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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-01-07 11:30 PM
Original message
pilots for 911 truth...
snip/

Flight Data Recorder Analysis - Last Second of Data - 09:37:44
08/20/06



We have determined based on the Flight Data Recorder information that has been analyzed thus far provided by the NTSB, that it is impossible for this aircraft to have struck down the light poles.

/end snip

Link here.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Discussion about this link here...
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. pilots for 911 truth...
... uses "information" that they know is wrong to sell DVDs to gullible "truth seekers":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=125586

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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm beginning to notice that certain "styles" of posting
Edited on Fri Feb-02-07 11:56 AM by LARED
almost seem to be part of someones marketing strategy. Just a snippet of information to whet the curiosity, when whammo you find yourself doing the impulse buy.

Perhaps it's just a coincidence.

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johndoeX Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I see William still cherry picks.
Anytime you want to debate system indications, vertical speed, altitude etc etc... let me know William. I told you the last time. Send me your number via email and we will have a civil debate on ALL the facts (not just your cherry picking) over the phone. .recorded. You still have yet to step up to the plate. You're not a coward are you? Even the NTSB and FBI are having problems answering our questions (recorded calls with FBI, NTSB and Flight Data Recorder experts in the film)... but perhaps William has all the answers..lol (hint.. he doesnt..)

By the way folks.. be sure to keep an eye out on www.thepentacon.com in which they will be releasing a film shortly where they video taped uniformed pentagon officials at the Citgo gas station confirming the north flight path.. (yes.. .more than one official).

Anytime William... pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org. We look forward to your email... we'll record the debate.. and put it up on DU if you like..

Cheers!

Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
johndoeX Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. We have a REAL FDR Expert
Edited on Fri Feb-02-07 11:03 PM by johndoeX
Not an anonymous one from the internet that screws everything up such as Anti-Sophie holding onto a 'possible error of 2 seconds' when he needs 8.

And just as i thought.. ignore the challenge for a real debate. Coward.


Funny, Anti-Sophist also ignores any challenge for a real debate. Just like the NTSB refuses to answer questions. I bet you guys would sound like bumbling idiots on the phone, just like the govt loyalists.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. And just as I thought
... you'd really, really like to change the subject away from the scam you're pulling with the graphic being aligned wrong in the animation. Fraud. Why should anyone believe anything you say about FDRs when you decided to leave bullshit like that in your cinematic masterpiece?

By the way, does your "REAL expert" explain how it is that his interpretation of the altitude data is so super accurate that we can be sure the plane was above the lightpoles, but the heading data is off by 20 degrees? Got any explanation for how it is that so many people saw the plane fly into the Pentagon, and not a single person -- not even Trip's incredibly credible Citgo witnesses -- reported that they saw the plane fly over the Pentagon and drop a bomb? Oh, that's right; it doesn't matter that your little fairy tale doesn't make any sense, as long as the suckers cough up the $14.95 to get all those "extras."

If you've got something to say to me, you can say it here, and if I've got something to say to you, I'll damn well say it here. LMAO, I'm not about to give my phone number to someone who makes death threats to everyone who catches him scamming, and whom I suspect is mentally unstable.

And by the way, that reminds me, did you ever remember how old you are and how many years flying experience you have? I know, it must be tough sorting out all that real-life stuff when you're so busy "investigating" 9/11.

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johndoeX Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Sigh...
Edited on Sat Feb-03-07 06:27 AM by johndoeX
Sigh.. .anytime you want to look up the facts.. let us know.. Every one else is. Considering the film is viewable for free.. and that we get orders... i guess people really do have their own mind and dont listen to people like you.. (Thank goodness)

An excerpt from the FDR expert call...

"So long as you know where you took off from, we can work out exactly where you were and we can then use things like heading, wind speed, ground speed, to correlate that data so that if there was something odd going on for example, if we were suffering for mag-shift, mag-shift is a GPS thing where the ground, um, the Global Positioning System suffers from positional errors we can actually work out the difference, we can work out at where the airplane truly was by pure physics as in it weighs this much, it was traveling at this speed, heading in this direction, and experience these accelerations, up, down, left, and right. We can then look at the GPS data and say here, here is where the mag-shift started at same point and it, mag-shift can be introduced by the flight magnet systems by, um, ground-radio transmitting errors. But at the end of the day, we have some really quite sophisticated tools to work out exactly where the airplane was."

Hint: Watch the NTSB animation and follow the 'yellow brick road".

Next, pilots dont get jobs at an airline if they are mentally unstable. But im sure you still think im not a pilot. Keep thinking that. .it makes you look great. :-)

And if you had any substance to my supposed death threats.. the law would be knocking on my door. Just admit it.. you are a coward who cannot debate facts and looking for any excuse not to debate face to face. You have my name.. by that you can get my address from the FAA database (as i told the FBI in our recorded call). Stop being a coward.

edit: a few typos.

Cheers!
Rob Balsamo
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Take a hike
>.. and that we get orders... i guess people really do have their own mind and dont listen to people like you.. (Thank goodness)

How fortunate for your back account, huh. That's the same "discovery" Dylan Avery made, isn't it. Are you making as much money as the LTW boyz? I doubt it; they're much better at both video editing and deception than you are.

> "... But at the end of the day, we have some really quite sophisticated tools to work out exactly where the airplane was."

I also have a sophisticated tool for working out exactly where the plane was when it clipped those lightpoles and where it was when it plowed into the base of the Pentagon. It's called a brain. You didn't respond to boloboffin's post: This FDR you're talking about -- would that be the one that was recovered from the Pentagon? The same FDR that shows a heading that passes right over the Washington Blvd bridge where the lightpoles were knocked down?

> Hint: Watch the NTSB animation and follow the 'yellow brick road".

Hint: When I first tried to plot the heading indicated by the FDR on a map, I made the same mistake that whoever put that animation together made: I rotated the magnetic heading the wrong way. When I got it right, sonofabitch, the path went right over the lightpoles. Another hint: At least a dozen people reported seeing the plane hit those lightpoles, and dozens more saw it fly right into that big hole in Pentagon where all the plane parts, human remains, and the FDR were recovered.

> Next, pilots dont get jobs at an airline if they are mentally unstable.

Typical "truther logic." If you really do (still) have a job as a pilot, your own posts prove your logic is wrong. For example:

> And if you had any substance to my supposed death threats.. the law would be knocking on my door.

In the previous post I linked to -- the one where I took you to task for using that bogus animation alignment in the DVD even though you knew it was wrong -- (and in which you were also demanding my phone number so we could "chat"), you said, "Im prepared to plow down anyone that gets in my way of questioning my govt.. get it? ... People within our organization have sworn to defend the Constitution from ALL enemies.. foreign or domestic. We are prepared to give our lives for it. Are you prepared to give yours if you stand in our way?"

Don't be so cocky just because the law hasn't knocked on your door, yet. At the time, I was willing to believe that you were probably just a jackass blowhard cyberpunk, trying to deflect attention away from what you were doing with your DVD scam. Now, after reading many of your posts on other boards, I'm not so sure that you aren't really mentally unstable. That certainly wasn't the first time you've made threats like that against someone who called you out for being dishonest, was it? So don't be surprised if your behavior eventually draws some attention from the law, especially if you continue "debating" in that manner, and especially if you make any more attempts to contact me offline. Get it?

> Just admit it.. you are a coward who cannot debate facts and looking for any excuse not to debate face to face.

I don't need any excuse to stay the hell away from you "face to face," but you're the one obviously having difficulty debating the facts -- with me and everyone else -- so you resort to death threats and chest-thumping and look for any excuse to avoid facing your own intellectual dishonesty. Screw you, JDX; you have no credibility any more except with your tiny little bunch of deluded, bullshit-addicted followers.

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. What are uniformed Pentagon officials doing at the Citgo gas station?
Don't tell me that you got some people that weren't there when Flight 77 hit.
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johndoeX Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Citgo Gas Station
Is for pentagon and/or military ID'd personnel only. Do your homework.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. So why the stressing of them, if they're the only ones there?
Now wait a minute - aren't you the guy that proves Flight 77 didn't crash at the Pentagon based on Flight 77's FDR that was covered at the Pentagon?
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Cherry pick this
Well, golly, shame on me for the "personal attack" in pointing out that you're hustling pornography for paranoids, but I'll repost without using the specific name I have for such people.

Thanks again for another opportunity to link to Anti-sophist's Flight Data Recorder analysis on JREF: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=66047 What, you think A-S is wrong? Well, we already know you'd leave it in your DVD even if you knew he was right. Just like you did with the "north of the Citgo" flight path animation.

And BTW, Lyte Trip and Merc have the distinction of being the first 9/11 hucksters to have their video debunked before they even got it released. E.g.: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=69943
What a freakin' joke their marketing campaign was -- and we still don't know what Russell Pickering means by "manipulated witnesses" (although I'm sure we will if and when that DVD gets released). But so what; there are still some people who will buy it anyway, and that's the only important thing to you guys -- well, that and being "movement heroes" I guess.
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johndoeX Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Pandora's Black Box Chapter Two link
Edited on Fri Feb-02-07 12:21 PM by johndoeX
Full documentary...

Chapter Two of the Pandora's Black Box Series.
The long awaited release covering the entire flight in detail as provided by the National Transportation Safety Board. This feature film follows the flight as it happens in real time throughout the Air Traffic Control System on September 11, 2001. Analysis includes The Flight Data Recorder, The money and cover-up, Air Traffic Control and Radar, NORAD response and the shocking conflicts/possibilities based on information provided by the US Government. Extras include phone calls with a Flight Data Recorder expert regarding Flight Data Recorder accuracy and new calls with the FBI trying to get answers.
A Must See!

Click to see film for free.
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=3895
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. .
Edited on Fri Feb-02-07 10:09 PM by Kingshakabobo


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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. very interesting smackdowns you're handing out ...
to willy IMHO! Thanks for taking the time to post and welcome to the dungeon, johndoeX.
:hi:
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Go, Johnie, go go go
Edited on Sat Feb-03-07 01:05 PM by William Seger


Whatsa matter, wildbill, couldn't find any old threads to bump? I'm not so sure JDX really wants this one bumped, but why don't you go bump this one too: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=125586
Johnie has lots of "very interesting smackdowns" in that one, too.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. sure I could, William!
Had I wanted to.
:hi:

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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. and if you dont, I will
when need be of course. Hi Bill :hi:
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Hello Twist!
:hi:
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Hi ya, twist_u_up
... and please do bump this thread as often as you like. I'll even help you guys.

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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Great Job, Thanks for all the effort
Edited on Sat Feb-03-07 01:04 PM by Twist_U_Up
ITS FREE TOO

Keep your eye on the ball dont let the distractors throw you off. They are going to throw everything at you as you have already noticed. Dont break the DU rules and you will be fine. Just the facts man !

P.S.
I like your idea of the phone call . Dont expect to ever hear it though.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Great job... of what?
> Just the facts man !

Uh-huh, that's JDX's specialty. :eyes:
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. 400 ft light poles ?
Edited on Sat Feb-03-07 03:27 PM by Twist_U_Up
Blatant cover-up, 29.92

I'm glad that there are people here that will explain the discrepancies but the NTSB wont.

Murderers and their complicit merry followers :puke:
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. JDX doesn't "explain the discrepancies"
... not in any way that doesn't create far more (and much more serious) discrepancies. If you'd really like an explanation of the FDR altitude data that doesn't conflict with the huge amount of physical evidence and the dozens of witnesses, I gave a link above. But no, you really wouldn't like that at all, would you. If discrepancies really bothered you, you would ask JDX to explain the discrepancy between the flight path he claims and not only the physical evidence and the dozens of witnesses, but also conflicts with the heading data from the very same FDR that he claims proves the plane was too high to hit the poles.

See? Discrepancies don't really bother you, do they.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. "dozens of witnesses" most of whom work or have worked in the media or for the military
Based on the witness list assembled by French researcher Eric Bart
http://eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/witness.html
...
"As it turns out, a substantial portion of the entries on the list are not witness accounts at all; instead, they fall into one of the following categories:"

* News reports that retell the official story without citing any specific witnesses.
* Statements by official government spokesmen who were not themselves witnesses to the attack.
* Hearsay accounts.
* Reports that have nothing to do with what did or did not hit the Pentagon (such as an air traffic control report, two seismic reports, a Navy report on treating blast injuries, a Federation of American Scientists report on blast effects, an engineer's report on the reinforcement work done on the Pentagon, and, most bizarrely, a Washington Post report on the creation of the Information Awareness Office).
* Accounts of rescue workers who tended to the wounded.
...
"After editing the Bart list to eliminate all the non-witnesses and all the irrelevant witnesses, what is left is, at most, 70 witnesses who claim to have seen something flying in the vicinity of, approaching, or actually crashing into, the Pentagon. So much for the endlessly cited "hundreds of witnesses"."
...
# Gary Bauer: Talking head and former Republican presidential candidate who has been linked to the notorious Project for a New American Century.
# Paul Begala: Democratic Party operative and nominally liberal punching bag on CNN's "Crossfire."
# Bobby Eberle: President and CEO of GOPUSA, a portal of right-wing propaganda.
# Mike Gerson: Director of George W. Bush's speech writing staff.
# Alfred Regnery: President of Regnery Publishing, another portal of right-wing propaganda -- one that has seen fit to bestow upon the world the literary stylings of Ann Coulter, the Swift Boat Veterans, and numerous other accomplished liars.
# Greta Van Susteren: Nominally liberal legal analyst for Fox News.
...
# Dennis Clem is a Deputy Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.
# Penny Elgas sits on the FDIC Advisory Committee on Banking Policy, alongside of Jean Baker, who just happens to be the Chief of Staff at the Office of President George H.W. Bush.
# Albert Hemphill is a Lt. General with the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization.
# Captain (now Major) Lincoln Leibner is a communications officer for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
# Stephen McGraw is a former U.S. Department of Justice attorney reborn as an Opus Dei priest.
# Colonel Mitch Mitchell serves as a CBS News war spinner military consultant.
# Patty Murray is a United States Senator (D-Washington).
# Rick Renzi is a United States Congressman (R-Arizona).
# James Robbins is a contributor to National Review, a national security analyst, and a Senior Fellow at the American Foreign Policy Council
# Meseidy Rodriguez, his name appears in legal filings concerning Dick Cheney's top-secret energy policy meetings
# Vice Admiral Darb Ryan is the Chief of U.S. Naval Personnel.
# Elizabeth Smiley is an intelligence operations specialist with Civil Aviation Security at FAA headquarters
# Brig. General Clyde A. Vaughn is the deputy director of military support to civil authorities
...
# Bob Dubill was the executive editor for USA Today.
# Mary Ann Owens was a journalist for Gannett.
# Richard Benedetto was a reporter for USA Today.
# Christopher Munsey was a reporter for Navy Times.
# Vin Narayanan was a reporter for USA Today.
# Joel Sucherman was a multimedia editor for USA Today.
# Mike Walter was a reporter for USA Today.
# Steve Anderson was the director of communications for USA Today.
# Fred Gaskins was the national editor for USA Today.
# Mark Faram was a reporter for Navy Times.

"Despite the dubious nature of Mr. Faram's account, he did at least provide us with some useful important information -- specifically, that USA Today and Navy Times are both part of the Gannett family of news outlets. Actually, if Faram weren't so modest, he would have noted that Gannett also publishes Air Force Times, Army Times, Marine Corp Times, Armed Forces Journal, Military Market, Military City, and Defense News. In other words, it's just your typical independent, civilian media organization."...



full article:
September 11, 2001 Revisited
ACT II: ADDENDUM 2
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr68e.html

video:
Crash of Flight 77 - 9/11 Witnesses at the Pentagon on September 11th
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6317630216235657870

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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Riiiiight. all the witnesses are in on it, all the evidence was faked
Edited on Sun Feb-04-07 11:52 AM by William Seger
We'll get to the bottom of this with another investigation. :eyes:

(ETA: There were literally hundreds of witnesses, and implying otherwise just because not all of them had published reports is silly. Oddly enough, not a single one of them has come forward to report, for example, that they saw the plane fly over the Pentagon and drop a bomb on it.)
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Actually the video in the OP
shows a number of witnesses that saw something that does not fit the original story.

And please to tell, what in the article in my previous post is incorrect? Is any of the people listed not a witness, or is any of them not associated with the organizations that are mentioned? If so, which?
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. What's incorrect is the totally baseless sinister implications
1) believing that what a few people thought they saw is more accurate than what a far greater number of people thought they saw

2) believing that what a few people thought they saw is more significant than the physical evidence

3) playing "connect the dots" without any logical reason whatsoever for believing that the dots are in fact connected

4) implying that people would lie about a mass murder simply because of their current employer

5) implying that those who had reports published are the only people who saw what happened, or that people who saw something that indicates those reports were lies wouldn't come forward to give their stories

6) implying that because a lot of the reports were from people connected with media implies something suspicious, without recognizing that those are simply the people much more likely to publish their reports

7) ... (I'm sure I could go on, but that should be sufficient)
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. so you don't disagree with the facts
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Point goes to Seger. nt
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. What "facts" do you have that actually dispute the "official story"?
All I see is a bunch of innuendo that many dozens of eyewitnesses can't be trusted.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. The innuendo is in your head
I merely presented facts. You got to be gullible not to be suspicious about those Pentagon witnesses.

One other fact is that 9/11 is not the reason for the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq: the plans were devised well before 9/11.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. What, no kick today?
Hey, Twist_U_Up, speaking of discrepancies, did you happen to notice that I'm still waiting for JDX to explain that 20-degree discrepancy in the heading data? No? Don't tell me that you let JDX baffle you with bullshit! :eyes:
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