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Which Flight 77 Hijacker is "Mosear Caned"?

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RedSock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 03:57 PM
Original message
Which Flight 77 Hijacker is "Mosear Caned"?
On the morning of September 14, 2001, at about 10:11 am according to this CNN transcript, the official list of 18 hjackers was released.

Aired September 14, 2001 - 10:11 ET

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Folks, we are going to break into this press conference by the mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani, because we have some breaking news. Leon Harris here at the CNN Center in Atlanta, but we're going now to Washington D.C., where our Kelli Arena is standing by. She has got some breaking news on the identities of those 18 hijackers. Kelli, take it away.

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Leon, we did manage -- CNN managed to grab a list of the names of the 18 suspected hijackers that is supposed to be officially released by justice sometime later today. I will do my best to read, to read the names, some are a bit unfamiliar. On American flight 11, the first name Walid Al Shehhi (ph), the second, Wellal Sheyi (ph), also known as Wahidal Sheyi. ... third name, Mohammed Atta (ph). ... Abdul Ala Mari (ph) and Setam Segani (ph), Marwanal Shehhi on the list as well. They are looking an awful lot alike here, Leon. Marwan Al Shehhi, a UAE passport. Fayez Ahmed, Mahad Al Shari (ph), Hanza Al-Gari (ph), Amdad Al Dandi (ph). Let me stop here for a moment. We have a few more names to read. The way this is working out, there were five hijackers on two planes, four hijackers on two others. We are told by law enforcement sources that most of these names in some way connect in some way to indirectly or directly to Osama bin Laden.

Continuing on, united Airlines flight number 93, Almad Alhanawi (ph), Almed Alnami (ph), Ziad Girad (ph) and Sayd Algamdi (ph). American Airlines flight number 77. Cammid Al-Madar, and Mosear Caned (ph), Majar Mokhed (ph), Nawar Al Hazni (ph) and Salem Al Hazni (ph). ... Again, this list not officially released yet by the Justice Department. We obtained this list of name through sources -- Leon.

**************

Then (same day, a few hours later I believe) the FBI released a list of 19 hijackers, including:

American Airlines #77
1) Khalid Al-Midhar
2) Majed Moqed
3) Nawaq Alhamzi
4) Salem Alhamzi
5) Hani Hanjour - Believed to be a pilot.

***********

The phoentic spellings in the CNN transcript are a bit rough -- but they do match what was later released -- except "Mosear Caned" does not sound anything like "Hani Hanjour"!!

Why was this "Caned" guy replaced by Hanjour?
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John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for this finding n/t
:thumbsup:
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. There are already two problems with Hanjour
1. He couldn't fly a plane, yet is alleged to have piloted Flight 77 into the Pentagon

2. Two different security camera pictures of "him" show two different individuals

Seems like he was added as a replacement for Caned - why? Also, Mosear Caned doesn't sound Arab. Perhaps Jewish? Google and Lycos reveal that people who have the surname Mosear have first names like Chris, Thomas or David (actually , those three were the only examples I found). A search for Caned only brings up links to the preterite of the verb cane ("Caned girlfriend" etc.) Anyway, a Jewish hijacker is rather unlikely. Very strange.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. What security camera pictures are you talking about?
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Oh, come to think of it
that was perhaps Ziad Jarrah? I thought it was Hani Hanjour, it's been discussed in a thread here. Sorry, I'm not really sure anymore.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. No-- you had it right. That was Hani.
Edited on Mon Jun-13-05 11:23 AM by spooked911
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RedSock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. not the actual spelling
The transcript has phoentic spellings -- shown by the "(ph)" -- based on what the transcriber thought the reporter was saying.

It's not the actual spelling (mostly likely) of whatever was on the reporter's paper.

My point was that even if she had trouble with Hanjour's name, it would not have sounded anything like what was in the transcript.

Sounds like some changes were made in the list of hijackers.

And remember that on 9/12 or 9/13, Ashcroft was saying there were somewhere between 12 and 24 hijackers. If they thought at one point there might be 24, and then cut that number down to 18 or 19, what names that are on the announced manifests might have been confused as terrorist names?

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paulthompson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Interesting!
Judging from how off the spelling of the other names are, this name is probably a bit different, too. For one thing, the last name probably starts with a K, not a C (look at how they spell names like Khalid).

I know there were a few other Arab sounding names on some of the flights, like an Iskandar on flight 11. Is there any name on the manifest names for this flight sounding remotely like this?
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John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. No one
No name on flight manifest sounds remotely like this guy. The best I came is Norma Khan which is not really close.
Btw: according to your research: Do you consider Iskandar to have been really on the flight manifest of AA 11 or is he one of the eight names that there are too many (if you have a look at several manifests in different journals you have 100 names at the end and Iskandar is one that is not always mentioned).
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RedSock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Iskandar
Isn't there some story behind him too?

I recall he wasn't on early lists, but was added much later. Some connection to government, maybe? ...

I can't remember -- damn old age!!
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paulthompson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. If I recall...
Iskandar appears to have been a non-radical American Muslim who just unfortunately happened to be on one of those places. I think every plane had one or two of those. I imagine the FBI did some stereotyping and held back all those names for a while until they determined if they were terrorists or not.

I suspect this "Caned" name was Hani Hanjour's alias, which would explain why he was the last hijacker to be identified and his name wasn't on the manifest or boarding list. Or, to put it another way, he was the guy the FBI decided to call Hanjour - right or wrong?
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John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Mosear Caned
I had a look ono Lexis Nexis. There is no follow up on "Mosear Caned".
Besides CNN talks of 18 names but in fact they present 19.
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Kevin Fenton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. name
Options for first name:
Mansur
Mashhur
Masrur
Mazhar
Mihyar
Muhair
Musa

Got them here:
http://www.lebanesedoctors.com/Pages/BabyNames/BabyName...

Last name must be Khalid or Khaled.

How many lists do airlines have?
List of people paying for tickets
List of people who are expected to check in
List of people who actually checked in
List of people who handed over part of boarding card on boarding

The lists obviously don't have to have the same names.

OK, they didn't peg HH immediately, so what? But where did this Masrur Khalid disappear to?
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paulthompson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Could it be Mansour?
Perhaps, this guy? Just because his name here is given as Atif bin Mansour doesn't mean that's what his name would have been known as on the flight manifest or later. Arab Muslims generally have four names (or more!), and can use different combinations. A classic case is the hijacker:

Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi Banihammad Al-shehri

It seems every news account of him uses a different permutation. I have no idea what his "real" first and last names are, in his mind. Even Mohamed Atta's "real" last name is El Amir, and he only switched to using one of his middle names (Atta) as a de facto last name a couple of years before 9/11.

Here's a couple of entries I haven't posted up yet:

Late 1998-August 10, 1999
"Pakistani Air Force Pilot Temporarily Replaces Alshehhi as Atta's Roommate"
Hijacker Marwan Alshehhi moved to Bonn, Germany in 1996, and studied German there. He then lived in Hamburg for several months in 1998, and returned to Bonn after failing a language exam. Just as he left town, a Pakistani student named Atif bin Mansour arrives in Hamburg, and begins living and studying together with Mohammed Atta. Early in 1999, Mansour applies with Mohamed Atta for a room to hold a new Islamic study group. Mansour is a pilot on leave from the Pakistani Air Force. As the Los Angeles Times puts it, "This in itself is intriguing--a Pakistani pilot? Investigators acknowledge they haven't figured out Mansour's role in the plot, if any." On this day, Mansour's brother, also in the Pakistani armed forces, is killed when his surveillance plane is shot down by India. Mansour returns home and supposedly never comes back to Germany. Soon afterwards, Alshehhi returns to Hamburg. (Los Angeles Times, 9/1/02) In March 2001, Mohamed Atta applies together with a Pakistani Air Force pilot for a security job with Lufthansa Airlines. This pilot is a member of the same Islamic study group as Mansour, but it's not clear if this is Mansour and he did come back to or stay in Germany, or if Atta was associating with a second Pakistani Air Force pilot. (Newsday, 1/24/02; Network of Terror, 11/01) The FBI later notes that Alshehhi arrived "almost as a replacement" for Mansour. After 9/11, the FBI asks Pakistan if the flight lieutenant and squad leader Mansour can be found and questioned about any possible role he may have had in the 9/11 plot, but there's no indication Pakistan as to whether has ever agreed to this request. (Rediff, 7/17/02) In late 2002, the German Federal Bureau of Criminal Investigations will say that Mansour remains "a very interesting figure." (Los Angeles Times, 9/1/02)

February 15, 2001
"Atta and Pakistani Fighter Pilot Associate Denied Airplane Security Job Because of Criminal Record"
According to a book by Jurgen Roth, described by Newsday as "one of Germany's top investigative reporters," on this day Mohamed Atta applies for a job with Lufthansa Airlines at the Frankfurt, Germany, airport. The security post he applies for would give him access to secure areas of the busy international airport. However, when Lufthansa checks his criminal record they find that in 1995 he had been under investigation for petty drug crimes, so his application is turned down. Three days later, an Iranian citizen dropping Atta's name also applies for the same job, and is also turned down. On March 5, a third man applies, with Atta at his side. He tells Lufthansa that he has been a pilot in the Pakistani Air Force. Apparently both the Iranian and Pakistani are members of an Islamic study group with Atta at the Hamburg university they are all attending. While the name of the Pakistani pilot is not revealed in this account, a Pakistani Air Force pilot named Atif bin Mansour is known to have applied together with Atta for a room for a new Islamic study group in early 1999. After 9/11, Lufthansa Airlines will say they can neither confirm nor deny this account, because all such records for rejected applicants have been routinely deleted. (Newsday, 1/24/02; Roth, 2001)

---

I have my doubts this guy is still alive. At the very least, it seems likely he was the guy with Atta in March 2001, which means Pakistan lied when they claimed he never went back to Germany after 1999. I could also see Pakistan and the US very much wanting to cover up a Pakistani air force pilot as one of the hijackers.

Just speculation, though.

Oh! And let's not forget the fact that the video footage of Hani Hanjour walking through airport security before boarding Flight 77 looks nothing like him (in my opinion)! Maybe someone can post those pictures again, or bring back the thread with them in it?
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John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Where is Hani?
Here's the thread about Hani supposedly to be seen on video footage of Dulles Airport.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Hani is strange:
At first only four hijackers were listed for AA 77 and he only appeared on September 14. Washington Post wonderd if he didn't have a boarding card.

Then he is presented on the video footage but sorry, this guy in the footage does really not look like Hani.

And then RedSock's great finding Hani replaced Caned.

Besides the CNN transcript there is not a single mentioning of this name on the net.

I checked the finnlist to see if this name was listed as Hani's alias. It isn't.

An aside question about Iskandar, Paul:

As I recall he's the only Arab name on any flight that is not a hijacker.
But his name didn't appear on the first lists. And if we add up all lists of serious journals right after 911 we come to 100 names. Jude and Nathalie Larson are known to be alive. But what are the other six wrong names? Do you know for sure that Iskandar was on AA 11? I know this question might appear macabre. But logically six names must be wrong.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Kevin Fenton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Pictures of AA 77 hijackers
There's some pictures of AA 77 hijackers at Dulles here:
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/flight77/hijackers.html
There's one of HH (supposedly) going through screening about half way down.
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John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Check out the above mentioned thread
there is no way that this guy is Hani.
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dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. photos look of different ethnics
like at least one is Pakistan...

Whatever! At this pt..I think that they were all cia assets and either alive and partying or dead as to have outlived their corporat value..

OSS {Pre CIA}
Os wald
Os ama

Osama bin Liden sounds like Osama been in London
and "factoid" is the big "O" had an Office in London before 9/11
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. Nice find!

Oklahoma city bombing had John Doe II.

9/11 has Mosear Caned.
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dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. names are strange
Mosear Caned.
rearrange to: mose canard . Very close to saying a most false story.

which is exactly what 9/11 govt story is...

trivia:
OSS
Os wald
Os ama
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Yeah!........looks like John Doe 2 boarded FL77!
.........rather than Hani Hanjour.

John Doe 2 as sketched at the time of the Olkahoma city bombing in 1995....


John Doe 2 aka Hani Hanjour/Mosear Caned boarding Fl77 at Dulles on 9/11/2001.....




The Hani Hanjour who the FBI says boarded Fl77 looked like this:



From now on I am refering to the 5th hijacker of fl77 as John Doe 2.
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John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. No no no no
it wasn't me ....
:scared:
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RedSock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Linked at Xymphora
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myrmenki Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-05 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. I think I found him
Have a look at the Finnlist . That's the list of FBI suspects that leaked via Finnland.

It presents a strange collection of terror suspects, amongst others the 9/11 hijackers ("Possibly deceased"), with a wide array of "aliasses" (i.e. complete names), various birth dates and residences.

Some of the suspects are a sick joke, like victim Alona Avraham.

The name Mosear Caned, of course, isn't arabic.

Caned could be Khane/id, which would point to Iran or Pakistan,
but there are misheard l's in other names, so I'd vote for the very common name Khale/id. (i or e doesn't matter).

Mosear doesn't exist, but one very similar name could be Musa or Moosa, if he's from a former British colony; Moussa, if he's from a former French colony.

Have a look at the Finnlist. Khaled (ben) Moussa. No birth date, no residence, no nothing. Both names are, of course, originally given names; names with 'ben' (son) usually denote the father's given name and are NOT the family name. Easy not to know which name should come first. The orthography Moussa is french, and 'ben' instead of 'ibn' could point to berber influence. Northern African?

Now let's look at his "alias". Moussaqui. WTF? Let's look at the next guy in the Finnlist. Morocco born Zacarias Moussaoui, alias: Moussaqui. OK, so some moron misread oui (pronounced 'wee') for qui.

What are Zacarias' given names? Finnlist names none. That's plain impossible.

Have a look at, for example, the Wikipedia entry for Zacarias.

He called himself 'Abu Khaled al Sahrawi'. 'Abu' often comes in nicknames, and literally means father. (Like calling your pal Mike "father Mike"). Al Sahrawi denotes a tribe or a village and is probably his tribal family name. But might we assume that Khaled is really his name? I tend to think so, from the little I've seen in arab nicknames. I didn't find his real and complete name on the net, But I believe that Zacarias' full name could be: Given names Zacarias Khaled or Khaled Zacarias, family names al Sahraoui (-wi) Moussaoui. This is mere speculation on my part, so please help me verify somehow his full name!

Now compare this to Khaled ben Moussa, alias Moussaqui!

But I would like to add a caveat: Both names (Musa and Khaled) are very common, although not that much with french orthography.

Is anybody able to find out the complete names of Zacarias?

Does anybody know when exactly the FBI realised that Zacarias had been in their custody for weeks already?
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myrmenki Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. A minor corrigendum
Edited on Thu Jun-16-05 06:05 PM by myrmenki
Al Sahrawi probably isn't a tribal name, although it could be. It means simply "The Saharian", and therefore should be a real and proper nickname. Or an alias, as the FBI puts it. Khaled al Sahrawi, 'Khaled the Sahara-guy'. Seems plausible for a Moroccan.

(edited for typo)
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myrmenki Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Official declines to provide Moussaoui's full name
I didn't find out yet the full name of Moussaoui. But look at this:

On the Indictment of Zacarias his aliases are: Abu Khalid al Sahrawi and Shaqil.

The authorities don't even mention Zacarias' full name in the indictment! That's not normal, is it? That guy has several given and several family names, and yet only part of it shows up in official law suits? WTF?

But then please have a look at the following June 2002 AP article. I didn't find the original, so you might have to read the copy at Prisonplanet. It's about how the CIA was warned about Zacarias Moussaoui, but not under this name.

(....)
Officials familiar with the intelligence said the alias provided by the informant was somewhat similar to one of the aliases listed for Moussaoui in his December 2001 indictment Abu Khalid al Sahrawi.

One official said the alias provided by the intelligence source was similar to Abu Khalid, but that the rest of the name was different. The official declined to provide the full name or be more specific.
(....)

(Emphasis added by me)

So let's do some guesswork: Similar to Abu Khalid. How about ... 'Khalid'? (Let me stress again that short i and short e in Arabic are one and the same, so 'Khalid' and 'Khaled' both are written Kh-A-L-D.)

And the rest was different (from the alias!). How about... Moussa? Or Moussaoui / Mus(s)awi?

Khalid Moussa perhaps? Or Moussa Khalid?
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