Is LIHOP/MIHOP about to break wide open?

[tridim]

Due possibly to the Abromoff/gambling ship/Hijacker connections? Or maybe due to something new about to break? Or that the Dems are about to take over every committee chair and finally have the power to put together a real 9/11 investigation?

I ask because it seems like the fake media is really pushing the "tin-foilers are crazy" meme as of late. Why did they wait 5 years to start exploring this? Most of it has been related to the new(old) Pentagon video, but I've also seen a bunch of stuff about "Loose Change" et al lately. The media always says something like, "These Internet conspiracy sites are right to be skeptical due to lack of hard evidence, but the official story is definitely what really happened, trust us on that". It seems like these reports are at critical mass.. and I don't think they're using it just to scare the sheeple for the WH's benefit.

[smiley]

1. I've been getting the same idea

a big push to discredit internet sites that explore scenarios different from the official conspiracy story -19 hijackers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. . . .

:popcorn:

[tridim]

3. ...

:popcorn: here too.. I'm really interested what DU'ers have to say about this. Am I the only one who noticed this happening in the past two weeks?

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. I knew it!!

Moved to the 911 forum!!

[tridim]

27. At least I got an hour or so on GD

I posted this in GD precisely because it's quickly becoming a national (ouside the blogosphere) discussion.

Oh well, I knew it would be moved. No big deal.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. You lucky dog

I posted an article about a plane busted for smuggling cocaine into Florida and its connection to Tom DeLay. THAT got moved to 911 in about 5 minutes. I am still thinking WTF? since it had NOTHING to do with 911.

[libertypirate]

4. Well if this is any indication

http://video.google.com/videoranking

look at number 1 and number 10

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. It's called getting out in front of the story

which is one of Rove's specialties.

Problem though is that they are hurting themselves more then they are helping. Even my husband finally agrees that he doesn't see anything that can be identified has Flight 77 at the Pentagon and that the video is ridiculous.

A lot of new people down in the dungeon last week were saying the same thing. That up until now they didn't buy the conspiracy stuff, but after seeing the video they had changed their minds.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

6. It so happens that Loose Change is The Number One Video on

Google! They are getting scared silly!!!!

http://video.google.com/videoranking

Here is another one that has to get on their top 100

Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688

Or if you click at the link on the bottom of this post, there is a DU link to a downloaded version. I would love though that this gets rated up on Google.

[Mnemosyne]

53. Webcam Girls Go Wild - now at #1.

[NV Whino]

7. I don't think a change in regime is going to make a difference

It will be years before the truth is known, and it won't happen because some one (of either party) "investigates" it.

:tinfoilhat: :hide:

[mirandapriestly]

56. I think you're right, unfortunately.

The prominent democrats repeat the "pre 911 mindset" bs, I've noticed so that they don't look "weak". They are afraid of being labeled a nutcase, and unfortunately with the current power structure that 's exactly what would happen. It's not so out of the question to imagine get an independent investigation with a democrat though. If only..

[seemslikeadream]

8. First they ignore you

It is wrong to expect a reward for your struggles. The reward is the act of struggle itself, not what you win. Even though you can't expect to defeat the absurdity of the world, you must make that attempt. That's morality, that's religion. That's art. That's life.

[Sinti]

33. Love this post! :) n/t

[ThoughtCriminal]

9. Since 2001 I've noticed that about the only time they

discuss conspiracy theories, it has been limited to things like "missile pods on 757's", "Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon", etc. They do not like to talk about the failure of NORAD, the SEC whitewash of the put stock options, the lack of action by the Secret Service at Booker Elementary, or scores of other bizarre holes in the 9-11 story.

[enid602]

14. Cheney

There was no failure @ NORAD; Uncle Dick just happened to chose 9/11 as the date to divert NORAD by arranging top secret wargames. For more:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1694495

[AwakeAtLast]

10. The more you defend, the guiltier you look

without hard evidence anyway.

The more they have to talk about it, the more it is repeated to the sheeple. After hearing it over and over, people will start to do their own investigating. Just becuase someone lurks on DU or other websites does not necessarily make someone a freeper. I started out as a lurker just wanting information. Boy did I get it.

My point is that the more we keep the issues on the front burner, the more people will "stumble" upon the truth. It's happening, definitely.

:hi:

[tridim]

12. Yea, it does seem to be "happening" now.. Finally

What happens when a majority of the people don't believe the official Government story? Honestly, I haven't a clue what that means for a country that claims to be a Democracy.

Has anyone seen a poll on this subject?

[smiley]

15. I'm with you all the way on that

I've been coming to DU for about 2 years and I do a whole lot more lurking than posting. But I am definitely not a freeper. I'm a mihoper all the way. Felt that way since the morning of 9/11, but never did much looking into until right before the last prez election. I saw a flash video abut the pentagon and it dawned on me we had never been inundated with video like we were with the towers. 2 years later I am now more than ever convinced that 9/11 was not the work of 19 arab hijackers and the offical story and the lack of investigation by the MSM is a the biggest conspiracy ever put forth to the american public

[tridim]

19. I'm wondering if this is a "They can't handle the truth" type deal..

..and the media just figured out that not only can we handle the truth, we crave it.

[libodem]

11. I blame * and crew entirely

I doubt any of this would have happened if Gore had gotten in. I suspect that the attacks were a personal vendetta against the * administration. I also think they were aided and abetted by spy spooks in the US. The * admin. needed another 'Pearl Harbor' to rally the public, to create the Patriot Act, and to hide anything they wanted to under the cover of national security. They have gutted the CIA in part to help keep them from being exposed. Sybil Edmonds still has a lot to tell. There is more to this story than meets the eye. This is the biggest bunch of crooks to have public office in history. I don't care if I sound like a nut. And I am aware my bias sounds far-fetched...but I'm entitled to my opinion.

[coalition_unwilling]

44. I consider myself agnostic on the official narrative vs.

LIHOP\MIHOP iterations. I would agree with David Ray Griffin (at the end of "The New Pearl Harbor") where, instead of drawing firm conclusions about one or another LIHOP\MIHOP scenarios, he says we need a truly independent investigation, not the stage-managed puffery that constituted the official 9/11 commission.

[mirandapriestly]

57. I agree, (but I can't help speculating).

I don't see how ANYONE can say we don't need a new independent investigation. I mean, even from the point of view of incompetency and responsibility for what happened.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. Nope.

[theHandpuppet]

22. Make that a pair of Nopes

Dream on, folks.

[tridim]

26. I'm not dreaming this..

This is being talked about outside of the blogs now. It's in the wild.

You express a common misconception.. I do NOT want LIHOP/MIHOP to be true, for the sake of the country. It's kind of like Rush Limbaugh claiming that the Democrats want Iraq to fail.

[Gabi Hayes]

16. well, my guess is something's up, after Wolfie showed those

clips of whatever hit the pentagon and said words to the effect that THIS should answer all the questions about what happened, and make any others unnecessary

anybody else hear that?

[Poppyseedman]

17. The LIHOP/MIHOP isn't about to break wide open

because bush had nothing to do with it. It will only continually discredit this site by making that ascertain

I know that goes against the orthodoxy of chimp being a cold blooded murderer willing to sacrifice thousands of American lives to bring about his fascist theocracy.

Bush may be many bad things, mostly politically, but he didn't LIHOP/MIHOP. Islamic religious fundamentalist fascist did it.

These posts are getting as bad as the wing nut sites claiming there was a Clinton Arkcancide hit list. Clinton had a list of people silenced to keep their dirty secrets hidden.

Geesh

[Cleita]

20. Arkancide has been disproved with investigations. LIHOP and MIHOP haven't

because there hasn't been a non-partisan investigation of it yet and BushCo are visibly uncomfortable with the idea.

[Poppyseedman]

28. 9/11 commission was partisan???

Seriously, 9/11 commission report pretty much told the story. It's actually a very good report.

They did leave out things and missed things, but it was partisan report with Richard Ben-Veniste, Jamie S. Gorelick, Slade Gorton, Bob Kerrey on the commission???

Let me guess they were compromised by BFEE???

[smiley]

30. keep up the good fight sir

and we will too

[Poppyseedman]

32. Who is "we"

Wondering

[petgoat]

36. "they were compromised by BFEE?"

The Dems covered up for Bubba and Tenet; the Repubs covered for W.

I bet there was a doubletalk point by point negotiation. "We won't investigate this
'poorly documented and patently ridiculous' notion and you won't investigate
that one."

If you think the 9CR was a good report just read THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT: A 571-Page Lie
by David Ray Griffin, Ph.D.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/571-page-lie.htm

[rman]

38. You must be kidding - not partisan, but conflict of interest on both sides

Owning stocks of oil/service corporations doing business in the Caspian basin.
$7 trillion worth of oil/gas over there.

The report left out more then it covers.

No WTC7
No whistleblowers
No US/Saudi/Terrorist money trail

[smiley]

29. I have to disagree

something is weird about 9/11. to many things do not add up. I do not believe bush himself planned 9/11. But I do believe that factions of our govt knew about impending attacks and possible aided this. And no I don't have proof - but I don't see proof that 19 hijackers did this either.

[coalition_unwilling]

54. Which conspiracy theory are you going to believe? The

official narrative posits a conspiracy of sorts, i.e., 19 hijackers, OBL, al quaida. Somehow, though, this official narrative is never tainted with the "conspiracy theory" label that the MSM attaches to all alternate hypotheses.

To me, the surest indicator of LIHOP\MIHOP possibility is that * sat in the classroom for at least 7 minutes after the Secret Service knew the WTC had been hit twice. *'s explanation was that he didn't want to freak out the children. But an equally plausible explanation may be that he and his Secret Service detail were secure in the knowlege that they would not be attacked, even though *'s location was a matter of public record.

Personally, I incline to a rogue operation within the U.S. intelligence establishment, one that had\has many layers (like those Russian dolls that nestle within one another). As soon as one explanation\cover story frays, the next cover story will be there ready for deployment.

[baron j]

61. Matryoshka:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matryoshka

[coalition_unwilling]

65. Link does not work. C an you give me a paraphrase?

[leesa]

35. It's hard to believe PNAC and Bush did it, isn't it? There is far more

evidence pointing to our government doing it than there is to the fantasy concocted by the White House. To me, it's hysterical that people would actually buy the flimsy conspiracy theory put out by the White House. Really comical! Doesn't make a bit of sense.

[Grateful for Hope]

37. To me

It's more than hysterical that people bought the "19 Islamic-Fascist with box-cutters" story -- it is pathetic.

[vincent_vega_lives]

42. In common with almost all conspiricy theories

The simple truth is just too hard to grasp. Large events require large elaborate plans and grand schemes.

People want to belive that.

[Grateful for Hope]

49. I would love to be able to think the way you do

But, I can't. It would be so much easier just to believe that our gov loves us and would never lie to us about something as profound as 9/11. How safe and secure this would make me feel.

Unfortunately, there are too many anomalies in the official story about that event, and too many subsequent lies about very important issues -- so much so, that I think that if one does not question, they do it at their own peril.

[vincent_vega_lives]

64. Well I hardly think that our Government

"loves us". All governments are grey bureaucratic bodies that seldom recognize the individual. The ones you have to watch out for the types that profess love for the people (like the "Dear Leader" of North Korea). I do believe the government is made up of average people who love their families, have the same problems, issues, concerns as everyone else. Does the US government lie? Not if it can help it. Do individuals lie? Certainly some people do. But for every asshat in the government there are at least two regular people who just want to do the best they can for their Country/community/family.

Yes that even goes for the CIA, NSA, Black Ops. Life seldom is a movie where the conspiracy theorists take the staring roll, with Hollywood villains cast in the roll of the Evil Government Agent.


If you have some practical experience that proves otherwise I would like to hear it. I for one speak from 13 years experience with certain types of Government agencies.

Oh and by the way, my job involves a certain amount of crisis analysis and management, much of what passes for critical thinking around here is severely lacking.

[Cleita]

18. It sure seems like discussions are popping up here and there

outside of DU. My congressional candidate even mentioned at one of our meetings that she's a tinfoil hatter. It hasn't broken out in the MSM yet but if it becomes widespread, they won't be able to ignore it.

[tridim]

23. It is breaking into MSM..

I've seen quick segments on CNN and MSNBC for the past week or two. CNN was just talking about it a few hours ago.

[vincent_vega_lives]

43. the Moon Landing Hoax CT

has been in the MSM for a long time now as well. I give this as much cred. For the most part it is the same crowd.

[stevietheman]

21. This happens while more and more people are coming to me...

with the suggestion that 9/11 was an inside job.

My official position is still that I'm seriously suspicious, but I'm intrigued by how many people are coming to these conclusions.

[earth mom]

24. Now that would be a good thing!

Wanna see all hell break loose in the good ole U. S. of A and impeachment offered up pronto?!

:evilgrin:

[Old and In the Way]

34. If they lied about the casus belli with Iraq, why should I believe them

on what happened on 9/11. The Commission was a joke. Since when do the suspects and those with motivation to cover-up get the chance to pick the committe heads, steer the direction to 'how we avoid future 9/11' (recommendations which they haven't bothered to implement), and get to appear together (Cheney/Bush) without being put under oath or testify in public?

[mirandapriestly]

59. Exactly, why don't people get that?

If they lied to start a war that cost thousands of Americans lives & caused hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, why is it so hard to believe that 9-11 was lie, too? Especially with all the holes in the OCT.

[leftofthedial]

39. yeah! and they're about to expose JFK's real killers too

at the heart of this country is a lie so foul that none of us could live with ourselves if we knew.

[rman]

40. You think so?

I suppose with "they" you don't mean the neofascists, and i don't see any other "they" gain enough traction any time soon to expose the foul lies you speak of - though there's nothing else i want more than that.

[leftofthedial]

41. MIHOP and JFK's assassination

(and any number of other crimes against humanity)

were all executed by the same cabal.

[rman]

45. I know,

I also know (or i think i do) the cabal is still in power. And although counter forces are increasing, it doesn't look like the cabal is losing ground yet. I'm afraid a lot is going to go down before they are disempowered.

[90-percent]

46. in a few months

We're mere months away from a full blown police state and then all 9/11 theories will be against the law.

If their plan was to destroy the constitution and turn America into a corpora-fascist state they are succeeding quite nicely.

there are so many implausibles and unanswered questions about 9/11. I think they are too stupid to have planned and scripted it, but they sure as hell are covering up SOMETHING. I think it has to do with a GWB order to the intelligence agencies to "stand down" on all investigations having to do with Saudi Arabia prior to 9/11, for fear of offending the GODS OF OIL.

-85% Jimmy

[vincent_vega_lives]

47. We have Always been months away from a facsist state

Since 1776. We survived a brutal, bloody Civil War that threatened to tear the nation assunder, a major World War where the constitution was all but abolished, and countless executive abuses that compromised the office of the President of the US.

I think we will make it to 2008.

[pauldp]

50. The question is will we make it through 2006

with an honest counting of our votes? Or do you think the whole Diebold/ES&S thing is a wacky conspiracy theory
crafted by moon hoax believers? Just asking because I think both lines of inquiry - 911 and the
electronic voting machine issue- are related in many ways.

[Grateful for Hope]

51. To my way of thinking

of course they are. I couldn't agree more.

[petgoat]

52. Stealing the 2004 election was necessary to prevent an

investigation of 9/11 and the other Bush crimes.

This is the way tyranny always works. Once the tyrants have committed
crimes in office, they are desperate to stay in power and thus avoid
accountability.

[pauldp]

55. Which is exactly why

they will try to steal the 2006 elections.
It could be argued that election reform is more important
than 911 truth because real election reform seems to be the only way we will get
people in office to conduct a real investigation.

The good news is that people are slowly waking up to the fact that
the e-machines ARE intentionally designed to help rig elections.
Hopefully it is not too little too late.

[mirandapriestly]

58. That's what I thought. That is why they had to steal it at any cost.nt

[rman]

48. Wouldn't surprise me one bit

It's kindof what i ment by the cabal "not losing ground".

[mirandapriestly]

60. How do you think they could accomplish fascism &

begin dismantling the constitution and yet not be competent/smart enough to plan/pull off 911? I think they are very competent at achieving their own goals , they have no desire to be the kind of competent that would accomplish a better country for it's citizens, those failures are not accidental, they didn't WANT to help people in Katrina, they don't want a gov't surplus, they don't want the war in Iraq to end, and they don't want all people to have jobs and get out of debt.

[90-percent]

62. re:

their competence is in destroying things, not creating things.

If we had to rely on this bunch to create things, we'd be as screwed as we currently are!

-85% Jimmy

[vincent_vega_lives]

63. I disagree

I think they are incompetent. You give them too much credit.

[petgoat]

66. Incompetence will be their defence to criminal charges. nt

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

67. I sense a new nervousness in corporate media. We'll see. nt.