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Did the passengers of AA 11 embark the wrong plane? Part 2

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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 10:18 AM
Original message
Did the passengers of AA 11 embark the wrong plane? Part 2
Edited on Mon Jun-21-04 10:21 AM by DulceDecorum
This is a continuation of the thread commenced by woody b
Did the passengers of AA 11 embark the wrong plane in Boston?

Since 9/12/01 we are told that the passengers of AA 11 were waiting at gate 26 and boarding the plane there.
Now look at this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/16/national/16TEXT-FLIGH... ...
///// 7:45:48 -- Ground Control 1: American eleven heavy boston ground gate thirty two you're going to wait for a Saab to go by then push back. /////
Gate 32???
The distance between gate 26 and gate 32 is about 1000 ft.
Any comments?

The last post of interest was placed by a newcomer.
Welcome to the Democratic underground, Lonestar.
122. Flight 11 left Gate 32

Flight 11 left from Gate 32. That is the gate number that is reflected in the transcript. That is the gate number where the 200 American Airlines employees gathered a year after the attacks. That is one of two gates at Boston that has an American Flag affixed at the end of the jetway marking the location the ill-fated flight departed from. The other is C-19 where United 175 departed from.
Flight 11 was supposedly a Boeing 767 - a widebody jet. Gate 32 is configured to be able to accomodate a wide body jet. Gate 26 is not. It can only handle narrow body jets like a 757, 737 or MD-80.
So why did so many in the media report Gate 26? Shoddy reporting. They are obviously confusing the departure gate American Airlines Flight 11 used a BOS (Terminal B Gate 32) with the departure gate American Airlines Flight 77 used out of Dulles. (Gate D26)
I'm not quite sure why some people are trying to figure out where a Sabena plane might have possibly come from. Flight 11 wasn't told to wait for a Sabena plane to pass. Flight 11 was told to wait for a Saab to pass.
A Saab is a type of commuter aircraft, and most likely it was an American Eagle flight scheduled to depart Boston at 7:45 a.m. for Rochester, NY. It's tail number was N903AE although in the BTS on time reports for American Eagle it shows the tail as N903MP. N903AE is a Saab. It pushed back from it's gate four minutes early at 7:41 and took off at 7:49 and most likely was the aircraft that Flight 11 was told to wait for.
Also on the transcript at around 7:55 a.m. or so American 11 is told "Continental's waiting for you." I believe this is in reference to a Continental jet that had landed (I can't remember where from - Newark maybe and www.bts.gov is down right now so I can't check) at 7:53 a.m. but didn't get to it's gate until 8:04. Most likely this Continental jet landed and then "waited" for Flight 11 to go by before proceeding to it's gate.
As for what flight might have been at Gate 26 in Boston's Terminal B around 7:25 a.m. - the time passengers were seen boarding - my guess is that it was the aircraft that operated as Flight 138 from San Jose, CA. It was scheduled to arrive at 6:01 a.m. but it was an hour and fifteen minutes late and arrived at the gate at 7:16 a.m. After unloading passengers, it changed to Flight 1971 -- an 8:20 a.m. departure to San Juan. Flight 1971 ended up pushing back from it's gate 11 minutes early at 8:09 and took off at 8:34 about 20 minutes before Boston airspace was shut down.
The aircraft that operated this flight was a Boeing 757 - a narrowbody jet -- and thus could have been accomodated at Gate 26. Plus, since it was an hour and fifteen minutes late in arriving, maybe it had to use a different gate than it normally would have.


The discussion continues.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. The relevant BTS stats for Logan BOS on September 11, 2001
Edited on Mon Jun-21-04 10:36 AM by DulceDecorum
"Departure Statistic(s):Actual Departure Time"
"Airport(s):BOS"
"Airline(s):AA"
"Month(s):September"
"Day(s):11"
"Year(s):2001"

"Airport: Boston, MA-Logan International (BOS)"

Carrier Code, Date (MM/DD/YYYY), Flight Number, Tail Number, Destination Airport, Actual Departure Time

AA, 09/11/2001, 0145, UNKNOW, SJC, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0153, N232AA, ORD, 8:29
AA, 09/11/2001, 0163, UNKNOW, LAX, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0181, UNKNOW, LAX, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0189, N3BMAA, SEA, 8:43
AA, 09/11/2001, 0193, UNKNOW, SFO, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0195, UNKNOW, SFO, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0197, UNKNOW, SFO, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0223, UNKNOW, LAX, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0225, UNKNOW, SAN, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0259, UNKNOW, SJC, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0269, N636AA, SJC, 7:57
AA, 09/11/2001, 0277, UNKNOW, SAN, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0363, UNKNOW, AUS, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0401, UNKNOW, SJU, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0449, UNKNOW, MIA, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0461, N255AA, DFW, 6:39
AA, 09/11/2001, 0489, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0583, UNKNOW, DFW, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 0645, N3BLAA, JFK, 6:01
AA, 09/11/2001, 1011, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1019, N078AA, SJU, 7:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1025, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1079, UNKNOW, DFW, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1101, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1115, UNKNOW, MIA, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1117, UNKNOW, DFW, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1121, UNKNOW, DFW, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1135, N2CFAA, ORD, 6:51
AA, 09/11/2001, 1141, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1285, UNKNOW, DFW, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1353, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1367, UNKNOW, MIA, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1547, N321AA, MCO, 7:26
AA, 09/11/2001, 1555, N3BBAA, ORD, 5:54
AA, 09/11/2001, 1629, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1633, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1663, N521AA, DFW, 7:05
AA, 09/11/2001, 1711, N061AA, MIA, 6:04
AA, 09/11/2001, 1757, N3CLAA, ORD, 7:37
AA, 09/11/2001, 1797, UNKNOW, DFW, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1811, N2CBAA, DCA, 6:37
AA, 09/11/2001, 1813, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1821, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1837, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1849, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1857, N630AA, DFW, 8:14
AA, 09/11/2001, 1859, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1861, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1887, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1901, UNKNOW, MIA, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1971, N5EPAA, SJU, 8:09
AA, 09/11/2001, 1983, N3BRAA, FLL, 6:32
AA, 09/11/2001, 2027, UNKNOW, DFW, 0:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 2055, UNKNOW, DFW, 0:00
The total number of American Airlines records: 55

"Airport: Boston, MA-Logan International (BOS)"
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4561, UNKNOW, ISP, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4564, UNKNOW, PWM, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4570, N726MQ, RDU, 6:16
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4573, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4576, N286MQ, HPN, 5:49
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4580, UNKNOW, HPN, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4582, N266MQ, HPN, 6:49
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4584, UNKNOW, HPN, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4586, UNKNOW, HPN, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4588, UNKNOW, HPN, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4590, UNKNOW, HPN, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4602, UNKNOW, RDU, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4604, UNKNOW, ISP, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4606, N259MQ, BTV, 8:24
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4607, UNKNOW, ISP, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4608, UNKNOW, BTV, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4611, UNKNOW, PWM, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4612, UNKNOW, PWM, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4620, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4623, UNKNOW, BTV, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4626, UNKNOW, ISP, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4630, UNKNOW, ISP, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4634, UNKNOW, RDU, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4638, UNKNOW, BTV, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4640, N733MQ, EWR, 6:30
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4642, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4644, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4646, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4648, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4650, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4652, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4654, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4662, UNKNOW, RDU, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4681, UNKNOW, BWI, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4684, UNKNOW, ROC, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4731, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4733, UNKNOW, RDU, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4734, UNKNOW, RIC, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4740, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4756, UNKNOW, BTV, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4758, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4762, UNKNOW, PWM, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4765, UNKNOW, HPN, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4768, UNKNOW, HPN, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4770, UNKNOW, HPN, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4786, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4791, N721MQ, BWI, 6:48
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4793, UNKNOW, BWI, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4795, UNKNOW, BWI, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4797, UNKNOW, BWI, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4799, UNKNOW, BWI, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4819, UNKNOW, ISP, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4860, UNKNOW, PWM, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4864, UNKNOW, PWM, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4878, UNKNOW, ROC, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4880, N903MQ, ROC, 7:41
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4884, UNKNOW, ROC, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4890, UNKNOW, ISP, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4892, N283MQ, ALB, 8:18
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4896, UNKNOW, ALB, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4902, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4911, UNKNOW, PWM, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4914, N313MQ, PWM, 8:09
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4915, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4918, UNKNOW, ISP, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4922, N334MQ, BGR, 7:35
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4924, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4926, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4928, UNKNOW, ALB, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4929, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4933, N340MQ, ISP, 7:56
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4934, UNKNOW, ISP, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4935, UNKNOW, BNA, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4937, UNKNOW, BNA, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4940, N724MQ, RIC, 8:36
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4942, UNKNOW, RIC, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4944, UNKNOW, RIC, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4946, UNKNOW, BGR, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4948, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4952, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4956, N234MQ, PHL, 6:58
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4960, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4969, N737MQ, ORF, 8:17
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4971, UNKNOW, ORF, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4973, UNKNOW, ORF, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4976, UNKNOW, CMH, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4979, UNKNOW, BNA, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4980, UNKNOW, CMH, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4982, UNKNOW, CMH, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4984, UNKNOW, CMH, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4988, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4990, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4992, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 4994, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 5002, UNKNOW, JFK, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 5015, UNKNOW, JFK, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 5018, UNKNOW, JFK, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 5036, UNKNOW, JFK, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 5056, UNKNOW, JFK, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 5122, N253MQ, JFK, 8:05
MQ, 09/11/2001, 5123, UNKNOW, JFK, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 5143, UNKNOW, JFK, 0:00
MQ, 09/11/2001, 5172, UNKNOW, JFK, 0:00
The total number of American Eagle records: 103

"Airport: Boston, MA-Logan International (BOS)"
CO, 09/11/2001, 0009, N72824, EWR, 6:57
CO, 09/11/2001, 0020, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0183, UNKNOW, IAH, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0683, N14889, IAH, 7:44
CO, 09/11/2001, 0783, UNKNOW, IAH, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0837, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0839, N98876, EWR, 6:28
CO, 09/11/2001, 0841, N16808, EWR, 5:56
CO, 09/11/2001, 0845, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0847, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0849, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0851, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0853, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0855, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0857, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0859, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0861, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0865, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0867, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 0869, UNKNOW, EWR, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 1031, UNKNOW, CLE, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 1083, UNKNOW, IAH, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 1431, UNKNOW, CLE, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 1531, N69333, CLE, 6:01
CO, 09/11/2001, 1631, UNKNOW, CLE, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 1831, UNKNOW, CLE, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 1883, UNKNOW, IAH, 0:00
CO, 09/11/2001, 1904, UNKNOW, IAH, 0:00
The total number of Continental Airlines records: 28

"Airport: Boston, MA-Logan International (BOS)"
DL, 09/11/2001, 0061, N1200K, LAX, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 0138, N173DN, JFK, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 0197, N6703D, ATL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 0295, N505DA, CVG, 6:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 0355, N665DN, DFW, 5:50
DL, 09/11/2001, 0565, N394DA, SLC, 6:59
DL, 09/11/2001, 0567, N501DA, CVG, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 0589, N110DL, ATL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 0631, N910DE, ATL, 6:08
DL, 09/11/2001, 0849, N510DA, ATL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 0905, N522DA, DFW, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 0915, N177DZ, ATL, 7:11
DL, 09/11/2001, 1035, N605DL, SLC, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1043, N113DA, ATL, 7:48
DL, 09/11/2001, 1069, N692DL, ATL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1181, N540DA, DFW, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1207, N108DL, ATL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1479, N377DA, ATL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1485, N602DL, CVG, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1535, N619DL, SLC, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1721, N6703D, CVG, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1821, N398DA, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1823, N3733Z, LGA, 7:30
DL, 09/11/2001, 1825, N396DA, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1827, N3737C, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1829, N398DA, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1831, N3733Z, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1833, N396DA, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1835, N3737C, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1837, N398DA, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1839, N3733Z, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1841, N396DA, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1843, N3737C, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1845, N398DA, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1847, N3733Z, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1849, N396DA, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1851, N3737C, LGA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1857, N904DL, ATL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1861, N178DZ, CVG, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1909, N119DL, LAS, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 1989, N189DN, LAX, 8:05
DL, 09/11/2001, 2001, N695DA, ATL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2111, N907DE, ATL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2129, N3739P, CVG, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2179, N3737C, LGA, 5:59
DL, 09/11/2001, 2321, N310DA, FLL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2349, N311DL, MCO, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2351, N316DL, MCO, 7:52
DL, 09/11/2001, 2397, N382DL, PBI, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2415, N380DL, MCO, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2433, N380DL, RSW, 8:02
DL, 09/11/2001, 2435, N382DL, PBI, 7:47
DL, 09/11/2001, 2439, N242WA, RSW, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2441, N332DL, RSW, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2457, N242WA, MCO, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2467, N377DL, MCO, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2473, N313DL, MCO, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2477, N328DL, MCO, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2511, N311DL, TPA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2517, N245WA, TPA, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2525, N309DL, FLL, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2545, N324DL, FLL, 6:57
DL, 09/11/2001, 2557, N306DL, PBI, 0:00
DL, 09/11/2001, 2599, N324DL, FLL, 0:00
The total number of Delta Airlines records: 64

"Airport: Boston, MA-Logan International (BOS)"
UA, 09/11/2001, 0051, UNKNOW, LAX, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0159, UNKNOW, SFO, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0161, UNKNOW, SFO, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0163, N526UA, SFO, 6:57
UA, 09/11/2001, 0167, UNKNOW, SFO, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0169, UNKNOW, LAX, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0171, UNKNOW, SFO, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0173, UNKNOW, SFO, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0175, N612UA, LAX, 7:58
UA, 09/11/2001, 0177, UNKNOW, LAX, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0199, UNKNOW, IAD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0211, N463UA, IAD, 7:39
UA, 09/11/2001, 0223, UNKNOW, IAD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0317, UNKNOW, IAD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0420, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0503, N314UA, ORD, 5:52
UA, 09/11/2001, 0505, N431UA, DEN, 7:52
UA, 09/11/2001, 0507, N564UA, ORD, 7:28
UA, 09/11/2001, 0509, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0515, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0519, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0523, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0531, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0575, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0583, N433UA, DEN, 5:57
UA, 09/11/2001, 0595, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0701, UNKNOW, DEN, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0883, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0895, N461UA, ORD, 8:24
UA, 09/11/2001, 0987, UNKNOW, JFK, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 0999, UNKNOW, SFO, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1015, UNKNOW, DEN, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1051, UNKNOW, IAD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1119, UNKNOW, DEN, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1153, UNKNOW, IAD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1411, UNKNOW, IAD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1439, N356UA, ORD, 6:26
UA, 09/11/2001, 1607, UNKNOW, DEN, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1685, UNKNOW, IAD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1690, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1789, UNKNOW, ORD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1877, N556UA, IAD, 6:39
UA, 09/11/2001, 1879, UNKNOW, IAD, 0:00
UA, 09/11/2001, 1947, N435UA, IAD, 0:00
The total number of United Airlines records: 44

"Airport: Boston, MA-Logan International (BOS)"
US, 09/11/2001, 0155, UNKNOW, PIT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0171, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0323, N819US, CLT, 6:32
US, 09/11/2001, 0343, UNKNOW, CLT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0344, UNKNOW, PIT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0355, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0409, UNKNOW, CLT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0575, UNKNOW, CLT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0589, UNKNOW, CLT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0677, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0765, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0854, UNKNOW, CLT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0859, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0920, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 0979, N824US, PIT, 8:42
US, 09/11/2001, 1021, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 1167, N813US, PHL, 6:55
US, 09/11/2001, 1168, N434US, PHL, 8:39
US, 09/11/2001, 1401, UNKNOW, CLT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 1473, UNKNOW, CLT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 1607, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 1636, UNKNOW, PIT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 1655, UNKNOW, PIT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 1823, UNKNOW, PIT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 1873, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 1899, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 1983, UNKNOW, PIT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 1995, N124UW, PHL, 7:39
US, 09/11/2001, 2149, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2178, N512AU, PHL, 5:40
US, 09/11/2001, 2329, N606AU, PIT, 6:25
US, 09/11/2001, 2412, UNKNOW, PHL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2429, N715UW, PHL, 6:09
US, 09/11/2001, 2438, UNKNOW, PIT, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2602, N252AU, TPA, 6:23
US, 09/11/2001, 2603, UNKNOW, BWI, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2611, N243US, BWI, 7:26
US, 09/11/2001, 2635, UNKNOW, FLL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2653, UNKNOW, MCO, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2673, UNKNOW, TPA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2675, UNKNOW, TPA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2726, N259AU, BWI, 5:58
US, 09/11/2001, 2747, UNKNOW, TPA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2823, N284AU, MCO, 7:13
US, 09/11/2001, 2825, UNKNOW, MCO, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2829, UNKNOW, FLL, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2847, N260AU, PBI, 8:38
US, 09/11/2001, 2851, UNKNOW, PBI, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2968, UNKNOW, BWI, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2969, UNKNOW, BWI, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2970, UNKNOW, BWI, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 2993, N242US, FLL, 8:05
US, 09/11/2001, 6507, N753UW, DCA, 5:56
US, 09/11/2001, 6509, N754UW, DCA, 6:58
US, 09/11/2001, 6511, N752UW, DCA, 7:57
US, 09/11/2001, 6515, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6517, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6519, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6521, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6523, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6525, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6527, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6529, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6531, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6533, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6535, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6537, UNKNOW, DCA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6801, N110UW, LGA, 6:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6803, N111UW, LGA, 6:53
US, 09/11/2001, 6805, N750UW, LGA, 7:58
US, 09/11/2001, 6807, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6809, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6811, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6815, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6817, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6819, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6821, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6823, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6825, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6827, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6829, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6831, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6833, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
US, 09/11/2001, 6835, UNKNOW, LGA, 0:00
The total number of US Airways records: 84
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. American Airlines Terminals and Gates
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LoneStar Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Articles referencing AA 77's Gate Number
A few articles which refer to Flight 77's departure gate as being D26.

Minneapolis Star Tribune:

"American Flight 77 had more than an hour earlier pulled out of Gate D26 at Dulles and was reaching its normal cruising altitude at 35,000 feet when it became apparent that hijackers were turning the plane around."

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/703150.html

Los Angeles Times:

"On the morning of Sept. 11, Al-Midhar and Alhamzi entered Dulles, and no alarms were raised.

So, when they and their three cohorts approached Gate D26 before the scheduled 8:10 a.m. departure, the ticketing agents had no way of knowing the unsettling descriptions that lay within the files of the FBI, the CIA, the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Customs Service."

http://www.webcom.com/hrin/magazine/la-watchlist.html

Seattle Post Intelligencer:

"In Boston, the families of employees of American Airlines attended a memorial at Logan Airport, where the flights of two hijacked airlines began. At Dulles International Airport near Washington, D.C., where another of the hijacked planes had departed from Gate D26, pilots, flight attendants and other airline workers recited prayers and poems."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/86706_main12.sht...

Cox News Service:

"Despite their presence on the terrorist watch list, Almihdhar and Alhazmi raised no alarms when they arrived at Dulles before the scheduled 8:10 a.m. departure Sept. 11. They and their three cohorts entered through Gate D26."

http://www.billstclair.com/911timeline/2001/coxnews1021...

Again, I think the mix-up can be attributed to sloppy reporting, which really isn't that surprising. It seems like these days the media is more concerned with who can break the story first rather than who can give the most accurate account of events taking place.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. No such number, no such zone
After removing the no-shows,
these are the American Airlines actual departures
out of Logan for September 11, 2001.

AA, 09/11/2001, 0153, N232AA, ORD, 8:29
AA, 09/11/2001, 0189, N3BMAA, SEA, 8:43
AA, 09/11/2001, 0269, N636AA, SJC, 7:57
AA, 09/11/2001, 0461, N255AA, DFW, 6:39
AA, 09/11/2001, 0645, N3BLAA, JFK, 6:01
AA, 09/11/2001, 1019, N078AA, SJU, 7:00
AA, 09/11/2001, 1135, N2CFAA, ORD, 6:51
AA, 09/11/2001, 1547, N321AA, MCO, 7:26
AA, 09/11/2001, 1555, N3BBAA, ORD, 5:54
AA, 09/11/2001, 1663, N521AA, DFW, 7:05
AA, 09/11/2001, 1711, N061AA, MIA, 6:04
AA, 09/11/2001, 1757, N3CLAA, ORD, 7:37
AA, 09/11/2001, 1811, N2CBAA, DCA, 6:37
AA, 09/11/2001, 1857, N630AA, DFW, 8:14
AA, 09/11/2001, 1971, N5EPAA, SJU, 8:09
AA, 09/11/2001, 1983, N3BRAA, FLL, 6:32
The total number of RELEVANT American Airlines records: 16

We have been given to understand that American Airlines Flight 11 took off from Logan International Airport on September 11, 2001.
We are told repeatedly that Flight 11 took place aboard N334AA.
Do you see that N-number, N334AA, anywhere above?

DulceDecorum has previously stated that
according to the FAA,
a valid N-number can have ONLY one or two letters
AND
these MUST be the final one or two alphanumerics in the N-Number.
If there are more than two letters,
or if the letters are NOT the suffix,
then the N-number is bogus.
Furthermore,
N-numbers cannot have a zero as the first number after the initial N.

LoneStar has subsequently informed us that
American Airlines frequently confuses its internal fleet numbers with FAA issued N-numbers.
Thus the resulting "N-Number" reported to the BTS
is often actually an amalgam of fleet number and the Two letter airline code.

LoneStar said:
For some reason AA frequently reports the tail # using their internal fleet number, but there is a way to convert them. The fleet number is the number and two letters between the "N" and the "AA". Based on what I can tell, if the number after the "N" is a "5" then it's a 757, if the number is a "3" it's a 737 and if it's a "4" it's a MD-80 or variant.

LoneStar added:
I forgot to mention that the tail numbers on the BTS report that start with "N" and then a zero are also all cases where American Airlines is using their internal fleet numbers as part of the tail number in it's report to the Bureau of Transportation. Those aircraft you all mentioned were Airbus A-300's.

OK.
Lets play.
LoneStar,
please do not hesitate to correct me if I am wrong.

First we separate the FAA N-numbers from the AA junk.
FAA N-numbers
AA, 09/11/2001, 0153, N232AA, ORD, 8:29 O'Hare International
AA, 09/11/2001, 0269, N636AA, SJC, 7:57 San Jose International
AA, 09/11/2001, 0461, N255AA, DFW, 6:39 Dallas Fort Worth Int.
AA, 09/11/2001, 1547, N321AA, MCO, 7:26 Orlando International
AA, 09/11/2001, 1663, N521AA, DFW, 7:05 Dallas Fort Worth Int.
AA, 09/11/2001, 1857, N630AA, DFW, 8:14 Dallas Fort Worth Int.

American Airlines Junk numbers.
AA, 09/11/2001, 0189, N3BMAA, SEA, 8:43 Seattle-Tacoma International
AA, 09/11/2001, 0645, N3BLAA, JFK, 6:01 John F. Kennedy Int.
AA, 09/11/2001, 1019, N078AA, SJU, 7:00 Luis Munoz Marin Int.
AA, 09/11/2001, 1135, N2CFAA, ORD, 6:51 O'Hare International
AA, 09/11/2001, 1555, N3BBAA, ORD, 5:54 O'Hare International
AA, 09/11/2001, 1711, N061AA, MIA, 6:04 Miami International
AA, 09/11/2001, 1757, N3CLAA, ORD, 7:37 O'Hare International
AA, 09/11/2001, 1811, N2CBAA, DCA, 6:37 R.Reagan Washington National
AA, 09/11/2001, 1971, N5EPAA, SJU, 8:09 Luis Munoz Marin Int.
AA, 09/11/2001, 1983, N3BRAA, FLL, 6:32 Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood Int.

So far, so good.
Let us run the valid-looking N-numbers through the FAA database.
N232AA is Assigned. It is a 1983 DC-9-82(MD-82).
N636AA is Assigned. It is a 1986 ALLEVA ANTHONY DRAGONFLY single engine.
N255AA is Assigned. It is a 1984 DC-9-82(MD-82).
N321AA is Assigned. It is a 1986 BOEING 767-223.
N521AA is Assigned. It is a STEWART MACO FALCON-XP single engine,
with an Undeliverable Triennial.
N630AA is Assigned. It is a 1990 BOEING 757-223.

Now, the good news.
According to these results from the BTS database,
a Boeing 757 and a Boeing 767
DID actually take off from Logan International on the morning of September 11, 2001.
HOWEVER,
there is NO Flight 11.
There does NOT appear to have been ANY American Airlines plane that was headed to Los Angeles or San Francisco that ACTUALLY took off from Logan International (BOS) on September 11, 2001.
Oh my.
The Boeing 757 is N630AA which was heading to Dallas Fort Worth Int.
The Boeing 767 is N321AA which was heading to Orlando International.

And now for the American Airlines junk numbers.
We shall apply the formulae given to us by LoneStar.
N3BMAA is a Boeing 737.
N3BLAA is a Boeing 737.
N078AA is an Airbus.
N2CFAA is a Boeing 727.
N3BBAA is a Boeing 737.
N061AA is an Airbus.
N3CLAA is a Boeing 737.
N2CBAA is a Boeing 727.
N5EPAA is a Boeing 757.
N3BRAA is a Boeing 737.

I don't know about the rest of you,
but the only one here that tickles my fancy is
the Boeing 757 traveling under the alias N5EPAA.
Since 5EP is the AA fleet number,
and we need to translate that into data we can process,
off we go to the Commercial Jet Aircraft Census by Bill Harms.

MSN 29592
L/N 853
A/C MODEL B757-223
ENG. MODEL RB211-535E4B
DEL. DATE 03/03/99
LAST KNOWN OPERATOR (OWNER) AMERICAN AIRLINES
REG. NO. N182AN
F/N 5EP BJ-FH
http://bird5.bird.ch/bharms/boeing/b757_t_0.htm

The FAA N-number database says:
N182AN is Assigned. It is a 1999 BOEING 757-223, serial number29592.
It checks out perfectly.
Now,
where was that thing going
on the morning of September 11, 2001?
The Luis Munoz Marin International Airport (SJU)
in San Juan, Puerto Rico,
is where that thing was going
at 8:09AM on the morning of September 11, 2001.
Aieee, Tonyo Bicicleta strikes again!

We have been told that the hijackers left Logan at 8:10AM aboard either a Boeing 757 or a Boeing 767.
According to these particular results from the BTS,
we have three Boeings fitting that description
that actually departed from Logan International.
AA, 09/11/2001, 1547, N321AA, MCO, 7:26 Orlando International
AA, 09/11/2001, 1971, N5EPAA, SJU, 8:09 Luis Munoz Marin Int.
AA, 09/11/2001, 1857, N630AA, DFW, 8:14 Dallas Fort Worth Int.

And so, woody b,
LoneStar,
awfully sorry to put a crimp in your sails,
but seeing as how the plane known as Flight 11 or N334AA does not appear to have actually ever taken off from Logan on September 11,
it doesn't appear to have ever needed the use of ANY gate whatsoever.

I gave a letter to the postman,
He put it his sack.
Bright and early next morning,
He brought my letter back.
She wrote upon it:
Return to sender, address unknown.
No such number, no such zone.
-- Elvis Presley
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Dulce, we've already answered this
I actually wrote the BT and asked them about the missing American Airlines information (the United flights are listed in the records). They said that American didn't file the information for those planes, and at that late date, the BT was not going to require them to.

Your constant amazement that a bureaucracy acts like a bureaucracy astounds me.
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Abe Linkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Why not? Bureaucratic snafu? Right.
n/t
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Answered?
Not to my satisfaction.

I don't even have your word on that Grimm tale,
and I haven't forgotten what happened
the last time one of y'all gave me his "word of honor."

Say, where is that vincent_vega anyway?
Getting his rocks off in Abu Graib?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Would anything ever be answered to your satisfaction, Dulce?
Just wondering.
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LoneStar Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Told by who?
"We have been told that the hijackers left Logan at 8:10AM aboard either a Boeing 757 or a Boeing 767."

I think this is yet another example of the media getting Flight 11 mixed up with Flight 77.
Flight 77 out of Dulles (not Boston) WAS normally scheduled to be operated by a 757. And if you will remember, Flight 77's normally scheduled departure time was 8:10.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Since all the planes used
for mischief on September 11,
are alleged to be either 757s or 767s,
it makes sense to pay some attention
to the movements of that particular type of plane
around that particular time.

Although,
seeing as how just about everything we have been told so far has turned out to be a pack of lies,
it is very difficult to tell what actually happened.
The OFFICIAL STORY
has morphed so any times that
these headlines and news flashes
will actually appear strange.........

The Pentagon is being evacuated in expectation of a terrorist attack.
It is believed a fire has broken out in the building.
The White House has also been evacuated.
It is believed six people have died in the two crashes at the World Trade Centre and that the number will rise.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story232...

There are reports that a helicopter has crashed into the Pentagon.
An eyewitness said that they saw the helicopter circle the building and after it disappeared behind it, an explosion occured.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story232...

Third explosion at World Trade Centre
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story233...

There are reports that a part of the second tower has collapsed after the new explosion.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story233...
Paul Begala, a Democratic consultant, said he witnessed an explosion near
the Pentagon.
"It was a huge fireball, a huge, orange fireball," Begala said in an
interview on his cell phone.
He said another witness told him a helicopter exploded. AP reporter Dave
Winslow also saw the crash. He said, "I saw the tail of a large airliner.
.... It plowed right into the Pentagon."
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story233...

Second tower collapses
Portions of both towers have now collapsed at the World Trade Centre in New York.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story233...

Car bomb explodes at State Department

There are unconfirmed reports that a 747 has come down in Pennsylvania.

Parts of the Pentagon have collapsed after a plane crashed into it.

There are reports that a car bomb has exploded outside the US State Department in Washington.
This is the fifth explosion in an hour and a half in a spate of major terrorist attacks on the United States.

A second aircraft has crashed into the Pentagon building.
It is not known whether this plane was that which was hijacked from Boston airport a short time ago, the fourth such plane to be used in this major attack on the US.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story233...

Another hijacked aircraft is on its way to Washington.

Part of the Pentagon building outside Washington has collapsed.
It had been hit by two planes apparently hijacked by terrorists in Boston earlier today.
It is understood the building is evacuated.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story233...

It is reported that the second plane that hit the World Trade Centre earlier today had taken off at Newark.
The first had been hijacked at Boston although it had been chartered for Los Angeles.
Newark airport, New Jersey, is just a few miles from lower Manhattan where the towers were situated.
A plane at full-speed would have reached the towers less than two minutes after take-off.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story233...

Last but not least,
my own personal favorite headline for that day:
PENTAGON SECURITY TO BE IMPROVED
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story233...

LoneStar,
you are correct about the media reporting.
These are excerpts from one of the very first timelines.
11:59 a.m.:
United Airlines confirms that Flight 175, from Boston to Los Angeles, has crashed with 56 passengers and nine crew members aboard. Emergency personnel at the scene say there are no survivors.
(wHERE?)

12:15 p.m:
San Francisco International Airport is evacuated and shut down. The airport was the destination of American Airlines Flight 77, which was one of the aircraft to strike the World Trade Center.
(IS THAT WHAT BARBY THE HARPY TOLD TED?)
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/story233...

Yet and still,
the FBI knew beyond all shadow of doubt,
that Osama bin Laden
-- or was it Saddam Hussein? no matter --
was to blame.
Bombs away!!!

Explosions have gone off in the Afghanistan city of Kabul.....

It has been reported that the explosions in Kabul, Afghanistan, were not part of an United States retaliation.
http://website.lineone.net/~jon.simmons/roy/010929ij.ht...
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=5...

With fire and sword the country round
Was wasted far and wide,
And many a childing mother then,
And new-born baby, died;
But things like that, you know, must be
At every famous victory.

They say it was a shocking sight
After the field was won;
For many thousand bodies here
Lay rotting in the sun;
But things like that, you know, must be
After a famous victory.
http://holyjoe.org/poetry/southey.htm

CBS Reporter Lesley Stahl (speaking of post-war sanctions against Iraq):
"We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And - and you know, is the price worth it?"

Madeleine Albright (at that time, US Ambassador to the UN):
"I think this is a very hard choice, but the price - we think the price is worth it."
http://home.comcast.net/~dhamre/docAlb.htm
http://www.rense.com/general17/south.htm

U.S. planes trapped the long convoys by disabling vehicles in the front, and at the rear, and then pounded the resulting traffic jams for hours. "It was like shooting fish in a barrel," said one U.S. pilot. The horror is still there to see.

On the inland highway to Basra is mile after mile of burned, smashed, shattered vehicles of every description - tanks, armored cars, trucks, autos, fire trucks, according to the March 18, 1991, Time magazine. On the sixty miles of coastal highway, Iraqi military units sit in gruesome repose, scorched skeletons of vehicles and men alike, black and awful under the sun, says the Los Angeles Times of March 11, 1991. While 450 people survived the inland road bombing to surrender, this was not the case with the 60 miles of the coastal road. There for 60 miles every vehicle was strafed or bombed, every windshield is shattered, every tank is burned, every truck is riddled with shell fragments. No survivors are known or likely. The cabs of trucks were bombed so much that they were pushed into the ground, and it's impossible to see if they contain drivers or not. Windshields were melted away, and huge tanks were reduced to shrapnel.
http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-death.htm
http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm


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LoneStar Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Clarification re: Fleet Numbers vs. N Numbers
Edited on Tue Jun-22-04 07:40 PM by LoneStar
Allow me to clarify a bit about American Airlines internal fleet numbers vs. "N" numbers.

It appears that in most cases American Airlines fleet numbers are the first three numbers or letters after the "N." In some cases the fleet number is a number followed by two letters. EX: 5EP or 4TN or 3CW. In these cases (where the last two positions are alpha characters), the "5" designates a 757, the "3" designates a 737 and the "4" designates an MD-80 or variant (MD-82, MD-83,etc.) As for the ones that start with a "2" followed by two letters, I have no idea what aircraft they are. I am unable to locate these particular aircraft in Bill Harm's database.

In other cases, the fleet number is just three numbers (no letters) and when that's the case, the first number doesn't really tell you anything.

So DulceDecorum, when you write"

"N636AA is Assigned. It is a 1986 ALLEVA ANTHONY DRAGONFLY single engine,"

and

"N521AA is Assigned. It is a STEWART MACO FALCON-XP single engine, with an Undeliverable Triennial," that is indeed true as far as the FAA database goes, but that's not the aircraft that's referred to on the bts report.

The aircraft referred as N636AA on the bts report has an official FAA registration number of N636AM and is a Boeing 757-223. It's American Airlines Fleet Number is 636.

The aircraft referred as N521AA on the bts report has a official FAA registration number of N7521A and is an MD-82. It's American Airlines Fleet Number is 521.

I will say this much. American Airlines doesn't seem to have a set standard in how they report the tail numbers on these bts reports, and as a result, it is often difficult to track down some of these aircraft.

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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Well that is even MORE interesting
Edited on Tue Jun-22-04 11:24 PM by DulceDecorum
LoneStar!!!
Then that means that pretty much
EVERYTHING that American Airlines says is bogus.

I must admit that I have been assuming
that if and when the N-number on an American Airlines planes
made its way past the FAa database,
and emerged with recognizable data,
then that plane was a viable candidate for the AA flight in question.

I am going to have revise a whole lot of stuff.
But thanks.
I appreciate your input.
And I am shocked -- again -- at the duplicity of American Airlines.

So,
what do you know about United Airlines
and their planes?

(Incidentally,
for whatever it is worth,
I ran one of those 2 numbers,
2AN to be specific,
and I pulled up a Boeing 777.)
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LoneStar Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Other airlines tail numbers
Edited on Wed Jun-23-04 03:32 AM by LoneStar
United appears to use the FAA issued N number in their reports to the bts.

Southwest drops the two letter suffix at the end. Example - N668WN was the 737 that operated as Southwest Flight 1455 from Las Vegas to Burbank on March 5, 2000. That was the plane that landed too far down the runway, crashed through the airport fence, crossed Hollywood Way and came to a stop at the Chevron Station.

On the bts report, the aircraft is simply listed as N668. So American isn't the only one who doesn't necessarily use the FAA issued N numbers in their reports to the Bureau of Transportation. I e-mailed bts and asked why there wasn't a set standard regarding the way the airlines report their tail numbers. If I get a reply I'll post it.

"(Incidentally, for whatever it is worth, I ran one of those 2 numbers,
2AN to be specific, and I pulled up a Boeing 777.")

No, what you actually pulled up was the last three characters of a VALID (FAA issued) N number (N752AN).

AMERICAN AIRLINES N752AN 7BL BK-HM 30261 341 B777-223(ER) TRENT892-17 05/25/01.

Note that the fleet number (just to the right of the N number) is "7BL."

The point I was trying to make is that when the tail number on the bts looks wrong (ie has letters where there should be numbers -- like N5EPAA -- OR if what appears to be a normal looking N Number shows up as an aircraft that you know isn't correct -- like N521AA) then you know American Airlines has used the fleet number.

And remember -- the FLEET number is the three characters immediately following the "N" on the bts report. When I see a tail number like N2CBAA on the bts report, I know that it is not a valid FAA issued N number because it does not meet the criteria as you described, so I know that the fleet number is "2CB" and that's what I have to use to try and find the "real" N number of the aircraft.

When the fleet number begins with 5 (followed by two letters) it's a 757. When the fleet number begins with 4 (followed by two letters) it's an MD-80 or variant and a 3 (followed by two letters) is designated for 737'. When the fleet number begins with a 2 followed by two letters - I don't know what type of aircraft they are. I can't find them anywhere. If you can find out what aircraft N2CBAA (fleet number 2CB) is or N2CFAA (fleet number 2CF) is, let me know.

The "2AN" example you gave was not a fleet number (It wasn't the three characters immediately following the "N". It was just the last three characters of a valid FAA issued N number.

Hope that all made some sense.

Edited to add: Never mind about the 2's. I figured out what type of aircraft they are based on something Dulce wrote in another post. N2ANAA is a Fokker. No wonder I couldn't find any of these aircraft on Bill Harms' website. He only lists Airbus, Boeing and McDonnell Douglas.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-04 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. American Airlines Fleet Facts
American Airlines
Boeing 777 - 45
Airbus 300-605R: - 34
Boeing 767-323ER: - 58
Boeing 767-223ER: - 15
Boeing 757-223: - 140
Boeing 737-800: - 77
MD -80: - 334
Fokker 100: - 23
Total 726

American Eagle
Saab 340: - 28
ATR 42: - 9
Super ATR: - 35
Embraer 145: - 49
Embraer 140: - 55
Embraer 135: - 37
CRJ 700: - 17
Total 230

Much more info at:
http://www.amrcorp.com/facts/fleet.htm
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