary space has been located now in New York on 11th Street.

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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 04:25 AM
    Response to Reply #72
    129. Hmm, reminds me of how fast DowJones
    got things running,I mean, please!
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:39 AM
    Response to Reply #17
    22. Whistleblower Andrew Grove blames Kroll for 9/11
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 11:52 AM by DrDebug

    The Meria Heller Show

    This man, Richard Andrew Grove, a whistleblower who worked for the big boys and money people behind 9/11 has come out with information to set the 9/11 movement on fire.


    To offer a little contextual History, AIG was founded by OSS operative Cornelius V. Starr (2 Rs), the uncle of Clintons friend Kenneth Starr. AIG was created for and is currently a front which provides cover for intelligence community illicit operations. In 2001, AIG owned a Risk Management firm called Kroll Associates.

    Kroll played a major role in the events of September 11th, and continues to this day to enable events like the 7-7 and 7-21 bombings in the London Tube system they then go on TV and provide expert counterterrorism testimony to the goldfish at home tuned into FoxNews and the like.

    While Kroll provided the necessary operational capability, in part, for what was perpetrated; AIG and Marsh were focused on participating in both short and long-term money schemes. Krolls Jerome Hauer (a long time personal friend of ex-FBI Counterterrorism & Osama bin Laden expert John ONeill) hired ONeill as head of security for the WTC.

    Kroll had also managed the bunker in WTC 7 for Guiliani, and Krolls board of directors shared one peculiar member in common with AIG; that being Frank G. Wisner Jr., son of OSS co-Founder Frank Wisner. I wont go into the history of the OSS, Reinhard Gehlen, or the Council on Foreign Relations / Dulles affiliation with its creation, but I can recommend an excellent book, wherein its relevance is comprehensively documented; the title youre looking for is: The Old Boys: The American Elite and the Origins of the CIA by Burton Hersh (and printed in 1992).


    On July 8, 2004, Kroll Associates was sold to Marsh and McLennan. I would mention at this point that Kroll Associates also provides protection, I mean, Kidnap and Ransom coverage for major corporations and their executives- and employs ex- and-current Intelligence Operatives, as well as ex-Scotland Yard, and freelance mercenaries. Kroll is at the heart of 9-11, though its but a sub-aspect of many other superimposed actions and operative details that took place on that day.

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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 07:38 PM
    Response to Reply #22
    26. Their benefit would be the revenues from
    all the anti terrorism & "security" jobs that would follow, not to mention paid mercenaries to Iraq. Also it sounds like there were some people Marsh wanted to "off". It's just not cohesive enough. I think this angle has been overlooked, though.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 08:00 PM
    Response to Reply #26
    27. It has been overlooked, I can't see exactly how they did it
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 08:05 PM by DrDebug
    Pure speculation:

    From their line of business it appears that they are laundering drugs money and maybe were involved in covering up the inside trading which was going on during 9/11 and that is the Andrew Grove story since he was responsible for creating the software.

    The software was mainly sold to Marsh & McLennan, AIG, Merrill Lynch, Deutsche Bank, Bankers Trust, Alex Brown, Morgan Stanley. It is likely that those companies who are the heart of the banking and insurance industry received a preliminary warning explaining why they were reasonable empty at morning of September 11. It is feasable that some people in those companies did a lot of insider trading to compensate for WTC. Also many of them are tied in with the Intelligence Community (I don't think that work for is the correct term, it's more of a blur), so the lines of communication for those companies is very short.

    Marsh & McLennan, AIG and Kroll could have been benefiting from the market manipulation. Marsh and Kroll certainly helped cover up the inside trading and might have benefited itself. Of course the protection racket and anti-terrorism stuff has been very good to them as well.

    It still leaves the problem that there is nothing to indicate direct involvement with the attacks on the WTC and they do not seem to be the most likely candidates either. Money laundering is their game. They did let the security down and the appropriate times, however it's not the place where it was coordinated IMO.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 08:09 PM
    Response to Reply #26
    28. Let's throw in Sybel Edmonds again
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 09:07 PM by DrDebug
    Because she knows what happened:

    Intelligence is also gathered by certain semi-legitimate organizations - to be used for their activities. It really does not boil down to countries anymore.... When you have activities involving a lot of money, you have people from different nations involved.... It can be categorized under organized crime, but in a very large scale....

    There are certain points..., where you have your drug related activities combined with money laundering and information laundering, converging with your terrorist activities

    Flight schools: Drugs (main operators Saudis)
    AIG: Money laundering
    Kroll: Information laundering

    Edit because of See reply #29. The plane impacted at Marsh. That was no coincidence! This some major psyops.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 06:17 AM
    Response to Reply #22
    61. Stewart International Airport
    Edited on Sun Jun-25-06 06:24 AM by DrDebug
    Since the story upto runs in sync with the story of Andrew Grove, let's take an interesting part:

    -1- Stewart AFB, in New Windsor, New York is used as a hub for importation of illicit drugs, using our Military Assets as cover.

    -2- Coincidently, Stewart happens to be the simultaneous crossing point of 2 hijacked airliners on 9-11, and also the approximate location of where the transponders were switched.

    -3- Stewart AFB was previously known as the base where the Iran Hostages, were returned after 444 days and the October Surprise, this predated but is not unrelated to the Iran Contra fraud...Stewart AFB is the only airport of its kind, in that it was privatized for secret purposes.

    -4- This privatization was executed in part by George Pataki, and Eliot Spitzer. In 1999 Pataki signed a 99-year lease (ala Silverstein), and in 2000 Spitzer privatized it for 'special'? use. Spitzer, of course, is the attorney general of New York, a supposed real life crime fighter.

    -5- I wish that were true, but Spitzer allegedly investigates the post 9-11 AIG, Marsh Insurance Scheme; wherein hundreds of billions of dollars were skimmed from fattened insurance quotes.. Spitzer's investigation finds AIG guilty, yet only penalized them $ 1 billion- less than 1% of what they stole, and of that $ 1 billion, Marsh & McLennan had to pay $800,000,000 of it.

    1: Drugs distribution hub
    I can't find any confirmation about -1- and that's the part where al-Cokeda could play a role.

    2: Crossingpoint 9/11 flight were transponders are turned off.

    This analysis of the flight paths suggests that it was necessary for AA 11 and UA 175 to both pass over Stewart AFB in New Windsor, NY at the same time. The reason why this was necessary is unclear. This occurred at approximately 8:36am, the same time that AA 77 (the flight that hit the pentagon), deviated from its flight path before it was officially hijacked.

    The fact that AA 11 and UA 175 crossed paths at the same time is too improbable to be regarded as a coincidence, implying that this was necessary for the attack. Further research needs to be done on this topic to determine what happened to AA 11 and UA 175 over Stewart AFB in New Windsor, N.Y. at 8:36am when AA 11 began a rapid decent. It is also very peculiar that at the same time that AA 11 and UA 175 crossed paths, AA 77 deviated from its flight path before it was hijacked. What happened at 8:36am on 9/11/01?

    3: Used in October Surprise

    The hostages did come home, 444 days later. They landed in the U.S. at Stewart Airport in Newburgh, N.Y. and it looked like five million people came out to greet them, wave flags, show yellow ribbons, give the thumbs up and flip the bird to unflattering drawings of the Ayatollah. The crisis was over. But in many other ways, it has never ended.

    Because the many similarities between 9/11 and Iran-Contra it is significant that the same airport was used. Also because Iran-Contra was Poppy/Connally's team who operated independent of the President Carter.

    4: Stewart Airport privatization
    "Governor George E. Pataki today announced that the final application for the privatization of Stewart Airport has been submitted to the Federal Aviation"

    This is important because it would have meant that like AIG/Kroll/Marsh, this airport could operate independent of the government.

    5: Spitzer's AIG/Marsh investigation
    AIG, Marsh execs plead guilty in Spitzer probe - Feb. 15, 2005

    So the open question is whether Stewart has been used in the narcotics distribution, since it is privatized it could be part of their operational network.
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    Ferry Fey Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 06:54 PM
    Response to Reply #61
    70. Stewart Airport: recently run with binoculars and TARDIS
    Stewart Airport has been in the news recently.

    They have a new control tower, but the FAA were not letting them move their old Tardis (Terminal Automated Radar Display and Information System -- sorry, Dr. Who fans!) into the new building. There was a glitch in the new radar system, so they'd hoped the old one could be used until the new one was fixed. But nooooo... the FAA were making them use binoculars instead!

    A local Representative met with the FAA chief. "'The FAA folded like a cheap suit,' said Barrett Byrnes, who leads the New York chapter of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association."

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:55 PM
    Response to Reply #22
    120. Buttonwood International Group. The company that doesn't exist
    Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 06:56 PM by DrDebug
    Buttonwood International Group calls itself the Global Custodian who claim to have nearly $50-trillion assets in custody.

    According to their own website, Buttonwood offers password-enabled access to Global Custodiansand only to Global Custodians. Buttonwoods impressive A-List includes: (1)
    * ABN AMRO Mellon Global Securities Service
    * The Bank of New York
    * Brown Brothers Harriman & Co.
    * BNP Paribas ("Saddam Husseins favourite bank")
    * Citibank, N.A.
    * Deutsche Bank
    * Investors Bank & Trust
    * J.P. Morgan
    * Mellon Trust
    * The Northern Trust Company
    * Royal Trust
    * State Street Corporation

    Bold means: 9/11 inside traders
    Italic means: offices in WTC

    It seems that they have the biggest banks in the world as their customers.

    The strange part is that this company says that it is located at One World Trade Center, Suite 7967 on August 20, 2001 (1), however on their next update on December 21, 2001 it is listed at 14 Wall Street, 20th Floor (2).

    Note the WTC photo icon below goes to a page dated 9/11 with these sad and scary words, "September 11, 2001: Buttonwood Internationals office support staff was located on the 79th floor of One World Trade Center. As of today, we are unable to confirm that all personnel are safely evacuated." But the main page of December 2001 fails to state how many, or if any, Buttonwood employees died in World Trade Center 1. Curiously, Buttonwood a self-touted management consultant for Global Custodians seems to have ignored the catastrophic events of 9/11 and its impact on its $40 (now $50) trillion clients in the "global securities industry". (3)

    They are not listed on any list of tenants and start to sound like a vapor or virtual company. And then there is the testimony of Richard Grove:
    Marsh was laundering money through Buttonwood International Group (4)


    Is this an empty front company?
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 12:19 AM
    Response to Reply #120
    140. bizarre
    why do you think it is weird that they changed addresses? Don't you think that is just their post 9-11 address?
    I got a couple of books on 9-11 at the library , I'll see if they say anything. Most of what I find is propaganda, though.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 12:23 AM
    Response to Reply #140
    141. They probably never existed
    If it was a laundry front then it was an empty address with nothing behind it.

    I'm summarizing these threads, because it's getting really big and I think it's time for part II (or part III ...)
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 02:47 PM
    Response to Reply #120
    150. 1 WTC 7967 - All companies at that address don't exist

    Suite 7967 - Mystery Solved!

    The solution arrives thanks to pure UnBlinkingness by Vincent Perricelli, who points to the ALLIANCE Business Centers NETWORK Corporate Identity Program:

    When your company needs to establish a presence in an area without the cost of leasing an office space, ALLIANCE locations offer a variety of plans to suit your needs which include:

    Use the impressive ALLIANCE Business Centers NETWORK location address for your stationary and deliveries.

    Have personalized telephone calls answered in your company name along with the reliability of a dedicated, personalized voice mailbox - 24 hours a day - without the expense and hassle of phone line installations.

    Of course, Alliance Business Centers Network office was One World Trade Center, Suite 7967. (1)


    Guess what. There are hunderds of companies at 14 Wall Street, 20th floor as well

    Regus Virtual Offices:

    14 Wall Street
    20th Floor
    New York City, New York 10005
    United States
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 03:20 PM
    Response to Reply #17
    23. 9/11: The BCCI Connection ( Kroll mentioned )
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 03:20 PM by DrDebug

    9/11: The BCCI Connection
    by Chaim Kupferberg
    Excerpted from: Truth, Lies, and The Legend of 9/11 by Chaim Kupferberg

    The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at grants permission to post the above mentioned article in its entirety, or any portions thereof, so long as the URL and source are indicated, a copyright note is displayed, and, where excerpts are posted, the excerpt(s) is (are) indicated as such, and a link is provided to the full body of the text at from which the excerpt(s) was taken. For publication of this article in print or other forms contact: . 5 November 2003

    The URL of this article is:

    It is, in fact, security firms like Kroll Associates, Burns Security, Teg, Wackenhut, and their ilk that should garner our interest at least as much as the web of conservative think tanks that have welded in place the parameters of "mainstream" debate - for it is through these very firms that the former stars of law enforcement have gone through the revolving door into the lucrative private sector. It is a world where former military types mix with various operatives of the CIA, FBI, DEA and any number of alphabet soup agencies charged with the security of our nation.

    Moreover, the top people in the private security sector have the authority, prestige, and, most importantly, the skill to carry out - successfully and below the radar - the kinds of domestic operations that have been pegged as the province of shaggy al-Qaida operatives. Who, after all, could best ensure that 19 terrorists would be able to make it aboard four separate flights without any real danger of detection? And who, after all, would be best placed to ensure a complete and successful implosion of not just the two Twin Towers, but the neighboring building - 7 World Trade Center - which housed a bio-warfare "command and control bunker" under the direction of Jerry Hauer?

    With that in mind, we get a bit closer to the "how" of 9/11 - an important consideration in analyzing the Legend of 9/11. A good part of the early work on that legend had been accomplished through the offices of Michael Cherkasky, the managing director of Kroll Associates - in his capacity as a prosecutor working in the New York office of Robert Morgenthau. Cherkasky had worked on the case arising out of the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, which had established Ramzi Yousef as the terrorist mastermind behind the attack. Cherkasky had also worked on the John Gotti and BCCI criminal cases, two cases that would not, at first glance, seem to be related, much less to the events of September 11.

    The story goes that BCCI was founded by Pakistani financier Aga Hassan Abedi. In truth, it was mostly a British intelligence operation using Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates as fronts, while C.I.A. elements allied with George H. W. Bush used the banking network to conduct a number of under-the-table operations throughout the '80's. Before it went under, BCCI served as the cardiovascular system for a global criminal milieu, its laundered arteries servicing the needs of various drug lords, arms dealers, fraudsters, dictators, corrupt politicians, terrorists, and intelligence agencies seeking loose cash for their extra-legal activities.

    The real scandal of BCCI, however, was not simply that it was a worldwide Ponzi scheme defrauding its investors of billions - for that is the "limited", official version - but that, in the context of 9/11, it provides a glaring spotlight on the very networks most intimately connected with the corruption. BCCI, the brainchild of British intelligence, was the ideal tool by which a supra-national network of compromised politicians and corrupt officials would "play ball", fattened up with a stream of capital furnished through the fruits of drugs, arms, and terrorism.

    As Oliver North had pioneered the use of the counter-terrorism office in dealing with narco-terrorists like Monzer al-Kassar (connected to the Pan Am explosion over Lockerbie), would it be such a stretch to posit that the counter-terror apparatus - this time under Richard Clarke and John O'Neill - was once again being employed to "work" the corrupt networks wrought by BCCI? Can it be a mere coincidence that the arteries of the bin Laden strain of terrorism were fed not by Iran or Syria - the "traditional" sponsors of the more low-key types of terrorism in the '80's - but rather by those very countries that have long served as agents and proxies of their American-Anglo cohorts in crime: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and the United Arab Emirates (i.e. the principal countries fronting for BCCI)? Could it be that the mutually corrupt global relationships wrought by BCCI persist to this day, with a bevy of compromised political officials standing ready to make their contribution to the New World Order - and perhaps scam some extra pocket change on the side?

    Chaim Kupferberg is a freelance researcher, writer and frequent CRG contributor. + Copyright Chaim Kupferberg 2003.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 09:08 PM
    Response to Reply #23
    30. Is he raising the possibility that John O'Neill & Richard
    Clarke were part of the "al coke/ciada" operation? Richard Clarke is very "incompetence theory", so I can see that, but O'Neill would have steered clear of the world trade center that morning, it seems to me, unless he's not really dead, or unless he thought he'd be able to get out in time, but someone killed him since he was "the man who knew too much" after all.
    I suspect that Clarke tries to fool people by going overboard on the incompetence hyperbole,which makes you think "he's on out side" since he's talking about how incompetent BushCO was re: 9-11 "they ignored all those warnings!!" but he's really working FOR them not AGAINST them.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 09:20 PM
    Response to Reply #30
    31. Clarke is BFEE as well. Just not as bad as the rest, but still...
    John wasn't. He did use the codewords like terrorists instead of drugdealers etc. however it was clear that John would have investigated. I put John O'Neill with the good guys.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 10:41 PM
    Response to Reply #31
    35. Good.
    I hate watching the heroes fall one by one. He's my idol, personal peccadilloes and all.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 10:52 PM
    Response to Reply #35
    36. To John
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 10:58 PM by DrDebug

    In a way he solved 9/11 after all. This video in his honor gave the necessary clues and a week of investigation solved al-Cokeda for me as well.

    Edit:Image didn't show
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 06:50 PM
    Response to Reply #17
    25. WTC security / WTC hard disks and various
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 07:32 PM by DrDebug
    Marvin Bush was a director of Securacom a.k.a. Stratesec from 1993-2000 who provided electronic security for the World Trade Center and Dulles International Airport on September 11, 2001. (2)

    On behalf of Jerome Hauer (former OEM), Kroll Associates hired ex-FBI anti-terror chief John O'Neill. (1)

    The OEM was responsible for the construction of the Bunker in WTC 7. (1)

    The following people were both in Securacom and Kuwait-American Corporation:
    1. Wirt D. Walker III
    2. Marvin Bush
    3. Mishal Yousef Saud Al Sabah, son of one Emir and son-in-law of another Emir of Kuwait.

    Kroll Associates helped hunt down assets stolen by Iraq's Saddam Hussein in 1999 (8)

    Ontrack is in charge of securit of the US Presidents since 1945. Ontrack has Kroll as one of the investors. Sinds June 2002 Kroll Inc. acquired Ontrack and formed a new wholly-owned subsidiary of Kroll named Kroll Ontrack. (5)

    Michael Cherkasky (head Kroll):
    "I believe that we had sufficient, specific information to say we were at enormous risk during the year 2000, 2001 of having a very, very serious incident here." (6)

    Maurice Greenberg, once floated as a possible CIA Director in 1995, 1995, is the CEO of AIG insurance. Connected to Kroll and Frank G. Wisner, Jr. (5)

    AIG's long connection to CIA drug trafficking and covert operations was mentioned in a two-part series of, that was interrupted just prior to the attacks of September 11. (7)

    First part:
    Second part:

    Since 1997, Frank G. Wisner, Jr., has been a board member of Kroll , and is currently Greenberg's Deputy Chairman for External Affairs. Wisner's father was a founder of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, who killed himself over the scandal from his being duped by British-Soviet masterspy Kim Philby. Frank Wisner, Jr., is a director of the George Bush-linked energy giant Enron (a client for whom AIG negotiated payments from Peru over nationalization of Enron operations). (5)

    There are reports of a sharp rise in credit card transactions at the WTC on 9/11. Unusually large sums of money were rushed through the computers.

    Convar tried to recover the data. The Convar data salvage found more than $100 million on insider transactions took place in the hours and minutes before the twin towers collapsed. The reconstructed data was given by Convar to the FBI. And in June 2002 Ontrack/Convar was acquired by Kroll Inc. (Kroll O'Gara Eisenhardt). Nothing has ever been heard of the recovered data or the investigation. (9)

    The transaction were made with Silverstream software for companies inside the WTC. Those companies were unusually vacant on the morning of September 11. Marsh acquires Silverstream and later Kroll acquires Marsh. (10)

    And there is a report from the French Intelligence that Kroll was doing industrial espionage on behalf of the CIA (11)

    1. via
    3. via
    6. Warning Signs., NBC News, 23 Sept 2001

    Nevertheless, I can't find direct any direct lines. There is quite a lot of evidence that there was inside trading on 9/11 and that Kroll helped cover it up and possible even participated.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:09 PM
    Response to Reply #25
    37. I don't get why the insider trading can't be tracked
    I mean you have to pay with credit card, you can't just anonymously buy shares or put options, you have to have an account. So it's outrageous that this has never been solved, unless it's just rumor or was discovered on some data base or something. That one really baffles me.

    So Silverstream software was used in the inside transactions? I don't remember that one, that's big.
    Software is another weird thing that comes up: Silverstream, PTech, Promis(Ruppert) I don't know where it fits in with everything, maybe as a cover for criminal activity? As Groves said because the software industry is relatively new, it is unregulated,which gives them the opportunity to operate in ways which other companies can't.

    You think Sibel Edmonds knows what happened?
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:23 PM
    Response to Reply #37
    38. They had to stop the investigation so they bought Convar
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 11:24 PM by DrDebug
    It's the easiest way. The bought the company who had the harddisks and the analysis and there was probably pressure on the FBI not to investigate the data. Case closed.

    I don't know where the software fits in. I thought that it was handled with that Silverstream stuff at least in WTC, however I can be wrong as well.

    Sibel Edmonds knows exactly what happened. It was about control of the heroin from Afghanistan first and foremost. Turkey/Istanbul is the place where all the smuggling routes come together before being shipped off in all directions. So the key drug dealers are in Turkey/Istanbul and Sibel was covering that area, so she probably received inside knowledge about 9/11 from the major kingpins in Turkey. That is why she has to talk in riddles, however her riddle was correct. I knew it!
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    BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:08 PM
    Response to Reply #37
    121. requires an option account.. outrageous is putting it mildly

    A margin account is a type of brokerage account that allows you to take out loans against securities you own (sometimes called a "Type 2" account). Because the brokerage house is essentially granting you credit by giving you a margin account, you must pass their screening procedure to get one. Even if you don't plan to buy on margin, note that all short sales ("Type 5") have to occur in a margin account. Note that if you have a margin account, you will also have a cash account.

    An option account is a type of brokerage account that allows you to trade stock options (i.e., puts and calls). To open this type of account, your broker will require you to sign a statement that you understand and acknowledge the risks associated with derivative instruments. This is actually for the broker's protection and came into place after brokers were successfully sued by clients who made large losses in options and then claimed they were unaware of the risks. It's my understanding that otherwise an option account is identical to a margin account.


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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 03:43 AM
    Response to Reply #121
    127. Where is the accountability?
    would Elliot Spitzer be the one to investigate this? I've been wondering if he is "one of the boys", kind of sounds like he is. It seems like the victims families would be really upset by this one, those who are "aware" of "incongruities".
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    BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:43 PM
    Response to Reply #127
    135. hard to say..
    which side spitzer is on

    but comments like this from CFR editorials seem to imply he's looking into something they would rather he not; which is good..
    "Recall the market-timing scandal pursued by Eliot Spitzer"


    investigating AIG.. dangerous guy; gotta like that

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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 12:12 AM
    Response to Reply #135
    139. I didn't know that about mutual funds -makes me sick.nt
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 11:52 AM
    Response to Reply #17
    76. Jerome Hauer
    Edited on Mon Jun-26-06 12:37 PM by DrDebug
    One of the former employees of Kroll, Jerome Hauer, organised a security job for ex-FBI anti- terror chief John O'Neill in the Twin Towers, where he died on September 11th 2001. (1)

    Jerry Hauer, one of Washington's most important Bio-Terrorism Consultants has an interesting resume, which included also some odd meetings during the last weeks before September 11th:

    In 1983, Hauer joined IBM where he was responsible for the company's Hazardous Materials Response and Crisis Management and Fire Safety programs. Hauer produced a series of hazardous materials training videos that earned him the International Film and TC Critics of New York Bronze award in 1986.
    Hauer earned a master's degree with a focus on emergency medical services at Johns Hopkins School.
    Later he was member of the John Hopkins Working Group on Civilian Bio Defense (2)

    In 1999 he worked at the SAIC's Center for Counterterrorism Technology and Analysis. (3)

    "His expertise in crisis management, fire safety and emergency medical response adds additional capabilities to our counterterrorism practice," said David Kay, director of SAIC's CCTA."
    But Hauer later left the SAIC, "which is a *huge* federal contractor, and has contracts with the CIA, the FBI and the DOE, as well as many other agencies." (4)

    In the same year he started then as Head of the Office of Emergency Management (OEM) for New York City during the 1999 WNV (West Nile Virus) "emergency".
    At this time also in contact with OraVax Corporation (now Acambis, partnered with Baxter and Aventis- they created in 1999 by parent companies Hoechst and Rhone-Poulenc.)-makers of the only WNV vaccine, he held a secret meeting with President Clinton and Janet Reno in the Truman Room at the White House a year before the alleged WNV outbreak in New York.
    Arrangements were then made to rescue the insolvent OraVax Corporation with a $343 million contract from the CDC for a smallpox vaccine, a $1.8 million contract from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases for a vaccine against dengue fever, and additional sums to stockpile the WNV vaccine for future "emergencies." (5)

    Oravax was later one of the few companies, who also received a huge BioDefense Budget after the anthrax attacks, together with Batelle, DynCorp and a few more.
    Hauer was in contact with Batelle, too. His OEM-team helped facilitate tests for Batelle, due to healthcare author Dr.Len Horowitz ( 6 ).
    Horowitz accused Hauer in at least 3 personal letters to FBI director Robert Mueller during October 2001 to be one of the "suspects" of the Department of Defenses "Joint Vaccine Acquisition", which was accelerated for millions of dollars in biowarfare profiteering due to the anthrax mailings.
    The other one had been Robert Myers, Bioports Chief Operating Officer and anthrax expert William C. Patrick III of Batelle, a close friend of Kanatjan Alibekov alias Ken Alibek who worked in the russian 60s Anthrax-project BIOPreparat and later on the payroll on CIA and Pentagon.
    As OEM-chief, Hauer also helped out with the construction of the OEM center known as "the bunker" on an upper floor of 7 World Trade Center, which collapsed on September 11th. (7)

    The CIA later confirmed that they had an office inside this building.
    Officially B7 started to burn because of a gas tank, which was illegally installed inside the building and obviously hit by debris from the Twin Towers attack.
    Hauer worked also for the security firm Kroll O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt, who are worldwide famous for Security Hardware, -Systems and -Services.
    They are also the official bodyguard contractor for all American presidents since Harry Truman and protect more than 60 international heads of state, and a long list of diplomats around the world.
    Kroll had various contracts with the US Army, e.g. during the Somalia War, for Bosnia or Togo for their vehicles or armor engineered equipment.
    On August 23rd, 2001 Kroll O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt became part of Armor Holdings, which is prime contractor to the U.S. Military for the supply of armoring and blast protection for High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicles, commonly known as HMMWVs. (8, 9)


    Much more at:
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 12:08 PM
    Response to Reply #76
    77. Armor Holdings a.k.a. RENT-A-SPY, INC.
    Edited on Mon Jun-26-06 12:45 PM by DrDebug

    By jenny Saturday, Nov. 30, 2002 at 3:29 PM
    American corporation involved in foreign and domestic espionage

    Armor Holdings, Inc. was founded in 1969 as American Body Armor & Equipment, Inc., Jacksonville, Florida. At that time, American was an industry leader in the development, manufacture and distribution of projectile resistant garments. Its manufacturing facility was in New York. Its main customer was law enforcement. American started as a small, mom-and-pop operation.

    In 1995, the company filed for Chapter 11, Bankruptcy and Reorganization. A group of international investors became interested in taking over the company so it was placed in the hands of British national, Jonathan Spiller. Mr. Spiller is or was a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales. Upon reorganizing, the company was renamed Armor Holdings.

    At the time of reorganization, the chain of command for Armor Holdings was as follows:
  • Warren B. Kanders
  • Burtt R. Ehrlich
  • Nicholas Sokolow
  • Thomas W. Strauss
  • Richard C. Barlett

    In 2001, the company made more adjustments and eliminated its US-based investigative offices. 26 positions were eliminated in all.

    Armor Holdings has a global presence. Its client base includes multi-national corporations, non-governmental organizations, governmental agencies, military, law enforcement, security, corrections, natural resource industry, financial industry, insurance industry, investment banks, legal profession, consumer products industry, U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Department of State, United Nations, USAID, World Bank, and Britain's Department for International Development.

    Products are manufactured in the US, UK, and Mexico. The product line includes body armor, vehicle armor, non- lethal weapons, duty gear and military garments, forensic collection equipment and supplies, prisoner restraints, and anti-riot gear (tear gas, percussion grenades, etc.) Located within this division is the Training Academy of Technology and Tactics to educate its clientele on the proper use of the previously identified products. The company has over 500 distributors and sales operatives worldwide.

  • So in 2001 they reorganized and got rid off their US spy division and just before 9/11 on August 23rd they bought Kroll. Doesn't make any sense...

    In 1996 they bought Defence Systems Limited which is also an "interesting" partner.

    Content is available under GNU Free Documentation License 1.2.

    Defence Systems Limited was one of the earliest PMCs (Private Military Corporations), formed in 1981 by a group of ex-SAS officials riding the swell brought on by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's yardsale of Britain's defense industry to cold war warriors of worth. DSL was initially started with private financial support from London bankers, and possibly some Middle East investors. Over the next fifteen years they established a reputation in the security industry and a small fortune, before selling all to Armor Holdings, Inc. in 1997 for $26 million (1).

    What was DSL became ArmorGroup, a one stop shop spot for a variety of products pertaining to defense and riot situations. They then reached out to old foes and brought on ex-KGB commandos when they acquired the Alpha Firm. (2);

    DSL has provided protection and training services to a variety of elite niches in the security sector. In addition to major corporations, DSL has received contracts from governments around the world. They guarded the embassies of the United States, South Africa and Switzerland in the Democratic Republic of Congo as well as the embassies of England, Italy, South Africa, Sweden, and the US in Angola. They have provided camps for workers rebuilding a railway line in Mozambique, trained policemen in Somoalia, demined areas of the former Yugoslavia (3) and worked with various NGOs.

    DSL has provided oil line protection and security force training for oil firms around the world. In the DRC they protected the SOCIR oil refinery installations belonging to Congo-SEP, a subsidiary of Belgian Petrofina. In Angola, where they were guarding oil and diamond companies, they were forced to expel 103 of their personnel for violating laws regarding the use of foreign corporate nationals. (4) Some other past clients include: Amoco, Andarko Petroleum, Bechtel, British Petroleum, Broken Hill Propriety Petroleum, Cambior, Chevron, De Beers, Exxon, Mobile and NGOs CARE and Goal.

    They have also worked extensively with the United Nations and the World Bank.

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 11:12 AM
    Response to Reply #77
    107. Alpha Firm. KGB's top team
    Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 11:13 AM by DrDebug
    Alpha Firm is part of Kroll and used to be a division of Armor Holdings. Alpha team is the privatized top team of the KGB.

    United States meets Russia and they go into business together

    On a Tuesday morning in late June last year, Alan Golacinski and Michael Golovatov joined Jacksonville, Florida Mayor John Delaney at the dedication of a new building in the city's "international tradeport."

    Golacinski is president of U.S. Defence Systems, a private company that provides security for U.S. embassies, especially in African countries. Golovatov is the director of a Moscow based company known as Alpha-A which provides security for businesses transporting goods across the former Soviet Union.

    A decade before, the two men would have been bitter, and probably deadly, rivals. Golacinski was White House Security Adviser, a position he rose to after 20 years in the State Department, while Golovatov spent an equal number of years working for the KGB's crack commando team, known at the time as Alpha.

    Now both Golacinski and Golovatov report to the same bosses-Richard Bethell and Sir Alistair Morrison-two ex-Special Air Service (SAS) commandos in London. They run a profitable private company named Defence Systems Limited (DSL) in London in offices next to Buckingham Palace.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 01:06 PM
    Response to Reply #76
    78. Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth About Bush, Oil
    Edited on Mon Jun-26-06 01:07 PM by DrDebug
    For those here who believe the al-Cokeda story. Replace terrorists with drug dealers and Osama bin Laden with the drug trade and carry on reading ;)

    An explosive new book published originally in France is revealing some extraordinary details of the extent to which US oil corporations influenced the Bush administration's policies toward the Taliban regime prior to September 11th. The book is called Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth. And it paints a detailed picture of the Bush administration's secret negotiations with the Taliban government in the months and weeks before the attacks on the World Trade Center. It charges that under the influence of US oil companies the Bush administration blocked U.S. secret service investigations on terrorism. It tells the story of how the administration conducted secret negotiations with the Taliban to hand-over Osama bin Laden in exchange for political recognition and economic aid. The book says that Washington's main aim in Afghanistan prior to September 11th was consolidating the Taliban regime, in order to obtain access to the oil and gas reserves in Central Asia.

    The authors claim that before the September 11th attacks, Christina Rocca, the head of Asian Affairs in the US State Department, met the Taliban Ambassador to Pakistan Abdul Salam Zaeef in Islamabad on August 2. Rocca is a veteran of US involvement in Afghanistan. She was previously in charge of contacts with Islamist guerrilla groups at the CIA, where she oversaw the delivery of Stinger missiles to Afghan mujahideen fighting the Soviet occupation forces in the 1980s.

    The book also reveals that the Taliban actually hired an American public relations' expert for an image-making campaign in the US. What's amazing is that the PR officer was a woman named Laila Helms, who is the niece of former CIA director Richard Helms. Helms is described as the Mata Hari of US-Taliban negotiations. The authors claim that she brought Sayed Rahmatullah Hashimi, an advisor to Mullah Omar, to Washington for five days in March 2001 - after the Taliban had destroyed the ancient Buddhas of Bamiyan. Hashimi met the Directorate of Central Intelligence at the CIA, and the Bureau of Intelligence and Research at the State Department.

    The book also says that the Deputy Director of the FBI, John O'Neill, resigned in July in protest of the Bush administration's obstruction of an investigation into alleged Taliban terrorist activities. O'Neill then became head of security at the World Trade Center. He died in the September 11th attacks.

    Salon interview:
    Intelligence online: (Website of the French authors)
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 07:26 AM
    Response to Reply #76
    89. Louis Freeh -> Thomas Pickard -> Robert Mueller
    Edited on Tue Jun-27-06 07:32 AM by DrDebug
    An interesting aspect of 9/11 is what happened to the Director of the FBI during that period. It can be argued that Louis Freeh was not the right person to cover up 9/11 and that Robert Mueller was, because of prior experience with Noriega and the BCCI. The person which gets overlooked of course is Thomas Pickard because he ran the FBI while 9/11 was being organized / planned.

    Louis Freeh (- June 25, 2001)

    The FBI Blamed Ashcroft

    Newsweek reported an "extraordinary confrontation" between the attorney general and then-FBI director Louis Freeh at the annual meeting of FBI Special Agents in Charge in May 2001. Ashcroft and Freeh met before their appearance and the attorney general laid out his priorities, "'basically, violent crime and drugs,' recalls one participant. Freeh replied bluntly that those were not his priorities, and started to talk about terror and counterterrorism. 'Ashcroft didn't want to hear about it,' says a former senior law enforcement official." The New York Times and Washington Post reported that Thomas J. Pickard, acting director of the FBI in the summer of 2001, told the 9/11 Commission that Ashcroft had "little interest" in terrorism.

    Ashcroft temporarily appoint Thomas Pickard who we shall discuss last because he is the most interesting. One week before 9/11 on September 4, 2001, Robert Muller becomes Director of the FBI

    Robert Muller (September 4, 2001 -)

    Robert Mueller was responsible for the prosecution of Gen. Manuel Noriega of Panama, who was the CIA's main money launderer for CIA operations in Panama. Even Congress knew of Noriega's CIA connections. Senator Kerry said that Noriega "had been on the payroll and an employee of the CIA for many, many, many years" Noriega was taken down by the CIA and prosecuted because he was found to be taking a much larger cut out of CIA drug profits than was agreed upon. During the trial, the presiding judge ruled that Noriega could not enter into evidence any documents proving his relationship to the CIA over the years. Mueller helped cover up this major issue by silencing Noriega.

    Robert Mueller assumes the job of FBI Director. He had been nominated for the job in July 2001 after Louis Freehs unexpected and sudden resignation. Thomas Pickard was interim director for three months. Mueller held a variety of jobs in the Justice Department for over a decade prior to his nomination. Most notably, he led Justice Department investigations into the 1991 collapse of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) (see July 5, 1991) and the 1988 bombing of Pan-Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland.

    Mueller was heavily criticized for his role in the BCCI investigation. For instance, a bipartisan Congressional BCCI investigation led by Senators John Kerry (D) and Hank Brown (R) stated, Unfortunately, as time has passed it has become increasingly clear that the Justice Department did indeed make critical errors in its handling of BCCI ... and moreover masked inactivity in prosecuting and investigating the bank by advising critics that matters pertaining to BCCI were under investigation, when in fact they were not and also (hindered) other legitimate investigative efforts, and (failed) to admit that it had made any of these mistakes.

    Mueller himself noted in 1991 that there was an appearance of, one, foot-dragging; two, perhaps a cover-up, but denied the cover-up claims. A Wall Street Journal editorial notes that Even George W. Bush bumped up against the outer fringes of the BCCI crowd during his tenure with Harken Energy and in his friendship with Texas entrepreneur James Bath, and opines, On general principles, our view is that it would be a mistake to appoint as FBI head anyone who had any role in the failed BCCI probe. Too many important questions remain unanswered...

    FBI Director Mueller describes reports that several of the hijackers had received flight training in the US as news, quite obviously, adding, If we had understood that to be the case, we would have perhaps one could have averted this. It will later be discovered that contrary to Muellers claims, the FBI had interviewed various flight school staffs about Middle Eastern militants on numerous occasions, from 1996 until a few weeks before 9/11. Three days later, he says, There were no warning signs that Im aware of that would indicate this type of operation in the country. Slate magazine will contrast this with numerous other contradictory statements and articles, and will award Mueller the Whopper of the Week.

    Let's throw in John O'Neill again:

    John O'Neill and his lost briefcase: O'Neill lost his briefcase on Aug. 19th 2001, in a Miami conference room. The briefcase was returned in a few hours, nothing was missing. In an interview with french authors Brisard + Dasquie (Forbidden Truth), he complained about the sabotage within the FBI and implied a plot against him by FBI-director Thomas Pickard or Louis Freeh.,John.shtml

    He still says or, however Thomas Pickard is the strange person in this story.

    He did give a warning to Ashcroft which was of course ignored

    July 12, 2001: Ashcroft Reputedly Uninterested in Terrorism

    On July 5, the CIA briefed Attorney General Ashcroft on the al-Qaeda threat, warning that a significant terrorist attack is imminent, and a strike could occur at any time. <9/11 Commission, 4/13/2004> On this day, acting FBI Director Tom Pickard briefs Ashcroft about the terror threat inside the US. Pickard later swears under oath that Ashcroft tells him, (I do) not want to hear about this anymore. Ashcroft, also under oath, later categorically denies the allegation, saying, I did never speak to him saying that I didnt want to hear about terrorism. However, Ruben Garcia, head of the Criminal Division, and another senior FBI official corroborate Pickards account. Ashcrofts account is supported by his top aide, but another official in Ashcrofts office who could also support Ashcrofts account says he cannot remember what happened. Pickard briefs Ashcroft on terrorism four more times that summer, but he never mentions al-Qaeda to Ashcroft again before 9/11. Pickard later makes an appeal to Ashcroft for more counterterrorism funding; Ashcroft rejects the appeal on September 10, 2001 (see September 10, 2001). <9/11 Commission, 4/13/2004> Pickard later says, Before September 11th, I couldnt get half an hour on terrorism with Ashcroft. He was only interested in three things: guns, drugs, and civil rights.

    It appears from these stories that maybe Mueller was send in as his replacement because Pickard had the same issues with Ashcroft as Freeh. However there is also this:

    911- The final dots Pt.2 -Top 20 LIHOP- Suspects?

    #4 Thomas Pickard, Bristol Myers Squibb

    On June 25, 2001, Pickard was appointed Acting Director of the FBI by Attorney General John Ashcroft.

    Thomas Pickard took over the job of FBI Director Louis J. Freeh, but held this position only for a couple of weeks before Richard Mueller became Director on September 4, 2001. (1)

    John O'Neill complained about sabotage by Pickard. But because O'Neill's story was never discussed in public, Pickard was never asked about this point. What exactly "went wrong," causing Pickard to ignore the various warnings about a possible terrorist attack and the memos from Williams about the flying lessons by Muslims and the arrest of Moussaoui, Habib Zacarias? (2)

    We should take a look at Pickard's career to find a possible answer on this. Pickard started his career as an agent in the FBI's New York office in 1975 and went on to work on a number of high-profile cases. Pickard went undercover and offered congressmen bribes as part of the 1979 Abscam probe and supervised the FBI's role in trials in the first World Trade Center attack and the arrest of Ramzi Youssef, charged with plotting to blow up U.S. airliners. He helped oversee the investigation into the explosion of TWA Flight 800, the espionage investigation of former FBI agent Earl Edwin Pitts and the capture in Pakistan of Mir Aimal Kasi, who was convicted of killing CIA workers at a traffic light outside the agency's headquarters.

    Now this specialist Pickard claims he never heard about the memos by Williams and Rowley. Even with all these connections? The Washington Post seemed to believe this too: "The Phoenix memo was circulated only among counterterrorism divisions in New York and at Washington headquarters. It was not shown to then-acting director Thomas J. Pickard or other senior FBI managers, officials said." (3)

    But the question is why these memos were not shown to Pickard? In November 2001 Pickard retired and started a job at Bristol Myers Squibb as new Head Of Corporate Security in January 2002. (6)

    Did Pickard let the attack happen on purpose?
    If so, under whose influence?
    Did he also know about a possible anthrax attack?
    Is that the reason he later started a job in the pharmacy?
    Did he let the anthrax attack happen as well?


    One weird thing about the anthrax suspect while we are on that subject:

    The FBI's biggest anthrax suspect, Stephen Hatfill, in 2002, was connected with Sep11 th related individuals and companies like Battelle, Jerome Hauer, Porton Down, USAMRIID and Dr. Thomas Inglesby (Johns Hopkins Institute), who claimed, that in June 2001 one of the hijackers was infected with cutaneous anthrax.

    Versar, Paul Bremer's bio-terrorism company becomes "interesting" as well.

    There were also quite a number of other FBI agents who died on 9/11. What division did they work for? Why didn't Ashcroft want to solve 9/11?
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    tyrauber Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:49 PM
    Response to Reply #17
    98. Are we to believe this was an isolated incident?
    This story was reported in several mainstream sources. Yet, no investigation into Kroll has happened stateside. Are we to believe that it was only the Brazilian office of Kroll that was involved in "illegal industrial espionage?"

    I think not.

    Ty Rauber
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 05:25 PM
    Response to Reply #98
    101. The French kicked them out as well for spying
    France and the US always had a weird love-hate relationship where they are sometimes the biggest pals in wars - as long as the peace negotiations are in Paris - and sometimes they tell each other's dirty secrets, foil coup d'etats etc.

    The French, the CIA and the Man Who Sued Too Much
    By David Ignatius, The Washington Post

    William Lee is a 57-year-old Harvard-educated corporate lawyer whose specialty, until recently, was international mergers and acquisitions. But a year ago, the government of France charged that he was a spy for the Central Intelligence Agency, waging a secret war to destabilize French corporate interests in Asia.

    The " William Lee affair," as it is known in Paris, appears to be a bizarre case of mistaken identity. Top CIA officials say the agency has no connection to Lee, and the French have dropped their allegations. But it adds a strange new chapter to what is becoming one of the world's hottest spy rivalries, now that the Cold War is over -- the battle between France and the United States over economic espionage.

    The Lee affair began to get nasty last Jan. 26, when French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua summoned U.S. Ambassador Pamela Harriman to complain about American spying against France. As has been widely reported, Pasqua demanded that several CIA spies leave the country.

    Some of the French anxiety about Lee stems from what he did next. In mid-1992, he took a part-time position with Kroll Associates, a New York firm that provides investigative services for big companies and employs a number of former CIA and FBI officers.

    For French officials, Lee's brief stint with Kroll tagged him as a suspicious person. According to French and U.S. sources, the French equivalent of the FBI, known as the Directorate of Surveillance of the Territory, or DST, suspected that Kroll's Paris operation was a CIA front. They bugged Kroll's Paris offices and harassed some of its clients, according to company executives.

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 03:25 PM
    Response to Original message
    24. Interlinking al-Cokeda
    Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 03:26 PM by DrDebug

    al-Cokeda scam

    How the 9/11 flight schools were being used for narcotics trafficing to finance black operations like 9/11 which was covered up by labeling the drug dealers, terrorists. The drug import just continued after 9/11 as if nothing happened and included in the biggest cocaine bust ever...

    Mohammed Atta's girlfriend

    Learn about drug planes being used also for illegal CIA rendition, the (hidden) owner of the flight school committing insider trading on 9/11, scams with non-existing companies which miraculous produce DC-9s, and much more...
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 12:23 AM
    Response to Original message
    40. kick
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 03:31 AM
    Response to Reply #40
    47. Standard Charter Bank
    (Valis at Let's roll 911 posted this) :

    According to the official 9/11 storybook as described in the Moussaoui indictment,Standard Chartered Bank had quite the role to play in 9/11 patsy funding:

    Al-Hawsawi and Fayez Ahmed (#175) Open UAE Bank Accounts

    57. On June 25, 2001, Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi used a cash deposit to open a checking account at a Standard Chartered Bank branch in Dubai, UAE.

    58. On June 25, 2001, at the same Standard Chartered Bank branch in Dubai, UAE, Fayez Ahmed (#175) used a cash deposit to open a savings account and also opened a checking account.

    Fayez Ahmed (#175) Gives Al-Hawsawi Control Over UAE Account

    61. On July 18, 2001, Fayez Ahmed (#175) gave power of attorney to Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi for Fayez Ahmed's Standard Chartered Bank accounts in UAE.

    Final Preparations for the Coordinated Air Attack

    76. On or about August 22, 2001, Fayez Ahmed (#175) used his VISA card in Florida to obtain approximately $4,900 cash, which had been deposited into his Standard Chartered Bank account in UAE the day before.

    The Hijackers Return Excess Money to Al-Hawsawi in UAE

    91. On or about September 6, 2001, approximately $8,055 was wired from Fayez Ahmed's (#175) Florida SunTrust account to the Standard Chartered Bank account over which Al-Hawsawi had power of attorney.

    97. On September 11, 2001, in UAE, approximately $16,348 was deposited into Al-Hawsawi's Standard Chartered Bank account.

    98. On September 11, 2001, in UAE, at about 9:22 a.m. local time (the early morning hours of Eastern Daylight Time), Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi moved approximately $6,534 from the $8,055 in Fayez Ahmed's (#175) Standard Chartered Bank account into his own account, using a check dated September 10, 2001 and signed by Fayez Ahmed; Al-Hawsawi then withdrew approximately $1,361, nearly all the remaining balance in Ahmed's account, by ATM cash withdrawal.

    99. On September 11, 2001, in UAE, approximately $40,871 was prepaid to a VISA card connected to Al-Hawsawi's Standard Chartered Bank account.

    Then we look to our WTC-7 building 7 occupant list

    And what do we have here?:

    Standard Chartered Bank - Floors 10,13,26,27
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 03:38 AM
    Response to Reply #47
    48. WTC7 was spook and intelligence central
    Edited on Fri Jun-23-06 03:38 AM by DrDebug
    Lots of embarrassing things suddenly disappeared with that building. It's pretty clear that most of the dirty information prior to 9/11/2001 was thoroughly shredded when that building got pulled. It was like a fresh start.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 06:49 AM
    Response to Original message
    50. AMEC Kingstar and Tully Construction Controlled Demolition Inc
    Edited on Fri Jun-23-06 06:49 AM by DrDebug
    We need to check whether there are links between AMEC and Tully Construction with either Kroll or Marsh.

    Both construction companies have destruction companies as well. The most interesting is Tully. Also because Tully had prior experience with skyscrapers and OKC. AMEC was probably used for the simpler Pentagon and 7-7.

    AMEC (CD part: Kingstar (7-7 & Pentagon)
    Tully Construction (CD: Controlled Demolition Inc. ( WTC)

    People involved with the "controlled cleanup":

    Tully, Peter

    (Tully Construction, subcontractor responsible for most excavation and trucking operations at the WTC. Tully retained Controlled Demolition Inc.,Phoenix, Md, who had been involved once in the demolition of the bombed Murrah Building in Oklahoma in 1995. Controlled Demolition is specialised in implosions of big towers, like i.e. the Landmark Hotel Tower* in Las Vegas or the Columbus Homes Housing Projects in Newark, New Jersey.) (1)

    Mason, Sir Peter

    (Chief Executive of AMEC, involved in renovation of the wedge of the Pentagon, which was later hit. Hired for Controlled Clean-up of both Pentagon and WTC.
    Among Clients: SAIC and Telcordia/Robert W. Lucky, member of ANSER Institute for Homeland Security since 1999)

    Taylor, Ross

    (Chief Executive Officer of the Bovis Lend Lease Real Estate Solutions. Bovis Lend was involved in the controlled cleanup of the WTC rubble and renovation of Hotel Millennium Hilton, NYC until May 2003. On October 30, 2001 Bovis announced their division of Bovis Lend Lease Pharmaceutical)

    Tully Construction

    When contacted by the American Free Press (AFPN) and asked, if they ever had seen concrete pulverized as it was in the WTC, they said: "No-never". "Tully said, that there were hot spots where he observed 'literally molten steel'...Everything that was above grade -above the 6th and 7th floor was like an explosion" (AFPN/08/26/02)
    "We had 75 trucks leaving a day during the first few days," says Tully.

    Tully Construction of Flushing, NY is the only american-owned company who was hired for the "cleanup of Sep11th".
    Earlier this year Tully received a contract by the MTA/New York City Transit Subway System in a joint venture with .J. Pegno of Flushing, N.Y., the project's general contractor.

    Work includes 1,200 ft. of complete tunnel replacement, tunnel lighting and track and signal work. At Ground Zero Tully built concrete plugs to prevent dust and debris from further contaminating the entire line. "We used supersuckers in there to clean up the dust and debris. The plugs have since been removed," President Peter Tully noted.

    Tully has been under a special monitoring arrangement with New York City since 1996; prior to that, it was banned from doing business with the city. Among conflicts it became embroiled in were complaints that it performed a shoddy job fixing up Brooklyn homes after a water main break.

    Tully retained Controlled Demolition Inc.,Phoenix, Md, who had been involved once in the demolition of the bombed Murrah Building in Oklahoma in 1995. Controlled Demolition is specialised in implosions of big towers, like i.e. the Landmark Hotel Tower* in Las Vegas or the Columbus Homes Housing Projects in Newark, New Jersey.

    Controlled Demolition had their first implosions in the 70s and worked several times for the US or local governments.
    In 1991 they imploded the Old Orlando City Hall in Orlando, Florida.

    In 1995 they imploded the Mendes Caldeira Building So Paulo Brazil(361 feet tall), as they say on their website, the "tallest standing concrete building ever felled with explosives". In 1998 they imploded a 439 feet, the "tallest structural steel building ever imploded"

    Controlled Demolition claims to have "a very small number of employees" and not much known is about their business profile. They work together with the The Loizeaux Family.
    In February 2000, a federal grand jury indicted Mark Loizeaux, Douglas Loizeaux and Controlled Demolition, Inc. on charges of falsely reporting campaign contributions to the campaign of Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.).
    The Baltimore Sun reported, that the illegal contributions allegedly occurred between 1996 and 1998. The Loizeaux brothers and CDI were acquitted in September 2000.

    On the internet, houndred of websites speculate since September 2001 about a possible controlled demolition inside the Twin Towers with bombs. J. McMichael was one of the first dozen engineers, who tried to wonder about the collapse.

    A very impressive and intense discussion currently continues at

    Summary from 9/11 truth:

    We would like to have public disclosure of the reasons for a $150 million pre-9/11 Pentagon renovation by AMEC Plc. of the same section of the Pentagon Wedge 1 which was later officially attacked.
    AMEC was later also responsible for the removal of the rubble at Ground Zero and the Pentagon.
    AMEC's auditor is KPMG. In June 2002, they hired former FBI IT chief Robert J. Chiaradio as managing director and lead advisor on homeland security.

    Furthermore another cleanup company named Tully retained Controlled Demolition Inc., Phoenix, MD, who had been involved once in the demolition of the bombed Murrah Building in Oklahoma in 1995.
    Controlled Demolition is specialized in implosions of big towers, like the Landmark Hotel Tower* in Las Vegas or the Columbus Homes Housing Projects in Newark, New Jersey.
    In May 2001, Controlled Demolition Inc. was involved in a controlled demolition of 2 Twin Gas Storage Towers in Queens, New York.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 08:25 AM
    Response to Original message
    58. The relationship between AIG and CIA

    American International Group

    (...) AIG is a public company. Its largest single shareholder with 13.62 percent of AIG stock is Starr International Company (SICO), a private company headquartered in the tax haven of Bermuda. Greenberg owns 21.86 percent of SICO. Forbes says Greenberg has a net-worth of $3.6 billion, making him the worlds 132nd richest man. Greenberg was elected AIG president in 1962, CEO in 1967 and chairman in 1989.

    (...) Greenberg has enviable political clout, never so much in evidence as when, with the help of Henry Kissinger -- chair of AIG's international advisory committee and a paid consultant via Kissinger Associates AIG became in 1995, the first company licensed to sell insurance in China. AIG was the only foreign firm that owned 100 percent of its license there.

    The American International Group at its origins was linked to the OSS (Office of Strategic Services) the forerunner of the CIA. It grew from the Asia Life/C. V. Starr companies founded by Cornelius Starr who started his insurance empire in Shanghai in 1919, the first westerner to market insurance in China.

    Starr served with the OSS during World War II, and the Starr Corporation, located in the same building as the OSS in New York, provided intelligence on shipping, manufacturing and industrial bombing targets in Asia and Germany. The companies' biggest shareholder was Starr International Company (SICO), a private holding company incorporated in offshore Panama and with principal executive offices in offshore Bermuda, to avoid U.S. regulation and taxes. Starr left Greenberg a large block of Starr International stock.

    August 14, 2001
    Part Two of a Multi-Part Series
    Michael C. Ruppert

    There are mounting holes in the story of a woman, Coral Talavera Baca (henceforth referred to by her maiden name Talavera), who has claimed to be the wife of Medellin Cartel co-founder, Carlos Lehder, deepening the mystery about relationships between her, Lehder himself, the insurance giant American International Group (AIG), and the Central Intelligence Agency. These new discrepancies, including her prior confirmation of the authenticity of documents now suspected of being forged, have raised the possibility that the U.S. Government, in partnership with AIG, has been deliberately planting false information in the press to support the woman's claims about Lehder's reported freedom and activities. Talavera has been simultaneously described as either Staff Counsel for AIG's in house San Francisco law firm or as its office manager.

    In Part I of this series we reported that other journalists, who have asked not to be identified, had received the same documents we continue to examine here. Some of those documents purport to be official reports from the U.S. Treasury and U.S. Attorney's offices. As FTW moves deeper into its multi-part investigation - inspired by revelations of possible 1987-92 drug money laundering involving AIG, Goldman Sachs and the Arkansas Development Financial Authority (ADFA) - attention now focuses on Talavera's employer, AIG. These events increased my interest in the 1987 founding of Coral Reinsurance (Coral Re) by AIG, Goldman Sachs (whose then Vice Chairman Robert Rubin served as Treasury Secretary in the Clinton Administration) and ADFA. Lehder, arrested in 1987, was allowed to keep almost $3 billion in assets in a move severely criticized by Merkle. Where did that money go? Was it hidden it in a major insurance company with cash flows large enough to conceal it? This question, more than any other, except establishing Lehder's current status, prompted me to begin this investigation.

    What is known about the firm which employs Talavera, who is not a lawyer, and permits her to represent herself as "Staff Counsel" for its San Francisco legal office while simultaneously representing herself as the wife of a one-time cocaine cartel head? On June 22, just two days after I had lunch with her and confirmed that I was writing a story, a receptionist at Brown and Boland, AIG's San Francisco in-house counsel, told me and others that Talavera had fled her employment and gone to Cuba. Yet the firm, located in the AIG building and using AIG e-mail addresses, is currently announcing in new, dated voice mail messages, that she is still the office manager.

    FTW has also conducted an extensive investigation into AIG and its predecessors, including the C. V. Starr Insurance Companies, revealing deep connections to US intelligence dating back to the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) in World War II. These connections include documented CIA operatives connected to drug smuggling from Southeast Asia and a current board member, Frank Wisner, Jr., whose father was a key figure in the creation of the CIA. History, as well as AIG's current operations, suggest that these relationships continue unabated today.

    Are we allowed to know what is behind the scenes. At least Von Buelow, former German Minister of Defense, seems to think so and said back in Jan 2002 that 9/11 looked like an inside job.

    He doesn't like intelligence bureaus either, because even as a mere Minister of Defense he wasn't allowed to know what it was what they did. Just to give you an idea how shadow government they really are.

    Former Top German Minister Rejects Official Story Of 911 Attacks

    15/16 January 2002

    Former German Cabinet Minister Attacks Official Brainwashing On September 11 Issue
    Points at "Mad Dog" Zbig and Huntington

    Original source: Tagesspiegel, 13 Jan 2002

    Your career actually speaks against the idea that you are not in your right mind. You were already in the 1970s, state secretary in the Defense Ministry; in 1993 you were the SPD (Social Democratic Party) speaker in the Schalk-Golodkowski investigation committee--

    Von Buelow:
    And it all began there! Until that time, I did not have any great knowledge of the work of intelligence agencies. And now we had to take note of a great discrepancy: We shed light on the dealings of the Stasi and other East bloc intelligence agencies in the field of economic criminality, but as soon as we wanted to know something about the activities of the BND (German intelligence) or the CIA, it was mercilessly blocked. No information, no cooperation, nothing! That's when I was first taken aback.

    Why don't you speculate on who it might have been.

    Von Buelow:
    With the help of the horrifying attacks, the Western mass democracies were subjected to brainwashing. The enemy image of anti-communism doesn't work any more; it is to be replaced by peoples of Islamic belief. They are accused of having given birth to suicidal terrorism.

    Brainwashing? That's a tough term.

    Von Buelow:
    Yes? But the idea of the enemy image doesn't come from me. It comes from Zbigniew Brzezinski and Samuel Huntington, two policy-makers of American intelligence and foreign policy. Already in the middle of he 1990s, Huntingon believed, people in Europe and the U.S. needed someone they could hate - this would strengthen their identification with their own society. And Brzezinski, the mad dog, as adviser to President Jimmy Carter, campaigned for the exclusive right of the U.S. to seize all the raw materials of the world, especially oil and gas.

    You don't think much of the earlier proposals by the Greens, who wanted to dismantle these agencies?

    Von Buelow:
    No. It is right to take a look behind the scenes. Getting intelligence about the intentions of an enemy, makes sense. It is important when one tries to put oneself into the mind of the enemy. Whoever wants to understand the CIA's methods, has to deal with its main tasks, covert operations: below the level of war, and outside international law, foreign states are to be influenced, by organizing insurrections, terrorist attacks, usually combined with drugs and weapons trade, and money laundering. This is essentially very simple: One arms violent people with weapons. Since, however, it must not under any circumstances come out, that there is an intelligence agency behind it, all traces are erased, with tremendous deployment of resources.

    I have the impression that this kind of intelligence agency spends 90% of its time this way: creating false leads. So that, if anyone suspects the collaboration of the agencies, he is accused of the sickness of conspiracy madness. The truth often comes out only years later. CIA chief Allen Dulles once said: In case of doubt, I would even lie to the Congress!

    How did you get the idea that there could be a link between the attacks and the American intelligence agencies?

    Von Buelow:
    Do you remember the first attack on the WorldTrade Center in 1993?

    Six people were killed and over a thousand wounded, by a bomb explosion.

    Von Buelow:
    In the middle was the bombmaker, a former Egyptian officer. He had pulled together some Muslims for the attack. They were snuck into the country by the CIA, despite a State Department ban on their entry. At the same time, the leader of the band was an FBI informant.

    And he made a deal with the authorities: At the last minute, the dangerous explosive material would be replaced by a harmless powder.

    The FBI did not stick to the deal. The bomb exploded, so to speak, with the knowledge of the FBI. The official story of the crime was quickly found: The criminals were evil Muslims.

    Do you criticize the German government for its reaction after Sept. 11?

    Von Buelow:
    No. To assume that the government were independent in these questions, would be naive.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 07:01 AM
    Response to Reply #58
    63. AIG and Mena

    By the Staff of the OZARK GAZETTE

    (...) The state of Arkansas was the lead investor in a deal which poured sixty million dollars through a Barbados company, Coral Reinsurance, which is currently under investigation by insurance regulators in New York, Pennsylvania, and Delaware as well as by Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau, lead prosecutor in the BCCI scandal.

    (...) The American International Group is a 100-billion dollar, multi-national insurance company which founded Coral Reinsurance Company in 1987. The fact that AIG founded Coral was hidden from insurance regulators for at least 3 years and was only recently proven by the reluctant release by ADFA of the original stock placement memorandum. Maurice Greenburg as president of AIG is a very well connected businessman and a player in international politics. He serves as the chairman of the US- China Business Council and lobbied hard (and successfully) for the Clinton administration to sever the link between China's human rights record and renewal of China's most-favored-nation trade status. Members of the board of directors of AIG include Martin Feldstein, Harvard University economics professor and former chairman of the President's Council of Economic Advisors and Carla Hills, former U.S. trade representative. AIG's international advisory board is headed by Henry A. Kissinger.

    (...) Recently, two very respected investigative journalists, Roger Morris and Sally Denton, have published the most authoritative and highly documented account to date of events at the Mena airport between 1982 and 1986. Based on over 2,000 documents including the previously unpublished personal papers of Barry Seal, their article "The Crimes of Mena" in the July issue of Penthouse Magazine reveals the government's protection, and cover up of drug smuggling, gun running and money laundering.

    (...) In a conversation about their collaboration, Drew told Swaney that he had found evidence of ADFA's involvement in a very strange deal with a certain Coral Reinsurance Company. Roy Drew had been reading the minutes of ADFA's board of directors meetings and found one paragraph (in thousands of pages) describing a deal where ADFA would borrow 5 million dollars from the Sanwa bank's Chicago branch to buy stock in Coral Reinsurance. Additionally, the minutes revealed that according to the terms of the loan ADFA did not have to repay the loan if it did not make as much money in dividends on the stock as it owed in interest on the loan. To the Committee, this seemed to be the long sought after link between ADFA and an insurance company, especially since there was no known connection to any other insurance business.

    So we have one more story that AIG could have been used to launder Mena and since Venice is very similar to Mena, a similar construction might be used for 9/11.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 04:31 PM
    Response to Reply #58
    81. Starr (AIG forerunner) - drugs - Enron - Enron coverup via AIG - Khashoggi
    Edited on Mon Jun-26-06 04:41 PM by DrDebug

    While helping the OSS cause in China, Starr - the founder of the forerunner of AIG - allegedly reported to Paul Helliwell, who had been chief of special intelligence, according to the late Wall Street Journal investigative reporter Jonathan Kwitny. In his book on the Nugan Hand bank, The Crimes of Patriots, Kwitny writes that the CIA,
    began supplying the through two front companies: Civil Air Transport (later Air America), headquartered in Taiwan, and Sea Supply Corporation, headquartered in Bangkok Sea Supply Corporation, for its part, was founded and run by a lawyer and CIA operative named Paul Helliwell Colleagues from those days told the Wall Street Journals Jim Drinkhall that Helliwell, then a colonel, regularly used to buy information with five-pound shipments of opium.

    When General Claire Chennault, who commanded the Flying Tigers in World War II (and later ran Civil Air Transport), wanted Washingtons support for the KMT operation, Helliwell became the liaison between Chennault and Frank G. Wisner, head of the Office of Policy Coordination (later the covert operations branch of the CIA). Wisner gave the green light.

    Roughly 50 years later, in October of 1997, Wisners son, Ambassador Frank G. Wisner, Jr., joined the board of Enron. He was the US ambassador to India when the energy company began working on the Dabhol Power project.

    According to a Human Rights Watch report,

    Enron found a powerful ally in the U.S. government. Ambassador Frank Wisner took up Enrons cause and hammered home to Indian officials that the two countries newly established business ties would suffer if the Dabhol project were canceled altogether. The backing of Wisner...speaks volumes for Enrons ability to rope powerful people in to help their cause, says a top official in the Power Ministry who was with the Power Ministry when the Dabhol deal was initially cleared. The Indian government was clearly intimidated by Enrons clout.


    by Wayne Madsen


    The investigations of the secret Bush money tranches are coming to the fore as New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer focuses in on the scandal involving Maurice "Hank" Greenberg and the inflation of the worth of American Insurance Group (AIG) through shady affiliates, including AIG reinsurer Coral Re of Barbados. Greenberg was the CEO of AIG but was forced to step down amid the Spitzer probe. (...)

    Spitzer's investgation of AIG is starting to dovetail with that of Morgenthau. One focus of the investigation is on some questionable Enron "cash flow" notes payable to Citicorp and J. P. Morgan Chase and purchased in May 2001 by AIG and the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. On August 21, 2001, just a few weeks before the 911 attacks, a UBS Warburg/Paine Webber broker named Chung Wu advised his investors to sell their Enron stock, whereafter UBS quickly fired the broker. In an email Wu advised customers, Financial situation is deteriorating in Enron and price drops another $7.00I would advise you to take some money off the table even at this point. The House Committee on Government Reform investigated the sacking of Wu and his warning but little came from the GOP-run committee. In December 2001, Enron filed for bankruptcy in New York City, not in Houston, where its headquarters was located. The New York bankruptcy court appointed Steven Cooper of Zolfo-Cooper LLC to run Enron.

    The deal involving Cooper's assumption of control of Enron raised eyebrows among regulators, chiefly because Cooper's Catalyst Equity Partner's Fund included Citicorp and J.P. Morgan Chase, two of Enron's major creditors. Financial investigators report that the Enron notes to Citicorp and Chase and sold to AIG and MacArthur were unusual, out of the ordinary, and "lacked teeth." A former U.S. Justice Department prosecutor referred to such financial instruments as "feints" designed to mask illegal transactions by keeping them off the books and away from the eyes of U.S. government regulators. In September 2002, Kroll Inc., a shadowy firm with ties to the U.S. intelligence community, acquired Zolfo-Cooper and Cooper was named managing director of Kroll Zolfo Cooper. In May 2004, Marsh & McLennan acquired Kroll and Zolfo Cooper. Jeffrey Greenberg, the son of AIG's Hank Greenberg, had earlier left AIG to run Marsh & McLennan. The revolving doors and musical chairs involving Enron, Kroll, Zolfo-Cooper, Marsh & McLennan, and AIG became the subject of Spitzer's probes. Another insurance firm investigated by Spitzer for price fixing of property casualty insurance coverage and conspiracy was ACE, headed by Hank Greenberg's other son, Evan. In October 2004, Jeffrey Greenberg quickly stepped down from Marsh & McLennan amid Spitzer's investigation.

    Hank Greenberg has had a long time relationship with Henry Kissinger, the partner of Richard Perle in Trireme Partners, the firm that, according to Seymour Hersh, attempted to negotiate deals with Saudi Arabia using Saudi billionaire arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi* as an intermediary. Greenberg and Khashoggi, according to CIA sources, have long had an interest in exploiting the oil and natural gas reserves of Uzbekistan and the construction of pipelines across the Uralskaya region of Russia. Uzbekistan has also featured prominently in oil and natural gas plans of Enron and UNOCAL. According to Enron insiders, on Saturday, September 7, 1996, 42 representatives of Enron and UNOCAL met in Tashkent, the Uzbek capital, with Khashoggi, Taliban representatives, and Uzbek government officials. The subject was the CentGas pipeline through Afghanistan to Pakistan, a project that involved UNOCAL, Enron, and Saudi support. Current Afghan President Hamid Karzai was a consultant on the pipeline for UNOCAL. Prior to the Tashkent oil summit, on June 23, 1996, a $10 billion wire transfer was made from Cyprus, via Barclays Bank in London, to Enron in Houston. Cyprus is a major banking center for illicit activity. The Tashkent meeting was followed by a spring 1997 meeting between Enron, UNOCAL, and Taliban representatives at the posh Houstonian Hotel in Houston. (registration required)

    Remember Adnan Khashoggi. Because he is the hidden man behind al-Cokeda. So both Khashoggi - who controls al-Cokeda - and Greenberg - whose family controls AIG/Kroll/Marsh - had an interest in the Oil and Gas pipeline in Afghanistan as well as the drug trade.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 03:20 AM
    Response to Reply #58
    86. The CIA sneaked them in
    for the 93 bombings. It's weird how that story is coming out and no one cares.
    What does he mean by
    "No. To assume that the government were independent in these questions, would be naive."
    I wonder?

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 03:56 AM
    Response to Reply #86
    87. It is weird that we are solving 9/11 and hardly anybody cares
    Edited on Tue Jun-27-06 03:56 AM by DrDebug
    There were quite a number of governments who must have known and probably helped out.

    "All governments are run by liars and nothing they say should be believed."
    I.F. Stone

    Here you go OKC:

    Shall I throw in Madrid 3/11 as well or just give a hint: Equatorial Guinea
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 07:58 AM
    Response to Reply #58
    90. Partners in Fraud: The Bush and Greenberg Families

    Partners in Fraud: The Bush and Greenberg Families
    by Al Martin

    They are partners in fraud. The Bush Family which runs the USA and the Greenberg Family which runs the insurance cartel composed of AIG, Marsh McLennan and Ace Insurance have a lot more in common than mainstream media will ever tell you, writes government whistleblower Al Martin, author of "The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran Contra Insider."

    In his column "Secrets of the Insurance (Fraud)Industry: The Bush-Greenberg Connection" published on Al Martin Raw (, Martin writes that "New York State Attorney Eliot Spitzer is investigating systemic fraud in the insurance industry in which Greenberg Family controlled insurance cartel companies like Marsh McLennan, AIG and Ace Insurance get kickbacks for steering corporate clients their way. Three employees of Marsh McLennan have already pled guilty to insurance fraud. Now, in this exclusive report on, you will learn about the insurance fraud connection between the Bush and Greenberg families which Spitzer is NOT investigating.

    "In the 1980's, the Colombian Greenbergs began to expand their commercial real estate business into south Florida and the southeastern part of the United States in general. You would see that in all of the office buildings they bought, including my own, the building wherein I maintained my office, that AIG was the insurer of all of the properties that they own because, obviously, they received a preferred rate from their American Greenberg cousins," Martin explains.

    The connection between the Bushes and the Greenbergs is deep, Martin writes. "The Bush family is intimately connected with all of the companies that the Greenberg family, both the American and Colombian branches, run. You will note that Maurice Hank Greenberg, is the chairman of AIG, and his cousin is Alan Ace Greenberg, the former chairman of Bear Stearns.

    "Bear Stearns, of course, is where the Bush family, the Cheney family, George Schultz, James Baker, etc. all do business. It is the leading brokerage firm of the great and all powerful Bushonian Cabal.

    In another footnote to history, Martin writes that "its interesting to note that the CIA in its operations in northern South America, Venezuela and Colombia in particular, always did their agency banking through Greenberg-owned banks. This connection really goes back to the time that George Bush Sr. was head of the CIA"
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 08:12 AM
    Response to Reply #90
    91. Example fraud: Tri-Lateral Investment Group

    Excerpt from Al Martin's book about Bush's Harken Energy Fraud

    The Tri-Lateral Investment Group, Ltd. is also one of the deals (one of the very few deals, perhaps only a few dozen deals in that era by this group of guys) that you could connect Jeb, Neil, George, Jr., Prescott, and Wally Bush.

    All five you can put in the Tri-Lateral Investment Group, Ltd. You can put Neil in it vis-a-vis Tri-Lateral's dealings with Neil's Gulf Stream Realty.

    Then you back up a step and put Neil Bush into Tri-Lateral Investment Group's dealings with the Winn Financial Group of Denver run by the infamous former Ambassador to Switzerland, Phillip Winn. You can put George, Jr. in the deal vis-a-vis the Tri-Lateral Group Ltd.'s fraudulent relationship with American International Group (AIG), of which George, Jr. was a part through the same series of fraudulent fidelity guarantee instruments issued on behalf of Harken Energy from American International Group.

    Tri-Lateral Investment Group then sold bogus oil and gas leases to AIG. This is a direct fraud that George, Jr. profited to the extent of (not a lot) $1.6 or $1.7 million. But it was a clear out-and-out fraud.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:12 PM
    Response to Reply #90
    122. The Greenberg Family
    Just as a reminder:

  • American International Group = Maurice "Hank" Greenberg
  • Marsh & McLennan = Jeffrey Greenberg
  • Ace = Evan Greenberg
  • Bear Stearns = Alan Greenberg
  • Kroll always had AIG as shareholder and is currently part of Marsh.

    Alan is nicknamed Ace but Ace is owned by Evan. During Enron the gentleman did some revolving chairs as well. As mentioned above: They are partners in fraud with the Bush family.

    Jeffrey Greenberg
    Jeffrey W. Greenberg is the former chairman and CEO of Marsh & McLennan Companies. His father is Maurice Greenberg, former chairman and CEO of AIG, and Director Emeritus and Honorary Vice Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). His brother is Evan Greenberg, president and CEO of ACE Limited. Jeffrey Greenberg is also a member of the CFR and serves as a trustee of the Brookings Institution.

    Maurice Greenberg
    Maurice R. "Hank" Greenberg, "ranked 132 in the world and 59th in the US with assets of $3.1 billion," was forced out as Chairman of top insurance company American International Group (AIG) after the company "admitted to $1.7 billion in improper accounting." In Spring 2005, "two of Greenberg's sons, both executives in the insurance business, have also been tarnished by scandal." (1)

    He is also a member on the Council on Foreign Relations. His son Evan Greenberg is the CEO of ACE. His son Jeffrey Greenberg is CEO of Marsh and Alan Greenberg is CEO of Bear Stearns. A family that preys together, stays together.

    Greenberg is well-known in Washington where he known for raising large amounts of money. Greenberg was one of the President George W. Bush's 'Rangers' which means he personally raked in more than $200,000 for the reelection campaign. At the same time, he is also known for his access to members of the cabinet and Congress. This access has paid-off as the administration has often supported Greenberg on a number of issues ranging from access to China to terrorism insurance (1)

    * Chairman, Nixon Center (2)
    "Greenberg and AIG have further expanded their reach through the use of the $5 billion Starr Foundation, named after the founder of the company Cornelius Vander Starr. It supports influential groups such as the Council on Foreign Relations and the National Chamber Foundation, associated with the US Chamber of Commerce," (1)


    Evan Greenberg
    Evan Greenberg is President and CEO of ACE Limited. He is the son of Maurice Greenberg.

  • 1997-2000: Serves as president and COO of AIG.
  • 2001: Vice chairman of Ace Limited; CEO of ACE Tempest Re.
  • 2002: CEO of ACE Overseas General.
  • 2003: President and chief operating officer of ACE Limited; chairman of ACE Tempest Re.
  • 2004: President and chief executive officer, ACE Limited.

    Member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

    Alan Greenberg
    Alan "Ace" Greenberg was the former CEO of Bear Stearns and still serving as chairman of the boards. He is the son of Maurice Greenberg of AIG.

    Dubbed one of the shrewdest players on Wall Street, Alan Greenberg was born in Wichita, Kansas in 1927. Greenberg describes his family as close-knit. When Greenberg was 31, he was named a partner of Bear Stearns. In 1978, Greenberg was named chief executive officer of the firm. He continued to expand the business, finally taking it public in 1985. Greenberg was named chairman and CEO. Today, Greenberg retains the title of chairman of the board and chairman of the executive committee.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 12:20 PM
    Response to Original message
    60. No plane at WTC 2 either
    spooked911 (1000+ posts)
    Fakity Fake 2nd Hit Footage

    Check out this seriously bizarre supposedly "live" footage from the morning of 9/11.

    The most telling thing about the clip is the consecutive series of zoom-ins (four zoom-ins) right before the plane comes in-- the opening very wide shot shows no plane but when they finally zoom in very tight on the towers, all of a sudden the plane appears!

    I think this is pretty good proof that the second plane was a digital fake. The plane SHOULD have been seen in the wide shot-- it only magically appears in the last tight zoom-in.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 06:32 AM
    Response to Reply #60
    62. Part about the planes/missiles
    Edited on Sun Jun-25-06 07:15 AM by DrDebug
    Given the extremely unlikely coincidence that one of the main players occupied WTC1 at the exact point of impact and also had an office in the top floor of the impact at WTC2, the planes become optional since it is no longer a requirement and it could be an inside job with explosion since they had full access to WTC1 and could have worked their way down from WTC2 and maybe had access to Fuji bank as well who was the main occupant at WTC2's point of impact.

    If it was an inside job, the planes could have been added as part of the overall plan of deceipt and would have increased the likelyhood of installing a massive trauma in the minds of people which was one of the major objectives and they already had a team of Arab pilots working on their al-Cokeda team.

    Let me stress that the planes/missiles are optional. They could have fitted some sort of "plane magnet" in WTC1 and WTC2 as well, thus ensuring the exact point of impact, however no planes would have been the easiest plan as far as success rate goes and there is photographic evidence to suggest that the planes have been added to the pictures electronically and there are plenty of people here who follow the no planes option as a result.

    The Pentagon footage is very unclear and doesn't show any plane or missile which is another clue.

    A fourth clue is that there was a plume of smoke at the Eisenhower Building and there was also massive inside trading on KLM who didn't participate. Maybe the Eisenhower building was part of the overall operation, however it failed and was forgotten about.

    Attacks on U.S. Change Life at NIH
    By Rich McManus
    Photos by Rich McManus, Bill Branson, Lew Bass

    On the Front Page...

    The transition from peacetime's reliable routine to wartime anxiety took place in only minutes as NIH employees came to work on an otherwise spectacular late summer morning Sept. 11 and discovered by 9:45 via office televisions, radio, the web, phone calls and hallway conversations that terrorism on an almost unimaginable scale was taking place in New York City and in the heart of Washington, D.C. The workday froze as workers tuned in to the news the World Trade Center towers in flames, and smoke rising from behind the Old Executive Office building near the White House.

    And some other clippings about the Old Executive Office:
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    Ferry Fey Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 09:50 PM
    Response to Reply #62
    73. Smoke rising from behind the Old Executive Office Building?
    Has someone confirmed that the reports of smoke rising from behind the Old Executive Office building near the White House were consistent with the statements of the positions given (if any?) of those reporting it?

    Where would someone have to be to have the smoke reported be something other than the Pentagon? Surely there is only a fairly narrow angle where the Old Executive Office Building would eclipse the Pentagon.

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 04:10 AM
    Response to Reply #73
    74. I've kicked the post about the Eisenhower building to page 1 again
    It was also reported by ABC news and there was video footage of the plume. Sadly the footage is not available in electronic form. At least I haven't been able to find it. ABC deleted the transcript as well for some odd reason. Luckily somebody saved it, so we still have it and some other people who said the same thing.

    It's one of those interesting angles which haven't been investigated yet.
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    Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 03:21 PM
    Response to Reply #74
    80. That building is pretty big
    If one were right in front of the White House, it would be between oneself and the river. Don't believe me, look at a map.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 04:33 PM
    Response to Reply #80
    82. That is what makes it strange. There is no report of damage
    Only some reports about a plume of smoke.
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    Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 06:28 PM
    Response to Reply #82
    85. From the Pentagon.
    The Pentagon is across the river from the White House. If you were to stand on the front lawn of the White House, the big gray building (and the Potomac) would be between you and the Pentagon.

    If you were to look at a map of DC, it would become clearer.

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    Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:28 AM
    Response to Reply #60
    88. Deleted message
    Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
    Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:02 PM
    Response to Reply #88
    92. Deleted message
    Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:47 PM
    Response to Reply #92
    97. Don't know, but check passenger lists, WTC occupation lists etc.
    These thing will probably turn up many anomalies which helps to explain what subgoals there are. The main goals are:
    1. Enabling the war in Afghanistan
    2. Bush administration gets an enormous popularity gain
    3. Enabling Homeland security
    4. Oil and drugs in Afghanistan
    5. Massive insurance fraud
    6. Add later: War in Iraq (not part of the original plan. See: )

    But there have been many dirty sub goals in this story:
    1. Making Silverstream software the standard risk software by inviting all experts over the whole world to Windows of the World.
    2. Cantor/eSpeed was the #1 company in their field and suddenly Kyoto Mo takes over.
    3. Some of the companies who survived were in some of problem which gets solved.
    4. The missing trillions of the Pentagon
    5. Massive destruction of evidence in Enron and many other scandals
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:49 PM
    Response to Reply #60
    138. Airlines + Boeing (inside traitors)
    The cute part is that they are #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5 airline. Is this a cartel as well?

    Air France-KLM (Northwest)
    Northwest Airlines is a subdivision of Air France-KLM. The Northwest division is an airline headquartered in Eagan, Minnesota, with three major hubs in the United States: Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport, Minneapolis- Saint Paul International Airport, and Memphis International Airport. Northwest also operates flights from a hub in Asia at Narita International Airport near Tokyo and also operates transatlantic and Asian flights in cooperation with partner KLM from Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam. (1) Air France-KLM is since their merger - after 9/11 - the largest airline in the world in terms of revenue.

    Even though their planes did not participate in 9/11 there was massive inside trading on both Northwest and KLM and they themselves have been named as one of the participants. Was Northwest supposed to have a hijacked plane as well?


    American Airlines
    American Airlines is the largest airline in the world in terms of total passengers transported and fleet size, and the second-largest airline in the world (behind Air France-KLM) in terms of total operating revenues. A subsidiary of the AMR Corporation, the airline is headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas, adjacent to the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport. American operates scheduled flights throughout the United States, as well as flights to Canada, Latin America, the Caribbean, Western Europe, Japan, China, and India. The chairman and CEO of AA is Gerard Arpey. In 2005, the airline netted over 98 million RPMs. (1)

    More than 25% of American Airlines is owned by Axa SA, the #2 global insurer (AIG is #3)

    Crandall left the company in 1998 and was replaced by Donald J. Carty, who negotiated the purchase of Trans World Airlines and its hub in St. Louis in April 2001. (1)

    American Airline was trading at 60x times the usual amount pre-9/11 (2) and was named as one of the 9/11 inside traders. Two American Airlines aircraft were alledgely hijacked and crashed during the September 11, 2001 attacks: Flight 77 (a Boeing 757) and Flight 11 (a Boeing 767)

    Flight 77 alledgely crashed into the Pentagon after making an acrobatic turn of 270 degrees at full throttle by an incompetent drug runner.

    Flight 11 alledgely crashed into WTC1 and knew exactly what floors to hit as well since Mohammed Atta managed to park the plane right at our prime suspect Marsh.

    In the wake of the TWA merger and the roughly concurrent September 11, 2001 attacks (which claimed two of AA's aircraft), American began losing money. Carty negotiated new wage and benefit agreements with the airline's labor unions, but was forced to resign after union leaders discovered that Carty was planning to award handsome executive compensation packages at the same time. St. Louis' hub was also downsized afterwards. (1)


    Southwest Airlines
    Southwest Airlines, Inc (NYSE: LUV), based in Dallas, Texas, is an airline in the United States. It is the third-largest airline in the world, as measured in number of passengers carried, and the largest with destinations exclusively in the United States and the fourth-largest measured by revenue.

    Southwest Airlines was one of the pre-9/11 inside traders. The company was not mentioned in put options.

    United Airlines
    United Airlines, the primary subsidiary of the UAL Corporation, is a major airline of the United States headquartered in unincorporated Elk Grove Township, Illinois, near Chicago's O'Hare International Airport, the airline's largest traffic hub, with 650 daily departures.

    As of December 31, 2005, United is the world's second-largest airline in terms of revenue- passenger-kilometers (behind American Airlines), third-largest in terms of total operating revenues (behind Air France-KLM and American Airlines), and fourth-largest airline in terms of total passengers transported (behind American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and Southwest Airlines). United has roughly 54,000 employees and operates approximately 460 aircrafts.

    Operation Bojinka
    Operation Bojinka, Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Sheik Mohammed's plot against a large number of airliners targeted eight United aircraft flying transpacific routes on January 21, 1995. While this attack was prevented by an apartment fire in Manila, a "descendant" of the project perfected by Sheik Mohammed would cause death on United aircraft six years later.

    Before 9/11 United Airlines was the most heavily traded stock inside trading at 285x the norm. United themselves were named as one of the participants by the SEC.

    As part of the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack, two United Airlines planes alledgely were hijacked, a Boeing 767-222 (Flight 175) that crashed into WTC2 in New York City, and a Boeing 757-222 (Flight 93) that alledgely crashed in rural Pennsylvania even though it left a very weird crater and the timing doesn't make sense. The latter was claimed by the Bush administration to have been directed towards either the White House or the United States Capitol building.

    In 2001, the company lost $2.14 billion on revenues of $16.14 billion and applied for a $1.5 billion loan guarantee from the federal Air Transportation Stabilization Board established in the wake of the September 11 attacks. When the application was rejected in late 2002, the company was forced to seek debtor- in-possession financing from commercial sources to cover the expected future losses.

    Derived from:

    US Airways
    US Airways is an airline based in Tempe, Arizona, owned by US Airways Group, Inc.. As of May 2006, the combined airline is the fifth largest airline in the United States and has a fleet of 358 mainline jet aircraft and 295 express aircraft connecting 237 destinations in North America, Central America, the Caribbean, Hawaii, and Europe.

    US Airways was listed as one of the pre-9/11 inside traders, but the company itself was not subject to excessive put options.

    The Boeing Company is the worlds largest aircraft manufacturer. Headquartered in Chicago, Illinois, Boeing is the second-largest defense contractor in the world. (1) In 2005, the company was the worlds largest civil aircraft manufacturer in terms of value (with 49% of orders and 45% of deliveries), overtaking Airbus for the first time since 2000. The largest exporter in the United States, Boeings stock is a component of the Dow Jones Industrial Average. (2)

    Boeing was named as one of the companies involved in 9/11 insider trading. On 9/11 four Boeings were lost, however they were all unscheduled planes.

    Boeing had a small office in WTC1, however it is unclear how big it was and probably very small and nothing is known about happened to that office and the people inside.

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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 12:25 AM
    Response to Reply #60
    142. The helicopters and what looks like another plane in the
    background. but no air force. unbefrigginbelievable.
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    tyrauber Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 04:11 PM
    Response to Original message
    93. Introduction

    My name is Ty Rauber. I am one of the filmmakers behind WKJO. I stumbled upon this forum discussion regarding the film and thought it was time I introduced myself.

    I want to thank all- especially DrDebug - for taking the initiative upon himself to chase this ugly rabbit down the hole.

    Ryan and I chased it as far as we could. After nearly five years of research, production and post-production, the process left us drained. As a result, we published the film on the Internet under the Creative Commons license in Nov. 2005. We figured anyone who wanted it, would find it and could have it for all we cared.

    There it sat, gathering about 50 hits a day, until it was "discovered" on May 28th, 2006. Since then, has gotten over 70,000 hits. The movie was uploaded to google video, you tube and bit torrent - not by us mind you, but by fans. It has been publicly screened 3 times- that I am aware of- and there is already a Dutch translation, with German, French and Spanish on the way.

    Needless to say, this was wholly unexpected by Ryan and I, and we are doing our best to keep up.

    I will do my best to comment on the relevant information posted below.

    If anyone has a specific question, feel free to email me directly.

    Best Wishes to All,

    Ty Rauber

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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 03:59 AM
    Response to Reply #93
    105. Welcome to DU
    You are very talented.
    I saw that your video was made a few years ago and was surprised, because I had not heard of it, but now there is a lot of buzz.
    I wish there was some way of getting these companies investigated, they are just criminal enterprises nothing more. I feel like we are living in a lawless country for the controlling minority.

    I've suspected involvement on some level from these companies on 9-11 after I started reading that they had lawsuits against them. Then to see that most of the anchor tenants in the WTC were involved in some kind of fraud or other illegal activity, it was too much of a coincidence.
    Who do you see as being more involved in this, corporations or government/ military related? Or do you think they are intertwined?
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    Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:29 PM
    Response to Reply #93
    111. I am adding
    an additional welcome.

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    BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:03 AM
    Response to Reply #93
    123. xlnt
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:21 AM
    Response to Reply #123
    124. Welcome to the Dungeon as well
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    BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:47 PM
    Response to Reply #124
    136. thx
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    rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 04:34 AM
    Response to Original message
    130. One of the best 9-11 threads ever.
    Interesting how the OCT-ers avoid it.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 12:40 AM
    Response to Reply #130
    143. Yes, it's a refuge
    They haven't figured out how to make a straw man about Marsh and put it on "911Myths".
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    Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:01 AM
    Response to Original message
    131. Artistically
    the film is very well done.
    Only regret is that they could have gone much further (questioning the identities of the alleged hijackers etc).
    Somehow I'm to dumb to download the film. Everytime I click on download the film starts but not a download.
    Any help appreciated!
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:16 AM
    Response to Reply #131
    132. is the easiest
    Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 05:16 AM by DrDebug

    On the left side you have all kinds of different formats. MPEG4 or MPEG2 are the best formats of course and just "save target as..." MPEG2 is very big, but for MPEG4 you need the latest QT, Videolan, Media Player Classic etc. Maybe Microsoft has it currently, but they were always slow on the newest formats.

    There is a direct link to archive above as well, but that one was a quick copy and paste, so the URL is messed up. Either way the main site is better, since archive has auto-mirroring so if lots of people download it, it'll be mirrored to other servers as well.

    We are already taking this thing much further. I linked your double thread in al-Cokeda ( ) because that is about the drug dealing aspect and where the doubles probably fit in. This small post is just about WTC
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    Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 02:19 PM
    Response to Reply #132
    152. Thanks a lot!
    And btw whatever some weird people around here might say:
    You're doing a great job!

    Nonetheless I sucked. Didn't manage the download.
    It always starts the play right away in Quick Time Player (I've basically all players updated)
    ONly the 2.7 GB version is downloadable but somehow the sound is missing....
    I tried via 911blogger. There is a 240MB version but after the download QT says -2048 error....
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 02:42 PM
    Response to Reply #152
    153. Thanks
    Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 02:52 PM by DrDebug
    Well the weird people tend to ignore me. I personally think that I've documented enough for now and most of the story is clear to me, so it is time for some other things and somehow politics doesn't interest that much after this :lol:

    I downloaded the 240 Mb version as well, however that's too big to put online anywhere.

    Anyway you are probably smart enough to get the story line, because my journal is more or less based on his video and then some more and more etc.
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    Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 03:17 PM
    Response to Reply #153
    155. Don't worry
    I've seen the film online. Only was looking for a way to have it on my computer.
    So no big deal!
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:30 PM
    Response to Reply #131
    137. Yes, I'd like to see that all mapped out
    What did you think of the Atta/Barry Seal comparison? I think the expose on who Marsh McLennon & AIG REALLY are is news to most people. To me it was a new angle.
    I've a hard time with all the "hijacker" info because I don't know what is intelligence/law enforcement lies and what is real.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 01:22 AM
    Response to Original message
    144. Part II (Continuation of thread)
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    democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 08:59 AM
    Response to Reply #144
    145. kick
    This is an amazing thread!

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    petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 02:35 PM
    Response to Reply #145
    146. .. nt
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 02:44 PM
    Response to Reply #144
    154. Part III is out as well
    I tried to reconstruct the Towers in that post as well, so you can browse through the towers from that thing ;)

    The journal (7/7 edition):
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