Have you seen "9-11 In Plane Sight"?

[Nlighten1]

I just finished watching this. I don't know what to say. That footage from the Pentagon has me questioning if I believe the official story.

[irancontra]

1. yes.. it is excellent

i highly recommend this if you, like me, doubt the official story..
www.911inplanesite.com

[bookman]

2. Next month

It will be featured at a meeting. (We saw Outfoxed this month.)

We did get a sneak peek that included the pentagon thing.

[oldlady]

3. let me tell you...

I have an extensive documentary collection, that I let neighbors check-out at work (I work in my community center). Anyway... this is the hottest ticket going. I think 40 people have watched it in the last four weeks. One of my neighbors helps with a local access tv show with fellow Muslims & aired it. One high school senior showed it to his entire civics class. It's quite the film! (It also tends to increase the circulation of CIA-related documentaries & Panama Deception-- yep, my homies are being schooled in a truthful history)

peace

[Nlighten1]

6. This guy raises a WHOLE lot of issues...

that I never heard discussed during the 9/11 commission's meetings.

[RH]

46. He raises nothing

Its nothing more than a rehash of a pile of crap already kicked around for more than two whole years.

[MercutioATC]

4. Check out the 9/11 Forum here at DU. It's been debunked repeatedly.

The available physical evidence just doesn't support its conclusions.

[Timefortruth]

11. There is no 9/11 forum here.

I just went to check. What happened to it?

[Minstrel Boy]

12. It's well-hidden.

It's a subdirectory of "Foreign Affairs/National Security."

[MercutioATC]

44. Try here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125


(it's under "Foreign Affairs/National Security")

[soothsayer]

5. In particular I liked the OK City bombing footage. Did you watch that? nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. I own the movie, thought it was very good, but

no one has answered this question, which was never addressed in the movie...

What happened to all of the people who were supposed to be on those planes?

I agree that the Pentagon footage is compelling. The hole in the Pentagon doesn't fit the airplane story. Where's the wing damage on the building? There was none. Where's the debris from the plane. There was none. All the seats on the plane just disintegrated? yet papers and furniture were non even singed? I don't think so. So many questions.

What happened to all the people from the planes...if they weren't passenger jets? :shrug:

[King_Crimson]

15. There is a very interesting theory on this subject...

here http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/08-08-04/discussion.cgi.23.html

[johnnie]

8. I watched it last night

I thought it had some interesting points. I will never believe the "official" story, but I don't really know what to think.
In a bit this thread will have the official debunkers all over it. Don't take it personally though, I think the few that try to rip apart even a shred of anything pointing to something other than what we are told to believe are here at the request of some people outside of DU. They really only post on these types of threads.
Another one I watched last night was Micheal Ruppert's "The Truth and Lies of 9-11". It isn't really a conspiracy type tape, it is him giving a lecture in November of 2001. He ties the drug trade in to the attacks and it is quite compelling.

[CANDO]

9. I own the DVD and.....

thought at first it was raising some very good questions about the Pentagon. Regarding the untouched furniture and filing cabinets: you must recall that those rooms were intact until the floors collapsed, thereby exposing those rooms after the fact and after the fire was squelched. I still wonder how that plane left no trace of itself yet there were several large cable spools in seemingly pristine condition lying in the direct vicinity of the crash area. How could they have survived while the airplane was completely incinerated? I mean, those spools were right there and all covered in foam from the fire trucks and they didn't even look so much as singed. And about the bulge under the planes that went into the trade center, just yesterday I looked up at an airliner and there was a large bulge across the area to accommodate the wheels into the belly. Also met a Continental Pilot two weeks ago at a Kerry rally in Allentown and asked him about the possibility of an air force 767 tanker instead of civilian 767. He said it is not easy to see the windows of an airliner from the ground especially due to sun glare and other factors such as shadows from clouds. He really doubted the whole idea of non-civilian aircraft. I do agree that there is much more to the story than we will ever be told, such as LIHOP scenarios.

[Nlighten1]

14. The fact that there was no fire or plane debris...

at the Pentagon seems like a smoking gun. Suprisingly this has never been addressed.

[DrWeird]

16. That's right.

All that smoke and pieces of fuselage just go to show you what tricky customers we're dealing with.

[Zero Gravitas]

17. But

there should have been a plane-shaped hole in the wall of Pentagon!

[DrWeird]

19. Indeed.

Anybody who watches Tom and Jerry knows that when something crashes through a wall, the hole is exactly the same shape as the object.

What more proof could you possibly need to know that it's a fact that no plane ever crashed into the Pentagon?

[Nlighten1]

22. Apparently...

you haven't seen the movie...

[DrWeird]

24. No. But I still know there was no plane.

If there had been a plane, we would have seen it.

Here, for example, is the plane that crashed in Pennslyvania.

[Artemis Bunyon]

23. I'd really like to see some images of that fuselage you're talking about.

Please link to pictures. I've been trying to find this type of material for three years now.

[DrWeird]

25. Three years, eh?

Have you ever considered googling "pentagon" and "fuselage."



Here's a piece of the tail with part of the red 'A' in the American Airlines logo clearly visible. Note the fire in the background.

But like I said. This is just proof of how tricky "they" are. Anybody with enough resources to hijack a jetliner and hide it with all its passengers, and then shoot a missle into the Pentagon, can clearly leave a few pieces of plane lying around and start a fire. Since as we all know, missles don't cause fire.

[Artemis Bunyon]

27. A chunk of tail with some paint on it does not, a fuselage, make.

Sorry, try again.

[WoodrowFan]

53. really??

no fire??





no plane pieces??

[DS1]

30. a-fucking-men

The only thing worse than conspiracy nuts is conspiracy nuts who base their arguments on what some clowns that just happened to be in the area have to say about it.

Finally someone figures out that plane windows are on the top half. Yay. Insert Golf Clapping.

[tom_paine]

10. ALWAYS question the "official story" especially in Totalitarian Nations

like Imperial Amerika.

We are drowing in a sea of lies and Pravda...it is only likely to get worse.

[Minstrel Boy]

13. I worry that this narrative will become the "official alternative" to the

official story. The "no plane hit the Pentagon" story, for instance, is becoming an unfortunate wedge issue.

I have the video, but I found it much less compelling an argument for MIHOP than, say, the work of researchs like Daniel Hopsicker and Michael Ruppert, and the words of whistleblowers like Sibel Edmonds and Randy Glass.

The video compiles a number of anomalies, but anomalies alone don't really tell us much. To what do we have to compare them? The whole day was anomalous.

A better case for conspiracy can be made by unravelling the relations of the players and following the money.

I posted some thoughts in this regard a while ago on my blog, here.

[UdoKier]

18. Jeez - this gets posted every week.

You won't find a more open-minded bunch than DU, but the whole "missile into the pentagon" bit, aside from being implausible and unprovable - it makes no sense!

What happened to the flight that supposedly crashed into the pentagon, and all the people on it?

Did Rummy whisk them away to area 51?

Even if it was a gov't op, it would be easier to use a real plane than use a missile and "disappear" a plane and all its passengers.

Why does this totally UNcompelling story keep popping up?

There WAS a 9-11 conspiracy. Bushco may very well have been involved in it. But there were no missiles and no explosive charges. They were not necessary.

This is all Art Bell crapola, approved for dissemination by right-wing clearchannel meant to distract you and make you sound like crackpots. And guess what? It's working.

[Artemis Bunyon]

21. How about a smaller, more maneuverable, military jet?

As for what happened to the Boeing and the people on it, that can't be speculated upon based on Pentagon evidence, seeing as the people who say a Boeing didn't hit the Pentagon don't believe a Boeing hit the Pentagon!

Therefore, asking such speculators to explain what happened to the people on the Boeing is ridiculous.

[bobbyboucher]

32. Have you seen the documentary in question?

Juat wondering if you are making your decisions based on something other than what you mined from the video.

Also, you ask, What happened to the passengers? Well, you tell me, what did happen to the passengers?

[UdoKier]

38. I believe they were incinerated...

And have I seen the documentary? No. But I have seen the video clips on the website that supposedly shows that a "missile" and not a plane hit the pentagon. They're based on the same nonsensical logic. (The hole was too small to have been a Boeing, etc.)



Let's just say that it was a missile and they've hidden those people -

So what? What difference does it make to anything except for making those promoting the theory look crazy?

Whose agenda does this theory serve, other than the right's?

I wish all the little would-be Mulder and Scully types would think about that a bit...

[crissy71]

39. zogby 911 poll of nyc

found that 50% of new yorkers either believe in LIHOP or MIHOP - this is not an unreasonable argument to make when people are confronted with facts and evidence so i think your "lets put our heads in the sand" tactic may be a tad suicidal, especially if you live, like i do, in NYC

[UdoKier]

40. WHat putting head in the sand?

I never said anything about LIHOP or MIHOP. I think LIHOP is an extremely likely scenario, and MIHOP is within the realm of possibility. I just think the notion that the conspirators had to use explosives or missile to do it is stupid, when the science shows that the "cover story" for how the attacks were carried out physically works perfectly, without taking the risk of someone seeing something.

Just because missiles and bombs were not used doesn't mean that there was no Bushco/CIA/whatever conspiracy.

I've yet to see anything remotely credible relating to these silly explosives/missiles theories.

Everything you need to know is right there in front of you. The 9-11 memo, Bush's bizarre behavior on the morning of 9-11. That is PROOF POSITIVE of this administration's incompetence, if not outright complicity. Anything with as flimsy "evidence" of the sort being promoted here can only serve to disccredit those promoting it.

You want more silly theories? Here you go:

http://www.wtc7.net/

"I've never seen a building collapse in exactly that way - therefore, it MUST have been CIA-planted charges!!!! Booga-booga!"

[WoodrowFan]

50. so what?

You can also find significant numbers of people who think Saddam was responsible for 9-11, that there WERE WMDs found in iraq. Hell, 40% of people in many polls think the earth is 10,000 years old and that Adam and Eve were real people. Truth is not determined by how many people believe something is true.

[crissy71]

37. two words - "Barbara Olsen"

she was supposed to be on the Washington plane - that in itself is pretty weird given her high status in wing-nut land

[UdoKier]

41. So if a right-wing ho died on the plane that indicates it was a missile?

At least one gay man, Mark Bingham died too, so what? Do you really think these people are still alive in Area 51?

I swear, sometimes I think you guys must really WANT it to have been a missile. that somehow that notion gives you comfort of some kind.

But I'll stop raining on your parade. Knock yourself out.

[WoodrowFan]

51. again, so?

it's surprising that a moderately well-known political figure was on a plane leaving Dulles?????????????? Hell, how many planes leave Dulles or National every day that don't have some talking head, or political writer, or politician or advisor or spouse of a figure on it?????????????? Hell, I live in the DC area and work downtown and you can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting SOMEBODY that is at least as well known as Barbara Olsen.

[RH]

56. And

the more the dead cats hit them the better.

I'm all for that.

:toast:

[Artemis Bunyon]

20. Yes. Thought-provoking but far short of definitive, with some weak points.

All in all, well worth seeing.

[GregW]

26. Did the plane that hit leave a chemtrail?

:eyes:

[Artemis Bunyon]

28. No, but I hear it left 20 dollars...

...on yo mamma's dresser drawer.

Oh, SNAP!

[DS1]

31. what an incredibly stupid thing to say

:eyes:

[Artemis Bunyon]

34. I can't believe someone with your avatar...

...has such a lousy sense of humor.

[Artemis Bunyon]

35. The Missile Pod stuff is more interesting than the Pentagon stuff.

Dr. Weird? Do you have any explanations for that part of the film?

[Radius]

29. Alcoa ^ 6

You are aware they found burned chunks of people in there who were on the aircraft. They then matched those burned parts of someones disjointed body to DNA samples.

They also recovered rotors (parts) from the jet onsite. Rotors are made of titanium and survived the high temperature of the fire, unlike aluminum which melts at a lower temp.

Vultures lining their pockets by eating our dead..

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

"USAToday.com Editor Joel Sucherman saw it all: an American Airlines jetliner fly left to right across his field of vision as he commuted to work Tuesday morning. It was highly unusual. The large plane was 20 feet off the ground and a mere 50 to 75 yards from his windshield. Two seconds later and before he could see if the landing gear was down or any of the horror-struck faces inside, the plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away. 'My first thought was he's not going to make it across the river to National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction,' Sucherman said. 'It was coming in at a high rate of speed, but not at a steep angle—almost like a heat-seeking missile was locked onto its target and staying dead on course.'"
- "Journalist Witnesses Pentagon Crash." eWeek.com, 13 Sep 2001

[bobbyboucher]

33. Well that settles it then.

Thanks.

[Radius]

36. Ah sarcasm, it was aliens we keep at Roswell..

The people on the plane called their families. Pieces of them were found onsite. Parts of the aircraft were found onsite.

I would assume the fan assembly of a rolls royce or pratt and whitney has a part number on it than can be tracked back to a particular jet. I believe that is how traced the rotor some farmer found in his field to united 232, DC-10.

[UdoKier]

42. This stuff is like religion.

They WANT it to be true. Who cares if it makes no sense?

The sad thing is, silly theories like this paint ALL the LIHOP/MIHOP theories, even the more plausible ones that deserve investigation with a "tin foil hat" brush.

So if you mention something about John O'Neill (www.rememberjohn.com) or James Baker defending the Saudis against the 9-11 victims, most people just say "Oh please. Are you getting more Russian transmissions on your fillings? Ha ha." It really sucks. There definitely WAS something fishy about 9-11. Why the hell does it have to have been missiles and bombs? These people are not amateurs.

[Artemis Bunyon]

43. What do you make of the pods and flash on the planes that hit the towers?

Just curious.

[WoodrowFan]

49. well

we think it proves some people don't know squat about science or airplanes that they think there WAs a p;od or a flash. Try reading RH's posts in this forum.


bye bye

[RH]

58. I did try,

but I've just about had enough of it now. It really is like creationism, always around to some extent.

The hope had been to save others the time. Back in 2002 I spent many months on the nonsense, wound up by aggressive idiots, only then to wish that I'd not been so foolish.

I'd started off with a pre primed political interest in conspiracy issues, just in case there was something real to the persistent Pentagon gossip, and then mainly because the psychology of psychotic paranoia is intellectually intriguing, but what did it lead to?

Sweet f.a. ... G.W. and the gang are as smug as they ever were. The psychotic paranoids rule, as ever.

:nuke:

[mountainvue]

45. I saw it.

It raises a lot of quesitons. The Pentagon one is especially baffling.

[WoodrowFan]

52. not really

what's baffling is how people get suckered into believing it after it's been so completely debunked.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

[RH]

57. Its the thrill of it,

the sheer sensationalism of romantic fiction.

"Shit happens" is relatively boring, and repulsively tedious.

[scottcsmith]

47. I watched it last night

Interesting but ultimately it's all speculation, and provides no real proof for any of the claims made.

The site Question911.com has made "In Plane Site" available for download. The quality isn't the best, and it's a large file, 107 MBs, so a broadband connection is a must. One caveat: this site rotates the availability of downloads, so you may not be able to download the file when you first visit the site.

[WoodrowFan]

48. not this crap again.

OK, let's go through this one more time.

One: there were many, many eyewitnesses, hundreds even. They saw an American Airlines airliners hit, not a small plane, not a missile, not a car or truck bomb. Some Duers have posted here with their eyewitness accounts.

Two: the black box was found.

Three: the remains of the passengers and crew were identified.

Four: The bit about the hole being "too small" or that the cable reels were "undisturbed" are out and out lies which have been debunked as well.

OK, this really is NOT difficult. How can we make fun of freepers for believing crap liker the "Clinton Death List" or that "WMDs were found in Iraq" when we have DUers believing equally foolish things that have been debunked over and over again.

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/crashthumbnails.html


http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33/

[John Doe II]

59. Black Box

I'd be happy to accept the Black Box as a proof.
Unfortunately Robert Mueller III said it "contained nothing useful". Then why is it not publicly released? Then certainly the whole Pentagon discussion will be closed.
But as it's not publicly released I think you can't put it on your list.

[RH]

60. as a proof of what?

as a proof of which aircraft it came from?

The FBI is an investigative agency. Its remit is to gather evidence, not to distribute it.

If you want the black box information, ask for it.

[demodewd]

61. get real

The FBI isn't going to release that information to anyone.

[RH]

62. The reality is

that if you don't ask you wont get.

[WoodrowFan]

54. a dishonest film

it's a fundamentally dishonest piece of film.

here is the pic they show of the Pentagon.



here is the full photo.



cropping a photo like that to prove a point has a word, it's called LYING!

[RH]

55. Correction.

That "full photo" is a collage, carefully pieced together to illustrate the point. If memory serves, 'anablep' put it together back in 2002.

There is really no excuse though for any deliberately selective choice of material at this stage of the game. An editor looking around for material could not possibly have missed the other side of the story, without actually wanting to.