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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:18 PM
Original message
Birds falling from the sky all over the globe!
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 04:53 PM by mhatrw
Australia --

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,2103...

THOUSANDS of birds have fallen from the skies over Esperance and no one knows why.

Texas --

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/loca...

The discovery of dozens of mysteriously dead birds shut down Congress Avenue on Monday morning, closing dozens of businesses for hours and keeping hundreds of workers away from their jobs in part of the city's most important commercial center.

Idaho (ducks) --

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_4855994

Preliminary test results indicate a bacterial or fungal infection could be to blame for the deaths of as many as 2,500 mallard ducks in a bizarre cluster along a southeastern Idaho creek bed, a state game official says. More tests are now planned on water and grain, said David Parrish, supervisor for the Magic Valley region of the Idaho Department of Fish and Game.

"We have some preliminary results," he told The Associated Press late Thursday in a telephone interview. "It could be some type of bacterial infection or a fungal-related infection. But we haven't confirmed that for sure."

Parrish and members of the Idaho Department of Environmental Quality, the state Department of Agriculture, the federal Homeland Security Department and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service conferred by conference call late Thursday. Parrish said the die-off was not typical. "It's fairly uncommon, especially in these types of numbers and in such a confined area," he said.


http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=38739

Last year, about 500 mostly mallard ducks died in similar circumstances at a pond in Waterloo, Iowa. The Iowa Department of Natural Resources said the ducks likely died from Aspergillosis.

Maine (crows) --

Sun Journal

Residents of the neighborhood next to the Promenade Mall are puzzled over dozens of dead crows that seem to be dropping from the sky.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2006/12...

Residents unnerved by the unexplained deaths of dozens of crows in a neighborhood next to the Promenade Mall hope tests by the U.S. Department of Agriculture will provide some answers.

To residents, it seems almost as though dead crows were falling from the sky. Damien Perreault, 71, said he disposed of 10 dead crows he found on a walk Monday. That didn't count crows dead in the trees. Ray Beaudoin, a resident of Summit Avenue, called animal control officials when the dead crows started appearing a couple of weeks ago.


Azerbaijan (various fowl) --

http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=18697

Mass death of poultries is observed in the village Boyuk Bahmanli of Fuzuli region, the villagers told the APA.

They said that mass death of poultries was observed in several yards and they appealed to the veterinary service. The death reasons are unknown. Besides, a lot of dead fowls were found in the water basins of the village, as well as in the ponds on the neutral strip on border with Iran.


France (chickens) --

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6191599.stm

French authorities say they cannot rule out bird flu after 4,000 chickens died on a French farm on Saturday.

Colorado (mostly starlings) --

http://www.longmontfyi.com/Local-Story.asp?id=14007

About 40 dead birds littered a short stretch of U.S. Highway 287 south of the city Tuesday.

Boulder County health officials and the Colorado Division of Wildlife were still coordinating efforts late afternoon to investigate the site, just south Mooring Road.


South Dakota (geese) --

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2...

Salinity was responsible for the deaths of about 1,000 geese near Watertown in November.

The snow geese and blue geese were found in late November on Lake Nicholson, about 15 miles northwest of Watertown.

Tests found high mineral concentrations in their brains. That, along with lethargy observed in dying birds, is consistent with "salt toxicosis," Morlock said.


Idaho (owls) --

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650221073,00.html

A study of roadkill on Interstate 84 between Boise and Burley has found so many dead barn owls that a Boise State University scientist says he's concerned the owls could disappear from areas surrounding the travel corridor.

"I don't have enough information to predict the viability of the species," Jim Belthoff told The Times-News. "But the mere fact that cars are killing this many animals from one species is alarming."
Belthoff expects to publish a study of the issue later this year.

For 2 1/2 years, Belthoff and graduate student Than Boves have twice a month driven the southern Idaho highway between Boise and Burley collecting animals killed by vehicles.

They found 2,518 dead animals, with 800 of those being barn owls, the most common dead animal found in the study.
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Dammit Ann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. This cannot be good.
Weird and scary. Thanks for posting. Recommended.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Are you Rapture Ready? I bet they are talking about this..
Seriously though that is some wierd shit.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Fucking widdle burdies, gettin' raptured and leaving us behind!
:grr:

:sarcasm:
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. If you're raptured, you don't fall to the ground
Indeed, quite the opposite.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
94. Actually the spirit goes.. the body stays..
Which is gonna make cleaning up that mess a real pain in the ass...
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. I thought they flew up to heaven--body and all
just like Jesus was resurrected in his real body.

What do I know? I'm a mainline Protestant pastor. Went to an evangelical funeral for a colleague today, and realized that I simply DO NOT speak these people's language.

So, you're probably right.
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #94
103. But, we still get their cars, right?
:+
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northernsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #103
122. I don't want their shitty cars
Have you ever seen a vehicle with Fundy/Freeper bumperstickers that you would ever actually want for yourself? For that matter, I probably don't want their shitty, tacky houses and I'll bet the bank that their music collections blow goats as well. I'm trying to figure out if there is anything the fundies could leave behind that I would actually want... Coming up blank right now.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #122
128. Oh come on--you'd look great
pulling that giant SUV into the artful, curving driveway of your new McMansion. What are you, some kind of liberal elitist snob?
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northernsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #128
133. hey, I always look great
But I just think that I look better pulling up my aging station wagon to my modest house in the middle of a very diverse neighborhood in the middle of a small city. Chicks dig that look big time!
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #94
127. That's not how it works if you're a fundie--
The living saved get sucked up bodily into heaven; the dead saved climb up out of their graves and get sucked up bodily, too. It's all in Revelations, kind of.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
108. Yep, the Rapture Ready kooks are discussing this big time.
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh boy
I know lakes around here in Madison are very polluted. I bet water has something to do with many of these deaths.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Proverbial and literal canaries in the coal mine.
Birds have such rapid metabolisms that they're the first to be affected by gradual changes in the environment.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
70. Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Spooky. n/t
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
88. An the changes that are taking place now are not slow.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well, shit. Now I will be watching the parrot like, dare I say, a hawk... NT
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. I have a parrot too...
I also have about 36 other birds. I lost several a few weeks back, one dropped dead right in front of me. I think it was a bad batch of seed. We haven't seen any large bird kills here in NOLA. I am hoping we don't. I hope your feathery friend stays well.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Oh, no... I have to worry about SEED quality too? Good gravy!!
My boy is an obnoxious and highly intelligent timneh gray who prefers mexican food and pasta to seed, but he gripes about seed and treats and how he's starving half the day...! He won't touch fruits or vegetables unless they are cooked, he's spoiled rotten.

Wow, I never thought to worry about the doggone seed. Of course, the bird likes everything from oatmeal to dog food and you name it...and he's a pig, too! So if there's a seed issue, he'll just have to switch to dog and people food until the crisis blows over, I guess...!
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Fish kills in the sea. ..all over the globe
Whada ya know it's the Silent Spring. Next the insects. Then the animals. Then us. It's probably the depleted uranium we blasted all over Iraq floating the globe in the air, killing off all the poor birds. What a legacy Bush leaves behind. He better move to Paraguay when he gets out of office. He doesn't deserve to live in this great country. Hell, this great planet. Send him to Mars.
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
42.  Huge area of Oregon Coast that is basically dead....
off the Oregon coast near Lincoln City, Or ...."a Graveyard"
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SoyCat Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
150. Don't forget the huge dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. This is getting very scary.
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. We're living in a Hitchcock movie. Dammit. I wanted to be in an Altman movie.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Shit - I'd like to be in a Russ Meyer movie....
Looks more like some sort of cheap-ass Michael Bey/Jerry Bruckheimer knock-off these days, though.
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
62. "Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!" - n/t
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. I wanted to be in a NAKED GUN movie...but OJ screwed that up for us, doggone him NT
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #23
41. I'll bet Nordberg would've caught the *real* killers by now
As hilarious as the "bear trap" scene is in NG 2 1/2, I can't watch it anymore.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. I was furious that he screwed up such a good franchise. Those were so damned hysterical
they could have gone on for an even dozen, easily. Damn the man....it's not enough that he had to brutally murder two people, ruin lives, and destroy families, he also had to destroy a rare outlet for aficionados of sophisticated slapstick with innuendo....the baaaaaastid!!!

I have to say, my favorites were the 'dowager' scenes: the Babs Bush and the queen scenes...dunno why, they just crack me up and never get old.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
117. Could be worse. We could be in a Sam Peckinpah movie. nt
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demrabble Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not Good. Not Good At All.
This cannot be good.

What's worse, no one seems to know why it is happening.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. "It's the darnedest thing I ever saw."
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. your Maine link is bad.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Thanks. Fixed & added a second link. n/t
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 04:53 PM by mhatrw
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. 
And in SO many ways, too... :scared:
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Those are indeed chilling words.
I can't imagine what could be killing them all, but this cannot be a good - or natural - thing at all.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. Global Pollution?
Clothes/Cars/Gadgets are being produced all over the world in factories with little or no safeguards in regards to air pollution. The air currents move the polluted air from one country to another, harming not only the air we breathe, but also birds.

Birds are highly susceptible to toxic fumes...the ole canary in the coal mine comes to mind.


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Last Stand Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. probably more like global warming. 50% of the monkeys in a
biologically rich jungle in Costa Rica died last year because the season were off and trees didn't bear fruit in their normal way. The monkeys digestive system started digesting the monkeys. They closed the park because about a third of the wildlife died for similar reasons. We got there a month after it happened.

Sad story about nature's fragile balance.
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Oreo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. So Long....
And thanks for all the Birdseed
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. But I thought is was wind power that killed birds.

:eyes:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. That is what the fossil fuel fucks will tell you....!!! NT
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. People are getting sick too with strange lingering illnesses
Whatever that crap is they are spewing out of those silent white jets can't help matters.

The stuff that doesn't dissipate, spreads out, whitens the sky and leaves greasy halos around the sun. Unfortunately still too many people don't pay attention to the sky and are conditioned to believe they are simply normal contrails.

I have heard from someone who works around here with sick and injured wildlife that they are paying attention to the chemtrails because there are so many sick birds and they don't have any other reason for it.

Canary in the coalmine indeed. It doesn't make the corporate media however.


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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. A fellow Chemmie! Word up!
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 05:04 PM by soulcore
I agree these mystery pollutants (well the aluminum isn't a secret) are greatly exacerbating already worsening environmental problems.

Those mystery lines in the sky were my first thought after reading these.

Put your flame suit on though, they don't take kindly to our kind around these parts.

FYI, spraying has been constant here in Dallas since Monday afternoon ;)

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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. They're contrails.
And they do actually have an effect on Global Warming.
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. I would argue that they aren't contrails.
Contrails, for the most part, do not linger, persist, turn on-and-off mid flight, or billow out into huge swaths of cloud cover.


Nor do they cast shadow onto the cloud cover below.



They also do not reflect sundogs at night.


But I do agree, they are helping to make the world a much hotter place.
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
65. fellow connie here...
absolutely believe that there is some weird shit going on with these...they aren't contrails...contrails disappear within minutes of being left...these fall and spread and fall/spread some more, until they have the sky covered...then everyone in the neighborhood gets sick with the same symptoms w/i a couple days...contrails do not make a person sick..."chemtrails" do...would we believe our media tells the truth about anything....??
wb
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
155. You would be wrong.
Contrails can and do do all the things that you describe. In fact, if they didn't, that would be a violation of several laws of physics, since to be visible, something has to cast a shadow. As for their formation and duration, that's controlled by weather conditions.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. They are CHEMtrails. n/t
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
60. Real contrails dissipate in a few seconds
they don't linger, spread out and then whiten the sky. Our sky is always XXX'd up with chemtrails constantly put out by silent white jets criss crossing back and forth.

We aren't under a real flight path which would explain why we rarely see/hear normal jets that actually make a noise and that have real contrails that dissipate.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #60
124. That's just not true.
Contrails can "linger" a long time, depending on wind conditions at altitude--they're just tiny ice crystals, not much different in composition from a cirrus cloud. As for not living on a "real" flight path--you may without being aware of it. Where do you live?
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
91. Good or Bad?
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #32
118. a positive one, actually
strangely enough. combined, they reflect a lot of sunlight back into space.
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
54. Hah, don't I know it
I still take the opportunity to educate and try to wake up the sleepers though. Good pics. I was documenting them too but it was becoming an obsession and I had to stop. Some of the sunsets around here last fall were wild. Now we just have wind and rain.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
113. Thank God This Stuff Is Generally Doomed To The Confines Of The 9/11 Forum.
Thank friggin god.

Uggg, if those of us in the reality based community had to see threads on this stuff in GD regularly, how frustrating that would be.

Thank God for the 9/11 dungeon.

"Put your flame suit on though, they don't take kindly to our kind around these parts."

Oh you ain't kidding. Pretty good reasons why too.
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #113
143. Well, they don't welcome us, even as progressive as the community is.
And I would bet that a larger portion of the posters here are 911 truth "conspiracy theorists" than anyone would like to admit. Same goes for chemtrails and UFOs. I bet you think Kennedy was killed by a magic bullet as well.

Just because you ignore evidence and perspective at the risk of upsetting the status quo doesn't mean strange things aren't happening.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #143
146. You So Silly.
:crazy:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #113
167. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #113
182. Guess you wouldn't take too kindly to Kucinich around these parts.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2001/hr2977.html


HR 2977 IH

107th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 2977

To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

October 2, 2001

Mr. KUCINICH introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned

A BILL

To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Space Preservation Act of 2001'.

SEC. 2. REAFFIRMATION OF POLICY ON THE PRESERVATION OF PEACE IN SPACE.

Congress reaffirms the policy expressed in section 102(a) of the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 (42 U.S.C. 2451(a)), stating that it `is the policy of the United States that activities in space should be devoted to peaceful purposes for the benefit of all mankind.'.

SEC. 3. PERMANENT BAN ON BASING OF WEAPONS IN SPACE.

The President shall--

(1) implement a permanent ban on space-based weapons of the United States and remove from space any existing space-based weapons of the United States; and

(2) immediately order the permanent termination of research and development, testing, manufacturing, production, and deployment of all space-based weapons of the United States and their components.

SEC. 4. WORLD AGREEMENT BANNING SPACE-BASED WEAPONS.

The President shall direct the United States representatives to the United Nations and other international organizations to immediately work toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing a world agreement banning space-based weapons.

SEC. 5. REPORT.

The President shall submit to Congress not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and every 90 days thereafter, a report on--

(1) the implementation of the permanent ban on space-based weapons required by section 3; and

(2) progress toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing the agreement described in section 4.

SEC. 6. NON SPACE-BASED WEAPONS ACTIVITIES.

Nothing in this Act may be construed as prohibiting the use of funds for--

(1) space exploration;

(2) space research and development;

(3) testing, manufacturing, or production that is not related to space-based weapons or systems; or

(4) civil, commercial, or defense activities (including communications, navigation, surveillance, reconnaissance, early warning, or remote sensing) that are not related to space-based weapons or systems.

SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.

(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:

(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--

(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;

(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object;

(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or

(IV) any other unacknowledged or as yet undeveloped means.

(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--

(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i) or subparagraph (B);

(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or

(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.


He's such a fucking tinfoiler. :eyesroll:

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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
160. Contrails in WWII

More B-17 bombers over Germany during WWII, with fighter escorts overhead- all these pilots confirm that contrails "WOULD PERSIST FOR HOURS, EVEN DAYS"


Crewmen of an American ship watch the contrails as American
and Japanese planes fight it out above Task Force 58 in the Great
Marianas Turkey Shoot on June 19, 1944.


Dogfights create contrails over London's St. Pauls Cathedral during the Battle of Britain
in 1940- at sixty years one of the oldest contrail photos

http://store1.yimg.com/I/mcmahanphoto_1869_142226008

http://www.bruceleibowitz.net/contrails.htm

some good contrail pics here.
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jabeguy Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. agreed and agreed!
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 05:31 PM by jabeguy
It will absolutely not make the CIA-controlled media ( http://www.disclosureproject.org )... (scroll to "media control document" in "news" on front page.

Some great links about chemtrails:
http://www.carnicom.com
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com

Namaste.
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
47. Welcome to DU. Thanks for the links.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. I call them the "Blue sky destroyers"
Whenever the sky is really blue, the blue sky destroyers show up and in under two hours, the blue sky is gone. They come out and fly in criss/cross patterns. They do it ON PURPOSE!
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. They call it water vapor...
which has been condensed. Or contrails. (Condensation trails, get it?)

Pretty cool, isn't it?
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. Another possibility is microwaves designed to affect the ionosphere
such as those thought to exist as part of 'weather control'. May also be related to HAARP.

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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. HAARP! Wow...Tesla, death ray machine!!
I'm not so looney afer all! :crazy:
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. I was thinking HAARP too! (placing my tinfoil hat firmly in place)......... ;)
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #55
180. This is curious
From 1994
emphasis added:
Wildlife advocates also have cause to be concerned. The HAARP site lies 140 miles north of the town of Cordova on Prince William Sound, on the northwest tip of Alaska's Wrangell-St. Elias National Park. Since ordinary radar is known to be deadly to low- flying birds, HAARP's powerful radiation beam could pose a problem for migratory birds because the transmitter stands in the path of the critical Pacific Flyway. In addition, HAARP's ability to generate strong magnetic fields could conceivably interfere with the migration of birds, marine life and Arctic animals that are now known to rely on the Earth's magnetic fields to navigate over long distances.
http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/guns_and_weapons/haar...


I've seen a few more recent references online to radar being used to track birds, but I didn't know radar was dangerous to birds. In an attempt to track this down, I note that microwaves are right above radar waves in the frequency spectrum. There seem to be plenty of indications that microwaves have well known dangers, yet it's curious there are very few sites stating any kind of danger from "radar", never mind the more specific case of dangers to birds, most references suggest that its harmless.

Perhaps "radar" is a generalized term for equipment that may use frequencies outside of the strict definition of the radar frequency range, or perhaps there's been some
Google bombing by the government, part of information warfare and psyops?

This page states much of the dangers of radar and microwaves have been classified by the military:

Microwaves can be very powerful, but they do not break up the electronic structure of individual atoms or molecules. In other words, they are "non-ionizing." For that reason, they have widely been presumed not to injure human beings. The same was said of radar during the Second World War, in spite of the fact that it could heat tissue. Technicians became flushed or experienced headaches. Similar symptoms had been observed with patients undergoing diathermy treatment. Studies on rabbits, however, showed radar's dangers: They developed eye cataracts.
http://www.peacemagazine.org/archive/v03n3p09.htm


Cross posted:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
85. That's what I was thinking....nt
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #39
132. For years they said it was natural for dolphins and whales to beach themselves
It took a long time for any admission that defense technologies could be part of the problem. I wonder if a similar thing could be happening in the atmosphere...
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
44. Everyone I know has had a strange virus they just cant kick...it's bad
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #44
109. My whole office has been hacking like a bunch of 3 pack a day smokers
for the last two weeks.

Whatever is going around is really knocking people out for days and even weeks.

So far I've been lucky and have been able to ward off the demons, but now my husband is coming down with 'it' and I'm not sure I'll continue to be so lucky.

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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
52. The Shit They're Spraying in the Sky
has a lot to do with it.

Last night I looked up into the clear sky and saw one big thick trail right above the house.
It streaked across the whole sky. At night even!

I guess some of them can't even sleep unless they're fucking things up.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #52
86. Yeah, about a week ago I was driving at night
and looked up the sky....this long tube like cloud. Very strange. But I had forgotten it until you just mentioned this.

So are we all going to get respiratory problems so Big Pharma can make much more $$$$$$????

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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #52
112. .
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
58. all i know
is that i was just diagnosed with asthma last month and before that, was NEVER sick or had any kind of breathing difficulties. this really scares me!! :scared:
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #58
179. My DIL was diagnosed last summer
and she is a marathon runner, 29 years old. Also, a co-worker of hers suddenly developed asthma as well. No family history of it, either one.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
90. Could the hazy sky be that "sun screen" that NASA wants to
try out to cool the earth? Several days ago I read something about placing a screen between the earth and the sun. Don't remember where I go it from.
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #90
104. I've heard that too
I've heard even worse theories. The thing is nobody talks about it. There is a media blackout on it and government always sends the canned "contrails" reply. There are ways to lessen the effects though. Instructions and more info here: www.orgonite.info

Love and Peace!

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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #104
120. now that has to win some sort of prize
Orgonoite! I love it.

I just have one picayune question: if you need an organic substance and an inorganic substance, where is the organic substance? if you used a polyester resin, then you would have an organic (in chemical terms) substance, but fiberglass is comprised of Silicone and Oxygen, neither of which is organic.

that is, if my high school O-Chem hasn't failed me.
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #90
149. Edward Teller originally came up with the sunshield idea...
Edited on Thu Jan-11-07 02:15 PM by soulcore
whereas we could inject microscopic particulates of aluminum into the stratosphere, thereby deflecting 1% of the sun's light and cooling the earth.

There have also been suggestions of using dirty-burning jet fuel to increase cloud cover from contrails, and even using artillery to shoot huge shells of sulfur into the atmosphere to explode, where they would linger for years, in order to block sunlight.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #22
111. Wait, You're Talking About Exhaust? It's Ok, It's Relatively Harmless. Your Car Does It Too
by the way. If you look on a cold day you'll see white puffs of exhaust coming out of the back of your vehicle. It is quite similar but just on a smaller scale. Don't let it scare you.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #111
123. very harmless
the earth is in good shape
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #111
144. Granted, contrails are the same as exhaust...
Edited on Thu Jan-11-07 02:03 PM by soulcore
But when was the last time you ever saw a persistent vapor trail flowing behind a car for miles and miles. Same concept only at a higher altitude. The ice crystals *should* evaporate and dissipate after freezing in the exhaust of the engine once they fall back to the ambient temperature.

But for some reason (and only on some days, not all) these trails produce thick, white cloud cover. They also turn off and on.


Also, "contrails" aren't stringy either.


Why do we only get "persistent" contrails in the East at sunrise but in the West at sunset here in Dallas? Why does relative humidity and wind speed seem to not have any kind of consistent effect on contrail formation, persistence, etc.

And most importantly from an observational standpoint, how can two aircraft fly in the same airspace, one producing a normal contrail, the other billowing out a mile wide chemcloud behind it.

Trust me, I will be the first to admit the outlandishness of the entire situation, but observation tells me something isn't right, and it's not something you can ignore once you really notice it.

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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #144
147. You've Given Me Something To Quickly Consider.
Lemme take a moment....

....Ok. I'm done. My thoughts are

:rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl: :crazy:
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #147
151. Ok, consider this then.
Amuse me, and go look at the sky outside where you are. Do you have any large lingering "contrails" hanging overhead.

Some of my closest friends have ridiculed me on this subject until I physically took them outside and showed them the planes actually turning on the "spray", leaving a nice long fat trail, then turning off only to circle back and do it again in the opposite direction.

Take 10 minutes and really observe what's going on in the skies above you, and I mean that with the utmost sincerity.

"The universe is not only as strange as we can imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine."
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #151
152. Have You Ever, Even For A Second, Given This Some Objective Thought?
Edited on Thu Jan-11-07 02:36 PM by OPERATIONMINDCRIME
I think you owe it to yourself to turn yourself back from the edge. Pause for a second. Ask yourself:

Why would they do this? Isn't it a gazillion times more complex of a plan than would be required to achieve the same end?

Does it make sense to you that they would embark on such an overly complex and completely illogical strategy?

Is there any logic inherent within this absolutely preposterous theory whatsoever?

Wouldn't it make far more sense to spray such chemicals a bit closer to, ya know, people?

If they were to embark on some evil strategy of spraying chemicals for some evil plan, wouldn't it make far more sense to use a method and chemical combination that DIDN'T just simply sit there in the atmosphere lingering with some big visible trail?

Wouldn't it make just a weeeeeeee bit more sense to use a concoction that dissipates readily and is quickly and easily spread throughout the atmosphere in order to actually, well, ya know, be friggin effective whatsoever?

Does it actually make sense to you that they would go through alllllllllllll this trouble, just to spray some shit that just sits there and barely disperses?

Couldn't you think of a million reasons why this theory is one of the most far fetched and whacked out things you've ever given consideration to, and that there would be a countless number of other ways to go about this that not only would be undetectable or visible, but also far less complex?

Has it occurred to you that if they were to do such a premise, that they would've been wise enough to pick one of those other methods instead? Ya know, like the ones that wouldn't be visible, wouldn't be miles above any population, and ones that wouldn't just sit there and not do anything?

There is ZERO logic to your theory. Zilch, nada, none. I couldn't believe what I was reading the first time I ever saw it brought up here, and thought for certain someone was just fuckin around. I still find myself astounded that some people could lack critical thinking skills to such a degree that they would find this theory feasible for any reason whatsoever. Of all the ways I could creatively think of for our government to accomplish what you say they are trying to do, this one would be the most complex, unlikely, illogical, needlessly drawn out and completely unproductive one. It is beyond embarrassing to even consider the legitimacy of.

I was just quite fair to you, as I have just responded in a serious manner about this discussion. But this is the first and last time I will do so. This absurdity deserves no serious discussion whatsoever.
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #152
153. I appreciate the serious reply, you don't get them often
Edited on Thu Jan-11-07 02:54 PM by soulcore
However, you are assuming I have some inside knowledge as to what exactly is going on, and I do not.

I have no clue as the purpose, means or motives of what is happening. All I know is that there is an observable phenomenon happening in the skies here almost daily, that does not comply with scientific theories or principles of weather, jet exhaust, condensation, etc.

I wish I could step back from the edge, I really do. Again, my father thought I was crazy and needed serious psycological help, until he too noticed some peculiarities that he could not explain and had never really paid attention to before. I won't even go into webfalls here, as that would be met with even more ridicule.

The only thing I'm suggesting is that non-commercial jets, for some reason, are creating artificial cloud cover through some means of jet exhaust cloud seeding.

The rest is all speculation.

Check out all the photos I have up at StolenSkies.net. All taken by me in the DFW metroplex over the past 2 years, then tell me that they are all simple jet contrail exhaust plumes.

I do appreciate the serious reply, and look forward to others views on this. And you are right, some of the theories out there are ridiculous, outlandish, preposterous. But that doesn't mean you can summarily dismiss the evidence that gave rise to those theories.
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #152
157. We already know how you feel
so do the rest of us a big favour and ignore threads that are discussing things contrary to the official line.

Please.

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
145. Chemtrails!
LOL!
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
25. Bird flu. nt
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. I thought bird flu
was a disease specific to poultry. Crows?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
74. It could mutate to infect humans, so I think it could do the same for other birds. nt
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
28. They've found the reasons for the dead birds in the 2 Idaho cases
In the first, a fungus infiltrated the water supply where ducks frequented. The fungus was natural, and not caused by humans. I've actually spoken to a wildlife scientist who thinks that, while rare, the incident was almost certainly natural.

As for the dead barn owls, they're being killed by cars on the freeway. It's tragic, but I'm not sure what we're to do about it. Barn owls may very well disappear from the freeway corridor, but its nature's way to kill off the animals that can't adapt. There are 10's of thousands of barn owls in other areas of Idaho, and in some areas are even considered pests (even though they help control other pests such as mice and rats).

Not to say that humans aren't a huge detriment to the health of mother earth - we are. But not all mass deaths are human caused, or even unnatural.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. No, they haven't. They say the Idaho duck kills are CONSISTENT
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 06:10 PM by mhatrw
with bad corn tainted with fungus. But that is just their best guess. They don't know the source nor why it was only mallards nor why every single mallard in the vicinity died nor why no animals seen eating the dead mallards have shown any ill effects.

http://www.sunvalleyonline.com/news/article.asp?ID_Arti...

The behavior of the fungus matches the damage done the ducks hemorrhaging in heart muscle, bacterial lesions in their lungs. Such a large dieoff of wild ducks suggests they encountered a large concentration of the aspergillus fungus somewhere near Oakley. Investigations by DEQ and IDFG have yet to find any such concentration.

IDFG Jerome region manager Dave Parrish Thursday told the Associated Press every mallard in a radius of several miles of Oakley has died 2,500 and perhaps a few more- but no other bird species have been affected and no other biotic communities in the water or in the riparian environment alongside Land Springs Creek were disturbed. Numerous golden eagles, geese, magpies, crows populate the same area and none were found with any health problems Thursday.


http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?issue_date=12-20-20...

According Fish and Game, waterfowl die-offs are common16 events involving more than 1,000 birds have occurred in the United States in the past year. But Dave Parrish, supervisor of Fish and Game's Magic Valley Region, said he's never heard of an event this large.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=16471...

The chances are "extremely high" that Aspergillosis, which can create a fungal toxin on moldy grains and rotting corn, caused the mass die-off, said Paul Slota, a biologist with the U.S. Geological Survey's National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wis.

Aspergillosis will not spread from bird to bird. All the dead mallards probably ate from the same tainted food source, Slota said.

"We've seen that before with birds that feed heavily on grains," he said. "Never in Idaho, but there have been enough reports elsewhere in North America. Aspergillosis die-offs are not a terribly uncommon thing. It happens." ...

Parrish said every mallard in a radius of several miles died. The massive outbreak had puzzled scientists because scavenger birds feeding on the dead ducks were not showing signs of illness.


More on barn owls here: http://blog.hcn.org/goat/2006/07/22/idaho-roadkill-myst...
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
73. As I said, I spoke directly with one of the state scientists examining the birds
And his educated opinion was that the birds died a fungus that was naturally caused.

And last I heard, fungus wasn't a man-made phenomenom.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. Idaho Mallard deaths were from mouldy grain
I work in one of the diagnostic labs that handled the Idaho mallard die off cases.
The lungs were full of Aspergillus fungus.

The ducks had fed on grain dumped by cattle feedlot operations.
The weather preceding the die off had been warm and moist , just what Aspergillous fungus needs too sporulate.
While the ducks were feeding, they inhaled spores. Lungs infected.

Its not entirely uncommon. Similar Aspergillosis die-offs have occured in BC and California.


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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. It was a tragedy, but I'm not sure there was anything that could have been done
to prevent it other than closing the feedlot operations. Those are definitely an environmental hazard.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. Dumping bad grain into a stream bed is pollution.
The cattle-feeding operation should be prosecuted.

( Alas. This not likely to be persued in the potato State.)
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #81
99. Did they dump the grain in the stream
or were the ducks feeding from grain on the feedlot itself?

I agree that if the feedlot owner dumped bad grain into a stream, that he/she/the corporation should be prosecuted and jailed.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #81
137. You act as though the source has been pinpointed.
It has not according to every report I've read. Do you have information about this that the rest of us do not?
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #79
136. They don't know the source. Or do you have information that
the rest of us don't?
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #77
135. What diagnostic lab do you work in? What do you do there?
Edited on Thu Jan-11-07 02:28 PM by mhatrw
What was reported was that the tested birds' lungs were filled with bacterial lesions that are consistent with Aspergillus fungus, not that their lungs were filled with fungus.

Was Aspergillus cultured from the dead birds? If not, exactly how was this diagnosis arrived at?
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #73
93. Bacteria and fungus can develop because of climate changes.
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #93
101. Yep, they can
Edited on Thu Jan-11-07 12:41 AM by EvolveOrConvolve
Bacteria and fungus are swift to evolve to nearly any set of circumstances.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
64. So, those barn owls are all being killed by cars? That's hard to believe.
Hard to believe that almost 32% of ALL the
animals being killed by cars in any particular area
would be BIRDS, let alone a SINGLE SPECIES.

Sorry, I don't buy it.
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
76. I've lived in Idaho for 20 years
and the only creatures I've ever hit with my car, apart from a poor little dog that ran out in front of me in the dark, are birds. I've even hit a barn owl. On the lonely stretches of freeway in Idaho, it's not uncommon to see dead birds on the side of the freeway. It doesn't matter if you buy it or not - once the college students have finished studying the problem, we'll have better answers. Until then, it's simply a kneejerk reaction to lump all bird deaths in the world into the "humans are evil" category. That's not scientific or logical.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that the barn owls are using the freeway corridor for some reason. For example, maybe small rodents are attracted to something that makes the area surrounding the freeway attractive as habitat, and the barn owls have simply followed their prey.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. Howdy neighbor!
I'm a transplant to the gem state.

Homedale, Owyhee County. DEmocrats are rare birds here.
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #82
98. We need more transplants like you!
It must be hard to find any Dems out in Owyhee County.

:hi:
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #76
139. Here's the problem. Barn owls could be dropping dead all over
the sparsely populated countryside and we'd only notice those on the highway. It's called selection bias.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #64
78. Barn Owls hunt at windsheild height.
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 10:09 PM by sheeptramp
They dont look both ways before they cross the street.

Barn owl populations are cyclical, along with their rodent prey. Theres a lot of owls this winter....so theres a lot of owls on the roads. A lot of owls hit by cars and trucks.
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #78
100. There's nothing scarier than
to be driving along the freeway at night in the dark out on the desert, minding your own business and FWAAPPP, an owl slams into your windshield.

Unfortunately, I-84 is a major trucking lane and the barn owls don't have a chance against 40 or 50 tons of metal at 65 MPH.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #78
140. I don't buy it. Do they only hunt near roads? Why?
Owls are very smart. Note they could be dropping dead everywhere in the sparsely populated Idaho countryside and we'd only notice them on the road.

Furthermore, how how long have barn owls been the number one kind of road kill along this stretch of freeway? If this is a recent phenomenon, how can it be explained?

The idea that hundreds of owls running into cars is just a "natural thing" seems extremely tenuous. I've been driving my whole life and I've never one hit a bird, nor has anyone I know.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #64
121. i hit a barn owl with my car in southern NM just last month
darn thing scared the heck out of me. and I felt awful :cry:
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
72. Owls are supposed to adapt to freeways?
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Absolutely
Just as other species adapt to changes in their surroundings. Simply because the changes in their environment are manmade doesn't mean that the laws of evolution don't apply. We should limit the footprint that humans make on the earth, but we can't eradicate it completely (as we shouldn't). Every species has an impact on it's ecosystem, habitat, etc., and humans are no different.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #75
141. Human are VERY different.
No species leaves a larger footprint, and no other species has a technological footprint greater than a beaver dam.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #28
114. HOLD THE PHONE!!!!! GET OUT OF HERE WITH THOSE WILD THEORIES!!! EVERYONE KNOWS IT'S CHEMTRAILS!!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #114
116. LOL, I sense some sarcasm
Check out dbt's post below for some real laughs.

:rofl:
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #116
130. Laughs Indeed.
I think the chemtrails have caused some to lose a sense of rationality...

...oh, wait.

:rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #114
168. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #168
169. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MistressOverdone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. Everybody have their duct tape ready? n/t
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
34. Sounds like the media suddenly discovered a coincidence...
And is turning it into something bigger than it is. Given that there are billions and bilions of birds around the globe, this does not seem like a significant number...

I have a feeling this number of bird die offs may not be unusual, just now that a couple are in the U.S. the media has latched onto it...

If they were all in the same place from the same cause that would be one thing...but this seems like media boredom to me!
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. The "media" has yet to discover this coincidence.
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 06:05 PM by mhatrw
Most of these (the exception being the Colorado report) are isolated in both time and location and not reported in conjunction with any other die offs.

People are probably more apt to report this stuff because of bird flu scare mongering and the local media is more apt to report it for the same reason.

On the other hand, reported or not, thousands of birds dropping dead in one location is not an everyday occurrence. Some of these reports definitely bear more scrutiny.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. But the fact...
That there are discrete bird die offs in different areas of the world from different causes is not particularly significant...

Bird die offs need to be investigated for airborne toxins or West Nile...but they are not all that novel.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. West Nile, Avian Flu, toxins or something else?
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 06:22 PM by mhatrw
When a bunch of birds die, it behooves us to find out why -- just as it does if a bunch of humans or cattle or even fish die. We are not that different from birds.

I'm not saying that all these bird die offs are related. They may not even be any cause for alarm. But each and every case bears closer scrutiny, IMHO.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
37. I saw a dead rat on the pavement

in our neighborhood and I have never seen one around here at all.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
40. There Were About 75 Birds In My Back Yard Today... But They Were
alive. It was strange to see so many in one place though and it's never happened before.

Must be "Bird-Day" or something!

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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. I've had that experience....
one day I observed hundreds of noisy birds in the trees and sky over my backyard. I even called my kids out to see it and we were all astounded. The ones that flew away, were all flying in the same direction. Later that night, we had what was likely a tornado, lost many, many 50+ year old oaks and pines throughout our neighborhood. Also, lost our power for four days. The direction the birds were headed turned out to be away from the storm.

I take these animal "signs" pretty seriously now.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Whoops... Now I Am Worried!
Up until a few days ago, it's been really really warm, actually "hot" here in my part of Florida!

Wonder if WE are in for something "new?" There was some tornado action close by on Christmas day which was unusual for us.

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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. check this
here in california, we are in for a "severe weather alert" with nighttime temps in the teens and low 20's. this just doesn't happen here except for rare rare occasions and never in january. it's usually raining and with mild weather this time of year.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Well, Al Gore Has It Nailed!
We ARE screwing around with this EARTH and we ARE going to pay the price I fear!

I may not be around to see it, but it's truly sad!
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #51
84. when all of the crows start wearing gasmasks
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 11:17 PM by SlavesandBulldozers
i'll take it as a bad sign
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #84
102. Well, I didn't see the birds as more than a natural indicator...
of severe weather, but the severe weather we had was unusual for the time of year (this was late August/early September of 2005). And, for what it's worth, we have had extremely mild winters by MN standards most of the last decade.

And if I ever see crows wearing gas masks I WILL take it as a bad sign....and check myself into the nearest psych ward. :+
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. Mom and I have always called those "bird-ins."
Then we come up with the dialogue for their convention.

"The Speaker will hear from the esteemed Wing-Beaker the Third." "Hear, hear!" Stuff like that. Yeah, we're weird. :)
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. That's Pretty Cute.... I Just Was Intrigued! n/t
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
95. I once saw a tree where there were dozens, if not hundreds
of birds chirping, all concentrated in that single tree, all chirping their heads off. The high pitched sound sounded like something out of a horror film. It was kind of creepy.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #95
148. Starlings
AKA ratbirds.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
56. What have we done?
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. We have shit our nest. n/t
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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
67. Indian (Native American) Prophecy:

They also talk about trees dying from the top down.



"Warriors of the Rainbow

There would come a time when the earth would be ravaged of it's resources, the sea blackened, the streams poisoned, the deer dropping dead in their tracks. Just before it was too late, the Indian would regain his spirit and teach the white man reverence for the earth, banding together with him to become Warriors of the Rainbow.

There was an old lady, from the "Cree" tribe, named "Eyes of Fire", who prophesied that one day, because of the white mans' or Yo-ne-gis' greed, there would come a time, when the fish would die in the streams, the birds would fall from the air, the waters would be blackened, and the trees would no longer be, mankind as we would know it would all but cease to exist.

There would come a time when the "keepers of the legend, stories, culture rituals, and myths, and all the Ancient Tribal Customs" would be needed to restore us to health. They would be mankinds key to survival, they were the "Warriors of the Rainbow". There would come a day of awakening when all the peoples of all the tribes would form a New World of Justice, Peace, Freedom and recognition of the Great Spirit.

The "Warriors of the Rainbow" would spread these messages and teach all peoples of the Earth or "Elohi". They would teach them how to live the "Way of the Great Spirit". They would tell them of how the world today has turned away from the Great Spirit and that is why our Earth is "Sick". "

http://www.wovoca.com/prophecy-cree2.htm

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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Very interesting, thank you for that link kohodog...
there are many mysteries of life that are yet to be solved :scared:
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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. you're welcome. There are many similar sources. n/t
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #67
115. Meegwich - see also Odyssey of the 8th Fire, especially Day 15
Edited on Thu Jan-11-07 08:14 AM by SpiralHawk
See Day 15 of this true saga

http://www.8thfire.net /




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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #115
163. Thank you. interesting link.
du is an amazing collection of individuals who much to teach and learn from each other.
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CabalPowered Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
68. One note on your last citation
The owl die off on I84 is mostly collision and not some pathogen or environmental variable. For some reason they like to congregate near the highway. I've come really close to hitting several myself.
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
80. Even more dramatic than amphibians dying from sunburn...
...hopefully this time it will get more attention. Another upcoming disaster...ph of the ocean is changing, making it more difficult for shellfish to form shells. Sorry.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
83. kick
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
87. Is this the canary in the mine? It is certainly scary.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
89. There are a lot of fish farms in the Magic Valley area...
They're notorious for developning nasty viruses. Birds that eat the fish die from the viruses.

(Easily googled info I don't feel like compiling)
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
92. The pigeons seem to be doing okay so far
nasty flying rats.
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ruiner4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
96. post reminds me of Day after Tomorrow when all the birds went freakty n/t
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
105. Oh, god, I'm having a dejavu -- didn't this get posted once before?
Like a couple months ago? With all the same replies in the thread -

including this one??
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terip64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
106. Your post has been linked to rawstory!!! n/t
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
107. Kicked and Recommended. Props to the Chemtrail observers!
As recently as a year ago, anyone daring to post on "that" topic would've been hooted right out of this thread. Looks like the phenomenon has spread to the point where it cannot be ignored any longer: those jets are deliberately generating cloud cover.

I am not saying that the Chemtrails (and/or HAARP, for they do seem to be interrelated) have anything to with the bird die-offs, but there is nothing too extreme for this government to undertake. Chemtrails are just as viable a theory of the cause as anything else.

Well spoken, my fellow Watchers!

:freak:
dbt
Committee On Noticing Spray Programs Involving Real Aircraft Calculated Yearly

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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #107
129. Chemtrails = Wild Figments Of One's Over-Active Imagination.
No, jets aren't deliberately generating cloud cover. It's called exhaust. It's a quite normal and common product of combustion. No phenomenon, and we are still overall ignoring the exhaust of jets, as we should.

OMC
Committee On Not Spewing Painfully Illogical & Ridiculously Asinine Conspiracy Yammering
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vatgrown Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #129
170. This is denial, not argument.
As I've said elsewhere: you are ruling out, a priori, an argument, not responding to it rationally, much less refuting it. Photos prior to 1998 - except for cloud-seeding photos - do not show these trails: dense, refracting, manytimes oily-looking, manytimes precipitating particulate matter or strings of "cobweb" material, coming out of planes in a puff-puff "donuts on a rope" pattern suggestive of particulate coming out of a cycling PUMP. Remember the story of the Emperor's New Clothes, people. That story is about the ubiquity of subconscious FEAR controlling our perception (what is it today? Orange alert? are we ever given a reason or suggested to respond rationally? NO, only to raise our level of FEAR). All you have to do is look at this trails spreading out to create cloud-cover: contrails (of ice, water vapor) do not, cannot, unpack to cover the whole sky over a period of many hours. No amount of head-in-the-sand "debunkers" can change the fact of what is happening. Check out carnicom.com.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #129
181. There was a post here recently
with a link to a film called global dimming. The long and short of it was that these contrails are keeping the temperature down and without them the effects of global warming would be more apparent.
It was an eye opener. I would not put it past the ptb to be doing this to mitigate the higher temps to buy some time.
I don't know anything about chemtrails though..
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
110. Canaries in the coal mine. n/t
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
119. OMG...
it's not the sky that's falling, it's Henny Penny herself. And it's the King and his people who are killing them.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
125. These all sound like local die-offs, and not the result of global warming
or other mega-weather phenomena. It's creepy, but I'll bet there's hardly a day goes by that quantities of "mysterious" dead birds don't show up somehwere on the planet. The most worrisome potential cause in these cases, IMO, is H5N1 bird flu.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #125
131. My thought, too. Until there can be a quanitfiable cause of death that
is the same in each case, we don't have a cluster of anything. It's like looking at murder stats from around the world and concluding that they were all committed by the same killer. Thinking of a red car makes you more likely to notice how many there are on the highway. There aren't more red cars all of a sudden, just more awareness in yourself of what was already there.

Jury is still out for me until we find out for sure what the c.o.d. is in these cases to be sure there is a correlation.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
126. another warning
This is reminiscent of something thats been going on with some amphibians in the last few years.
In certain ponds and lakes in the midwest frogs and toads have been turning up with many many mutations (multiple legs, no legs ect..). Someone once told me that genetically amphibians are the most sensitive to environmental changes. Maybe all this stuff with birds is another indicator of serious environmental toxin buildup.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
134. Everybody looks for a virus, nobody looks at pollution
People want this to be a virus because then a company can get rich making a treatment for it. If it's all the benzene (or manganese, or tungsten, or God knows what) we've been pumping into the air, nobody gets rich fixing that. So people quietly ignore it.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
138. birds are a sentinel species, when oddities happen to birds, frogs, mice and the like...
shit is going to hell somewhere, just nobody knows it yet
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
142. Clearlake California with the largest lake in that state
Edited on Thu Jan-11-07 01:50 PM by truedelphi
Had huge numbers of lake birds killed over the summer of 2006

First the fish died off - some say from algae, or other aquatic plant like hydrilla. Others say the fish died from the pesticide treatment for the hydrilla bloom.

Then the lake birds died.

This affected tourism in a huge way.
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
154. Chemtrails, HAARP...
...no wonder it was dumped here.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #154
172. What is HAARP?
Could you tell us in your own words?
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #172
183. HIGH FREQUENCY ACTIVE AURORAL RESEARCH PROGRAM
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
156. Heaven forbid you try to have any serious kind of discussion
regarding less than universally accepted topics.

To the dungeon we go!
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #156
158. Too bad the actual causes are ignored by chemtrail fans ya mean?
Does it mean anything that chemtrailers tend to look for answers to come from "somewhere in the sky" rather than here on Earth for other issues? I think it does.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #158
161. I find it weird that an OP that is SOLELY a bunch of mainstream
media reports has been moved here.

The chemtrails subthread was not a major part of this thread and was never even hinted at in the OP, and the skeptics had their say in spades. So what was the problem?

After 52 recs it goes to the dungeon?
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #161
162. It's unfortunate that the discussion veered into baseless CT territory. nt
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #161
164. It's too bad you can't "split" threads.
I've seen many a thread that had this happen and it would be nice if it were possible for moderators to "split" them in some way (the reverse of LBN's combining feature) so the subthreads that run amok could be sent to the appropriate group while the parent thread stayed where it was.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
159. You know, this OP puts a lot of things in perspective. n/t
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
165. thanks chemtrailers for marginalizing this topic
great job.
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #165
166. Please blame the mod who felt the need to bury it in the 911 dungeon n/t
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #166
174. i understand why though
pitty
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #165
171. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #165
173. I agree
There wasn't anything wrong with the OP, unfortunately it attracted the attention of chemtrailer quacks.
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #173
175. Excuse me but
there now seems to be more people curious and concerned with what's happening in our skies than there are the debunker disruptor types who hijack the conversations by screaming their predictable hysteria over and over and over.

I'd like to know what is so wrong with discussing phenomena that we are actually observing with our own eyes? This disruption (and moving to the dungeon) is nothing more than censorship.

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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #175
176. "what is so wrong with discussing phenomena that we are actually observing with our own eyes? "
Nothing at all.
The slide begins when baseless speculation takes precedence over a birds eye view of the evidence.

Nobody has seen the topic of baseless speculation with their own eyes. A peculiar illogical interpretation is being overlayed onto common empirical evidence.
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caprione Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #176
177. chemtrails
i dunno what those "chem"trails are..
we see them a lot here in the Netherlands.
the closest airport is about 250 miles from my hometown, but still somedays all of a sudden 5 or 6 planes cross the sky at the same time making these trails that sometimes turn into brown or black.. or get interrupted..

i dunno what they are... they certainly dont look like normal contrails..
ok, call me a nutt now :P..

greetz from the Netherlands..
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #177
178. Welcome to DU
Fancy meeting you here in the dungeon! Those who don't use the senses God gave them prefer to call us the nuts here.

:tinfoilhat:
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