Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What about the phone calls??

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 Donate to DU
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 02:13 AM
Original message
What about the phone calls??
Edited on Fri Jun-03-05 02:20 AM by FreedomAngel82
I've heard some theories with the phone calls and that they didn't really happen as we were told. This is hard to warp your brain around for sure. What would that mean? Would that mean they were pre-recorded at another time and staged? Were they staged called in from somewhere else? Were there even real people on the flights? If they lied about the plane's that were used would that mean those people weren't on there? What happened to them?? Are they now living by different name's and looks? It's so hard to understand. In the doc "Loose Change" they talk about the phone calls. According to the doc there was one call that's really strange. A guy called his mother and talked with her before it happened. He gave his "mother" his first and last name. Why would he have to do that??? Wouldn't your mother know your voice? Most phone's have caller ID's don't they?

Caller: Mom? This is Mark Bigham.
Caller: I want you to know I love you. I'm on a flight from Newark to San Francisco and there are three guys who have taken over the plane and they say they have a bomb.
Alice: Who are these guys?
Caller: (after a pause) You believe me, don't you?
Alice: Yes, Mark. I believe you. Who are these guys?

After a pause the line went dead.

Then another caller said a man named Demer called his cell phone company. He recited the twenty-third psalm and then said "let's roll!" and then you can hear the phone drop. Why would he do that? Why not call a member of his own family? A mother? Father? Wife? Child? Sibling? Or some other family member? I'd probably call my mother if that was me.

All the other calls were really short before they said they had to go, but they called back a couple minute's later. On the website physics911.net the owner did a series of experiments. What he did was he took five different cell phones onto Flight 172 to determine a success rate as the plane got higher in altitude. After an altitude of 4,000 feet he had a .4 success rate. At an altitude of 8,000 feet he had a success rate of .1. At 32,000 he had .006 success rate of cell phone calls getting through. Less then a 100 chance. The majority of the cell phone calls on 9/11 were made at cruising altitude which means the plane was traveling at 33,000 feet and at 500 miles per hour. Which in conclusion from this experiment shows the cell phone calls were.....FAKE! So how is all this possible to fake a person's voice? In 1999 Los Alamo Laboratory in New Mexico that revealed their voice morphing technology. General Carl W. Steiner, the former cic of United States special operation command declared on tape: "Gentleman. We have called you together to inform you that we are going to over throw the United States government."

"By taking just a ten minute sample of somebody's voice the scientists are able to create an almost perfect copy."

Another example was Colin Powell and he said "I am being treated well by my captures."

Oh and nine hijackers are still a live. Mohammad Atta's father claimed to receive a phone call from his son on September 12th, 2001. Five of the hijackers lived at a hotel right outside the NSA. The official autopsy report does NOT mention the hijackers (not one). The opening paragraph makes NO mention of their absence. FBI director Robert Muller brushed it off saying "The hijackers were using stolen passports and may not have had tickets so there's no way to know who they actually were." So if there's no proof to know who they were and were members of Al-Quida or even on the plane why are they in Afghanistan? Finally the BinLaden confession tape. On December 14th, 2001 the government released a tape allegedly of BinLaden confessing to the attacks of 9/11 which they claimed to find in a house in Kandahar (sp?), Afghanistan. There are a number things wrong with that.

1) The tape itself is a very poor quality

2) The man in the video looks and acts nothing like BinLaden.

Don't forget the CNN article where BinLaden says he didn't do the 9/11 attacks and because he's a Muslim he doesn't believe in killing women and children. According to the FBI's website Usama is left-handed. In the video he's writing a note with his RIGHT hand. The only way that could be is if he broke his arm. When my brother was younger he used to be left-handed but he jumped off some steps when he was a toddler and fell on his arm weird and broke it and had to wear an arm cast for a good long while. Now he is right handed but very sloppy. I'm surprised anybody can read his writing. In this 2001 video BinLaden is also wearing a gold ring and watch which is forbidden by Islamic law and never mentioned in the FBI description of him. With that video his skin is also VERY VERY dark to past photo's and video's and his beard is different too (it's too short). I also noticed from past video's of BinLaden he ALWAYS had two body guards behind him with their outfits on and a gun ALWAYS right next to his side to where it can be seen in the video. In this video and the 2004 video that was released before "election" night there were no gun and he used the opposite hand he is. The timing's of these video's are also very interesting as well. So who is this "BinLaden" and where did he come from? Where is the real BinLaden?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, there are a lot of interesting issues surrounding the phones.
also interesting is the pre 9-11 Washington Post article which says that morphing technology is available that replicates people voices perfectly. Tin foil, I know, but it IS a possibility.

http://www.public-action.com/911/voice-simulation/index...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-03-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Amy Sweeney phone call to AA either fake or pilots knew about hijackers
but didn't take 5 seconds to send a message about the hijacking.

Amy Sweeney phone call to AA ground manager was either faked or the pilots knew about the hijackers and violent actions well before the hijackers tried to enter the cockpit, yet the pilots did not take 5 seconds to communicate to FAA that there was a problem, nor take actions to prevent a hijacking.

Some who've seen the transcript or a report based on it say that Amy in the call was speaking as though she was describing current events that are going on as she talks.
Yet the official records(verified by FBI reports) indicate that her call began to M. Woodward at 8:32 and all of the events she seems to be describing first hand had to have happened about 10 minutes or so before the time she is speaking. They say she showed little if any emotion and it was like she was reading a press report discussing things that had already happened but speaking as if they are happening as she speaks.

I've only seen news reports and the FBI transcripts which appear to be consistent with my discussion here.

Also there was a question as to why there were no screams or etc. in the background when she was witnessing the upcoming tall buildings and exclaimed Oh my God, Oh my God.


For example:

As Ms Sweeney was giving their seat numbers, they reached the cockpit and it was then, as the plane suddenly changed course, that she spoke her last reported words:
"I see water and buildings. Oh my God! Oh my God!"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1556096.stm


did the Media and FBI make major mistakes in their reports on this? or was the problem with the call?

And why hasn't the transcript been officially released?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-03-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Tape of Amy Sweeney call has been kept secret and suppressed &
the public not even made aware of its existance.
Why was it kept secret and why has the info on it being suppressed?

9/11 Tapes Reveal Ground Personnel Muffled Attacks
New York Observer 20 June 2004 by Gail Sheehy

URL: http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage2.asp


When the president and chief executive of American Airlines, Gerard Arpey, testified, he never mentioned Ms. Sweeney or the cache of information she had provided American Airlines officials early in the unfolding disaster has been supressed and covered up:

Since then, Mike Sweeney, her widowed husband, has been troubled by the disconnect between the airlines ignoring of his wifes efforts, and the fact that the F.B.I. awarded her its highest civilian honor. He was first informed about the new tape two weeks previously by the U.S. attorneys office in Virginia. David Novak, an assistant U.S. attorney involved in prosecuting the Moussaoui case, told Mr. Sweeney that the existence of the tape was news to him and offered him a private hearing.

"I was shocked that Im finding out, almost three years later, there was a tape with information given by my wife that was very crucial to the happenings of 9/11," Mr. Sweeney told me. "Suddenly it miraculously appears and falls into the hands of F.B.I.? Why and how and for what reason was it suppressed? Why did it surface now? Is there information on that tape that is of concern to other law-enforcement agencies?"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. Mom? This is Mark Bingham..... this must be one of the oddest of the
things I've ever heard about in all of the accounts of 9/11 that I have read or watched.

As to cell phone calls. I have a friend who was a flight attendant for years and according to her, phone calls can be made.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. That was odd
Why would you tell your mom your first and last name? She should know your voice right off, right? Whenever my mom called my grandparents in the past before caller ID's were popular and on a lot of the phone's she would say something like "hey it's me" and they'd start chatting. And the guy who called his cell phone company was weird too. Was your friend a flight attendant back in 2001? I know the cell phones have gotten a lot better since then but some of the older one's might not have been able to do that. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. She was a flight attendant up until about 2 years ago. On 9/11,
according to her, cell phones could be used in the air. She is not by any means covering anything up by telling me that. She is a very vocal proponent of getting the truth out there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. 911 Cell Phone Call Experimental Evidence ( 911 calls likely faked)
911 Cell Phone Call Experimental Evidence ( 911 calls likely faked) http://physics911.ca/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greenman2 Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. cell phones...
I am a cell phone design engineer. i dont dissagree with your flight att, but this is VERy dependant on several factors.
most important is altitude.
as Kee's experiment says, they work up until 2-5,000ft
i have tried a dozen times (Shhh...)
it NEVER works over 5,000ft. it may connect for 1/2 second, then drops right away.

i just posted a comment here...
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/05/316975d.shtml

pasting below...

====================================


the idea that Olson was even on this flight is a bit too coincidetal for me.
just like the idea that there were 4-5 war games going on that day.
I am a cell phone design engineer. The calls that were made could not have come from 35,000ft like shown in the flight maps for flight 93 and others.
Ted Olson first said that she used a cell phone, then when a few people were saying that cell phojnes wouldnt work,he changed his story to airphones.
the problem is he had aleardy said she was in back (bathroom i think) when she called.
Well, that cant be true either, airphone cords dont reach to the bathroom. i checked.
so he tried to cover his story, but made a faux pas and coulnt go back.
then he said, she might not have been in the bathroom, he thought she was becuase the background noise was quite.
trying to cover up again....

September 12, 2001
WASHINGTON -- "What should I tell the pilot to do? We've been hijacked," Barbara Olson, a former Southern California prosecutor, said matter-of-factly into her cell phone as she sat huddled with other passengers forced by knife-wielding assailants to the back of the jetliner.

Moments later, the solicitor general watched the screen and heard a newscaster speculate that a bomb had exploded at the Pentagon.
"He knew immediately that a bomb didn't go off," McConnell said. "He knew it was the plane."

WOW i guess he is psychic ? There were reports of other bombs...

more...
http://analysis.batcave.net/cell_phones.html
http://www.911review.org/Wiki/CellPhoneCallsFlight77.sh...
http://www.911review.org/Wiki/Sept11PhysicsCellPhones.s...
http://www.911review.org/Wiki/CellPhoneCalls.shtml
brad
http://911review.org

http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/bradm/911index/index.h...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. It's also odd that Barbara Olson
was the only one on that flight to call someone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobgreenboston2 Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Sure?
I heard that wasn't true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-03-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. regarding babs olson wife of teddy boy
http://www.geocities.com/subliminalsuggestion/olson.htm...

"This is a story about a little white lie that bred dozens of other little white lies, then hundreds of bigger white lies and so on, to the point where the first little white lie must be credited as the Mother of All Lies about events on 11 September 2001. For this was the little white lie that first activated the American psyche, generated mass loathing, and enabled media manipulation of the global population.
Without this little white lie there would have been no Arab Hijackers, no Osama Bin Laden directing operations from afar, and no War on Terror in Afghanistan and occupied Palestine. Clearly the lie was so clever and diabolical in nature, it must have been generated by the Power Elite in one of its more earthly manifestations. Perhaps it was the work of the Council on Foreign Relations, or the Trilateral Commission?
No, it was not. Though at the time the little white lie was flagged with a powerful political name, there was and remains no evidence to support the connection. Just like the corrupt and premature Lee Harvey Oswald story in 1963, there are verifiable fatal errors which ultimately prove the little white lie was solely the work of members of the media. Only they had access, and only they had the methods and means.
The little white lie was about Barbara Olson, a conservative commentator for CNN and wife of US Solicitor General Ted Olson. Now deceased, Mrs Olson is alleged to have twice called her husband from an American Airlines Flight 77 seat-telephone, before the aircraft slammed into the Pentagon. This unsubstantiated claim, reported by CNN remarkably quickly at 2.06 am EDT <0606 GMT> on September 12, was the solitary foundation on which the spurious Hijacker story was built. "
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Borg Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
8. AMDOCS
Another suspicious detail. The billing of phone connections is executed by the company AMDOCS far away from America. To prove the phone connections it is necessary to have access on the central server in Israel.
Any idea how to manage this ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greenman2 Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-03-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Isreal ? + smoking gun !
I am not familiar with Airphone, but with most cell phone companies i have worked for, the data is stored in the local switch.
I have heard baout this thing in Isreal, but it is misleading.
From what i understand, they made the software, so they may have built in a backdoor to get access, but that doesnt mean that the data is stored there. The data is at a local swtich. I worked with the people that did the backups. the data has to be saved for at least 3 (or 5?) years per FCC regs.

Were UA 93's phone calls really recorded??
http://team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?7.258

a good post above...

GTE/Verizon did state that they handled over 20 calls at a special call center set up just for Airphone.
The problem still remains though.
a few victims relatives purposely said cell phones.
CeeCee Lyles husband said that he saw the caller ID, Ed Felt had called from a bathroom, and Airphone cords dont reach that far.
As a matter of fact, in a bathroom, one would expect that it would be harder to make a call, probabally bringing down the power about in 1/2 (3dB).
Ted Olson first said that Barbara had used a cell pohone, then he said she was in the bathroom, then he said she forgot her purse and had to borrow a credit card from someone to make an airphone call. his story kept changing.

If you look at the flight maps, most of the calls for flight 93 "should" have been made at 35,000ft or even above.
I seriously doubt that happened. Even Airphones would have had a real problem at that altitude, unless there happened to be a antenna pointed right at them
http://airgames.bravehost.com
is a detailed look at the flight maps for all flights...

Personally, i think some of the calls (or people) were faked, and others may have been real, but from a different craft than flight 93.

Flight 93 had only forty four people in total, including four suspected hijackers. Thirty
seven passengers (excluding crew) on a plane that holds around two hundred people
http://team8plus.org/content.php?article.8
23 of those (at least) bought tickets at the last minuite !
also several epople came from flight 91 that was cancelled.
did ANYONE buy tickets for flight 93 ahead of time???

make the info for the calls public !!!
http://analysis.batcave.net/cell_phones.html




Smoking Gun...
a cell phone call was recived by state troopers in Illinios !!
Why would the call be routed 3 states away ?
HINT: IT wasnt !!!
the call had to be made in Illinios !
call 911 on your cell phone, the LOCAL COPPERS will pick up.
cell phone calls are routed to the LOCAL swtich in emergencies...


sorry i could not find a link on the web for it...

In addition to this the GTE/Verizon airphone emergency center is..
guess where ???
Illinios !
If anyone can find out how many emergency call centers were operating for Airphone in 2001, and where they were, it could be VERY usefull !
If there was an emergency call center for GTE/Airpone on the East Coast, then , by george, WE GOTEM !

Here is some information regarding the 911 commission and Chicago!

Brunner checked out the commissioners and discovered that out of 10, at least six represent the very companies they're now investigating.
"Here we've got the most important event in America in the past 50 years, the most horrible thing that's happened to Americans, and yet we pick a bunch of people who are connected to the very people who are at the center of the question of who's at fault," says Terry Brunner, a former federal prosecutor who now runs the Aviation Integrity Project in Chicago. "It's ridiculous."

He says they are: "Fred Fielding, Spirit Airlines, United Airlines; Slade Gordon represents Delta Airlines; Sen. Max Cleland $300,000 from the airline industry; Jim Thompson represents American Airlines; Richard BenVinesta represents Boeing and United Airlines; and Rep. Tim Roemer - Boeing and Lockheed Martin."

"They're all up to here, with either being connected to the airlines or to the manufacturer of the airplane," says Brunner.

One of the commissioners, former Illinois Gov. Jim Thompson, once represented United and still counsels American - the very airlines involved in the Sept. 11 attack.

Brunner checked out the commissioners and discovered that out of 10, at least six represent the very companies they're now investigating.
"Here we've got the most important event in America in the past 50 years, the most horrible thing that's happened to Americans, and yet we pick a bunch of people who are connected to the very people who are at the center of the question of who's at fault," says Terry Brunner, a former federal prosecutor who now runs the Aviation Integrity Project in Chicago. "It's ridiculous."
www.bestandworst.com/38/explosives-building-obvious-cov...
Brad
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-05-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Ineresting but I don't quite get your point about Illinois & the 911 call
But I didn't get your point about the emergency GTE Airphone center being in Chicago vs East Coast. Why is that potentially a smoking gun?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-03-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Anyone know what kind of communications there are between pilots & Fliight
Attendants? I assume that they have communications.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-05-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Certainly they have an intercom system so that FA's can call the
cockpit.

With five to seven flight attendants (FAs) on each of the 9/11 flights, I don't see why one of the FAs didn't call the cockpit to warn them that a hijack was starting. I still don't see how the pilots would have been taken by surprise-- especially since on at least two of the flights, passengers were (supposedly) stabbed at the beginning of each hijacking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-05-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. All known pilots on record say the hijackings couldn't have happened as
the story has been told. For a lot of reasons that they go into.
Posted previously.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. All known pilots? Can you give that link again? Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-05-05 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. FYI
teddy is back in the game and one other site says spitzer is lunching with kenny boy star..



http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/search/article_...

"Olson: Cooper Defense to Rely on Precedent, Common Law

By Joe Strupp

Published: April 28, 2005 updated 12:50 PM ET

NEW YORK Attorney Ted Olson, who has taken over defense of Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper in the Valerie Plame case, says he plans to rely more on case law and common law, instead of the First Amendment, as he prepares to argue his client's right to a reporter's privilege before the U.S. Supreme Court.

"We felt it might be worthwhile to take a different approach," Olson, President Bush's first solicitor general, told E&P. "We might focus more on the common law privilege, whether there is a privilege that stems from the First Amendment or from various case decisions.""

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-05-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thanks. Interesting points.
Agreed with you on the fakery of the Bin Ladin "confession" video. As for the cell phone calls: first, please tread carefully. It's easy to get good people hurt and riled up against us, who may instead turn out to be allies if we can approach it the right way.

Here are my questions:

Do we know the altitude from which the calls were supposedly made?

An experiment in Canada doesn't count. Only by trying calls while flying over the same routes as the 9/11 planes can we get salient information.

For each call, there are two obviously relevant questions. I'm wondering if there is a compilation to answer them:

- Was the call airphone or cell phone?

- Was it to a relative, friend or associate? Or to an operator or other service person who doesn't know the caller?

I can imagine a fellow in panic repeating his full name to his mother.What I found interesting about the first time I saw Mrs. Bingham (on TV on Sept. 12) is that she (and Mark's wife, who had been in the same place while she took the call) didn't mention anything about the hero story, but merely said he bade them farewell.

Regardless, the Olsen story is too good to believe. This was the first call that came out.* (There was one other alleged call from AA 77.)

What about Ed Felt's 911 call saying he'd heard an explosion on UA 93?

Thanks again.

(* Not to endorse the Vialls article; he is obviously a misinformationist, if you follow his various articles you'll discover he blamed 9/11 on the French-Russian-German axis as a righteous strike against the New York Zionists; he also rejected the idea of a standdown.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Burnett
We know that Burnett used a cell phone. This is beyound dispute. At least for his first two calls. According to the CR he used a cell phone for all four calls.
The first lasted about 30 seconds the second about 1min 30 sec. In both cases he hung up. The calls were done at least at cruising altitude. Keep in mind that during the period of first and second call UA 93 went up to 40,000 feet.
Felt's call was at 9:58 so at an altitude something between 6,000 and 10,000 feet. It lasted 78 seconds and got disconnected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. Thanks, now...
Which one was Burnett?

Is there a definitive calls resource? (i.e., one that states caller, time, recipient, form of connection if known, content if known, links to source, etc.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kevin Fenton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bin Laden, phones
"The man in the video looks and acts nothing like Bin Laden."
Actually, his looks and actions are remarkably similar to Bin Laden's, but not quite the same.
Paul Thompson says:
"The US releases a video of bin Laden that seems to confirm his role in the 9/11 attack. However, a number of strange facts about this video soon emerge. For example, all previous videos had been made with the consent of bin Laden, and usually released to the Arabic television channel Al Jazeera. This video was supposedly recorded without his knowledge, found in a house in Afghanistan, and then passed to the CIA by an unknown person or group. Experts point out that it would be possible to fake such a video. So many people doubt the video's authenticity that Bush soon makes a statement, saying it was preposterous for anybody to think this tape was doctored. Those who contend it's a farce or a fake are hoping for the best about an evil man. Some observers point out that bin Laden is wearing a ring on his right hand. In previous films, he had worn no jewelry apart from a watch. The German television show Monitor conducts an independent translation that questions the translation given by the US military. According to Professor Gernot Rotter, scholar of Islamic and Arabic Studies at the University of Hamburg, This tape is of such poor quality that many passages are unintelligible. And those that are intelligible have often been taken out of context, so that you can't use that as evidence. The American translators who listened to the tape and transcribed it obviously added things that they wanted to hear in many places. There are reports that bin Laden had from four to ten look-alike doubles at the time. "
I'm with PT on this one, it's just one of Bin Laden's doubles.

Some of the phone calls seem to have been made with airphones, so I don't think the altitude issue was relevant there. Most/all the non-airphone calls were made from planes whose transponders were switched off, so we don't know how high they were. I really don't think there would be much point in faking calls nobody would expect anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Altitude
"Most/all the non-airphone calls were made from planes whose
transponders were switched off, so we don't know how high they were."

Note that flight 93 flew right over Pittsburg and its airport. If it
wasn't at a very high altitude at that time it would have brought a lot
of chaos to the traffic controllers there. But the 9/11 Commission
doesn't mention it. So it must have been very high.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kevin Fenton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Pittsburg
Thompson's timeline has UA 93 passing over Pittsburg at about 9:55, some time after it was hijacked and 15 minutes after the transponder was turned off at 9:40.
The transponder was turned back on briefly at 10:00 (possibly because the passengers had control of the cockpit at this time or were fighting for it) and the plane was at 7,000 feet.
Pittsburg control tower was evacuated at 9:49, so I suppose there was chaos there regardless of the altitude.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Is it bin Laden's double or someone else's double of bin Laden?
Edited on Wed Jul-06-05 08:23 PM by philb
that is the question? And it makes a big difference.
Is this the only time bin Laden admitted being involved?

And why the contradiction with previous tape?

And is bin Laden still alive?
If so, why is he not captured?

And if not, since how long?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kevin Fenton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Big difference
Yes, it does make a big difference. My impression is that it is one of his real doubles. If it were supposed to be a fake by the CIA, say, why wouldn't they get somebody better? Why wouldn't it be better quality?

It is not the only time he admitted being involved. For example, on the 29 October 2004 tape he says, "And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children."

The evidence linking Al Qaeda to 9/11 and the previous attacks (I mean the African embassy bombings and the USS Cole, obviously not the WTC in 1993) is pretty strong to my mind. It's also worth pointing out that they never denied it. I'm sure the hijackers were sent to the US by Al Qaeda.

What contradiction with the previous tape?

They say bin Laden is alive on the news, so I suppose he is. I figure he hasn't been captured because (1) Afghanistan is a big country with difficult terrain, (2) he doesn't want to be captured, and (3) nobody's really trying to capture him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. not many of relatives of flight victims accepted compensation; why?
The 9-11 Passenger List Oddity
by Vincent Sammartino

http://69.28.73.17/thornarticles/911passengerlist.html

Of the passengers and crew of Flight 11, 77, 175 & 93, only 22%, 22%, 28%, 13% respectively are in the SSDI.

According to Vincent: who said he did a search:
Of the 266 people that we were told died on these jets, only 11 relatives applied for compensation and not a single relative from Flight 93 applied for compensation.

However according to the 9-11 Victims Compensation Final Report
http://www.usdoj.gov/final_report.pdf

Out of a total of 92 people on Flight 11, only 65 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)
Out of a total of 65 people on Flight 175, only 46 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)
Out of a total of 64 people on Flight 77, only 33 accepted the 9-11 fund (52%)
Out of a total of 45 people on Flight 93, only 25 accepted the 9-11 fund (56%)


Did the final Report overreport or did Vincent not get the real results?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
27. Is there a URL for the bin Laden tape?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ferry Fey Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. "Mom? This is Mark Bingham"
Now that I think of it, one of my sisters once absent-mindedly called Dad and started her conversation with him with "Hi, this is Shara Johnson.*" She was gently razzed about that by the family for years afterward. So what Mark Bingham is supposed to have said was not something that by itself was out of the realm of possibility.

I still want to know how Edward Felt saw the smoke from the explosion when he was locked in the bathroom for safety.



*not her real name
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Jul 24th 2017, 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC