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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 03:14 AM
Original message
Maybe Al Qaeda WAS Behind 9-11
Considering:

"...Further more he argued that there is no Al Qaida. According to Kaynak, Al Qaida is the name of the operation carried out by an intelligence service, which is CIAWith this operation an anti-Islam front among the peoples of the world is tried to be created."...
http://www.zaman.com/?bl=national&alt=&trh=20050815&hn=...

Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-05-25-assad_x.h...
5/25/2003
Quote:
Assad doubts existence of al-Qaeda
KUWAIT CITY (AP) - Syrian President Bashar Assad said in an interview published Sunday that he doubts the existence of al-Qaeda, the terror group blamed for the Sept. 11 attacks and recent strikes in Saudi Arabia and Morocco.

"Is there really an entity called al-Qaeda? Was it in Afghanistan? Does it exist now?" Assad asked, according to the Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Anba.

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=national&alt=&trh=20050815&hn=...
August 14, 2005
Quote:

Countries facing the al-Qaeda threat are awaiting the intelligence Turkish security is to provide. Amid the smoke from the fortuitous fire emerged the possibility that al-Qaeda may not be, strictly speaking, an organization but an element of an intelligence agency operation.

Turkish intelligence specialists agree that there is no such organization as al-Qaeda.

Rather, Al-Qaeda is the name of a secret service operation. The concept fighting terror is the background of the low-intensity-warfare conducted in the mono-polar world order. The subject of this strategy of tension is named as al-Qaeda.

Such speculation is popular among some in the Arab world who say Washington has manufactured or exaggerated the threat posed by al-Qaeda in order to paint Muslims as dangerous.

http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=1604
2005-08-01
Quote:
There is no Terrorist Organization Called Al Qaida

Nese Dzel from Radikal (a Turkish newspaper) asked this question and more on Al Qaida to Mahir Kaynak, a former academic and a former intelligence officer. He has suggested different and debateful views, which will be summarized in this article.


Further more he argued that there is no Al Qaida. According to Kaynak, Al Qaida is the name of the operation carried out by an intelligence service, which is CIAWith this operation an anti-Islam front among the peoples of the world is tried to be created.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,13279...
Friday October 15, 2004
Quote:
The Power of Nightmares seeks to overturn much of what is widely believed about Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida.

The latter, it argues, is not an organised international network.

It does not have members or a leader.
It does not have "sleeper cells".
It does not have an overall strategy.
In fact, it barely exists at all, except as an idea about cleansing a corrupt world through religious violence.


Talibans
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2897137.stm
Quote:
According to Dadullah, al-Qaeda did
not exist in Afghanistan and he said he did not know
the fate or whereabouts of Osama bin-Laden.



http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101/397/13821_AlQae...
08/19/2004
Quote:

Al Qaeda does not exist and never has

The basic truth is that Al Qaeda does not exist and never has. Al Qaeda is a manufactured enemy who was created by the Bush Administration in order to have an excuse to wage a war for the control of the world"s oil resources.

Sorry this is in Norwegian but he basically says Al Qaeda is an American invention:
Norwegian professor Johan Galtung
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article396241.e...
Quote:
- Al-Qaida er en amerikansk fiksjon

Terrororganisasjonen Al-Qaida er noe USA har
funnet p, mener den omstridte fredsforskeren
Johan Galtung.

- Etter min vurdering er al-Qaida noe Washington
har funnet p, en typisk Pentagon-projeksjon,
sier Galtung.

P sprsml fra Spiegel Online om han virkelig mener
at al-Qaida ikke eksisterer, svarer Galtung at Vestens
forestilling om organisasjonen er gal.

- Men det finnes en stor kraft, som stort sett er
organisert i celler, som i Hamburg, og som holdes
sammen gjennom troen, sier han.



Indonesian Bashir
http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=3054299
Quote:
Bashir selv skylder p CIA og USA for
st bak angrepet mot Bali.
Han benekter ogs at gruppene Jemaah
Islamiyah og al-Qaida eksisterer.


http://www.gsmpro.com/article/articledt.asp?hArticleId=...
Quote:
Bashir on Friday accused the United States of inventing both al-Qaida and Jemaah Islamiyah to portray Muslims as terrorists.


Qazi Hussain, member of Parliament in Pakistan
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/politikk/articl...
Quote:
Qazi Hussain har kritisert den pakistanske regjerings samarbeid med USA i kampen mot Taliban-regimet i Afghanistan. Han har snakket pent om Taliban-ledelsen og Osama bin Laden og benektet eksistensen av terrornettverket Al-Qaida.


http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/qazi021013.html
Quote:
Qazi Hussain Ahmed :
I've never been sure whether the so-called Al-Qaeda has ever even existed.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Ian Blair, London, United Kingdom

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162476,00.html
Quote:

July 15, 2005

Commenting on the possible role of Al Qaeda, Blair said, " Al Qaeda is not an organization . Al Qaeda is a way of working ... but this has the hallmark of that approach."




This link needs registration to be followed:
http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/103002...021030082....
October 29, 2002
Quote:
''Al-Qaida is not an organization anymore, it is
a concept,'' said Jordanian political analyst Labib Kamhawi.
''There is a lot of appeal for the concept itself.''

''On balance, I would be surprised if there wasn't any
foreign participation,'' he said. ''Al-Qaida does not have
membership cards, and as such, linkages can occur
on many different levels.''

(Thanks to Let's Roll 9-11 for links)
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hence Lihop... n/t

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Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Mutual Exclusivity not Required
I don't believe that AQ really exists (and certainly not in the form it is sold to us as by BushCo).

But I also believe that terrorists perpetrated 9/11.

It is perfectly possible for both propositions to be true.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It is very easy
to recruit angry young men to carry out acts of violence.

However, when it is your own government that is behind these acts of violence, then we have a serious problem.

One more log for treason pile.

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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. Subverting "Terrorism" - Nafeez Ahmed.
http://www.gnn.tv/B12624

My argument is not that there are no violent interpretations of Islam within the Muslim world that might be seen to endorse terrorism. Of course there are. And my argument is not that the Wests imperial role in the Muslim world should be ignored. Certainly, it should not. Rather, my argument is that when international terrorism is scrutinized impartially, scientifically, the conventional understanding of its supposed inextricable origination in the dynamics of radical Islamism is fundamentally weakened in surprising ways.

The evidence that 9/11 was the result of a distinctly radical Islamist plan is highly questionable. The nature of al-Qaeda as a distinctly radical Islamist organization is also questionable. Finally, compelling evidence that identifiable groups involved in terrorist activity around the world are, in fact, manipulated on behalf of entirely non-Islamist Western geostrategic interests challenges the entire official narrative of the War on Terror.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Madrid Bombing: No "al-Qaida" link.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. London: 7/7: No "Al-Qaeda" LInk.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Yes, the same thing happened in N. Ireland.
The British govt had agents within the IRA, at least one was a bomb-maker.

The US and UK are pastmasters at playing both sides against each other.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. This information is beginning to bubble to the surface.
Apparently even Canada couldn't resist the lure of Agent Provacteurism.

It seems the RCMP had heavily infiltrated the FLQ, and encouraged the members of FLQ to be more radical than just "blowing up mailboxes".

"On Oct. 5, 1970, members of the FLQ kidnapped British diplomat James Cross. The Mounties had thoroughly infiltrated the organization years earlier, yet the situation was not deemed sufficiently urgent to prevent Premier Robert Bourassa from flying to New York to woo American investors. However, with the kidnapping of Pierre Laporte (and two days before his murder), things took on a feverish quality.

Suddenly Bourassa, Montreal mayor Jean Drapeau and the director of the Montreal police were all writing letters to Ottawa recommending emergency powers. Jean Marchand, Trudeau's cabinet minister, claimed there were 3,000 heavily armed terrorists in Quebec, with hundreds of pounds of dynamite stashed away, who planned to establish a provisional government. (Never shy about maximizing a political advantage, Drapeau chimed in with something to the effect that his opponents in the municipal elections were a front for the FLQ.)

One has to wonder: What new intelligence (if that's the word) initiated the transition from what was calmly perceived as a desperate gesture on the part of a marginal group, to outright hysteria? Where could it have come from if not the RCMP?

I was in Vancouver at the time, where the only whiff we got of the War Measures Act was a threat on the part of our mayor to impose compulsory haircuts on hippies; still, it does point to a certain capriciousness about how the measures were interpreted. My friend with theatrical ties to Che Guevara remembers an OPP cruiser at the bottom of his driveway outside Brussels, Ont. (that hive of political unrest), questioning anyone who came in or out. Obviously, neither of the above intrusions can be blamed on Trudeau; rather, they seem symptomatic of a tier of flaky Canadian officials in a state of panic, acting out their badly informed predilections."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/series/trudeau/jmgrayday...

And it only gets worse. At this point there is not much info online about the assassination of an FLQ member in Paris, staged as an inter-FLQ shootout, by the RCMP.

But it happened.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. No "Zarqawi"?
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Good find, here's a hilarious lie:
"In 2004, we intercepted a letter from Zarqawi to Osama bin Laden. In it, Zarqawi expressed his concern about "the gap that will emerge between us and the people of the land." He declared "democracy is coming." He went on to say, this will mean "suffocation" for the terrorists. Zarqawi laid out his strategy to stop democracy from taking root in Iraq."
Bush said these words on the same day the Post story identified this letter as the product of an American psyops team!
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. The 2 most powerful men in Saudi Arabia say 95 % of 9/11 done by........
Edited on Sun Apr-16-06 08:54 AM by seatnineb
Saudi Arabia, on Saudi television, Crown Prince(now King) Abdullah told a strikingly different story about who was to blame.

NBC News translated Abdullah's remarks from Arabic: Zionism is behind it. It has become clear now. It has become clear to us. I dont say, I mean... It is not 100 percent, but 95 percent that the Zionist hands are behind what happened.

Prince Nayef, the Saudi Interior Minister said, Al-Qaida is backed by Israel and Zionism.

As for the alleged Saudi doublespeak, a Saudi official in the United States defends the remarks, arguing that Zionists and others who argue for regime change in Saudi Arabia share the same objective as Osama bin Laden.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5218227 /

The question is why Bush has thus far not reprimanded his mate Abdullah for this powerful remark!


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Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hang on
Just because AQ doesn't exist doesn't mean that militant Islamists didn't carry out the 9/11 attacks.

The posts above seeking to disprove the existance of AQ actually bolsters the view that 9/11 was the work of 19 radicalised Muslim extremists.

As the msnbc link posted above shows, there was no AQ link in the Madrid bomings and there was no AQ link in the London bombings either. But both events were clearly carried out by radicalised Muslim men. The identities of the perpetrators of these outrages are not a matter of debate.

And it was just such a shadowy, under-the-radar cell that perped 9/11. ("Shadowy" notwithstanding the inexplicable incompetence of the Federal governemnt pre-9/11).

I don't buy the ludicrous notion that OBL is sitting in a cave directing AQ operations, but neither do I accept that there are no terrorists.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. well, more like Al Qaeda does exist
Edited on Sun Apr-16-06 12:18 PM by mirandapriestly
but it is a CIA creation. Oh, and ISI (which is also CIA).
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Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes, quite right Miranda
Although more likely again I suppose is that it is a grotesque mutant, born of a marriage of convenience between CIA, ISI and a rabble of disgruntled mujahadeen. A cosy little terror brand that served the reprehensible ends of each side very nicely indeed.

Dirty bastards.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. But would the "terrorists" in such an arrangement be willing to die?
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 03:19 AM by mirandapriestly
I could see them going along with it up to a point, but not if they were going to die a horrible death, especially since it seemed they were not devout, unless devout Muslims live with strippers, gamble, drink, do coke, slaughter kittens, etc....
So were they tricked? not thinking they would die, didn't more than one of them assure passengers that everything was going to be OK? (supposedly) or were the jets on "automatic pilot"?
But, "mutant Mongrel", yes, I think something like that is a great description and likely, the truth in a way, although I see US government involvement at more than the CIA level.
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. the "inexplicable incompetence"
Oh yes, the incompetence theory. The multi-trillion dollar military machine of the U.S. was broken by 19 Muslims with boxcutters. Right.
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Debunking911 Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. If you learn their history...
You could come away wit no other concusion. These people were perfect for the task starting with Bin Laden.

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/osama.htm
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. You are talkin' crap............
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 11:30 AM by seatnineb
In the words of Debunking911

Conspiracy theorist like to say "Some Arabs with box cutters couldn't have pulled this off." Lets forget for a minute how racist that statement is. (Arabs can do anything Americans can do) The fact is they were the perfect ones to pull this off.

The above is the biggest sack of horse shit I have ever read.........

The question is not so much as to whether the Arabs could have pulled it off.......as to WHY these same Arabs would want to pull this off

What did they stand to gain?


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Debunking911 Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Did you not read the page?
These guys held off the invading USSR using the same tactics. For every dollar he spent on blowing something up he knew we would spend millions preventing another. This is as old a tactic as the middle east itself. It's called "Death by a thousand cuts" He thinks he can bleed us until the average American put pressure on our elected leaders to pressure Israel into getting out of the occupied territories and stop killing Palestinians. That's his simple goal.

You may not think it's good enough but not only does he have a motive, he also had years of experience and at the time, millions to do it...

1) Arabs can keep a secret just like Americans. Maybe better since the spying on Americans, Wilson's wife and downing street memo scandals, just to name a few, show how much we can keep a secret.

2) Bin Laden has money

3) Bin Laden has a civil engineering DEGREE

4) The terrorist had pilot training enough to hold the stick straight and point it in the right direction. They didn't need to know how to take off, land or fly using instrumentation other than VOR.




I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of childrenalso in Iraqas Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq's oil and other outrages.

al-Qaida spent $500,000 on the event, while America, in the incident and its aftermath, lost - according to the lowest estimate - more than 500 billion dollars.

Meaning that every dollar of al-Qaida defeated a million dollars by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs.

As for the size of the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.

And even more dangerous and bitter for America is that the Mujahideen recently forced Bush to resort to emergency funds to continue the fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is evidence of the success of the bleed-until-bankruptcy planwith Allah's permission.



You may disagree with the reasons but to say he didn't have a motive flies in the face of this evidence. Everything he says in it happened. There is no evidence on the conspiracy theory side saying Bin Laden didn't say this other than two videos taken from very different distances showing a slightly chubbier Bin Laden. As if the image of a wide angle closeup is the same as one from a distance... That's hardly evidence.
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yeah I read it.........so?
Edited on Tue Apr-18-06 08:41 AM by seatnineb
I don't judge Osama by his words....I judge him by his actions........

And every action that Bin Laden has ever done over the last 25 years has directly or indirectly favoured individuals belonging to one U.S administration or another......(you can add Saudis and Pakistanis to that list)

You also forgot to mention the Jihadi textbooks that the University Of Nebraska had produced for the Pakistani Madrasses(where the exiled Afghnans studied;they would later become the Taliban) to the tune of $50 million over a period of 10 years(1984-1994)...spanning 3 U.S administrations..........funny.....because Bin Laden also forgets to mention this information......I wonder why.......

As for bleeding the Soviets dry.......

Was that not done on behalf of the U.S?

You honestly think that Bin Laden never at any point realised that by fighting and defeatin' the Soviets....he was actually doin' the U.S a favour.....

















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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. "inexplicable" indeed; unexplainable
because it's not incompetence.
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Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. And in any case
how does anyone explains with "al Qaeda was it" that Atta and other alleged hijackers had doubles in the US?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Notice how the trolls and debunkers stay away from the doubles

......research by the great John Doe II as if it were the plague itself!



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StrafingMoose Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. this organization is a big joke played by...
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 02:34 PM by StrafingMoose
the elite and intel agencies on all their people. I mean, come on, last November this supposed organization killed two high ranking Palestinian intelligence officers while killing a sheetload of Sunnis in Amman, at the same time saying they did that to avenge Iraqi Sunnis... sure... Worst thing is that they were perfectly following the official line of explanation trough their postings on "internet forums".


Hey, OBL, if you are REALLY working AGAINST US corporate interests, why don't you say BUSH did it? That'll stop the machine pretty quick!


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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. That's why some call it ALCIADA - hence MIHOP
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