Location confirmed for Taylor photo and Hezarkhani video

[William Seger]

They were on the top deck of the Ellis Island/Statue of Liberty ferry, just as Tayor said. The following photo was taken today by JREF poster EeneyMinnieMoe from approximately the same position:



For comparison, here is a frame from the Hezarkhani video:



... and small versions of Taylor's four photo:



EeneyMinnieMoe says her photo was taken from about the middle of the top deck. Judging by the buildings, Taylor and Hezarkhani were both somewhat to the right of this position (so the trees are not exactly seen from the same angle), and a little farther back (which would make the trees appear somewhat shorter relative to the buildings, and of course the trees have had six years of additional growth since 2001). I believe this indicates that EeneyMinnieMoe's ferry was probably at the same dock as the Taylor/Hezarkhani ferry, but they were both farther toward the stern and farther back from the railing.

Despite these minor differences, this photo refutes the contention by bsregistration (a.k.a. Fred) in numerous videos and promoted by Killtown and other "no-planers" (including our own spooked911) that the images must have been faked because there was no location from which they could have been taken. (Fred's "proof" of that claim was a video shot from the pier, in which the trees appeared to be too tall relative to the buildings.)

[defendandprotect]

1. I don't think anyone is challenging where Carmen Taylor said she was standing . . .

because there is a recording of a telephone conversation with her and she explains she was on a ferry -- docked. But she has no recognition of seeing anyone right near her -- Hezarkhani --
who would have been pretty much right next to her.

As far as I understand the challenge is to whether her photo is actually from the Herzarkhani
video.

And it's all looking a bit Hollywood at this point.

[William Seger]

2. Well, you're wrong, again

As I said, bsregistration/Fred has posted numerous obnoxious and bloviating videos on LiveVideo.com, YouTube.com, and Mefeedia.com claiming the Hezarkhani video had to be fake because he couldn't find the spot in Battery Park from which is was taken, and many other no-planer crackpots have promoted that notion based on his "research." He deleted my comments on his LiveVideo.com blog pointing out the Hezarkhani must have been near Taylor, and that Taylor said she was on the ferry.

And no, the Taylor photo is certainly not taken from the Hezarkhani video, as claimed by another crackpot "researcher" who couldn't see the obvious difference in the points of view. By my estimate, Hezarkhani was about 20 feet to Taylor's left, and it's clearly irrelevant whether or not Taylor was aware of that:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=120454

[defendandprotect]

7. Note . . . "they" Taylor and Herzarkhani were not together . . . Taylor doesn't know where he was --

Your response refers to an attack on Hezarkhani video --

Again, here's a link to the Carmen Taylor telephone conversation where she makes clear where she was and that she didn't see Hezarkhani -- though, given the near identical nature of their photos, they must have been hip to hip.

http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=1668

As I said before, it doesn't seem to be a question of "where" Taylor was standing, but whether her photo is simply a shot from Hezarkhani's video.

I would suggest further that many of the photos look fake -- especially the fireballs --
very Hollywood.


quote
I don't think anyone is challenging where Carmen Taylor said she was standing . . .
because there is a recording of a telephone conversation with her and she explains she was on a ferry -- docked. But she has no recognition of seeing anyone right near her -- Hezarkhani --
who would have been pretty much right next to her.

As far as I understand the challenge is to whether her photo is actually from the Herzarkhani
video.

And it's all looking a bit Hollywood at this point. UNQUOTE

[William Seger]

9. I'm not sure why I should keep repeating myself

... but one more time, as I said before, this is a response to the crackpots who claim the Hezarkhani video is a fake because they claim there isn't any place that provides that view. I told you specifically who that was and where you could find their videos. I don't know why you think I or anyone else should be interested in the fact that you weren't aware of that claim.

And I gave you a link to a DU posting that makes it quite clear that the Taylor photo is definitely from a different location -- about 20 feet to Hezarkhani's right, in fact, not "hip to hip" -- so it cannot possibly be "a shot from Hezarkhani's video." So, I don't know why you think I or anyone else should still be interested in an absurd and already debunked claim made by another bunch of crackpots who obviously aren't very observant: Even if you (like dailykoff) don't understand the perfect stereo effect discussed in that posting (and why it's very strong evidence that the pictures are real), you should be able to just look at the two pictures and notice that Taylor's shot shows a gap between the Athletic Club building and the north tower whereas Hezarkhani's does not.

And, I don't know why you mention yet again that Taylor didn't notice another tourist on the boat, 20 feet away, who was shooting a video while she was concentrating on taking her photos, as if that has any significance whatsoever to those of us who are not crackpots.

[dailykoff]

3. Whoever shot this, the very first frame is easily proven fake.

Notice that the smoke is blurred and the plane is in focus? If the shutter speed wasn't fast enough to capture the smoke crisply, it sure as heck wouldn't capture the plane, which was moving many times faster than the smoke.

So right off the bat we know Carmen's photos are fake. Who shot them and where hardly matters, but my guess is they're all taken from the same high-resolution video camera that was used for most or all of the 911 "plane" photography broadcast on 911.

[William Seger]

4. LMAO

:rofl:

[achtung_circus]

5. So smoke has discrete edges??

That's one of the funniest things I've ever read here.

[dailykoff]

6. It depends on the camera, but yes, it often does.

It mainly depends on the shutter speed and one or two other camera settings. There are many 911 photos where the smoke is in crisper focus, for example this one:

[William Seger]

11. I wanna see a picture showing "crisp edges" on the smoke...

... coming off your bong.

[achtung_circus]

12. Often,

not always. Check out the phenomenum called smoke density.

I remain,
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[dailykoff]

14. What's a phenomenum?

Let me guess, euphemism for number 2? :)

[achtung_circus]

15. Phenomenon.

Happy?

Address the density issue, or not.

Deflection is easier.

On Edit:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[defendandprotect]

8. Telephone conversation with Carmen Taylor re the photo . . . .

http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=1668

It's looks like her camera is a dog ---

[William Seger]

10. Yeah, she sure sounds like a NWO agent, huh

:eyes:

That camera cost $1300 when it was new, and Sony cameras have always had decent lenses. If you were trying to make some point, you seem to have forgotten to actually make it.

[defendandprotect]

13. Read what those on the photographic website say about the camera . . ..

I have no point to make about assessing cameras --

I'm pointing you to what THEY are saying about it --

And, again, they also seem to think that the Harzarkian film is from a movie grade camera -- ???

[deen]

16. Why does it look like the building in the middle is missing?

And why does the top photo the only one that looks like a real photo?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WQ1RZ]

18. Video refutes Wseger claims

From ozzybinoswald2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaNtU11lISI

[wildbilln864]

19. Well, well, well...

excellent post!
thanks for it.

[William Seger]

21. "Sluuuuuuuurrrpp"

Please explain to me in your own words how that video "refutes Wseger claims." Fred isn't doing so well on his own.

[wildbilln864]

22. I think he's doing quite well on his own. n/t

[William Seger]

23. Really? Then let's BOTH keep kicking it

[William Seger]

20. Well, hiya, Fred

... or surrogate Fred, or bsregistration/Peggy Carter/ozzybinoswald2/whatever. (I hope you'll pardon my confusion since it seems that sometimes you get confused yourself.) So why did you start a new blog entry when there was a perfectly good one already going?

http://www.911researchers.com/node/579

People will miss out on all the hilarity by going to your new one. (Oh... or was that the reason?) And, of course, it would be nice to finish discussing your idiotic "trees in the way" claims before launching into more idiocy about 19 Rector St.

So, what are you dressing as for Halloween? I'm guessing big red nose and long floppy shoes, right? Maybe you could get together a bunch of your "no-planer theorist" friends and squeeze into one of those little cars? But I digress.

Are you ready to discuss this photo yet?



Since you went to all the trouble to find your way here, I guess I should give you a little help with your "research." (I'm going to wait for your fellow "researchers" to weigh in before posting this on your blog, but I assume you've already given all the "analysis" you are capable of on your own.) First, here's that wide shot from the Hezarkhani video that I mentioned:



And here's Taylor's wide shot (cropped to match the above):



(This pair has been run through StereoPhotoMaker to align for a stereographic view and then cropped to the same size. The buildings make a viewable stereo pair -- more evidence that they are genuine, btw -- but the trees are hard to "fuse" because of the wide separation of the two cameras.) Notice that the "notch" in the tree line between the towers and the buildings on the far right in the Hezarkhani shot match the notch at the base of the south tower in the Taylor shot. Notice now that the deeper notch to the left is also in both. From there, I hope that even you can identify the same trees in both shots.

The same notch is seen about in the middle of that shot the JREFer took and the deeper notch to the left is also seen, so you should now be able to identify the same trees in all three shots. From that, you should be able to see that line of sight toward the buildings in the new shot falls right between the Hezarkhani and Taylor lines of sight. (That can also be confirmed by stereographic analysis of the building views, but I realize from the beginning of that blog posting that you don't understand stereo photography, so let's skip that for now.)

Now, it's true that the trees appear to be somewhat taller relative to the buildings in this new shot. It's hard to say now how much of that is due to six years of extra growth, but it's also possible for the actual elevation of the camera to be somewhat different from Taylor/Hezarkhani (or appear to be different, if the trees are used as to judge it). That could be because of a number of reasons, such as tides on the Hudson (it's an estuary), a different boat that's not exactly the same height as the one they were on, simply being close to the railing instead of at the center of the boat, or a combination of reasons.

Nonetheless, this new photo was clearly taken within a few feet of the Hezarkhani and Taylor images. What I see here is documentary evidence that substantially corroborates Taylor's claim to have been on the top deck of a ferry at that dock. What I see here is proof that your uncounted number of crappy "look! the trees block the view!" videos (complete with porn movie soundtracks), using a video you shot from the pier sidewalk, are a giant steaming pile of bullshit. What I see on your blog is the assertion that your "claim stands" and you don't intend to take down the videos despite proof that your "evidence" is a giant steaming pile of bullshit. What I don't see on your blog is any explanation of why you twice deleted my postings on your LiveVideo blog, where I informed you that Hezarkhani must have been very near Taylor on the ferry deck, not standing down there on the pier where you shot your video.

So, what have you got to say for yourself that you think anyone here should be interested in reading?

[porsche911]

24. Video is Clearly Fake

I believe that 19 fanatical Arabs brought down all the World Trade Center Buildings with boxcutters. But it's clear now that that CNN video is fake. The Hezarkhani guy is probably some scam artist trying to make money. You can see here http://www.911researchers.com/node/1011 that there is no match at all, not even close.

I know JREF wouldn't lie so if they can't take a matching photo that's proof enough for me.

[William Seger]

25. No, your "proof" of that is clearly fake

... since you didn't use the photo that was taken from the same angle as the Hezarkhani video, and instead used the one where you can see 19 Rector. Who do you think you're fooling? 19 Rector is clearly behind a tree in both the Hezarkhani video and the photo taken from the same angle.

And if you want to have a pissing contest with me, leave JREF out of it. A JREFer took the photo at my request, period.

[sparka]

26. "Pissing Contest"

I alerted the mods again. If you claim the photo was taken from the correct spot and matches the CNN video and can do a better job on the overlay then go right ahead. Instead you're engaging in childish name-calling. I have no interest in your "pissing contest", my only desire is to see you stop lying. You claimed you would travel to New York in September and post video matching the CNN fake. You did not. You have been unable to come up with a single photograph taken from the location on Carmen Taylor or Michael Hezarkhani and you've disgraced yourself in the process.

It's an insult to the readers and posters of DU that you engage in this sort of behavior and I hope that the moderators will put a stop to it.

[wildbilln864]

27. Welcome to the dungeon sparka!

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

30. I like the part where the hole in the building "heals" itself as plane moves thru -- !!!

Hollywood -- !!!

[Laurier]

28. Nicely done, William Seger.

It is obvious from the recent photos that you've posted that you have identified the location and put paid to the ludicrous claims of the (aptly named) "bs" person. Once again proving that there is much, much more to educating oneself about the events of 9/11 than investigoogling, which is all that troofers seem to do.

Well done.

[deen]

29. That new photo doesn't show the black building

so don't congratulate him just yet. The photo and video contradict themselves so far.