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Oy. Is 911truth.org a leftwing-gatekeeper operation?

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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 10:21 AM
Original message
Oy. Is 911truth.org a leftwing-gatekeeper operation?
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/08/323457.shtml

"BOYCOTT 911truth.org's anniversary march on 9/11 in NYC and instead show up at GROUND ZERO only!

Start an independent investigation into 9/11truth.org, its financial
background and possible cointel-pro background ties!

Demand a clear opposition towards all gatekeepers, from the left and right!


BACKGROUND:
On September 11th, 2005, ny911truth.org, affiliated with 911truth.org is planning a march from Times Square to NY TIMES and the United Nations.

We urge every activists, especially in New York City to boycott this bogus march and show up at GROUND ZERO only. Bring your own leaflets, signs and banners and boycott this march.



Here is why real 9/11 truth activists should boycott the march and show up at GROUND ZERO during the whole day instead:


1)
The march is a setup:
911truth.org is calculative of the outcome. They pretend, that 10000 would show up, while realistically we should expect a few 100s on Times Square, which would look silly and disorganized.

Instead on the other hand the same number at the small spot of GROUND ZERO/Port Authority Place would look impressive.

Ask 911truth.org and ny911truth.org, why they don't wanna show up at GROUND ZERO?!

Don't get fooled by fake excuses ("missing permits", "we're there every week", "disrespectful against 9/11 family members" etc...) "

There is a lot more.

Read it and weep (for a lot of reasons).
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sad paranoia
Why are you reproducing Nico Haupt's attack bullshit?

This is modeled on COINTELPRO "snitch jacket" campaigns, in which everyone is made paranoid about everyone else being agents.

Simple logic:

There is no conflict between the Ground Zero ceremony action at 8 am and the Times Square action at 1pm.

Personally, I don't like the former idea because it's a families memorial and will be spun into "conspiracy fanatics v. mourning families." But the actual organizers of the two separate actions know each other and have agreed to live and let live.

Nico isn't organizing either action, and note that his long rant never specifies a time for a Ground Zero action. He is only trying to split people by pretending there is a conflict.

The publishers of this article are Wing-TV, who are in Texas and have no representatives or organization in New York. They know nothing about the people there.

The article has dozens of outrageous lies (it's looooong). It attacks about 30 people with innuendo, guilt by association, complete fabrications, incoherent logic, strawmen, etc. and paints the picture of nearly the whole 9/11 Truth movement as a conspiracy to suppress Nico Haupt's ideas.

I'll bother with only one of the many lies. 911Truth.org never got money from Soros or anyone like him, either directly or indirectly. In fact, Nico & Wing TV know 911Truth.org barely has any money at all, or they would shrink back from slander for fear of a lawsuit.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. You posted something similar-- I just thought people should know about
this.

Question: why IS 9/11truth.org broke?

Why cant you get more financial support?

Heck I've donated money and even got my mom to donate money to 9/11truth.org.

I can't believe there aren't a lot more people who would donate to the organization if you promoted yourself more.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. You're right
Well, for being broke, you gotta admit it's been a pretty damn active project for going on two years. A huge update is in the works.

But first, thank you and thank your mom!

That donate button is still there and you're right, we should promote ourselves more. You know, that's just what we were talking about.

We genuinely hate to do it via the "click here" method, because it's so prevalent & it invites accusations of tragedy-exploitation, etc.

Also, you may have noticed, whenever we promote anything, these crazy woodchucks come out and say Darth Vader is financing us and we're all war criminals, etc. etc. Of course, they have no problem promotin' their own videos, etc. etc.

But more promotion is coming.

---


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StrafingMoose Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Jees...his point about peak oil
Edited on Fri Aug-26-05 01:38 PM by StrafingMoose

While someone could question what Ruppert did with 9/11 (slamming it into Peak Oil, something that quite frankly Joe Sixpack can't do much about -- appart to go back to farmer life, even if true thus somehow stalling the investigative process) it IS still a real issue.

That's like saying your a fake 9/11 activist because you take the time to take a dump :\

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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yeah, I don't quite get the Peak Oil Psyops thing
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StrafingMoose Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. In some way it MIGHT be a diversion...
Edited on Fri Aug-26-05 01:54 PM by StrafingMoose
but what? He's telling me they're ready to crash the world's stock markets and all the oil companies (ie: the current USA administration) and roughly all of the world's economy to cover this up? (ie: Faking peak oil) He'd have to expose THAT conspiracy.


I mean, the oil companies are not finding any new "Saudi Arabias", for the last 30 years that is...



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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. well actually, I think the oil companies will do make out like bandits
with peak oil.

And the stock market and the US economy is hardly crashing because of Peak Oil, which is supposed to come any day now.

But if peak oil IS REAL, it will crash the world economy, pretty much.

Then the US would clean up. Or something like that.

I think Peak Oil is for the oligoarchs of the world, and controlling the popluation to some extent.

And Peak Oil is a diversion from investigating 9/11, because it gives people something new to worry about and also sort of lets the Bush administraiton off the hook since it is a plausible alibi for why they had to let/make 9/11 happen.



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Kevin Fenton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Peak oil
I keep hearing this peak oil thing, what is it actually?
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Basically the idea that world-wide oil production has peaked
and will harder and harder to obtain from the ground and thus more and more expenisve. In it's most extreme form, the peak oil theory says modern civilization will crash once the oil gets too scarce, and that much of the human race will die off as well.

It is very depressing.

Here are some links:

http://lifeaftertheoilcrash.net /
http://www.museletter.com/archive/159.html
http://www.peakoil.net /
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/040403_oil_wa...
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StrafingMoose Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. "much of the human race"



I'd say rather that it will come back to the world's population of the 50s for example. Where the Earth had 2/3 less "resource rapers" to support. As we used more oil, population grew which isn't natural and wise at all (it implies that the population surge was 'feeding' on oil, something that we can 'run out' of someday).

http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/worldpop.html

Hehe, this chart paints a rather bleak picture of the population growth to come: it steadily decreases from 2015... When Peak Oil will hit hard. Whether peak oil is a scam or not, these guys are prepared to make it hit hard.




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Kevin Fenton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-05 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Actually,
I'm reading "The End of Oil" by Paul Roberts at the moment.

I don't know about hydrogen-powered cars et al., but I occasionally do a little work for a company that makes rapeseed oil methyl ester, which can be mixed with diesel to reduce the amount of it burned by an internal combustion engine, thus reducing pollution and the amount of petroleum a country needs to import. The company claims that it can be mixed in any ratio up to 31 parts RME to 69 parts diesel. I guess it's possible to design different engines that can run on a different mix of RME and diesel with more RME. In addition, there are other biofuels that can be mixed with petrol (not diesel). The technology is available, in use and economical. It's just a question of growing the rapeseed and building processing plants. This, coupled with better fuel efficiency, could reduce fuel consumption by cars by up to 50%. I expect it won't be long before some countries start introducing mandatory bio-fuel mixing (even though the oil companies aren't keen on it) and that the mandatory percentage will climb over time.

Replacing oil (or hydrocarbons in general) as a source for generating electricity will be even easier.
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StrafingMoose Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I've read a bit about that too..


The problem is that at every ASPO conference, speakers will beg for people to contradict their data and gloomy assertions about what will peak oil look like when it hits. They don't get much counter argumentation, sadly :(

Another issue is that, how much rapeseed fields will we need to gradually take over oil and produce as much energy? Will we have to mow down fields that grow food for energy production? :\

Suppose we DO succeed in working 50 rapeseed oil/50 fossil, if that fossil fuel gets too hard to extract, that quality of it gets to low (too much sulfur, more energy to refine) and that in the end, Chevron ends up paying 1$ to extract a barrel of it, will it ever reach America?


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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. But crop-based fuels require a lot of petroleum for their production
It is not clear agricultural biofuel products truly create any new energy-- for instance ethanol from corn is not really practical without subsidies and a lot of petroleum products involved in the farming.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Peak Oil has been a driving force of PNAC & the admin. oil clique (n/t)
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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Do you know Colin Campbell?

I've seen Campbell, one of the top Peak Oil experts, on the net, speaking at a German university. He was absolutely brilliant and has convinced me completely that Peak Oil is coming soon. The speech was before 9/11, I think 2000 (have to check it out). He predicted military action for oil in the Middle East.

I'll try to find a link.

I think Ruppert had a good nose to pick up this subject. And I disagree with my friend Nico Haupt that Peak Oil is a scam.



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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes, I also think that Peak Oil is real
I think it will be bad, but maybe not so bad by itself. I think in one sense it may be a scam in that the peak oil excuse will be used by oligarchs/oil companies to screw over common folks with high oil prices. But certainly the science of the matter suggests peak oil is real and oil will get harder to get and this will be a huge problem for society.

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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Peak Oil can explain a lot of things--for instance why people who regard
themselves as patriots might consider 9/11 LIHOP or MIHOP to justify
invading Iraq, which is not just about Iraq but also about Saudi Arabia
and the rich oil reserves of the 'stans.

It would also explain the Democratic party apathy--the powers that be
have agreed that 9/11 and Iraq are necessary evils, and they've decided
to let a band of renegades who've hijacked the Republican party take the
historical rap for it.

Which is all a very paranoid and conspiracy-minded view of the world,
and I'm not saying I believe it, but it is consistent with the facts.
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StrafingMoose Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. End of Suburbia


http://www.endofsuburbia.com /

You guys probably all seen it, but it's hell of a primer for those who aren't used to the subject. They paint a bleak picture of it, without stretching it in the panic mode.

Has Campbell, Ruppert, Kenneth Duffeyes, etc.

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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I agree

with your analysis which is not paranoid at all (sadly).

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graphixtech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Announcements soon, on 911Truth
Edited on Fri Aug-26-05 10:33 PM by graphixtech
911Truth.org will be sending out an email of exciting
announcements and news updates within the next few days.
Please register at 911Truth.org.



http://911truth.org /



(from left: Peter Phillips, Ray McGovern, Sunny Miller, Nafeez Ahmed)
Photos, video, upcoming Convergence events:
http://www.truthemergency.us/index.html
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