They frame Islamic fundamentalists, don't they? But not on 9/11?

[Abe Linkman]

From today's Xymphora site:


Wednesday, August 04, 2004


Somebody has apparently taken credit for the bombing of Christian churches in Iraq, and here is a paragraph from an article (or here) about it, with my italics added:

"'You wanted a crusader war, so these are the results. ... We warned you,' the statement by a little-known Islamist group calling itself the Planning and Follow-Up Organization in Iraq said on a site where a number of claims have been posted in recent weeks."

It has become absurdly easy to frame whatever group is supposed to take the blame for an atrocity. Hire a few thugs - who may or may not know what they are supposed to be doing - to set the bombs, tell someone to stand next to a certain car before the bombing (his remains become the remains of the 'suicide bomber'), and make up some posting on the internet by a 'little-known' group to take credit for it. Instant Islamic fundamentalist attack. There is not the tiniest bit of real evidence of who set the bombs, but everyone, with the assistance of the press which knows how to frame the reporting in line with the Official Story, falls into line. It seems to make no difference that the thrust of the story makes absolutely no sense in the context of the real battle that is being fought in Iraq.
posted at 1:28 AM permanent link



SPINNERS: Mount your Spinning Wheels & start your Disinfo work NOW.

[seatnineb]

1. Mystery of Mombasa

Abe my friend......

Why don't we put a spoke in those proverbial spinning wheels................

Remember the Mombassa "suicide" bombing.............

We were told this happened........

At 8.35 a.m. - a dark green Pajero sport utility vehicle pulled up outside the tall wooden entrance towers of the Paradise Hotel. Witnesses said the four-wheel drive vehicle had driven back and forth several times past the gate.

Inside the car were two, perhaps three, young men with short-cropped hair, said witnesses. Some said they looked African. Others said they were of Arab descent.

The car then revved its engine and came "at full speed," crashing through the gate, making its way to the lobby of the hotel, lined with lion sculptures.

Some witnesses said one of the men, strapped with explosives, ran from the car and detonated himself in the reception area. The other two bombers stayed in the car, which exploded.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/4626123.htm?1c

But according to other eye-witnesses at the very same scene..
Something far more sinister happened............

Earlier reports by hotel staff who said they saw a light plane circle over the hotel and drop three packages at the time of the explosion. The huge blasts shattered windows and masonry along the front of the hotel, incinerated vehicles parked nearby and set fire to grass roofs of the outbuildings, reducing their wooden frames to smoldering hulks. Stone walls were all that remained of the lobby.
http://www.mysitemadebig.com/osoropj/index.cfm?page=1498

Look at the damage inflicted on this Hotel ..........






So wad happened to this plane.And where did it come from?
Where did it go?

Wad happened to the eye-witnesses who saw this plane?

What the f**k was goin on?

[Abe Linkman]

2. They'll probably say it was just a coincidence, and what really happened..

is that what that plane dropped was actually fire retardant and it was just one of those "negligent, communication failures" that unfortunately happen sometimes.

Besides, as Mr. Murky would say: "You can't prove that ISN'T what happened."

[seatnineb]

4. Like Mombassa...Like Istanbul............

Well Abe........

Judging by the lack of spinning responses so far.......
I think you made a good point........

And just for good measure.....
We'll let the spinners chew over another virtual "suicide" bombing...

This was the "suicide" bombing in front of the Neve Shalom Synagogue in Istanbul........

You will recall this is what they say happened......

In what Turkish police consider an important lead, a security camera at one of the synagogues filmed a suicide bomber as he drove a pick up truck packed with explosives. Police say they are trying to identify the truck driver. Police add they have further evidence pointing to likely involvement of an international group in the deadly suicide attacks against two Istanbul synagogues.
http://www.vnis.com/story.cfm?textnewsid=635

This "suicide" attack also came with the "post proof" evidence....

Investigators uncovered the remains of a new victim AND A PAKISTANI PASSPORT amid the rubble of two synagogues attacked by suicide bombers over the weekend, Turkish authorities said Monday.
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/7285672.htm

But here comes the sucker punch........
Because the initial report of this "suicide" attack was as follows......

Security officials told Anatolia news agency a security camera at one of the synagogues showed a person parking a car outside the building and LEAVING and then the vehicle blowing up. http://independent-bangladesh.com/news/nov/16/16112003ap.htm

Gee .............
Al Cia'da sure do have some weird "(un)suicidal" bombers.......

So explosives dropped from a plane (instead of suicide bombers in a truck) in Mombassa.....

A remotely detonated truck(instead of a suicide bomber in a truck) in Istanbul..........

I see a pattern emerging here..........

[Bolo Boffin]

5. So let me get this straight:

Whenever you get what you call "spinning responses", it's proof that you're right...

And now when you don't get "spinning responses", it's proof that you're right.

There's a little term called unfalsifiable that you should check into.

[seatnineb]

6. A 9/11 would-be hijacker who can't commit suicide........

Yo Bols........

You need to take notes from such masterful spinners......

Like.........

9/11 mastermind,Ramzi Binalshib(I assume that you believe what this man says ,do you not ,Bolo?)

Ramzi Binalshib,the man who wished a 1000 9/11's on The United States.....

Ramzi Binalshib,the man who ,but for a visa denial ,would have willfully martyred himself along with the other 19 "brothers" in the "Holy Tuesday" operation.

But when cornered in an upmarket Karachi kitchen by the Pakistani security forces(on 9/11/2002) ,Ramzi Binalshib,the unfulfilled 9/11/01 hijacker,who said he could so easily take his own life and the life of others faster than you can say .....Al-Cia'da..... chose............LIFE!

In the space of a few minutes(or seconds) Ramzi Binalshib,who knew, that if he were to be caught ALIVE ,would run the risk of compromising the integrity of his beloved Al-Quida........

So..........
Lets examine yet another indefensible 9/11 paradox that Bolo and Co will probably fail to defend.....

Lets brake it down by posting the missed markers for Binalshib to meet Allah himself.....

According to the Masterminds Of Terror book.........
By Yosri Fouda and Nick Fielding
Published By Mainstream Publishing
Pages 17 + 18

"by this time the 3 remaining men(including Binalshib) were cornered in the windowless kitchen,USING A RIFLE to fire at the officers"

Chance #1 missed for Binalshib to turn the rifle on himself and meet Allah..........

"One of the militants ran outside of the room and was shot dead by police."

Chance#2 missed for Binalshib to run outside the room and be shot dead by the police.......and hence meet the almighty Allah........

"Back inside the room ,the rifle jammed and the 2 men began throwing anything they could-KITCHEN KNIVES,forks and pans at the officers"

Chance #3 for Binalshib to turn the knife on himself and meet the all-seeing Allah......(Hell Binalshib's 9/11 buddies managed to kill pilots,flight attendants and passengers with knives that were less than 4 inches long!)

"The police then fired tear gas into the tiny room and within seconds the 2 men walked out with their hands in the air.The Second man fell to his knees and as he did so made a grab for one of the rangers guns.He was forcibly subdued,though he struggled fiercely,reciting verses from the Koran and shouting "you are going to hell!" in Arabic."

Chance #4 for Binalshib to grab the ranger's gun and turn it on himself so he can meet the all-knowing Allah..........

As I said Al-Cia'da do have the weirdest suicidal tendencies within their ranks.........

[LARED]

7. The proper perspective to have

is that these radical Islamists view themselves as martyrs - committing suicide would be viewed as cowardly and displeasing to allah.

I believe it is an important distinction in their warped minds.

[seatnineb]

8. Nice try LARED..........

But this........
These radical Islamists view themselves as martyrs - committing suicide would be viewed as cowardly and displeasing to allah.

I believe it is an important distinction in their warped minds.

Does not wash with....

Regards to Ramzi"I would have joined the 9/11 brothers if I could have" Binalshib........

According to the parameters of the official story........
Ramzi Binalshib knew too much about 9/11 and Al-Quida to run the risk of being caught ALIVE by the Pakistanis and the Americans.....

So here we have yet another 9/11 paradox......
Ramzi Binalshib declares that he would so easily have killed himself
to kill others(on 9/11) for the beliefs(Al-Quida and Wahhibi Islam)that he held so dear...

Yet when confronted with the FACT that the Pakistani security forces had him cornered and that there was NO chance for him to escape......
Ramzi Binalshib elected to LIVE and in so doing, knew that he would compromise the very things(Al-Quida) that he held so dear......

Ramzi Binalshib had a Rifle and A Kitchen Knife.........
By killimg himself Al-Quida's deepest secrets would have been kept safe......

Commiting Suicide should not have been that difficult FOR Ramzi Binalshib.....
Considering he was prepared die on a plane that would fly into a building.......

Dont ya think?

Kiss good-bye to your hard core -would-be suicide bomber mythology........

[MercutioATC]

9. Actually, you just made LARED's point for him.

To die for the cause is honorable. To commit suicide is unthinkable.

They're two completely different things.

[seatnineb]

10. Wrong Again Merc..........

I guess it is not pleasant for you guys to see the suicide bomber motive being ripped away from beneath you.......

Like Binalshib........
There is no escape from the paradox that you are eager to keep afloat...

Binalshib had to commit suicide to preserve "the cause's" most innate secrets...........

But did not do it..........
Despite the fact that he was motivated to kill himself on 9/11 for the very same "cause"!

As I said ....

Kiss-good-bye to your Al-Cia'da suicide bomber mythology......

[MercutioATC]

11. You're assuming that he planned to divulge those secrets when

he was captured.

If he had no intention of doing so at the time he was captured, his suicide would have been considered a weakness, not "preserv "the cause's" most innate secrets".

There is a distinct difference between committing suicide because of weakness and giving one's life for "the cause".

[seatnineb]

12. Lets see you put that "distinct difference" into practise.........

O.K Merc........

Lets play ball...........

Answer me this simple question.........

If you can..........

Why did Ramzi Binalshib and 2 other men fire that rifle and throw those knives at the Pakistani Security forces in a windowless kitchen , in an upmarket appartement in Karachi , in Pakistan ,on 9/11/2002?

Who and what were Ramzi Binalshib and these 2 other men trying to defend?

[MercutioATC]

13. The Pakistanis were attempting to apprehend them. They fought back.

What's so odd about that? Hundreds of criminals do it every year.

They weren't trying to "defend" anything. Thay were attempting to avoid capture.

[seatnineb]

14. Whoops!

Careful Mercutio...........

And why was Ramzi Binalshib trying to avoid capture?

Answer it.........

[LARED]

15. He's allergic to prison food? (n/t)

[MercutioATC]

16. Because he preferred not to be a prisoner???

Again, plenty of people seek to avoid capture. That doesn't mean they're doing it to protect some secret knowledge...

[seatnineb]

18. Your running out of ideas and excuses.

Mercutio........

And why did Ramzi Binalshib not wish to be imprisoned ?

Answer it.

[LARED]

19. Why don't you answer it.

There are only about 10,000 reasons why anyone would not wish to be imprisoned.

Is there some point to this? Just spit it out.

[MercutioATC]

20. Would YOU want to be imprisoned?

Are you avoiding imprisonment just because you have dark secrets you don't want to be forced to tell?

Look, I get your drift. I just think it's overly simplistic and completely devoid of rational thought.

[seatnineb]

21. Wow! You are showing your true colours here!

Mercutio and LARED.........

Still unable to answer or unwilling to answer.......

But just for good measure......

I will ask again.......

Why did Ramzi Binalshib not want to be imprisoned?

Answer it.

[MercutioATC]

22. Is English not your first language?

I believe we've both answered the question, with varying levels of humor.

Why did O.J. run? Was he concerned about betraying his terrorist bretheren's innermost secrets? No, he just didn't want to be imprisoned.

You're honestly asking me why Ramzi Binalshibh didn't want to be imprisoned? Please.....

[seatnineb]

23. Oh dear!

Whats the matter Mercutio and LARED?

Judging by your evasive answers so far..I would say that you are both gutted that the ilusionary truth(Al-Quida suicide bombers) that you hold so dear has been shattered by the fact that...........

A would be 9/11 hijacker could not commit suicide......

It is obviously something that you cannot defend or comprehend.........
Too bad.......


Try and prove me wrong.........

I will keep on giving you the opportunities......

Why did Ramzi Binalshib not wish to be imprisoned?

Answer it.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Abe Linkman]

25. That may be - but the fact remains, you couldn't/wouldn't answ. the ?

Nothing new for the murkster, but there it is. Another stark example of
someone who "believes" (worships?), or says they believe the "Cave Men Did It", the windowless airliner had windows, the video image that shows a plane that couldn't possibly be a 757 --- is "too grainy" for proof of what it is (never mind, that if it ISN'T a 757 - their fairy tale collapses), the nine foot circular exit hole WAS TO made by something...flying fuel?, and now this latest example.

The evidence continues to pile up, but the apologists/spinners still won't get off their Spinning Wheels.

[Bolo Boffin]

26. : ) We still love you, guy.

It gets frustrating in the fray, especially when seat9B keeps flogging the same "contradiction."

It does no good to point out that suicide bombers want to commit their heinous acts in front of television cameras or in a large public square, where they can kill some people and get on the news. Ramad (sp?)'s last stand against his Pakistani captors fulfilled none of those requirements, so after fighting to elude capture, he gives up. What's going to keep him from spreading disinformation as a hostile informant in jail?

Regardless, seat9B imagines that he's got you on the ropes. He doesn't. Let him bash his straw man all he wants. You got the facts, Merc. Keep up the good work.

[seatnineb]

29. Bulls-Eye!

Bolo........

If you really do believe what we think you believe........

Then if I were you I would retract this last statement quickly.

For in the words of the honorable Bolo......
Ramad (sp?)'s last stand against his Pakistani captors fulfilled none of those requirements, so after fighting to elude capture, he gives up. What's going to keep him from spreading disinformation as a hostile informant in jail?

So Bolo, ol'buddy ,lets look at the disinformation that Ramzi Binalshib has spread since being apprehended........

The authorities interviewing an alleged member of Al Qaeda in military custody overseas are investigating a new theory of the Sept. 11 plot - that the suspect, Ramzi Binalshibh, was planning to pilot a fifth hijacked plane to strike the White House. The plan was disrupted when Binalshibh, who was captured last month in Pakistan..

This theory has gained momentum in recent weeks as investigators have assembled new details about Binalshibh's movements around Europe in the months before the attacks. Investigators have also compiled a fuller picture of his relationship with Mohamed Atta, an alleged ringleader of the plot, and uncovered fresh information about the breadth of Al Qaeda's original plan for the attacks

The officials said that Binalshibh's role in the plot was a main topic of his interrogation in secret at an undisclosed military base outside the United States.

Military officers have asked Binalshibh about organizational changes in Al Qaeda since the Sept. 11 attacks last year, and about plans for further attacks, in the hope that they can help protect U.S. troops overseas.
.
The officials said that Binalshibh had so far provided only fragmentary information about the hijackings and Al Qaeda's activities since the war in Afghanistan. The officials said that he had not acknowledged that he planned to lead another hijacking group.

Yup!
This is disinformation of the highest calibre.

Such a shame that this is the very same(dis)information that Bolo,Merc and LARED et al inhale as if it were air itself.........

[seatnineb]

27. Keep going Merc.......

Pretty much what I expected........

The really funny thing is that Ramzi Binalshib would have approved of the feeble efforts of Bolo,MercATC and LARED to defend the indefensible........

After all when he recounted his and Al-Quiada's story (shortly before being arrested)to Yosri Fouda...........

He was not too impressed with those(conspiracy theorists)
"WHO TRIED TO STRIP THE BROTHERS(9/11 hijackers) OF THEIR CREDIT!"

Dulce,Abe,BeFree,K-Robjoe,PerpetuallyInquisitive,Demodewd,BlueMember,
NeccessaryOnslaught,tngledwebb,Americandansk....
If ya'all are reading.......

Lets continue to strip those "brothers" until they are practically naked in the broad daylight of truth!

[Abe Linkman]

30. The "Hold Your NoZe Brotherhood" -- pros or wannabees?

I'm with you, seatnineb. OJ Simpson's lawyers know the truth, even though they can't say what they really think. OJ's protected by the lawyer-client privilege. The "NoZe Brothers" stoutly defend Osama
as being something that he isn't, all the while pretending that they really, really do believe the "Wacky Cavemen Did It" Official Conspiracy
Theory...they just aren't 100% certain which combination of negligence, intel failures, and bureaucratic snafus is the best explanation for how
9/11 happened without it being a magic trick.

It would be a mistake to allow them to get away with the "might be" excuse...especially as along as they won't admit that THEY might be the ones who are intentionally or unintentionally supporting the greatest Gov't hoax on the world since the JFK assassination and the subsequent coverup (Warren Commission) of THAT inside job conspiracy.

How long do you think WE would last on a right-wing forum if we pretended to be right-wingers, but did everything we could to undermine the ideas presented by the other posters there?

[seatnineb]

31. Yeah!

Abe.........

We would last as long on such a forum.....
About as long as it takes to say.....Al-Cia'da!

[LARED]

28. ditto!!!!! (n/t)

[DulceDecorum]

32. Re: blithering idiots

How come the suicide bombers
always blow themselves up
and destroy a building or two
and maybe even a vehicle or two
AND YET
their ID papers
which are in the pocket touching the bomb
are ALWAYS
intact,
legible,
never left at home?

For extra credit:
if TriState Crematory did not cremate anyone for a period of several years
and funeral homes over THREE STATES were sending them corpses on a DAILY BASIS
and they only located about 300 bodies,
WHERE DID THE OTHER ONES GO?

Who needs a steady supply of human corpses?
And WHAT do they need them for?

[LARED]

33. Is that an example?

or a rejoinder? :)

[seatnineb]

39. Virtual suicide bombing...........

Keep running LARED.....

This "suicide" bomber actually got out and walked away from the vehicle that he was going to "martyr" himself in.....

Security officials told Anatolia news agency a security camera at one of the synagogues showed a person parking a car outside the building and LEAVING and then the vehicle blowing up. http://independent-bangladesh.com/news/nov/16/16112003a...

But this still ended up being a suicide bomb attack!

In what Turkish police consider an important lead, a security camera at one of the synagogues filmed a suicide bomber as he drove a pick up truck packed with explosives. Police say they are trying to identify the truck driver. Police add they have further evidence pointing to likely involvement of an international group in the deadly suicide attacks against two Istanbul synagogues.
http://www.vnis.com/story.cfm?textnewsid=635

Oh and look LARED.........

As Dulce said.......

Where would a suicide bombing be without a surviving passport!

Investigators uncovered the remains of a new victim AND A PAKISTANI PASSPORT amid the rubble of two synagogues attacked by suicide bombers over the weekend, Turkish authorities said Monday.
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/7285672.htm

Oh and LARED........
Don't bother to say that were 2 people in this vehicle.
You ain't gonna find one link or news article that backs up that claim.
But if ya don't believe me.......
Go surf......
Don't expect to hear from you in a long time.......

[DulceDecorum]

45. Can't tell the difference?

Or finally admitting the fact?

[DulceDecorum]

46. Try again LARED.

You did not asnwer the first few questions.

1) How come the suicide bombers always have indestructible IDs?
2) Since there are 365 days in a year,
and TriState Crematory allegedly did not creamate bodies sent to it ALMOST DAILY from 1988 to 2002 (14 years)
and they only located about 340 separate remains,
what did they do with the other corpses?
3) Who needs a steady supply of human corpses?
4) And WHAT do they need them for?

It is interesting that
NO-ONE is asking Mr. Marsh WHAT he did with several THOUSAND missing corpses
or WHERE he exported them.
We know that they ain't in Georgia.
And we know that they were dead
BEFORE they ever got to wherever the heck it was that they were going.
And we also know that Bush was somehow involved in this thing.
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2001_02/fulltext/hr1293.htm
http://www.americanpolitics.com/20020304Baker.html
http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2001-01-26/pols_naked5.html
http://www.bushwatch.com/gravedigger.htm

But LARED,
you are so very smart
and you are such a font of information that
we cannot help but ask you to tell us,
where are the bodies?

And on a similar note,
what's up with this?
http://www.jewishsf.com/bk010608/comm3.shtml
http://bahai-library.com/newspapers/cemetary.html
http://www.jewishmediaresources.com/article/66/
Such irony.
In the US, a crematory with no bodies.
Over there, bodies with no cemeteries.

We are not condoning anyone.
We can see what bomb-packing terrorists have done to the living.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/stlmnt_empty_haartz.html
http://www.radioislam.org/historia/zionism/stlmn_empty.html
http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=6949
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/bring_js_052001.html

Those people who were seen dancing
as they watched the collapse of the WTC
will not be satisfied until after we are all dead.

[LARED]

34. Are you a mind reader?

A would be 9/11 hijacker could not commit suicide......

How do you know he could not commit suicide?

[seatnineb]

35. Mind reader of Binalshib the bullshitter....

LARED pathetically asks......
How do you know he(Ramzi Binalshib) could not commit suicide?

Answer:

He is still ALIVE.

It was Binalshib himself who told Yosri Fouda that ...
"You have to pay a tax to go to paradise!".
He was refering to the Visa that he could not obtain to get into the U.S so he could die and kill on 9/11/01.

But on 9/11/02.......
Binalshib could have gone to paradise free of charge!
He had 2 hours(the duration of the gun battle with the security forces)to kill himself.

And we know the result.

Sorry LARED....
Your friend Ramzi Binalshib:
Talks the talk.
But he........
Can't walk the walk.

[LARED]

37. What kind of answer is that?

What's the matter seatnineb?

Your evasive answers is to be expected. How delusional does one have to be to to fail to grasp the meaning of "could."

The fact that he is still alive in no way means he could not commit suicide. He clearly had the means at hand.

Now answer the question if you can.

[seatnineb]

42. Kiss good-bye to Binalshib the brave......

LARED
You are beginning to write like a punch drunk boxer.

What does this mean?
To quote the the K.O'd LARED.........
The fact that he is still alive in no way means he could not commit suicide. He clearly had the means at hand

If you are refering to the knife and the rifle.
Yeah.... Ramzi Binalshib had the means at hand to kill himself.

But I guess that would have been a cowardly thing to do in the world of Merc and LARED........eh?

How cowardly does this sound......

Al-Quida leader captured after throwing pots and forks at the Pakistani security forces in a windowless kitchen exactly a year to the day of 9/11/01.
The above is pretty much how they say it happened.
Ramzi initially did have the chance with that rifle to go out in a blaze of glory.....

Come on LARED.
Hit me with something harder.

[LARED]

17. Serious question

Do you completely discount the possibility that the motivation for Ramzi Binalshib's actions could be explained by viewing "dying for the cause" and "committing suicide" as distinctly different motivators for the radical Islamist.

[seatnineb]

36. Seriouse Reply.

Ramzi Binalshib would have still been dying for "the cause" if he had killed himself before the Pakistani security forces could get hold of him...........

Gee......
Ramzi should have taken notes from the Tamil Tigers.........
They would take cyanide with them just in case there should be a chance that they might be caught by the Sri Lankan goverment.

As I said
Binalshib talks the talk......
But he and the official story that he stands for.......
Can't walk the walk.

[LARED]

38. If that's a serious reply

I have vastly overestimated you.

There is a huge difference between committing suicide and dying for the cause. The fact that you are even implying that is this case, there is no difference points to desperation.

If he had went out in a blaze taking as many security forces as he could with him then he is dying for the cause, putting a bullet in your head so you don't get captured is the cowards way out.

But you know that.

[seatnineb]

40. Gotcha!

LARED my man......

Ramzi Bibalshib had a rifle.

He could have gone out there in a "blaze of glory".
Taking out as many security forces as he wanted to.
And probably die at the same time.

He did not do it.

You and Ramzi have much in common.......
You both try to defend the indefensible.

Producing pretty much the same result....
A paradox.

See ya later pal!

[LARED]

41. Ramzi Bibalshib had a rifle.

So, he could have committed suicide.

But he didn't.

Is there some point you are trying to make?

He could have gone out in a blaze of glory. He didn't.
He could have committed suicide. He didn't.

And you think this proves something??????

[seatnineb]

43. Point proven!

No further questions your honour!

But just for extra emphasis to those who might be reading.......

Before being arrested ,Ramzi Binalshib was not too impressed with the litany of conspiracy theories that were.........
"Stripping the brothers(9/11 hijackers) of their credit!.

All the posts that LARED,Bolo and MercATC have put on this thread are
a mirror reflection of what Binalshib says in the above statement.

No wonder LARED,Bolo and MercATC are keen to preserve Binalshib's image as a hard-core terrorist who could blow his own and other innocent lives away faster than you could say Al-Cia'da!

Too bad.
Ramzi Binalshib is nothing more than a 2 faced liar.
A deciever.
A fraud.

Just like the 9/11 official story in which Ramzi Binalshib plays a pivotal part.

[LARED]

44. Permit me one more question

What planet are you from?

[seatnineb]

47. I am from the planet called "Read Between The Lines".

It is not for no reason that I said Ramzi Binalshib is :
A Liar.
A Deceiver.
A Fraud.

LARED says
If he(Ramzi Binalshib) had went out in a blaze taking as many security forces as he could with him then he is dying for the cause, putting a bullet in your head so you don't get captured is the cowards way out.

Which might be a reasonable assumption but for one problem.....
Ramzi Binalshib DID MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THAT HE HAD TRIED to go out "in a blaze of glory".
Only he purposefully tried too late!
When he knew the chance of going out in a "blaze of glory" was NILL.
The same Ramzi Binalshib who boasted that he would have gone out "in a blaze of glory" on 9/11/01......
When he had more than enough time AND MOTIVATION(if he was really so hard-core) to have gone out "in a blaze of glory" whilst being captured on 9/11/02.

From the Mastermind Of Terror book:
By Yosri Fouda And Nick Fielding.
Published By Mainstream Publishing.
Page18.

The first (man) made a grab for one of the rangers guns.
He was forcibly subdued,though he struggled fiercely,reciting verses from the Koran and shouting "You are going to hell!" in Arabic.
A security man showed the prisoner at the window to the crowd below and flashed a sign that the battle was over.Down below in the streets the local police unleashed a fusillade of shots in celebration,emptying their magazines,despite calls for restraint.
<snip>The prisoner by this time down at street level,<snip>...... was none other than Ramzi Binalshib.


Ramzi Binalshib had 2 hours during the battle to go out in a "blaze of glory".But he purposefully wasted the rifle and the kitchen knives on the Pakistani security forces(incidentally, killing none of them),rather than turning these weapons on-himself.......And like the true deceiver he is......he never had any intention of turning these weapons on himself...at any point.

And unlike LARED and MercATC would have us believe........
There was plenty for Ramzi Binalshib(if he was the real deal) to defend and die for in that Karachi apartment on 9/11/02.
Just look what the Pakistani police found and then turned over to the all pervasive F.B.I once the battle was over.........

Police also recovered a satellite telephone,several laptops and mobile phones,a few CD's,some books,a Russian AK-47 rifle,a pistol,2 hand grenades and dozens of rounds of ammunition.
A large number of travel documents were recovered,including travel documents-passports and identification papers..
From the Mastermind Of Terror book:
By Yosri Fouda And Nick Fielding.
Published By Mainstream Publishing.
Page 19.


If he was so hard-core,why didn't Ramzi just set fire to all of this stuff........
Immolating himself and anyone who tried to stop him in the process?

The security forces never entered the building (where Ramzi was) until after 10:00am .The battle had begun outside at roughly 9:30am.
That means Ramzi Binalshib had half-hour to ignite these "combustibles" and destroy them before the Pakistanis and the Americans could get their hands on this "material evidence".

Conclusion:
Ramzi Binalshib allowed himself to be captured ALIVE on purpose.
And why did he do this........
Our good friend Bolo,the brave, has already inadvertently provided one answer........
What's going to keep him(Ramzi Binalshib) from spreading disinformation as a hostile informant in jail?

But this disinformation is disinformation that suits BushCo's agenda and amplifies the myths of the official story of 9/11.
Not the "oppressed Muslims" that Bibalshib deceptively tries to represent.
Proof is in the pudding.........

The officials said that Binalshibh's role in the plot was a main topic of his interrogation in secret at an undisclosed military base outside the United States.

Military officers have asked Binalshibh about organizational changes in Al Qaeda since the Sept. 11 attacks last year, and about plans for further attacks, in the hope that they can help protect U.S. troops overseas.

The authorities interviewing an alleged member of Al Qaeda in military custody overseas are investigating a new theory of the Sept. 11 plot - that the suspect, Ramzi Binalshibh, was planning to pilot a fifth hijacked plane to strike the White House. The plan was disrupted when Binalshibh was captured last month in Pakistan.

This theory has gained momentum in recent weeks as investigators have assembled new details about Binalshibh's movements around Europe in the months before the attacks. Investigators have also compiled a fuller picture of his relationship with Mohamed Atta, an alleged ringleader of the plot, and uncovered fresh information about the breadth of Al Qaeda's original plan for the attacks

So now you know ONE OF THE REASONS why Binalshib allowed himself to be captured ALIVE.

[MercutioATC]

48. Wow! THAT'S a stretch...

A guy shoots it out with the people who have come to apprehend him and he actually WANTS to be captured? He could have easily arranged to be captured on the street without the gunplay while making a token resistance if that's what he was after. Why run the risk of getting killed and defeating his entire "plan"?

[seatnineb]

49. Ramzi Binalshib taking Risks........ You gotta be kiddin me!

Mercutio........

The token resistance by Binalshib and his gang was the "gunplay".
It was Binalshib's men who initiated the battle.

The "risk for Binalshib to be killed" (by either killing himself or having the enemy kill him) was AT BINALSHIB'S DISCRETION.

If Binalshib had tried to escape and run away from the building .........
ONLY then "would he have run the risk" of being killed.

But Binalshib never made an attempt to run anywhere......
Apart from cornering himself and 2 of his guards in a windowless kitchen....with NO EXIT.

It was one of these guards,who showed Binalshib how to "run the risk" of being killed...........
By doing the following:

One of the militants ran out of the room and was shot dead by the police.

From the Masterminds Of Terror book:
By Yosri Fouda And Nick Fielding.
Published By Mainstream Publishing.
Page 17.

So here is an opportunity for Ramzi Binalshib to martyr himself.
Binalshib knows that all he has to do is run out of that kitchen.
And try to run away.
And he knows that he will be killed.
Did Ramzi "I would have martyred myself on 9/11/01" Binalshib once make an attempt to run out of that kitchen.

Yeah right!

He(Binalshib) or the one remaining bodyguard continued to fire that rifle ineffectively.
When the rifle jammed.....
They both threw kitchen knives,forks and pans to prevent the Pakistani forces from entering the kitchen.

But....

If Ramzi Binalshib was the real deal and was really so hard-core.........

He could have either killed himself with the rifle (before it jammed)or he could have slaughtered himself with the kitchen knife(assuming it was sharp enough).

But...

Seeing as MercutioATC and LARED perceive the scenario of Binalshib killing himself as a cowardly act that would not have befitted someone so far high up in the Al-Quida hierarchy........

I will make an allowance for this pathetic proposition and suggest that all Binalshib had to do was run outside that room to make an attempt to escape the building.

Just like his bodyguard did.

And Binalshib would certainly have been killed by the Pakistani forces who had all the angles covered.

According to Mercutio...........
This would have been a worthy way to die for the cause........

Because lets remind ourselves what Mercutio wrote regarding martyrdom:

In the words of the honorable Mercutio........
Wed Mar-24-04 05:08 PM

"OBL gained a great deal of power by "leading" the fight against the U.S. By our standards, he's a fugitive hiding in caves. By his and his followers, he's a great leader and when we kill him, he'll be a martyr".
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=sh...

Mighty strong words Merc......

So by this logic,if the Pakistani's,who were acting on behalf of the the U.S, had killed Binalshib............
Binalshib would have been a martyr!

All Binalshib had to do was run outside of that kitchen and the doors of paradise would have been before him........

But hey....... you gotta be kiddin me!

Binalshib had to survive to get some major 9/11 myths and terror disinformation into the public "consciousness"

Look!

Along with Ramzi Binalshibh's laptop, authorities seized his cell phone during his arrest in a raid in Pakistan last week. Authorities consider his capture to be important in terms of gathering intelligence about the Sept. 11 attacks.
The landmarks include "the Brooklyn Bridge and the Statue of Liberty," a law enforcement official told ABCNEWS, speaking on condition of anonymity. They also found a flight simulator program, similar to the kind several of the Sept. 11 hijackers used for training.

FBI, CIA and British authorities are interrogating Binalshibh about specific U.S. targets and other operatives who may still be in the United States.

This information was used in a White House meeting on Tuesday, during which officials decided to keep the elevated terror alert status at orange.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/pakistan... .

And look!

A search of the home of the five al Qaeda suspects turned up passports belonging to members of the family of Osama bin Laden, reports CBS News Correspondent Lara Logan.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/18/attack/main52...

Ramzi oh Ramzi oh Ramzi.........
You Talk The Talk...........
But it is the the C.I.A, F.B.I and MI5(6?) who walk the walk!

[k-robjoe]

50. If I´m getting this right

Mercutio has been reading you this way : Binalshib staged his own arrest in order to lead the Americans astray.

I have been reading you this way : Binalshib, a bigmouthed minor brick, gets taken by surprise by the Pakistani police.
As he is a bigmouthed minor brick, and not at all a hardcore mastermind, he decides to surrender, and just tell lies to the Americans.
The CIA tells him to admit that he´s a big time mastermind and all. ( That´s what they need.) And that there were plans, such and such, and the reason they didn´t crash into a nuclear powerplant was such and such. Binalshib plays along. (Has little choice.)

Maybe neither Merc nor me is getting it quite right?

[k-robjoe]

52. correction

Wrote : > "Mercutio has been reading you this way : Binalshib staged his own arrest (...)"

Should be : Binalshib arranged his own arrest(...)

( If my english serves me right.)

[MercutioATC]

51. That makes no sense.

I didn't suggest that he could have walked out of the kitchen AFTER the Pakistanis came for him, I suggested that he could have avoided the situation altogether by, on his own, allowing himself to be "captured" on the street.

Yes, I believe that OBL will be a martyr to his followers if and when we kill him. It's debatable if underlings would enjoy the same treatment. I saw a lot of pictures of Saddam Hussein hanging on supporters' walls. I didn't see too many of Aziz. Either way, I don't believe that Binalshibh would have viewed killing himself because he was about to have been captured in the same way as dying in an attack against what Al-Queda views as an enemy.

[seatnineb]

53. Ramzi Binalshib works for al-CIA-da!

Mercutio says........
I didn't suggest that he(Ramzi Binalshib) could have walked out of the kitchen AFTER the Pakistanis came for him, I suggested that he could have avoided the situation altogether by, on his own, allowing himself to be "captured" on the street.

Wrong.

There are many in the Arab world who have thought American MIHOP since 8:46am on 9/11/01.
For Ramzi Binalshib to have simply handed himself over without so much as a fight would have aroused far too much suspicion from the sceptics in both the West and in particular the Middle - East.
Considering Binalshib's interview with the Egyptian journalist Yosri Fouda was broadcast widely in the Arab world........
It would have looked like a glaring contradiction to many Arabs if the man who had wished 1000 9/11's on the U.S and who had also said that he would have willingly helped fly a plane into a building on the same 9/11 itself.....had simply "handed himself over" to the pakistani security forces.

Hence the gun battle.........
Which was summed up by this statement by the Pakistani President and Bush stooge Pervez Musharraf himself......

We are going to interrogate them. Obviously there's a procedure, there's a process of interrogation known to all the intelligence agencies and we cooperate on this, and then we declare them white or black.But since there was a shootout, there's no doubt that they are al Qaeda members."
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/09/13/alqaeda.capture

And that is why my dear Mercutio ....a gun battle gives Binashib's capture a veneer of authenticity(by way of Binalshib and his men having shown resistance).

A gun battle in which Binalshib (as an individual) NEVER ran the risk(although being involved in the gun battle made it look like he ran the risk) of being killed.
In fact of the 12 "Al-Quaida" men(including Binalshib) involved in this gun battle with the Pakistani forces.....
ONLY 2 were killed.
One was shot on the roof-top.
And fell to his death.

The other was Binalshib's body-guard who ran outside the kitchen where Binalshib was hiding.
And was shot dead.

One of these 2 men who was killed is believed to have been involved in the murder of Daniel Pearl!
But that is another story....but just as significant.
We'll talk about it sometime.

In short Ramzi Binalshib is an Arab agent working for American,British,Israely, Saudi and Yemeni intelligence and god knows whoelse.
Everything that Binalshib says with regards to the way 9/11 happened (BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER his capture)is EXACTLY THE SAME as the way F.B.I boss Robert Mueller says it happened.

Look.......
Binalshib and Defence Attorney Ashcroft obviously had a telepathic communication..........
In the words of the mighty John Ashcroft
"He's(Ramzi Binalshib) an individual we care deeply about. He tried come to the United States three times and we believe it could well have been that he wanted to be the 20th hijacker.
January 2002.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/09/13/alqaeda.capture

Which is corroborated(before he was captured) by the equally mighty Ramzi Binalshib himself!
"We have to pay a tax to go to paradise!"
Masterminds Of Terror
By Yosri Fouda And Nick Fielding.
Published By Mainstream Publishing.
Page 116.

The tax that agent Binalshib was refering to was the Visa that was never issued to him.

So what we have here is what would appear to be 2 enemies(Ashcroft and Binalshib) who at face value seem to be against eachother......
But when one tears apart the fabric of the stories that both these guys tell.........
One begins to realise that they are in fact working in tandem with eachother.

They say that the enemy is within the American gates.....
Then the Arabs had better realise that the enemy is within their gates too.


Ramzi Binalshib............ concerned about conspiracy theorists who made....
"Attempts to strip the brothers(9/11 hijackers) of their credit"

Masterminds Of Terror
By Yosri Fouda And Nick Fielding.
Published By Mainstream Publishing.
Page 28.

Ramzi Binalshib
An Arab who claims to be a champion of the Arab or Muslim cause.
But in reality he is an Arab agent working against the interests of ordinary Arab and Muslim people.

Just ask Afghan or Iraqies.

[LARED]

3. Mystery of Abe

Although calling it a mystery is not very accurate as it happens all the time

Why do you engage is such obtuse logic?

You post an article that tells a story about some organization that claims responsibility for bombing a church, and then you make up a story that it was a frame up without one iota of evidence to indicate that's true.

Is it possible it is a frame up? Sure. Could the story be true? Sure. But you act as if the frame up scenarios is a done deal.

I know you are smarter than that, so what gives.

Is it just flame bait, or do you really beleive your own tales?