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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 12:12 PM
Original message
Phantom Flight 11: summary of evidence

When the 9/11 Commission report was published, it revealed a big surprise: The so-called Phantom Flight 11. It was reported up to 45 minutes after the North Tower crash, "on its way to Washington".

The 9/11 Commission is positive this was an erroneous info: "We were unable to identify the source of this mistaken FAA information."

So who was thinking flight 11 was still airborne?

p. 21: 8:48: Air Controller (Dave Bottiglia), FAA manager (Mike McCormick) were watching Flight 11 on the radar screen:

At 8:48, while the controller was still trying to locate American 11, a NewYork Center manager provided the following report on a Command Centerteleconference about American 11:

Manager, New York Center: Okay. This is New York Center. We're watching the airplane. I also had conversation with American Airlines, and they've told us that they believe that one of their stewardesses was stabbed and that there are people in the cockpit that have control of the aircraft, and that's all the information they have right now.124

The New York Center controller and manager were unaware that American11 had already crashed.


p. 22: 8:55: Regional managers discussed the hijacked Flight 11 (surely NOT the plane that hit the North Tower - the connection was not established yet):

At about 8:55, the controller in charge notified New York Center manager that she believed United 175 had also been hijacked. The manager tried to notify the regional managers and was told that they were discussing a hijacked aircraft (presumably American 11) and refused to be disturbed.


p. 26: 9:21: Boston Center informs NEADS that Flight 11 is still airborne. The information came from FAA headquarters:

Two planes had struck the World Trade Center, and Boston Center had heard from FAA headquarters in Washington that American 11 was still airborne.


p. 37: The NMCC deputy director for operations, Charles Leidig, forwards news of the still airborne Flight 11 to a teleconference via a phone bridge:

Inside the NMCC, the deputy director for operations called for an all-purpose "significant event" conference. It began at 9:29, with a brief recap: two aircraft had struck the World Trade Center, there was a confirmed hijacking of American 11, and Otis fighters had been scrambled.The FAA was asked to provide an update, but the line was silent because the FAA had not been added to the call.A minute later, the deputy director stated that it had just been confirmed that American 11 was still airborne and heading toward D.C. He directed the transition to an air threat conference call. NORAD confirmed that American 11 was airborne and heading toward Washington, relaying the erroneous FAA information already mentioned.The call then ended, at about 9:34.


ALL this people were thinking that Flight 11 was still airborne after the North Tower crash, yet the Commission wants to make us believe this was just an "erroneous information" from FAA headquarters?

The phone bridges were established since 8:45. Enough time to correct the "erroneous information", if it was one in fact erroneous.






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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. It WAS just erroneous information.
Since no single controller was actually tracking the aircraft at the time, why would the assumption be that it had crashed?
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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. How do you know

that no controller was tracking Flight 11?

Considering the quotes, there must have been a controller tracking the plane.

He didn't appear on Brokaw's TV show, of course.



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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. You have evidence that the target was tracked without interruption?
I haven't seen any.
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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You change the subject - No need for "interruption"
Maybe the tracking of the plane was interrupted hundred times after crossing New York airspace. I don't know that. Given that the target was very probably tagged, this seems to be very unlikely.

But that's for sure: All the people I introduced in the thread starter were convinced that Flight 11 was still airborne after the North Tower crash. The fact that they were connected through a phone bridge makes the case even more solid.

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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. There is lots in the record documenting that the authorities were confused
as to what had happened to the planes and which of the planes might have hit which targets as late as 2:00 PM. Flights 11, 175, and 77 had done strange flight path deviations to cross paths and to travel near airports and to travel to areas where the FAA ATC regions changed, thus creating confusion as to which plane was which and whether some other plane had switched places with some of the planes, since the transponders were off so a switch could have been made between planes or with another plane without FAA knowing it
(one blip)

But no matter which of the planes was actually flying towards Washington, there was knowledge that some plane was flying towards D.C. for a long period of time, and all of the evidence and testimony indicates that in spite of this the plane was allowed to attack the Pentagon. Debating about which of the planes hit which target is mostly immaterial. Its clear that authorities had interceptors in position and sufficient warning to intercept the planes that hit WTC2 and the Pentagon.

As I've noted before, turning the transponders off and the flight path deviations that seem to be only to allow switching of planes is not something that Arab hijackers would want to do. It would only call attention to them, insure notification of NORAD, and make it unlikely their mission would succeed. I can think of no reason that Arab hijackers would have called attention to themselves and made sure that NORAD would surely have time to intercept them.




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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. There was prior knowlege of plans to attack WTC & Pentagon; and lots of
http://www.flcv.com/warnings.html

time for W.H./Pentagon to do something to protect the Capital Complex. It is known there were plenty of options to intercept the plane within the time they had to do something.

Its known that the W.H./Cheney/Military were in direct contact with FAA throughout the time period, and suggestions they didn't know what was going on with the flights is ludicrous.

The plane hit the Pentagon 1 hour and 35 minutes after Flight 11 was reported to be hijacked; 52 minutes after WTC1 was hit; 48 minutes after Flight 77 was reported by FAA to be off course and with no radio contact; and 42 minutes after a plane was reported to be headed towards D.C.

Interceptors can get from either Langley AFB or Andrews in less than 10 minutes, including lauch time. So what was going on?


http://www.flcv.com/offcom77.html
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