Post your Barbara Olson comments Here

[DulceDecorum]

Barbara Olson kept her cool. In the hysteria and terror of hijackers herding passengers to the rear of the plane, she retrieved her cell phone and called her husband, Ted, the solicitor general of the United States. She informed him that he had better call the FBI — the plane had been hijacked. According to reports, Barbara was still on the phone with Ted when her plane plunged in a fiery explosion directly into the Pentagon.
<snip>
We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war.
http://www.nationalreview.com/coulter/coulter091301.shtml

All of us at Regnery Publishing are deeply saddened by the loss of our author and friend. Our thoughts and prayers are with her husband, Solicitor General Ted Olson, and the thousands of other relatives and friends who have lost their loved ones in the terrorist attacks on our country.
http://www.regnery.com/authors/bio_barbaraolson.html

Nov. 19, 2001 | It's tough reading a new book by a recently deceased author, particularly one, like Barbara Olson, who has quite understandably become a tragic hero in the eyes of many. Olson was among the passengers of American Airlines Flight 77, which was hijacked and flown into the Pentagon on Sept. 11. Before the crash, she managed to call her husband, Solicitor General Ted Olson, twice on her cellphone, relaying bits of information about the hijacking -- it was from Olson that the world first learned about the use of "box cutters" as a weapon -- and asking his advice, he later recalled on "Larry King Live," about "what she should tell the pilot."

It's an unimaginable situation. And simply because of the way she kept her wits about her, Olson deserves to be honored for her ability to tough it out the best she could, making virtually the only record we have of what happened on that particular doomed ride.
http://archive.salon.com/books/review/2001/11/19/olson/print.html

*************************
Eyewitness at the Pentagon
Alfred S. Regnery
The Week of September 17, 2001

When I first moved to Washington from the Midwest, I used to joke that the commute into town from the Virginia suburbs got my blood circulating for the day.

Shirley Highway, or I-395, by the numbers, is Northern Virginia’s main street into Washington, and each day deposits tens of thousands of commuters into the capital. Wending its way through Springfield, Annandale, Alexandria and Arlington, it divides at the Pentagon and empties into the Potomac River bridges. Traffic is usually awful, drivers are aggressive and rude, and if a commuter’s blood isn’t boiling by the end of the ride, it is certainly moving.

But no trip along that highway, over more than 20 years, prepared me for what I saw on September 11.

As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view, listening on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center disaster in New York, a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a couple of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead.

Although airplanes regularly fly over the Pentagon on their way to Reagan National Airport, just a mile or two south, this plane was too low and going too fast. As I watched it disappear behind bridges and concrete barriers I knew it was about to crash.

At almost the same moment the radio announcer mentioned the likelihood that the World Trade Center had been hit by terrorists, although it was not yet clear whether the planes that hit it were small or large, private or commercial, or what any of the circumstances were. My first thoughts were that this, too, must be the act of a terrorist.

Seconds before the Pentagon came into view a huge black cloud of smoke rose above the road ahead. I came around the bend and there was the Pentagon billowing smoke, flames and debris, blackened on one side and with a gaping hole where the airplane had hit it.

I pulled onto the shoulder and got out of my car, as did many others, and we were among the first to see what would soon be seen by millions of people around the world. My first reaction, a correct one, as it turned out, was that a beautiful, peaceful September morning had suddenly gone horribly awry, and that we were at war.

I have passed the Pentagon twice each day for over 20 years. I have friends who work there and have been in the building countless times. And I see airplanes flying over it, landing at Reagan National, every day, and have probably flown over it myself a hundred times.

There are symbols that are indelibly planted in our minds, things that we take for granted, that reassure us that our world is safe and secure and that there is a consistency in our lives. And of course the Pentagon is the great symbol of American military might, the symbol of peace through strength, the symbol of the institution that helped to topple the Soviet Union, to defeat the enemy in World War II, and that keeps America free.

And the airplanes landing at Reagan National airport always symbolized the order that can be brought to the world by human intuition and by technology. In fact, I have often stopped in the park just north of Reagan National to watch in amazement as plane after plane descends and lands just where it is supposed to. Each plane, traveling at the same speed as the last, on the same path, landing on the same runway as the last got out of the way demonstrated, to me, the genius of human ability, of things working properly.

And suddenly, on a beautiful, cloudless, bright September morning, all of that was thrown out of kilter. One of those high-tech airplanes, suddenly not where it was supposed to be, and directed by a madman, breached the symbol of American strength.

Little did I know, of course, that one of the people in the airplane was our author and my friend Barbara Olson, whose new book was supposed to go to press this week. Little did I imagine how the lives of hundreds, if not thousands of people would be shattered in that split second. And little did I know that the order, the consistency, which we take for granted everyday was suddenly order and consistency no more
NO LONGER AVAILABLE ONLINE
********************

Aaaaww.
More eyewitness accounts at:
http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/identification.html

Although the American Spectator is published by a tax-exempt foundation that cannot use its funds for partisan purposes, Scaife's millions were used by the magazine in a covert effort to destroy Clinton and other Democrats. After the project was exposed in 1998 by Salon and other news organizations, a special counsel was appointed by Starr and the Justice Department to determine whether any money was used to illicitly influence Hale's testimony.
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/02/06/olson/print.html

Within moments on Sept. 11, the Supreme Court community, which likes to think it stands apart from the rest of Washington, D.C., was swept inexorably into the awful vortex of the nation's day of terror.

THE INSTITUTION SHUT DOWN, with Court police scrambling to the rooftop armed with shotguns to face off against threats unknown. The Judicial Conference meeting was ended abruptly, and a death penalty lawyer in Texas was left frantically calling the clerk's office to no avail. THE GOVERNOR OF TEAXAS FINALLY STAYED THE EXECUTION BECAUSE OF THE HIGH COURT'S INAVAILABILITY.
<snip>
Olson reported the conversation to the Justice Department's command center. After the second call ended, Olson and Voss turned on a television set in his office, unsure what else could be done.
When news came of a plane crashing into the Pentagon, Olson turned to Voss and said, "That's Barbara's plane." Voss adds, "Then he said something I will not repeat." Soon after, Olson headed home to Great Falls, Va.
Meanwhile, the Justice Department building was being evacuated, leaving many of Olson's colleagues in the tight-knit solicitor general's office initially unaware that their boss had been struck by tragedy.
http://www.nylawyer.com/news/01/09/091701i.html

Department of Justice telephone
Description: Ted Olson, U.S. solicitor general, received two calls on this office telephone from his wife, Barbara Olson, as her hijacked airplane headed toward the Pentagon.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp?ID=1

[MoonAndSun]

1. I have only one word for Barbara Olson

karma

[liberalnurse]

2. I always called her "cupcake."

Ted's little sweetie......a little tart......

[roughsatori]

3. She symbolized much of what has gone awry in the USA

[Devil Dog Dem]

4. I agree: Karma

she reaped what she sowed: hatred and intollerance.

[Bolo Boffin]

7. Karma is a good fit here.

She died at the hands of people who were spurred on by the kind of hatred that was her stock and trade. Ted used her death to lob her final hand grenade of a book at the Clintons. And Ann Coulter seems bound and determined to take up her slack - how low can that political slattern go?

One more reason to curse the Al Qaeda terrorists that did this - they unwittingly turned Barbara Olson into a martyr for the right.

[Jim Sagle]

5. Barbara Olson wuzn't nuthin' but shit when she was alive

and she ain't nuthin' but shit now that she's dead.

[DulceDecorum]

8. Dear John......

Barbara Olson, 46, was locked in the toilet when the passengers and crew were ordered to the back of the airliner. A spokesman for Mr Olson said: "She called and said she was locked in the toilet and the plane had been hijacked.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/12/wwife12.xml

More than half an hour was allowed to elapse before a third aircraft was guided into the Pentagon, killing from 100 to 800 people. Flight 77 had left Washington's Dulles Airport at 8.10am and was nearly an hour into its journey towards San Francisco when it turned around and headed back towards the US capital.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/13/whij13.xml

Getting back to our problem: We KNOW it was flight 77 because Barbara Olsen called her husband, the US Solicitor General, to tell him they were being hijacked! But, did she really call him and if so, when?
My research lead me to a site that examines this issue in some depth. What stood out like a sore thumb was the following remark:

"Fox News reports that, extraordinarily, Deputy Attorney General Larry Thompson then said Barbara Olson's call, made "in the midst of terrible danger and turmoil swirling around her," was a "clarion call that awakened our nation's leaders to the true nature of the events of Sept. 11."

What seems to be true is that the story about Barbara Olsen is what "activated the American psyche, generated mass loathing, and enabled media manipulation of the global population."
It was the story about Barbara Olsen that clarified for us that our "enemies" were Arab Hijackers, and that they were sent by the evil Osama Bin Laden.
Without the story about Barbara Olsen, there would be NO “War on Terror” in Afghanistan and occupied Palestine.
Clearly, this issue and the issue of what REALLY happened to Flight 77 is the crux of the matter.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/hidden.htm

A little over two months after his wife was killed on September 11, Ted Olson, the Solicitor General of the United States, received a photograph from the US Air Force. It showed a laser-guided missile before it was launched from a strike aircraft against a Taliban target in Afghanistan. The name Barbara Olson had been chalked on the side of the weapon in her memory.
"It looked like a 500lb bomb," says Ted Olson, his grief-racked face creasing into a smile for the first time in nearly an hour. "She would have liked that. Barbara was a warrior, so she would have wanted to fight back. And she would have applauded the people who did go and fight back."
<snip>
"She had had trouble getting through, because she wasn't using her cellphone, she was using the phone in the passengers' seats," says Olson. "I guess she didn't have her purse, because she was calling collect, and she was trying to get through to the Department of Justice, which is never very easy."
He was able to tell her about the World Trade Centre attacks before the line went dead, then he called his departmental command centre to let them know another plane had been hijacked. The phone rang again and it was Barbara.
<snip>
He remained in the office for several hours, telephoning friends and family to let them know Barbara was dead. "There was no point in trying to go home," he says. "The streets were jammed with people trying to move, and no one was moving. So I stayed here until about two o'clock."
Soon, Barbara Olson became the first victim of the attacks to be named on television. She was also the most famous person to die that day.
That afternoon, friends began to gather at the Olsons' house. Ken Starr, the independent counsel who nearly removed president Bill Clinton from office, manned the telephone. Among those who rang to offer their condolences were the two busiest men in America - Mr Bush, who called from Air Force One, and Mayor Rudolph Giuliani of New York.
<snip>
By killing Barbara Olson, the terrorists incurred the wrath of America, from the White House to the scores of thousands of ordinary people who turned her posthumously published The Final Days, about the controversial end of the Clinton presidency, into a best-seller.
During a recent visit to Florida, when Mr Bush was asked by schoolchildren in Orlando how he had felt on September 11, he told them: "I knew that when I got all of the facts that we were under attack, there would be hell to pay for attacking America." His use of the title of Barbara Olson's first book was no accident.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2002/telegraph030502.html

O'Beirne, tall and elegant, is explaining that the map shows how Bush would have won with a landslide if men were the only voters. If it hadn't been for their weak sisters, she says, there would have been no showdown in Florida and no argument about the new president's legitimacy.
"Take back the vote - we've used it unwisely. We'd like to give it back to our husbands," laughs O'Beirne, who is married to a US army officer.
Olson, in turn, proposes a Republican conspiracy to keep American women at home during the next election: simply run a 24-hour television retrospective of the lives of Diana, Princess of Wales and John F. Kennedy Jnr.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b5ee8167c1a.htm

The Pentagon, the White House, the State Department, the Justice Department, the Capitol, the CIA and all other government buildings in Washington evacuated. President Bush cancelled an appearance in Florida to return to Washington, calling the crashes "apparent terrorist attacks" and "a national tragedy."
In the first ever national ground stop of aircraft, all flights nationwide have been stopped at their departure airports. All international flights were diverted to Canada. Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, said in reaction to the news of the terror attacks that "we want to tell the American children that Afghanistan feels your pain and we hope that the courts find justice."
http://pao.hood.army.mil/21CAV/articles/2001-articles/cnn_news_9-11-01.htm

[preciousdove]

6. Conspiracy theorists, have they ever said where she is now?

Is she living on a tropical island? In seclusion on a military base? Did they "euthanize" the other passengers? It would sure be hard to hold that many people for this long without anyone finding out.

Just wonderin...:tinfoilhat:

[RH]

15. where she is now?

The remains of Barbara Olsen were positively identified by the Armed Forces Institute of patholgy.

Just how many ad hominems will it take the gainsayers to deny that?

:puffpiece:

No doubt that their obsession will survive for years hence but the chances of them mounting a case under the usual terms of jurisprudence would seem to be near to zero.

:nuke:

[Abe Linkman]

9. The most critical falsity in all of the 9/11 Official Story

As false as claims that Oswald acted alone. No evidence, no plausible scenario, no nothing. Unverifiable claims by Ted Olson are all they've offered. Because there is no evidence. And, the Administration is afraid to even offer any cooked-up evidence. There is no legitimate reason for the Administration to keep the lid absolutely air-tight on this one if they had any proof whatsoever.

[Bolo Boffin]

10. The most pathological denial in all the 9/11 doubters' arsenal

As egregious an error as claims that Oswald wasn't a lone gunman. No evidence, no plausible scenario, no nothing. Unverified gut instincts are all they've offered. Because they have no evidence. And, the doubters are afraid to even look at the evidence that's out there. There is no legitimate reason for anyone to doubt the account of Ted Olson whatsoever.

[JackRiddler]

12. hmmm...

From the above articles:

Early on, in Telegraph:

"Barbara Olson, 46, was locked in the toilet when the passengers and crew were ordered to the back of the airliner. A spokesman for Mr Olson said: "She called and said she was locked in the toilet and the plane had been hijacked."

Months later, in Telegraph:

"She had had trouble getting through, because she wasn't using her cellphone, she was using the phone in the passengers' seats," says Olson. "I guess she didn't have her purse, because she was calling collect, and she was trying to get through to the Department of Justice, which is never very easy."

[QuietStorm]

13. oops

:hi:

[Bolo Boffin]

14. Witnesses that verify Olson's story

It was just as the World Trade Center attacks were unfolding that someone in the solicitor general's office took a phone call from Barbara Olson. Ted Olson's longtime assistant, Helen Voss, raced into the SG's office to tell him that Barbara was on the line, sounding panicked. He picked up the phone and exclaimed, "What, you've been hijacked?" She was calling on her cell phone from aboard the jet, which had just left Dulles Airport. Voss says, "My heart sank." The call ended abruptly, but then Barbara called again, reportedly asking her husband, "What should I tell the pilot?" It was a comment that friends have taken as a sign that she was characteristically trying to find a solution to the crisis. The pilot, along with passengers, had apparently been herded into the back of the plane.

Olson reported the conversation to the Justice Department's command center. After the second call ended, Olson and Voss turned on a television set in his office, unsure what else could be done.

When news came of a plane crashing into the Pentagon, Olson turned to Voss and said, "That's Barbara's plane." Voss adds, "Then he said something I will not repeat." Soon after, Olson headed home to Great Falls, Va.

Did you get it? At least two people talked to Barbara, the person who answered the first phone call, and Ted. Helen Voss was with Ted the entire time Barbara talked to him. At least three people say that they heard Barbara Olson call Ted.

Do you have any videotapes of Ted Olson's office or provable knowledge of his actual whereabouts that would deny this? Hmmmm?

[Abe Linkman]

16. The Mother Of ALL 9/11 Lies.

"There is no legitimate reason for anyone to doubt the account of Ted Olson whatsoever."

There is no legitimate reason whatsoever for anyone to accept Ted Olson's fairy tale. Without the false claims that his wife called him from FL 77 moments before going to Jesus, the whole house of 9/11 cards falls down. That is why "they" (paid and unpaid disinformation agents, as well as those who have been truly duped) must do everything and anything necessary to protect the monsterous BIG lies about Mrs. Olson and Ted.

[Bolo Boffin]

20. Breathe, Abe, breathe.

Even if Ted Olson is proven to be a liar in this matter, it does nothing to discredit any other evidence in the 9/11 Official Story. It makes him out to be more ghoulish than I'd suspected before, but that's it.

So this is your litmus test, eh? This is what makes or breaks the definition of "THEY"?

As I said somewhere on this thread, there are witnesses to the phone call as it was happening. Barbara Olson boarded Flight 77. Someone else answered her call from the plane, and Helen Voss (a second witness) watched Ted have both conversations.

I find it sickening that Barbara has become an icon of the right in this way, but denying the basic facts of her death puts you in the running with Ted Olson as Top Ghoul of 9/11.

[Abe Linkman]

21. Speak for yourself (and your handlers)

Barbara Olson went to Jesus on 9/11. You know that as well as I do.

You also know (it's your job to know) that the whole 9/11 Official Story ball of wax comes undone without the lies about Ted and Barbara. Denying the truth of about that puts you in the running with other official and unofficial conspiracy fact deniers.

[QuietStorm]

24. there is a truth I am missing here.

did she go to jesus on FL 77 or I guess I am just going to have to find that rundown. The mother of 9/11 lies... is that it?

[Abe Linkman]

26. She only STARTED her journey to Jesus on FL 77

Most likely, her journey ended in a field in Pennsylvania, along with her fellow FL 77 passengers and the passengers from the three other famous 9/11 flights.

[QuietStorm]

37. oh

so you feel FL 77 IS the plane that crashed in PA. AND that would leave that BOEING in DC up for grabs as perhaps just an empty plane. rather than FL 77. And the BARABAR IN THE ENSOR interview just an "unidentified woman" as is suggested by Ensor.

Well first we have to see if we can plot the path of THE BOEING coming from north to south by the eyewits. I am not sure this is going to work the way I see it. Nor do I know if you follow my thinking on those TWO PLANES. WHAT TWO PLANES

1-THE BOEING (if there was one and it is not the 4 prop mistaken for BOEING)

2-4 PROP (which i am thinking is the killer plan), with

3- something that shot the missile.

Or it can mix and match. I don't know till I have the time to separate out the eyewits by location and see what their description is.

Basically, what I am trying to do is satisfy that sentence in the AAAR that states there was a crash on runway 1-19. My feeling is they just could have left that line out. but they didn't. I feel it is BECAUSE what people saw as THE BOEING was a boeing (not necessary FL 77)... Just to confuse the issue in the minds of people... THE TOWER AT RRNA WAS WAITING FOR A MISSING PLANE.

You feel that at one point FL77 passengers were transfered off FL 77 onto the what is that 93 (the plane that crashed in PA).

I don't know. I just want to account for THE BOEING FLYING from north to southwest. Is there something on the internet named "the mother of all 9/11 lies"? I haven't checked yet.

[QuietStorm]

23. which lie is that

I remember coming across something with that title to do with Ted Olson, but I was focusing in on other areas AND I did not really get into the Barbara Olsen portion of this. That is why it never crossed my mind that BARBARA in Ensor's transcript might be THE BARBARA OLSEN.

IS THERE SOMETHING ENTILED, the mother of all 9/11 lies? I have a vague recollection of that. I will google. At some point. You said something about her being seen on a cell phone somewhere is that citable? If so get it. Please! If not well. never mind.

[Bolo Boffin]

32. Lord.

The Mother of All 9/11 Lies is the shorthand used to describe the Barbara Olson calls to Ted on 9/11 by Joe Vialls, Investigator.

http://www.geocities.com/subliminalsuggestion/olson.html

One more link to this silly piece of tripe isn't going to hurt. Barbara Olson's phone calls, while important, aren't the linchpin they're claimed to be by Vialls.

[QuietStorm]

11. I know who you are now

the disinformation policeman that doesn't take kindly to "BULL no"?

yep!!

[noonwitch]

17. I never heard of her until 9-11.

I knew who her husband was due to the 2000 election. My grandpa reads her books now, but didn't then. Grandpa's a freeper-type. When I saw one of her books at his house, he said "You wouldn't believe the stuff that's in there". I said "You're right, I wouldn't and you shouldn't".

[plaguepuppy]

27. Must we mourn for neo-con witches?

Or do we need neo-conspiracy theories?

Is she (or rather he) really the only source for the boxcutter story?

It's always seemed implausible to me that a few guys with boxcutters could control that many people, a weird and ineffective weapon to choose. Why not a long knife made of ceramic or some other material that won't show on x-ray, that would actually be easier to conceal?

Best guess - hubby had her done in as part of the grand game of 3-card monte that was 9-11, and made up the stupid phone calls to paint in the proper villains. Those uptight Rethugs are all closet skirt chasers, just look at Gingrich, and I'm sure he's "gotten over it" by now.

[Abe Linkman]

28. How about the word "boxcutters" ?

Is that a word that Barbara Olson is likely to have used...especially in that kind of frantic situation? I don't think so. Possible; but I doubt it. YES, disinfo choir; that is my opinion. I do not claim to have any evidence to back that up.

[RH]

35. "boxcutters" ?"

So what instead would she be expected to have referred to?

[QuietStorm]

44. what a stupid weapon

for hijackers wouldn't you say?

[Bolo Boffin]

50. Use your imagination...

Boxcutters can cut jugular veins and carotid arteries as easy as you please.

I'd say the boxcutter might be a pretty potent weapon for hijackers.

[QuietStorm]

51. they were quite a bit out numbered by the passenger list

use your imagination. If that plane turned round from the ohio kentucky border as indicated by those dashed lines that would have been 2 or so hours for those passengers to mutiny. somebody HAD to have noticed THAT PLANE turned clearly around, but mayhem doesn't peak till the last 15 minutes or so. come on. what? they held their BOXCUTTERS in the air and 64 passengers just sat complacently by for two hours on the unscheduled turn around back to the east coast only appearing paniced within the descending leg of the trip? Before any boxcutters would have gotten to any jugulars a struggle would have had to ensue. The hijackers were significantly outnumbered they did not hold a bomb, not an ozi, but a BOXCUTTER!!

[Bolo Boffin]

52. 2 hours or so from Ohio-Kentucky? From takeoff to crash was 78 minutes!

Try again.

[QuietStorm]

53. so what

same argument applies.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Old and In the Way]

101. Actually, the name is utility knife.

Those that have used them know that...maybe bureaucrat types call them box-cutters. I always thought that the term boxcutters was rather obtuse....why not be clear with their proper name?

I think Olsen's death was secondary to the meme that "it was Arab's with boxcutters" that helped to define the enemy. Given the unethical nature of Ted Olsen in the Clinton Inquisition and his role in thwarting the popular will of the people, I have no problem with believing that his story about talking to his wife was a total fabrication to make this administration's "story" about Arab Hi-jackers to either cover for the real story or deflect the away from the real perps.

Sorry, but I can't buy that 19 ME guys who can't fly planes manage to breach flight security on 4 seperate commercial aircraft within 1 hour of each other. I can't buy our AF was unable to stop (hell, they weren't even chasing it) 77 from hitting the Pentagon 55+ minutes after the 2nd plane hit the WTC. Based on these 2 rather incomprehensible facts, the entire government story on what happened 9/11 is totally suspect.

Ted Olson's story is fabricated to support his political buddies. He lost his wife on 9/11, but that doesn't mean I have to believe this liar told me the truth on 9/11.

"Boxcutters" as weapons were an odd choice. Before 9/11, knives under 4" long were permitted....so why would terrorists choose a utility knife with an exposed blade of about an inch? Not a very effective choice of weapon, if you ask me.

[number6]

112. I Agree......!!!

"Based on these 2 rather incomprehensible facts, the entire government story on what happened 9/11 is totally suspect."

[QuietStorm]

18. ENSOR'S CNN TRANSCRIPT W/ A BARBARA is here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=1244&mesg_id=1627&page=

[Bolo Boffin]

19. And this Barbara is relevant to Barbara Olson....How?

:shrug:

[QuietStorm]

22. use your imagination

those who get a hit on it will provide something to firm it up or not. I am working on hunches. You?

[Bolo Boffin]

31. Thank you for admitting that you are working off of hunches...

...imagination, and getting a "hit" on it. If you need some synthetic urine, talk to Abe Linkman.

I prefer working from actual evidence, thanks just the same.

You do understand that Barbara Olson worked for CNN? That her voice would instantly be recognized by the sound engineers, the producer, the director, the on-air talent, the camera personel...even the craft services people would have looked up from rearranging doughnuts and said, "Hey, that Barbara talking about the Pentagon crash, isn't that Barbara Olson who works here at CNN?"

?????????

Do over.

[QuietStorm]

38. well not only imagination

I have invested in time in many different areas. But I don't know every single little thing so hunches come into play. my biggest hunch has little to do with barbara olsen. Not knowing I thought the interview odd.

Do over? Well I am not sure what you mean exactly. But I didn't have hunches regarding BO I hadn't spent much time on that.

BTW - I don't watch CNN. I don't watch FOXNEWS. Tripe. Just keeps you abreast of the war propaganda. Mostly I get my news from many sources via internet.

[RH]

25. And this Barbara is relevant to Barbara Olson....How?

"Don't you get it?

"Barbara"

Same name!

Proof positive of a sinister conspiracy!

[Abe Linkman]

29. Ted's most basic mistake

Ted Olson made, in my opinion, a huge mistake, by claiming the alleged calls from Barbara were made to the Justice Department. He should have said the calls came to his cell phone. Unless I'm missing something; it seems to me like it would be easier to destroy/hide or explain away the lack of cell phone evidence. Justice Department phone calls are surely taped and logged-in. (especially those to the Solicitor General's office) Besides, I'd think it would be harder to control/destroy the telphone records of a government office. But, who knows, with that crowd of criminals, anything is possible.

[Abe Linkman]

30. Retraction. Request to revise and extend remarks.

Upon reflection, I now realize that Ted did NOT make a mistake in saying the alleged calls came to the Justice Department (rather than to his cell phone).

By claiming the calls came to the Justice Department; the government can refuse to release the records by claiming "National Security." They could, of course, claim "National Security" even if he had claimed the calls came to his cell phone, but it would probably be harder to do. Besides, there is probably some kind of criminal law that would deter anyone from releasing Government records, and that law may not have been updated in time to cover cell phone records.

Either way; one thing is for sure - no evidence has been offered to support his claims, and none will be offered. The only evidence which might support or disprove his claims is controlled by the perps; and they ain't gonna provide no smokin' guns.

[DulceDecorum]

33. With all due respect,

how easy was it to get through to ANYWHERE on a cell phone twenty minutes after the first plane hit the WTC?
Everybody was calling everyone else and traffic was building up mightily. Several articles attest to this.

If Texas, with a chap on death row, COULD NOT GET THROUGH then how come the flying harpy could? Twice?

Cellular phone companies reported sporadic service at the centers of the tragedy in New York and Washington, and heavy calling volume produced jammed circuits on landlines. Internet access to popular news Web sites was intermittently blocked.
http://www.newsday.com/ny-usterr122362127sep12,0,7302799.story

So how did those plane people on Flight 77 and Flight 93 manage to make contact?

(And I am pretending that cell phones work on planes in the first place.)

[RH]

34. With all due respect,

"So how did those plane people on Flight 77 and Flight 93 manage to make contact?"

:eyes: Presumably the same way that anybody else who managed to make contact did make contact, or is the argument supposed to be that nobody at all managed to make contact?

[DulceDecorum]

36. Magic 8 ball?

I am sure that none of them were travelling with their best crystal.

[QuietStorm]

40. You are goofy!

[DulceDecorum]

45. Not at all

Barbara Olson decides NOT to use her cell phone.
She decided NOT to call Ted's cell phone which would have been much easier than getting past the Justice Department switchboard.
She is in the toilet.
She is using a credit card from someone else.
She left her purse in her seat when she was herded to the back of the plane immediately after takeoff which was only a few minuted before the plane crashed.
She is able to remain talking to Ted until impact despite the diving manoevers of the amazing Hani Hanjour who cannot fly worth a damn nor convince instructors to go up in the air with him.
She hangs up before impact.
The hijackers have instructed the passengers to make cell phone calls.
Nobody knows she is making a cell phone call.

And the best part of all, nobody on the plane decides to whack the razor wielding hijackers.
The pilots surrender up the controls as blithely as Madonna gave up her virginity and the passengers all meekly go to the back of the plane.
People in Washington are just NOT that polite. They are rude and pushy and enjoy a fist fight.

And why the hijackers didn't simply flop that bird into the center court is beyond me. The fire engines would NEVER have been able to put out the blaze. But these guys decided to be nice and hit a practically empty Wedge. They made a teensy weensy hole and avoided smacking the ground, the spools, and even the vehicles infront of the impact site. And the fire they caused made sure that it did not actually burn anyone's hair.

This, my friend, is NOT Goofy.
This is the work of Daffy Duck.

[QuietStorm]

46. LOL

and clapping my hands at the computer! ahhhh!

[Abe Linkman]

47. Pole vaulters, yes. But not THAT good.

Maybe they just couldn't resist the lure of the poles. But, klutz that he is/was, Hani missed some. Which only proves that he should have stayed with the original flight plan.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DulceDecorum]

65. You are referring to

Commander Robert Allan Schlegel (Age 38)US Navy
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/raschlegel.htm

GRAY — Robert A. Schlegel's promotion to commander last month earned him the highest rank in a family steeped in Navy tradition.
It also earned him a new office at the Pentagon.
http://www.mainetoday.com/9-11/010915schlegel.shtml

Why don't you save your rage for those who killed him?
Why come after those of us who still entertain hope of seeing him as alive as as one of the men who allegedly hijacked that plane?

What does ANY of this have to do with the Armenian Holocaust?
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a389ce71a3da5.htm
http://www.hairenik.com/armenianweekly/october/media001.html
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Holocaust

Those tombstones have crosses on them.
The majority of the Pentagon victims appear NOT to have been Jewish.
Nor Armenian for that matter.

We are trying to find out what happened to those people and MANY MANY MANY of us saw that hole.
And many of us here have traveled or piloted such aircraft.
It is not suprising to hear that bodies were pulled out of the Pentagon.
What is suprising is the stories we are hearing from those who SURVIVED the Pentbomb.

And I say AGAIN that I have YET to see ONE picture in which a person has burned hair.
There are photos of people being medi-evaced out in helicopters with what appears to be horrible burns all over their heads and arms and torso. Funny how the hair on the head and arms and torso is growing so luxuriantly that one might mistake the entire scene for a commerical where the victims are not only clients, but are also overseeing a merger of the Hair Club and Rogaine.



See what I mean.
You can still read the name on this card even though the Geneva Conventions don't seem to count anymore.

When a friend told Mel Birdwell a plane had hit the Pentagon, she was convinced that her husband had been killed.
"I knew if he were in his office, that he was standing at the throne of God, because there was no way they could have survived it," Mel Birdwell said. "Because where the plane hit was three windows from his window, where his desk was."
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/15/ret.pentagon.survivor/
Funny how she ALREADY knew how far the plane epicenter was from his window....

Now this guy was burned over 70% of his body
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing1/witness_birdwell.htm
but he still managed a salute to his Commander in Chief.
http://cbn.org/living/amazingstories/groundzero/pentagon-brianbirdwell.asp
And no IVs, no wires or breathing tubes from having his lungs seared, no painkiller I-feel-numb-all-over-drugs got in the way.

As McKinnon was trying to escape the burning building, he found Lt. Col. Brian Birdwell, who was also trying to get out.
''I couldn't even recognize him when I first saw him,'' McKinnon, 39, told a reporter Tuesday. ''His face was black and his skin was hanging in shreds and he was bleeding. He recognized me first.''
http://www.portland.com/news/attack/011101soldier.shtml

Birdwell intitially went to the wrong hospital.
http://www.thehoya.com/news/091401/news6.cfm

Brian’s prognosis was not good; his injuries were severe. He was burned on his back, lower legs, and arms, and had flash burns on his face and neck. He ears were also badly burned. But after 26 days of intensive care, 8 weeks in ICU and 12 weeks and a day in the Washington Hospital Burn Unit, he returned home before Christmas where he continues to recover.
http://www.the700club.com/700club/profiles/brian_birdwell.asp
http://www.firstcommand.com/home/fcmd_magazine/02w_firststory.html

And he has hair.





\


They ALL have hair.
And eyebros and eyelashes and moustaches (ladies included) ans even the occasional five o'clock shaddow.
http://144.246.219.246/newspaper/Specials/911/index2.htm

[QuietStorm]

66. all due to that anonymous relay team from texas I persume

wow DD you have been on this detail since the very beginning haven't you. Are you privy to any of this stuff getting to someone on the inside that might plead the case. I remember encountering a thomas spellman, I believe was his name who had said at one point eric bart's work was given to a senator. Though her eyebrow was raised she stated at the time she did not feel it would have much chance of seeing the light of day. My memory might not be remembering correctly, but from what I can recollect thomas spellman did state the material was presented to someone on public service on capital hill. I do not recall if a senator or a congressperson.

Nothing has come of any of it. Or am I wrong?

[DulceDecorum]

69. The inside is worse than the outside

And I do not know who insured any of these people but I can tell you here and now that the overwhelming majority of them would NEVER have got past an insurance adjuster.

Everyone has heard of the old trick of tossing something directly at the person with a "broken" arm. Instictively, one raises ones hand to catch it and gets BUSTED because a genuinely injured person would be unable to do so and would simply get beaned on the noggin. That's why the adjuster never feints with anything more lethal than a Beanie baby.

Brian Birdwell is up on every "lying" site on the web because his story is so preposterous.
And the photos of him lying - and I do mean LYING - up in hospital ALL show him with eyebrows and hair.

Woodrowfan and others of its ilk can choke on their darn furballs.

:puke:

And then maybe they can see their way into explaining how come Juan Cruz-Santiago whose contact lenses MELTED onto his eyeballs is NOT receiving sevices for the blind.
How come he never got a visit from an OT or a PT who would have sent a HHA over on a daily basis?
Is this any way to treat a wounded veteran?

[RH]

82. So there was no fire?

Is that supposed to be the story?

:puke:

[DulceDecorum]

96. You puke a lot

perhaps you should get that attended to.

[RH]

78. burned hair

As she limped blindly through smoke and debris, smelling her burned hair, feeling the pain from her peeling skin and a blow that had momentarily knocked her to the floor, Ms Ann Parham thought about her mother.


http://old.smh.com.au/news/0109/13/world/world15.html

[RH]

79. burned hair

Ann Parham:

"I had second-degree burns on my face, ears, hands, and the top of my head; I also had burned hair."

http://archive.ala.org/alonline/news/pentagoninterviews.html

[RH]

80. burned hair

"Some they cannot forget: the female chief petty officer, one side of her face blackened, hopefully only from smoke; the African-American soldier's burned skin that was a bright pink. Many had their hair burned off, others their skin peeled off from the burns."

http://www.mca-marines.org/Leatherneck/nov01pentagonarch.htm

[RH]

81. burned hair

"McNair immediately veered that way. The wounded man was shirtless, his skin blackened, his hair burned off, his scalp a patchwork of raw meat and soot. He looked nothing like the John Yates whom McNair knew, but the colonel bent down to offer a word of encouragement, made eye contact through his own smudged and scorched glasses, reached for the man's hand."

http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/special/911/pentagon3b.html

[DulceDecorum]

87. So glad you brought up JOHN YATES.

As for the hair on the survivors, here, see for yourself.
Let's start with this article.

(CBS) Even though 125 people were killed in the Pentagon on Sept.11, there was something miraculous about that day. The plane obliterated the first and part of the second floor, but the third, fourth and fifth floors remained suspended in midair for 35 minutes. Hundreds of people escaped. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/11/28/60II/main319383.shtml



WASHINGTON, Nov. 1, 2001
CBS) Badly burned in the terrorist attack at the Pentagon, John Yates turned horrifying injuries into a dramatic recovery. And only now is he ready to talk about what happened to him September 11th.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/11/01/archive/main316704.shtml



“As I got to the door, there stood John Yates,” said Grant. “He looked as if he had been blown out of a cannon ball. His clothes were all tattered. He was looking around as if he was looking for someone.”
Yates wasn’t aware of his surroundings because he had been blown 25-30 feet from where he was standing. “I couldn’t see. The air was almost unbreathable because it was so hot and there was so much smoke. Everything I touched burned me.”
Yates was blinded by smoke, and he had lost his glasses. He couldn’t see more than a foot in front of him, yet he led the escape from the conference room.
<snip>
(MY DAD USED TO DO THAT ALL THE TIME, TAKE OFF HIS GLASSES AND FORGET WHERE HE'D PUT THEM.)
<snip>
"I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know which way to go next,” said Yates. “Suddenly, I heard a voice that said, ‘Go out to the DMPM door. It’s clear down there.’”
To this day, he doesn’t know whose voice hollered that guidance. He can only assume it was his guardian angel.
“I just started crawling toward this voice six to eight inches off the floor trying to breathe,” he added. He traveled the width and length of the room toward the fourth corridor, CRAWLING OVER THE FUSILAGE OF THE AIRCRAFT.
http://www.riley.army.mil/newspaper/Specials/911/index2.htm

THE FUSILAGE,
PEOPLE,
HE CRAWLED OVER THE FUSILAGE OF THE AIRCRAFT.



A Boeing 757-200 airliner, laden with jet fuel, throttle open wide, had torn into the building's ``new wedge.''
Security officer John Yates was picked up and hurled 30 feet. Sgt. Maj. Tony Rose, punched into a ceiling column, watched as the glass in the C Ring windows spidered into tiny cubes.
The sound erupted a heartbeat later, a monstrous boom and crunch like a thousand file cabinets toppling at once. To demographer Betty Maxfield, the room seemed to freeze, intact, for a moment, then in slow motion the computers clicked off and the lights failed and a fireball rolled through the cubicle farm like a wave, with bulbous head and tapered tail, and as it passed, everything around it burst into flames. Cabinets overturned, partitions exploded, ceiling tiles burned and danced and fell with their metal frames. The air boiled.
<snip>
(BUT HE STILL HAS HAIR)
<snip>
John Yates came to his senses to find that his death was at hand. He could not breathe. He could not see. The room was ablaze around him. The metal furniture jumbled all about was hot enough to raise blisters. He heard screams. He wasn't sure that some weren't his.
His glasses remained on his face. They were smeared with something -- unburned jet fuel, which Yates mistook for blood. He carefully took them off, folded them, and slipped them into his shirt pocket, then stumbled toward the big room's interior.
<snip>
(SEE WHAT I MEAN ABOUT THE GLASSES?)
<snip>
By this time, Marilyn Wills had crawled from the conference room, Lois Stevens clinging to her belt. She'd seen the fire's glow beneath the door to the E Ring hall, had turned away from it, and had run into someone in the dark -- Maj. Regina M. Grant, who'd been with them at the meeting. They'd pushed into the cubicle farm to find a large form looming overhead. ``Who is that?'' Wills yelled.
``John Yates,'' the figure answered. HE WAS STANDING UPRIGHT IN THE SMOKE. ``Get up,'' he said, ``and come with me.''
``No!'' Wills screamed. ``The smoke's too thick!'' Yates strode off, Grant following at a crawl, Wills and Stevens trailing behind.
http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/special/911/pentagon2.html

TIME OUT, PEOPLE.
LET'S HAVE A REALITY CHECK.

Every member of your family should know exactly what he or she is expected to do in the event of a fire. This can be accomplished by holding family fire drills.
The first thing to learn is that no one should jump up out of bed and stand up when the alarm sounds. Instead, all family members should learn to crawl out of bed onto the floor. In the early stages of a fire, the TOXIC AND SUPER-HEATED FIRE GASES LIE IN LAYERS NEAR THE CEILING. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO STAY BELEOW THESE GASES. There have been many cases where it appears that victims slept through the build-up of deadly gases ONLY TO DIE WHEN THEY STOOD UP and inhaled them.
http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000001-d000100/d000048/d000048.html

Woodrowfan, please check the credentials of this website and tell us if they are up to your exacting standards.
Tell us if these facts apply to ALL human beings or only those who operate OUTSIDE US military installations.

REALITY CHECK OVER.



``Who is that?'' Wills yelled.
``John Yates,'' the figure answered. He was standing upright in the smoke. ``Get up,'' he said, ``and come with me.''
``No!'' Wills screamed. ``The smoke's too thick!'' Yates strode off,(AND LEFT THEM) Grant following at a crawl, Wills and Stevens trailing behind.
<snip>
AND HE DID NOT HAVE HIS GLASSES ON TO PROTECT HIS EYEBROW OR EYELASH HAIR.
<snip>
Now he crawled headfirst into a wall and knew that he had reached the hallway linking the big room to the Fourth Corridor. As he moved away from the cubicle farm he felt the cool water of sprinklers on his back, and could make out dim shapes in the lightening smoke. The door to the corridor had been blown off its hinges. He turned into the thoroughfare, collapsed, lay on the floor for what might have been 10 seconds, might have been several minutes. Then he STOOD UP and walked down the corridor toward the building's middle.
Lt. Col. Victor Correa appeared in the smoke. Are you all right? he asked. Yates replied that no, he wasn't. His body was smoking, and he radiated heat: Correa could feel it from three feet away.
<snip>
John Yates lay on his back in the Pentagon's center courtyard, staring at the sky. It was bright blue, an almost mockingly cheerful shade, except where a heavy black smear drifted eastward from the fires burning in the new wedge. The sunshine was uncomfortably warm against his skin.
He could see he was hurt. Burned skin hung off his hands. His left thumb looked as if it had exploded; the nail appeared to be barely attached to the digit's swollen tip. His skin was stark white; he'd later learn that bystanders wondered why he was wearing surgical gloves.
Just how badly he was injured began to sink in when he overheard a doctor speaking with the medic cutting his clothes away. ``He's the first to go,'' the doctor said. ``He needs to get out of here, now.''
Even so, Yates was calm. The courtyard's quiet was welcome respite from the insanity inside. When rescuers sat a woman he knew on the grass beside him, and she couldn't stop coughing, he leaned toward her and told her: ``Hang in there. You'll be all right.''
http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/special/911/pentagon2.html

TIME OUT, PEOPLE.
LET'S HAVE ANOTHER REALITY CHECK.

Fire is HOT!
Heat is more threatening than flames.
A fire's heat alone can kill. Room temperatures in a fire can be 100 degrees at floor level and rise to 600 degrees at eye level. INHALING THIS SUPERHOT AIR WILL SCORCH YOUR LUNGS. This heat can melt clothes to your skin. In five minutes a room can get so hot that everything in it ignites at once: this is called flashover.
Fire is DARK!
Fire isn't bright, it's pitch black.
Fire starts bright, but quickly produces black smoke and complete darkness. If you wake up to a fire you may be blinded, disoriented and UNABLE TO FIND YOUR WAY AROUND THE HOME YOU'VE LIVED IN FOR YEARS.
Fire is DEADLY!
Smoke and toxic gases kill more people than flames do.
Fire uses up the oxygen you need and produces smoke and poisonous gases that kill. BREATHING EVEN SMALL AMOUNTS amounts of smoke and toxic gases can make you drowsy, disoriented and short of breath. The odorless, colorless fumes CAN LULL YOU INTO A DEEP SLEEP before the flames reach your door. YOU MAY NOT WAKE UP IN TIME TO ESCAPE.
Fire Safety Tips
In the event of a fire, remember time is the biggest enemy and EVERY SECOND COUNTS!
http://www.usfa.fema.gov/public/factsheets/thisis.shtm

RH, darling,
would you mind taking the trouble to ascertain the credibility of this website?
Is this the ype of thing that happens EVERYWHERE where combustible materials are to be found?
Or is this type of chemical reaction expressly forbidden within the confines of US military intallations?

Perhaps then you will be able to tell us just how it is that the lungs of a certain John Yates were still functioning well enough for him to be able reassure some helpess coughing female.
We are going to ignore the "fact" that his body radiated so much heat that it could be readily detected from a distance of three feet in the middle of a raging blaze.
We are also going to ignore the non-stick fusilage that he crawled over and the fact that metal conducts heat. We are going to ignore the fact that aircraft firesare notorious for having far more than the usual amount of toxins and the fact that he would have had no recourse but to breathe them in.
We are going to leave all these, and other troubleing matters asise (such as that Petrovich and his computer)and we are only going to talk about the HAIR.

AND NOW,
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,
THE MOMENT OF HIRSUTE YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR,
ALLOW ME TO PRESENT,
THE HAIR OF JOHN YATES.

John Yates displays some of the burns he suffered over 38 percent of his body, in a snapshot taken during his hospital stay.
http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/special/911/pentagon4.html

Please open another window.
Examine the photo and this post side by side.
Allow me to refresh you memory.
RH posted this:

"McNair immediately veered that way. The wounded man was shirtless, HIS SKIN WAS BLACKENED, HIS HAIR BURNED OFF, HIS SCALP A PATCHWORK OF RAW MEAT AND SOOT. He looked nothing like the John Yates whom McNair knew, but the colonel bent down to offer a word of encouragement, made eye contact through his own smudged and scorched glasses, reached for the man's hand."
http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/special/911/pentagon3b.html

Please recall this statement.
He could see he was hurt. BURNED SKIN HUNG OFF HIS HANDS. His left thumb looked as if it had exploded; the nail appeared to be barely attached to the digit's swollen tip. His skin was stark white; he'd later learn that bystanders wondered why he was wearing surgical gloves.
http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/special/911/pentagon3b.html

RH,
could you hazard a guess as to WHY McNair reached for the man's hand?
RH, do you see ANY sign of "a patchwork or raw meat and soot" having EVER been present?
Show me. RH, show me.

I see hair.
Lots of hair.
John Yates STILL has hair on his head.
John Yates STILL has his eyebrows.
John Yates STILL has his eyelashes.
John Yates STILL has a wicked beard.

And if they had not painted that red stuff, we would probably all be able to clearly see if
John Yates STILL has hair on his forearms.

Where are the nurses?
Why is he NOT on a drip? Burn victims are notorious for catching infections in their open and weakened state.
Why does that room resemble the janitor's closet?
How come ONLY his arms appear burned?

What about the knees he used for crawling? He NEVER complains about those and there is NO record of them having been treated.
And why only superficial first degree burns that can be treated at home? The surgical gloves led us to believe that the burns were deeper and that considerable inflamation would result which brings us back to the drip.

Why does the area of burn end so abruptly?
How long is supposed to hold up his arms?
What happens when he tires and has to put them down on that unsterile sheet?
How come the new skin is developing as if he were never burned?
What the heck do you think pressure gloves are used for, huh?

Does that left thumb look exploded to you?

Does that face look burned to you?
No?
Then why is he wearing that face thing later on?
And how come his compression gloves end at the wrist in that picture when in this one the injuries clearly extend almost to the elbow?

Shouldn't he at least have gotten a hot foot, what with all the striding around that our Mr. Nomex did?

People,
it is really SAD to see the manner in which our heroes are treated once they enter Veteran's Hospitals.
I've seen better facilities at the local animal shelter and they KILL the majority of their patients legally and intentionally.
Sheesh.

You wanna know about
Burns and Wound Management?
Then take a look at this site, guys.
Careful, it has some pictures of people with REAL BURNS and they are not as photogenic as the Pentagon 77 crowd.
The photos are in black and white so most of you can stand to see them and you have NO IDEA of the trouble I went to find some REAL pictures that would not turn your stomach.

Remember that radiating heat thing?
Well, I've decided I can't just let it go after all.
Look closely at that second paragraph.

Few life events compare with the immediate and long-term effects of a burn injury. Initial effects include marked pain and anxiety and, with large burns, extreme metabolic changes. Patients with permanent scars are emotionally affected for life8 and are the victims of subtle discrimination on many levels.

Definition of Thermal Burns
Humans are warm-blooded creatures who rigorously maintain their body temperature in a narrow range between 95oF and 105oF. Core temperatures outside this range are poorly tolerated and have adverse effects on the subject. Although patients have survived with a measured core temperature below 65oF under extreme circumstances,31 elevations of the core temperature above 110oF are rapidly fatal.40
http://www.regionshospital.com/Regions/Menu/0,1640,4822,00.html


Some fire that was, couldn't burn hair worth a damn.
I can lose an eyebrow at the backyard grill easily.
But then again, I am not a Penta-hero and I cling to 20th Century science.

John Yates, a civilian employee at the Pentagon, spent TWO MONTHS in the hospital recovering from burns.
"The trip was wonderful," Yates said. "We had been through the one year anniversary. Everyday that goes by helps you to heal. It was good to get away from it all after the anniversary. I WENT HOME THE FRIDAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING . We're totally enjoying these holidays. My physical recovery is progressing. Emotional, it's going to take longer."
Yates' wife Ellen talked about the trip.
"It was very helpful being with all the other people," she said. "Meeting young Navy wives who lost their husbands made me realize how lucky I was to still have my husband."
http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/7_48/local_news/20605-1.html

No Kidding, Ellen.
It's nothing short of a miracle.

[RH]

99. So your point is supposed to be that ....?

:shrug:


There was no fire?

There were no injuries?

Is that supposed to be your version of it or what?

I shall look forward to your eventual meeting with John Yates.

His eyebrows do not look so bushy to me.

Was any other part of you damaged by your backyard grill?

[cherryperry]

104. Those tombstones have crosses on them ...

Oh, good, I'm sure the Jews on Flight 93 will feel great about that.

Also, contrary to your hateful beliefs, the large number of Jews who (I'm guessing you believe 4,000 Jews actually got a warning to stay home from work on 9/11)were among the falling ashes along with their Moslem, Christian, Atheist and whatever Eastern religion (I don't intend to leave out) sisters and brothers will feel wonderful as well in their newly re-located places you have conjured up for them ...

You make me very sad. I don't write that for any response from your cold cold heart, I write it because I need to just for me!

[WoodrowFan]

72. reposted with nasty part deleted

"teensy weensy hole" HUH!! I've seen it, and the hole is HUGE. You have no bleeping clue how big the building is..

"And the fire they caused made sure that it did not actually burn anyone's hair."

Here's a picture of my wife's friend who burned to death in the Pentagon. Go tell his widow he "wasn't burned."

<>

He was buried at Arlington National Cemetery in view of the HUGE fucking hole in the side of the building. They were childhood sweethearts and he had just been awarded his first command of his own ship......

then, when you're done with the widow, you can go tell all the people listed here your "theories" about how the plane didn't hit the building..

[RH]

76. did not actually burn anyone's hair?

I can understand the outrage.

:puke:

How pathetic for anonymous jokers such as 'quietstorm' (whoever he may be) to complain of any insult!

:puke:

What about the victims' relatives, the witneses, the survivors who were injured, and those honestly involved with the investigation? Would they not have a similar right to feel maybe just a little bit insulted to be accused of willfully participating in a mass murder conspiracy?

:puke:

[DulceDecorum]

86. Choking on hairballs?

Show us ONE picture taken and posted BEFORE January 2002 which has ONE Pentagon victim with singed hair.

There are NONE.
The PR clowns forgot to do their homework.

And it wasn't Quietstorm who complained.

[RH]

93. Janis Ann Jackson

"The blast raced through the area, scattering equipment and the workers. The fiery heat engulfed Jackson as it filled the room. Struggling to gain her composure she was unaware her hair was on fire."

from
http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/stripe/6_39/local_news/10754-1.html

[DulceDecorum]

95. Eyebrows,

moustache.

AND HAIR.
LOTS OF LOVELY HAIR.



And who did the job on her arms?
They recovered SO BEAUTIFULLY.

I was SO UPSET when I saw them all wrapped up like that that I almost posted this:
IS THIS ANY WAY TO TREAT A HERO?
WHY DIDN'T THEY LET DILORENZO HELP OUT?

Army Medical Department personnel were among the first to provide aid to Pentagon victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack on the building the world recognizes as the home of the U.S. Defense Department.
http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/news/releases/AidPentagon.htm

While Pentagon clinic personnel were providing in-building triage, the Navy Annex personnel, less than a mile away, responded by setting up a triage center in a nearby gymnasium. Within 30 minutes, several patients were triaged, treated and transported for smoke inhalation and severe burns. Additionally, the personnel also arranged logistical support for incoming casualties.
http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=969

For first and second degree burns you must begin to minimize the damage quickly. Immerse the affected area in cool running water until the burning feelings leave. This can take longer than 10 minutes. Do not stop this cooling off step too early. If the victim is burnt through the clothing, as in a spill of hot liquid, do not remove the clothing - immediately immerse the burnt area in the cool water. Butter, oil, lotions, or creams should not be applied to burns. They will worsen it. COVERING THE BURN WITH ADHESIVE DRESSING OR BANDAGES IS ALSO NOT ADVISABLE, BURNS NEED TO BREATHE.

Third Degree Burns

A third degree burn involves all the layers of the skin. The burn will destroy the nerves and the blood vessels in the skin. There is very little pain at first. The burn area is white, yellow, black or cherry red. The skin will be dry and leathery. As the burns heal there will be dense scarring and possible skin grafting.
Treatment
For third and fourth degree burns call for emergency medical assistance or take them immediately to the emergency room. Do not remove any clothing stuck to the burnt area, cover with a clean cloth.
http://www.burn-victim-center.com/types.html

But then I saw that the mummy-wrapper-man DID know what he was doing.
I am SO glad that she recovered the full use of her limbs and that fine head of hair grew right back.

Jackson was hospitalized in the intensive care unit for several days with second- and third-degree burns and smoke inhalation.
http://montana-royalrangers.org/fcf/news/091102.htm

Rescue workers ushered her to a safe area and poured water over her to cool her down as they waited for an ambulance to take her to the Arlington Medical Center for treatment.
Jackson spent three days in intensive care before being moved to Walter Reed to be treated for burns and smoke inhalation.
http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/stripe/6_39/local_news/10754-1.html

The one good thing about that day is that they never ran out of water.

[RH]

100. So your point is supposed to be that ....?

:shrug:


There was no fire?

There were no injuries?


Will you tell us next that nobody was killed?

[cherryperry]

105. Thank you, RH n/t

[DulceDecorum]

97. RE: reposted

Commander Robert A. Schlegel US Navy
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/raschlegel.htm

"He's got enough flagpoles named after him," said David. "He's a small-town hero."
But there is something that bothers the Schlegel family, and that's how little the Pentagon seems to be remembered any time Sept. 11 is discussed. The focus always seems to be on New York City, not the Pentagon, or Pennsylvania, where one of the hijacked planes crashed after passengers mounted a resistance to terrorists.
http://www.mainetoday.com/9-11/news/020908victims.shtml

Schlegel, who lived in Alexandria, Va., worked at the Pentagon as a scheduler, assigning the cruise routes and dates for Navy ships, according to family members. His wife, Dawn, is a government psychologist.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-091401victims,0,6092815.story
http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/Funerals_for_Pentagon_victims_embrace_all.html

GRAY — Robert A. Schlegel's promotion to commander last month earned him the highest rank in a family steeped in Navy tradition.
It also earned him a new office at the Pentagon.
http://www.portland.com/news/attack/010915schlegel.shtml

"Nobody seems to know where he was at the time of the crash," David said.
Although Robert worked in the Pentagon for more than one year, he had only been in that section of the building since his promotion.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/2001news/exeter/e9_23b.htm


We are hoping that he is alive as at least one of the men who hijacked that plane.
Why deprive us of that hope?
Hope is all that we have left of him.
Rather than using profanity and insults to incite an avalanche,
better YOU should go and tell THESE families that THEIR loved ones were NOT burned.

February 16, 2002
Four more vaults at the Tri-State Crematory were opened and found filled with bodies and a special federal portable morgue and team of experts that worked the World Trade Center disaster is being brought in to help in the probe.
Authorities, investigating what Walker County Sheriff Steve Wilson called "a national tragedy," said that ashes represented as remains of 51 cremated persons and returned to families from the Noble, Ga., crematory have been brought back and tested. So far, nine have been determined to be not human remains and appear to be powdered cement.
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_18071.asp

What does this have to do with Barbara Olson?

[Old and In the Way]

103. Well stated....

Lots of mutually conflicted facts and oddities about the whole scenario of what happened on 77...

[number6]

113. Excellent !

:thumbsup: :hi: :smoke:

[QuietStorm]

39. again

I didn't get too much into the cell phone calls or BO, but the comment you make makes sense. I am under the impression that cell calls have to be with distance from what are they satelites up in the air high at regularly flying altitude I am not sure cell phones would even work.

(Attn: to Jackriddlers quotes. One says she called from the john the other from the plane phone in a passenger seat).

I had also heard or read perhaps in the Timeline that these calls could have been audio feed. Was anything more discovered :eyes: or hypothesized on audio feed. I realize if that is the case that would really take an insider to substantiate that.

But that would be the only explanation for any of the cell phone calls. I mean if in fact there was no service. How could there have been any REAL cell phone calls.

IF cell phone DO work on a plane: I read something to suggest they don't until perhaps the plane gets low enough to be picked up by I am not sure if it is called radar or satellite. I have had no client ever call me from a plane. I work with marketing people who travel regularly. If we are in the middle of business and they have to hit the road. All clients call me from airports leaving or within stop overs. NEVER FROM THE PLANE. That would indicate to me that they either are not allowed to use the phones in flight OR the phones just do not work.

[QuietStorm]

41. cellphone technology: Not sure connectivity is always possible

WHY? because it seems there is patent pending based on this article which will provide technology in the future so that cellphones can work on planes. If that is the case then they don't work on planes then. At present they operate within the vicinity of antenna's. So it is arguable that when the plane gets closer to the ground they could work. But I do not know the variables here. How close were these planes to the ground when cell phone calls came in?

snip.

AirCell wins patent for cellphone technology Louisville company targets in-flight calls

Like it or not, airline passengers soon could be yakking on their cellphones during flights. And a Louisville company could help make that happen.

By Jennifer Beauprez, Denver Post Business Writer

AirCell was awarded a U.S. patent Tuesday for its technology, which uses airliner-mounted radio transceivers to connect callers with any of 135 antenna sites across the nation.

Cellphones do sometimes work now during airline flights at low altitudes, as witnessed by the flood of cell calls from passengers aboard doomed flights on Sept. 11, 2001.

But the Federal Communications Commission currently prohibits the use of cellphones during airplane flights, because of concerns that electronic emissions might interfere with equipment aboard the planes.

Travelers don't always want to let go of their gadgets, however. Some continue talking on their phones until the doors of the plane close. Some passengers even hide handheld pagers in books to discreetly send e-mail during flights.

Cash-strapped airlines, looking for additional revenue streams, have noticed.

http://www.matr.net/print-7339.html

IF THIS CASE WAS TAKEN TO COURT AND I WAS THE LAWYER AND QUESTIONED THE CELL PHONE EVIDENCE. I would insist flight tests be conducted.

http://www.matr.net/print-7339.html

[DulceDecorum]

42. The art student who loved me

We are all aware of the importance the Republicans place on truth, especially if a devil in a blue dress is involved.

A Small Cartel of Conservative Lawyers Rewrites the American Rule
Court Jousters
Of all the Federalist members, perhaps the best known is Solicitor General Olson. An assistant attorney general under Reagan, Olson has popped up at just about every event in D.C. since then, defending convicted spy Jonathan Pollard, representing Starr, advising Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky, and supposedly taking part in the infamous Arkansas Project, which tried to link Clinton to mob dope runs from Central America into Mena, Arkansas. Olson has denied any connection. He is perhaps most famous for this statement: "THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT SITUATIONS WHERE THE GOVERNMENT HAS LEGITIMATE REASONS TO GIVE OUT FALSE INFORMATION."
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0225/ridgeway.php

And we all know that Republicans frown greatly on sex outside marriage.

Trivial Pursuit manufacturer Selchow & Richter removed the question - "How many months pregnant was Nancy Davis when she walked down the aisle with Ronnie Reagan?" from the US Genus Edition game, claiming that "it is distasteful in this country." The answer is two and a half months.

So today's question is:
WHEN, IF EVER, DID TED OLSON ACTUALLY MARRY BARBARA BRACHER?

This page has some info about her but it doesn't say anything about her wedding day.
http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2001/Olson.htm

It was just ten years ago when Barbara Bracher appeared at the Russell Senate Office Building late one night as we prepared to testify on behalf of Clarence Thomas’ nomination to the Supreme Court. As was typical of Barbara, she didn’t wait to be asked or given an assignment. She just wanted to join the fight.
http://www.iwf.org/pubs/exfemina/December2001a.shtml

It's against this backdrop of concern and commitment that we look at the United States Supreme Court as a very, very telling instrument in bringing about a healthy, fair and just criminal justice system. Its decisions on criminal law impact not only on individual litigants, but also they resonate forcefully throughout the Federal court system and the State court system.
Given this key role of the Court, CLO and our members wanted to know more about Judge Thomas and his views and his philosophy. Given that face, WE COMMISSIONED BARBARA BRACHER, (OLSON) a litigation attorney with one of the major D.C. law firms, TO PREPARE A REPORT on the judicial philosophy of Judge Thomas, particularly as it is reflected in his criminal law decisions on the D.C. Circuit Court.
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~govdoc/thomas/0920a11.html

So we know that she was still passing herself off as Barbara Bracher in 1991.

Class of 1989
"As the power couples of Washington come and go, the Olsons may have proven themselves in a class by themselves in THE LAST EIGHT YEARS, becoming the most celebrated and acutely dedicated pair of conservatives who, with great conviction, have opposed and harried Clinton Democrats in the main capital arenas: the courts, the Congress, and the media."
http://www.cardozo.net/life/winter2001/class.actions/
2001 - 8 = 1993.

OK. Bear with me now.
This article appeared in the Winter 2001 edition which means that it was probably ready for publication in 2000. But that is too confusing for some of us here so lets behave as if it was corrected for the 2001 readers.
Lets do the math.
2001 - 8 = 1993
Therefore, according to this article, Ted and Barbara, THE OLSONS, had been together since 1993.

She noticed Olson at a legal conference in 1989, where she was enthralled by his discussion of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations act, known as RICO.
"He had a fabulous voice. Rich, rumbling, sort of makes-your-ribs-vibrate voice," Barbara Olson recalled. "He really made sense out of the RICO statutes. Then I looked up and thought he was kind of cute."
They married in 1996. It is her second marriage, his third.
http://www.sptimes.com/News/121100/Election2000/Couple_at_center_of__.shtml

So they got married in 1996, and they were married for five years.
Sorry for wasting your time folks.

Herded with other passengers, and at least one of the pilots, into the back of the aircraft before its final plunge, those with cell phones are ordered by the hijackers to call relatives to inform them they are about to die. CNN reporter Barbara Olson used her cell phone to twice call her husband's office at the Justice Department (her husband, Solicitor General Ted Olson, argued President Bush's case before the U.S. Supreme Court during the Florida vote- counting fiasco of the last presidential election). Understandably declining to provide details of the conversations with HIS WIFE OF JUST SEVEN WEEKS, Ted Olson said she described the hijackers as armed with "knife-like" weapons. Barbara Olson's last words to her husband: "What do I tell the pilot to do?"
http://www.istrianet.org/usa/sept11/timeline.htm

SEVEN WEEKS?
HIS WIFE OF SEVEN WEEKS?
Boy, my math is REALLY off.
If I keep this up I may just qualify for a job doing Enron's books.
Gee, seven weeks.
Seven weeks.....

September 12, 2001
SYDNEY, Australia (CNN) -- Control of New York's World Trade Center passed from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey only SEVEN WEEKS ago to Silverstein Properties and the U.S. unit of Australian shopping center group Westfield.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/asia/09/12/aust.westfield.biz/

Press reports pegged the deal at $3.2 billion. In March, Silverstein began negotiating with the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey for the lease when a deal with Vornado Realty Trust fell through, the interactive version of the Wall Street Journal reported.
http://money.cnn.com/2001/04/26/deals/wtc/

It was terrible.
Both the WTC and the Olson marriage collapsed on the same day.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN": First of all, I was on a flight on a runway to go to New York. It was canceled because they said two planes had run into the building in New York, so they canceled our flight. I got off the plane, I headed back to my car to come back to work.
I was in the rooftop of National Airport's parking lot which is about two blocks from the Pentagon. And I heard something funny -- no, first, my husband said to me, we better get out of here. And I thought is was a little bit strange, my husband was acting a little bit like an alarmist, I turned back to look at him, I heard something funny, I looked over his shoulder, I saw something, I saw something, I am not sure quite what it was, but low level.
Then all of a sudden there was silence, then there was a Kaboom, and then smoke came billowing out and I knew that it was the Pentagon. The Pentagon is about two blocks, of course, form National Airport hidden behind some building. And there was just smoke and debris flying all over coming up in the air -- obviously a very terrible site.
BLITZER: And we are taking a look at some live pictures right now. You can see the fires still continuing at the Pentagon, some 12 hours later. What was your first thought when you heard the Kaboom? Did you have any sense what was really going on?
VAN SUSTEREN: At that point I knew there was a big problem. I knew it was the Pentagon and I knew that something horrible had happened and I could see the magnitude of it. And it was really one of terror because we had no idea was there more coming? Was National Airport next? It was only two blocks away. Cell phones went down. I tried two cell phones and was having difficulty and I finally did get through to CNN.
The traffic was tied up. I heard plenty of sirens and almost no information until I got in the car and did find out what happened. And always, in addition to having to witness this, several hours later I learned that someone I know quite well, Barbara Olson, who has appeared on this network a number of times and whose husband is the solicitor general the of the United States was one of the fatalities on the airplane.
http://commemoratewtc.com/transcripts/tr-20-52.php

Ahh Barbara.
She liked her nine inches.
Her skirts, nails and heels were all about that length.
Ooops, is my mathematical illiteracy showing again?

My colleague David Carlson, once a visiting professor at Michigan, spoke of a weekend when Barbara attended a Federalist Society convention at that school and ended up in a late night poker game with such outstanding jurisprudential scholars as Robert Bork and Douglas Ginsburg.
http://www.cardozo.net/life/spring2002/lost/
The men were playing hard; Barbara stripped them of their money.

Barbara Olson, 45, a native of Houston, was buried Saturday in her beloved Door County (WISCONSIN.)
Ted Olson, whose family has roots in Door County going back five generations, told 150 mourners at Bethel Baptist Church in Ellison Bay that their presence was a great comfort to his family.
He said his wife cherished the time spent at their cabin in Ellison Bay during summer vacations.
“It was hard to get her to leave,” he said. His wife, a frequent guest on Larry King’s show on CNN, refused to go to his studios when she was on vacation. So the show came to Door County.
The show’s producers sent satellite TV trucks from Chicago to do her interview.
“There were trucks parked on the road outside our little cabin,” Olson recalled. That happened about 15 times, he said.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/news/archive/local_1728588.shtml

The impact of the Pentagon crash was so great that THE JET VIRTUALLY DISINTEGRATED, said Chief Ed Plaugher of the Arlington County, Va., Fire Department. He was one of the hundreds of firefighters who battled the stubborn flames in the Pentagon's roof that finally were doused around 4 p.m.
<snip>
More than half of the Pentagon's 23,000 employees reported to work Wednesday afternoon. But a general feeling of tension and sadness in their offices gave way to an all-too-familiar burst of fear and panic around noon, when employees in the southern wedge were evacuated for approximately 30 minutes. The emergency evacuation was prompted by rumors that an unidentified plane was headed for the building, Pentagon spokesman Dan Philbin said. It turned out to be a false alarm.
http://www.timesunion.com/aspstories/storyprint.asp?storyID=43357

However the federal morticians managed to put our little Frankenpundit
back together again, despite the rumors that there was so little left of the jet that whole entire bodies could not be recovered and identified merely by fingerprinting their fire-proof hands.
Barbara received tributes worthy of her demise.

Shortly afterward, a friend of Bracher’s autographed a bomb “in remembrance of Barbara Olson.”
In January, Bracher will move to Virginia to begin four months of training before his deployment on a guided missile destroyer. He will oversee the Advanced Tomahawk Automatic Weapon Control Station, maintaining the computers that operate the missiles and loading in the navigational data.
More simply, Bracher says, “I’m the guy who fires the Tomahawk missiles.”
http://www.theeagle.com/septanniv/090802csmanmourns.htm

Fallbrook High's flag hung at half-staff in memory of those lost in New York and Washington, D.C. in last week's terrorist attacks. Student Brandon Sanders rallied the crowd, saying the group had come together to pray for our country and for our schools. The 16-year-old is a representative for WARRIORS FOR CHRIST, a Christian Youth club on campus.
<snip>
While some students prayed for the victims of last week's terrorist attacks, other students worked on fund-raising to memorialize those who lost their lives. Junior April Schimke and her mother Gale started a coin drive on Monday called "Pennies for the Pentagon," which is raising money to send flowers to the national military headquarters.
http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20010920/102644.html

David Hicks, owner of Conklyn's Flowers, said he was moved by the Fallbrook students' gesture and wanted to help them fulfill their mission, so he knocked about $5,500 off the actual cost of the flowers.
Dan Philbin, a public affairs official with the Office of the Secretary of Defense said the Pentagon has witnessed an outpouring of support from the nation.
http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20011005/102152.html

Dan Philbin, a public affairs official with the Office of the Secretary of Defense said the Pentagon has received many gifts and banners from people throughout the nation, but the rose bouquets stood out as the biggest donation workers received, he said. Philbin said he could see the emotions register on workers' faces as he distributed the flowers.
http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20011029/53325.html

Dan Philbin.
Dan Philbin.
Now where have I heard that name before?

July 22, 1997
Now here I am in the afternoons and I start getting e-mail from a guy by the name of Dan Philbin. I get this mail regularly, as Dan and I write back and forth. Many listeners write in to me and I write back to them all the time. In one of my notes back to him, I said, "Philbin? By any chance, are you related to Regis Philbin?" He said, "Well, yeah, he's my dad, but I don't want to make a big deal out of that." I said, "I don't want to make a big deal out of it either, but we love your dad and we loved having him come on the show and it would be great if that could happen again." Now, BOOM! Here is Regis Philbin! Hi, Reege!
http://www.harrisonline.com/intvws/Philbin.htm

December 4, 1997
Philbin: Hi, Paul! How are you doing?
Harris: I'm doing fine. Regis knows a little something about Children's Hospital, because his son Dan, a faithful listener of ours, has had some pretty severe medical problems since childhood. So I appreciate your coming on and talking about this to help me promote The Paul Harris Comedy Concert For Children's Hospital.
http://www.harrisonline.com/intvws/Philbin2.htm

Philbin was sitting at his desk in the Pentagon when the terrorist-flown airliner slammed into the building on Sept. 11, 2001. His first reaction was, "Get the hell out of the building!" Once outside, he decided to see what he could do to help his office deal with the media.
"I PUSHED MYSELF over to the Navy Exchange gas station -- ABOUT A MILE -- where the (Office of the Secretary of Defense) Public Affairs had set up a command post. They were trying to continue the public affairs operation from there until we could get back into the building."
The citation to the award states, "That evening, while the building was still in flames, he returned to the Pentagon to help with the secretary of defense's press conference. He came back on Sept. 12 to perform additional duties. This bravery and dedication were not without cost, as he was hospitalized later for several days."
http://www.dod.mil/news/Dec2002/n12042002_200212045.html

And NONE of the wonderful Penta-heroes lent this man a hand.

Armed with the girls' 189 bouquets, the three "delivery men" loaded them on a large handcart and went from office to office from the basement to the fifth floor randomly passing out roses to military and civilian men and women. Heilsnis is director for public inquiry and analysis in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, Philbin is one of his writer-editors and Cooper, one of his clerks.
<snip>
It's the nicest thing that has happened to me in a long time," said Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria "Torie" Clarke, assistant secretary of defense for public affairs. "I always get choked up talking about this. As tragic as the events of Sept. 11 were, so many people have done so many amazing things."
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2001/n10182001_200110181.html

BATHROOM HUMOR: A Norwich, Conn., company that put Osama bin Laden's face on toilet paper is sending 200 rolls to the Pentagon. Defense Department spokesman Dan Philbin is delighted. "I'll make sure the secretary of defense's office gets some and I'll give some to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff," he said. The message on the toilet paper: Wipe out terrorism.
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/03/17/Business/Loose_change.shtml

Sweet cheeks would have loved that.
Almost as much as former Hill & Knowlton manager Torrie enjoyed getting her "randomly passed out" bouquet of roses celebrating her PR work in precipitating Gulf War II.

But I digress.

According to many reports, Barbara Bracher (somebody) Olson was a teacher or maybe even a professional ballet dancer who worked with the Houston and the San Fanscisco and the Harkness ballet companies.
None of these organisations seems to have any record of her and no record of her blackboard days has surfaced either.
At least not where I have been looking.
There are also claims that she was previously married before the Pretty Woman hooked up with Ted.
Who, or what she was married to, for how long, and with what result, remain mysteries.
At least to me.

The whole thing remainds me of the Biography of Tommy Franks.
Both of them start out in Houston and no-one seems to be able to remember seeing these people the early years.
But Tommy's biography is much cooler than Barbara ever was.
And he is still alive.

Overseas, too, Franks has the confidence of heads of state, some of whom count him as a friend. King Abdullah II of Jordan gave Franks a Harley-Davidson after discovering their shared interest in motorcycles; Pakistan’s Pervez Musharraf calls him often; Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak received Franks on short notice in Cairo when bad weather forced him to change his route home from Qatar.
Like the president, Tommy Ray Franks grew up in Midland, Texas, attending the same high school as first lady Laura Bush, who was a year behind him. Franks’ principal at Robert E. Lee High School, Leslie Hinds, remembers him as utterly ordinary, one of those people who don’t "start blossoming" until adulthood.
Tommy Ray loved fast cars, Elvis and hunting, says Foster, who looked up to his nine-years-older cousin.
After two years of what Franks describes as "abysmal" grades at the University of Texas at Austin, he joined the Army and was soon an artillery lieutenant bound for Vietnam, where his injuries earned him three Purple Hearts.
Even halfway around the world, Franks always was tethered to his family. Foster recalls the family opening presents at precisely 8 a.m. on Christmas so Franks would know just what was happening back home.
http://www.poconorecord.com/report/iraqwar/000087.htm

Hmmmm.
Barbara Bracher only attended the University of St Thomas in Houston, which is a good Catholic school.

5. Necessity is the mother of chutzpah.
Successful women don't play it safe—especially when they see a risky choice as their only choice.
When attorney and conservative commentator Barbara Olson decided to go to law school, she knew what her father's reaction would be. He believed that people went to graduate school because they didn't want to work.
Olson graduated in 1978 with a teaching degree from the University of St. Thomas in her hometown of Houston, then tried to figure out the fastest way to make $50,000 to put herself through law school.
http://www.washingtonian.com/people/powerfulwomen/intro.html

Most sources seem to agree that she was born in 1955.
According to my calculations, that would make her twenty three when she graduated from the University of St. Thomas.

Within months of graduation, 22-YEAR-OLD Olson moved to Los Angeles to get into the movie business. She called every actor—starting with the A's—who had a production company. She was vague about her background, talking up her one experience working on a TV show during college.
http://www.washingtonian.com/people/powerfulwomen/intro.html

OK. So I can't add. Or maybe it a month thing.
Whatever.
But I am certain that 22 + 6 = 28
which is how old she would have been when she entered law school but maybe she was sucessful in lying about her age way back then.
Anyhow, here is a bio of Stacy Keach Sr.
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hc&id=1800140050&cf=biog&intl=us
He is the father of the middle aged guy you see running around as Mike Hammer.
Stacy Sr just died. He was 88.
His bio tells you when he got married, to whom and for how long and how many kids they had and their name.
I wish I could find one for Barbara that did the same thing.

Barbara was a Texan, from a family whose ancestors came to this country from Germany. She went to the all-American University of Texas and also a Catholic college, St. Thomas in Houston. She became a professional ballet dancer in San Francisco and New York because of the beauty of dance, the rigor of its discipline, and because you have to be extraordinarily tough and ambitious to do it. And Barbara was extraordinarily tough and ambitious.
<snip>
She went to Cardozo Law School at Yeshiva University in New York, not necessarily the obvious choice for a blond Catholic girl from Texas. She was even told that she would never fit in, and that she would be miserable. But the people who told her that really did not know Barbara. She thrived at Cardozo as she had thrived at St. Thomas and in the ballet and in Hollywood. She loved the people, the classes, the professors, and she was a huge success, popping up for one reason or another with embarrassing frequency on the cover of Jewish Weekly.

Barbara created a Federalist Society chapter at Cardozo because she believed in the Society's principles - and it only served to goad her on that almost no one at Cardozo shared her political views.
In her third year of law school, she somehow managed to finesse herself into an internship with the Office of Legal Counsel at the Department of Justice in Washington. And, as a very brassy and gusty intern, she managed to be the only employee of the government of the United States willing, feisty and fearless enough to personally serve the papers on the PLO mission to the United Nations in New York announcing that it was being expelled from this country -- because they were terrorists. How Barbara loved to tell that story to her friends at Cardozo!
http://www.fed-soc.org/BKOlsonMemorialLecture/bkolsonlecture-111601.htm

Oy!
Popping up for one reason or another with embarrassing frequency on the cover of Jewish Weekly?
Some shiksa.
Out of respect for her, here are a few snippets of the work of one man whose work she arranged to have published.

That profiling is wicked per se is an idea that seems to have originated in connection with police work, when black civil-rights spokesmen began to allege that officers were relying on race as the sole criterion for suspecting someone of criminal activity. Profiling, in other words, equaled racism by definition. Yet, as Heather Mac Donald has demonstrated in Are Cops Racist?, the idea rests on a false assumption—namely, that crime rates are constant across every racial and ethnic component of our society. Thus, if blacks, who make up 11 percent of the population, are subject to 20 percent of all police stops on a particular highway, racial bias must be at fault.
But the truth is that (to stick to this particular example) blacks do speed more than whites, a fact that in itself justifies a heightened awareness of skin color as one of several criteria in police work. Of course, there is no excuse for blatant racism; but, as Mac Donald meticulously documents in case after case around the country, there is by and large no evidence that police have relied excessively on ethnic or racial profiling in conducting their normal investigations.
<snip>
Ironically, it is the very randomness of the new security checks that has generated so much skepticism about their efficacy. Old ladies, children, Catholic priests—all have been subject to searches of San Quentin-like thoroughness despite being beyond rational suspicion.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/bork.html

Father Geoghan would argree heartily with that last bit.
If he could.
But he might just be getting FLAMED right about now.
The same way Barbara is going to be FLAMED if she didn't get papal consent to dissolve her first marriage.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
(Unless you can screw the enemy.)

So that means that she went to Hollywood when she was twenty-five and she was thirty-four when she left law school.
(But then again, you already know how accurate my math skills are.)

When did Barbara Bracher get married for the first time?
And who the heck did she marry anyway?
And when did she get divorced?
Or did she ever get divorced?
Is that what slowed down the marriage to Ted?
Did they have pre-nups?
Who the heck is Barbara Olson?

The only thing that I have been able to positively establish about her early years is that she holds a Bachelors of Arts from St. Thomas.
She majored in drama.
AND HOW!

Drama is considered to be one of the performance arts.
Therefore, Barbara Olson was once an art student.
Yes, we know that there are cetain parties who hold art students in high disdain.
http://www.antiwar.com/israelfiles2.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo08252003.html

And yes, we are very well aware that Ted Olson has represented the interests of governments other than the one to which he claims to pledge allegiance.
But please recall that Olson LOST that case.
http://dir.salon.com/news/col/cona/2001/02/13/rich/index.html

Jonathan Jay Pollard remains in jail to this very day.
Meanwhile, Ted Olson is slated to become a Justice of the Supreme Court once a member of the current crop either retires or takes a flight on a small plane.

There are many here who very much doubt that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon on the morning of September 11 at 9:30 AM.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp?ID=19



Or was it 9:37 or was it 9:38 or was 9:43 or was it 9;45?
Oh heck.
Whatever.
The point is this: if anyone ever comes up to you and tells you that Barbara Olson did not die a hero, you just call up Salem Alghamdi and he will set that person straight.
He should know.
After all, he hijacked Flight 77.
http://geocities.com/justicepeacedemocracy/Spotlight.html

Rumsfeld: Well, we know there were large numbers, many dozens, in the aircraft that flew at full power, steering directly into the -- between, I think, the first and second floor of the -- opposite the helipad. You've seen it. THERE CANNOT BE ANY SURVIVORS; IT WOULD JUST BE B BEYOND COMPREHENSION.
There are a number of people that they've not identified by name, but identified as being dead, and there are a number of causalities. But the FBI has secured the site. And the -- information takes time to come. People have been lifted out and taken away in ambulances. And the numbers will be calculated, and it will not be a few.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep2001/t09112001_t0911sd.html

[RH]

48. just call up Salem Alghamdi?

Do you mean Salem al-Hamzi?

The Salem al-Hamzi discovered in Yanbou, Saudi Arabia would hardly be able to assist for he had not been out of that country during the previous two years, hardly therefore likely to be the same Salem al-Hamzi who booked a ticket for Flight 77, August 21 2001.

[DulceDecorum]

58. Leaving on a jet plane, don't know when I'll be back again.

Ronnie, can I call you Ronnie?
I am truly NOT sure who you are referring to.
I am talking about the guy who is upset because his photo and particulars are up on the FBI website as a hijacker of Flight 77.
The FBI won't take them down.
The FBI knows what they are doing.
The FBI's lab - or was it the military boys at Dover - have identified his corpse and disposed of it.
You yourself have gone on record here as indicating that the work of these lab technicians is conducted with the utmost diligence and expertise.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID43/5972.html
Therefore if the FBI and and the Dover morticians, plus Rumsfeld, say that the man in the photo is a crispy crittur, then that is what he is.
Dead as a doorknob.

I am saying that the person in the pictures,
that bastard terrorist passenger in seat 5F,
http://www.rense.com/general15/perplexingpuzzle.htm
damn well knows what he did to Barbara Bracher ????? Olson.
And since we know exactly where he is we can make him tell us.
THIS is the fellow that I am talking about.

American Airlines #77
Boeing 757
8:10 a.m. Departed Dulles for Los Angeles
9:39 a.m. Crashed into Pentagon



Salem Alhazmi
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/penttbom/aa77/77.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/27/inv.suspects/

Salem Alhazmi
Possible residences: Fort Lee and Wayne, N.J.
Listed as a passenger in seat 5F. Spent time in Chechnya with Nawaf Alhazmi. Was on a U.S. government watch list, along with his associate Khalid Almihdhar, before the attacks. Newsweek reports the Immigration and Naturalization Service checked its databases and realized he and Al-Midhar entered the United States earlier this year on business visas, giving a Marriott Hotel in New York as their address. The INS also learned the two men had entered the country last year and had listed a Los Angeles hotel chain as their address.
Salem Alhazmi was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the indictment against Zacarias Moussaoui.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_suspects.html

A point which needs clarification: Salem Alhazmi is alive and in Saudi Arabia. The photo published by the FBI is of the living Salem Alhazmi, who has never been to the US. So there was a guy who looked just like him using the name.
http://www.the-movement.com/Hijackers/Agents.htm

Salem Alhazmi
Status: Alive
http://www.trackingthethreat.com/senDetails/Entities/ent25.htm

In a written statement released Thursday, the FBI said the agency DID investigate Sultan Salem Alhazmi at the San Antonio apartments. They CONFIRM he attended the Alpha Tango Flight School. He is no relation to Al-badr Al-Hazmi, who was detained by the FBI in New York after the attacks.
Local FBI officials ADDED THAT ALHAMZI, who residents claim lived at the Spanish Trace apartments until February, IS ALIVE AND CURRENTLY RESIDING IN SAUDI ARABIA.
They stressed he is not the man listed on one of the deadly flights.
http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=kens5&xlb=161&xlc=351772

Salem Alhazmi, 20, is believed to have been from Saudi Arabia. He was among the five hijackers who went to the Arlington Department of Motor Vehicles on 2 August seeking identity cards.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1567815.stm




Oh Barbara, Barbara, wherefore art thou?
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/sept_11/hr2897_ih.htm
http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/02/article_tro.htm
http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/07/article_tro_flight77.htm

IN OTHER NEWS:
Unmanned aerial vehicles or UAV's have been around for decades.
http://publicbroadcasting.net/kpbs/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=535159

In 2001, there were already enough machines aloft—mostly military UAVs passing through controlled airspace on their way to Bosnia or Kosovo—to cause concern among European air-traffic controllers.
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviation/article/0,12543,452052,00.html

Pre-programmed mission: Global Hawks carry out pre-programmed missions and are monitored by pilots from the ground via a satellite link. The plane was the first pilotless aircraft to cross the Pacific Ocean, a 22-hour mission involving just two “clicks” of a mouse from the ground operator.
<snip>
Northrop Grumman is hoping to get similar grants for its armed version of the Global Hawk. But such military grants are just the thin end of the wedge for Dunham: “MY CONCERN IS THAT COMMERICIAL AIRLINES ARE INTERESTED IN APPLICATIONS LIKE THIS TOO.”
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994080

“The pilot keys a microphone, which is relayed to the Global Hawk by satellite links,” Heironimus said. “The computer systems on the Global Hawk relay that voice signal to air traffic controllers on the ground or in another aircraft. YOU WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW IT WAS UNMANNED.” The same thing happens in reverse with air traffic controllers’ voice commands, he said.
http://www.gcn.com/vol1_no1/homeland-security/23269-1.html

In the US, PRIVATE CONTRACTORS maintain the B2 stealth bomber and F-117 stealth fighter and ACTUALLY OPERATE SOME OF THE NEWEST WEAPONS SYSTEMS, such as the Global Hawk and Predator unmanned drones used in Afghanistan and Iraq.
http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=8088

The first production Global Hawk is the eighth air vehicle built. Northrop Grumman produced the first seven under the advanced concept technology demonstration phase of the program.
http://www.af.mil/stories/story.asp?storyID=123005397

[RH]

62. You don't know what you are talking about, do you?

Or do you have something to back up the notion that the "boys at Dover - have identified his corpse and disposed of it"?

The last I heard was that the bodies of the alleged hijackers aboard Flight 77 had not been positively identified (identified only by a process of elimination), nor had the bodies been disposed of.

[DulceDecorum]

68. What are YOU talking about??

The FBI says it already knows the identity of many of those involved - the 19 hijackers, who all died in the suicide attacks, as well as dozens more who may have helped to execute the complex plan.
<snip>
Retracing their movements, gathering clues they left on the way, and ultimately tracking down those who are still alive, is one of the key elements of the investigation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1544758.stm

The hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.
State Department spokesman Frederick Jones said Friday he did not know if the department has contacted the Saudi Arabian government or the hijackers' families about DNA samples.
http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2001/12/15dafbstaffmakepr.html

The remains of the five hijackers have been identified through a process of exclusion, as they did not match DNA samples contributed by family members of all 183 victims who died at the site.
The hijackers' remains will be turned over to the FBI and held as evidence, FBI spokesman Chris Murray said. After the investigation is concluded, the State Department will decide what is to be done with the remains.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/pentagon-unidentified.htm

DNA identifications for Flight 93 victims were sent to the Somerset County Coroner's Office for release. The Department of Defense released identification of Pentagon victims. All but four who worked in the Pentagon were identified. AFIP identified all but one of the passengers of Flight 77.
http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/news/releases/afip.htm

DO the math.

For 45 days following the terrorist attacks, AFDIL employees worked 12- to 20-hour days, 7 days a week, to meet the mission requirements. The laboratory had to expand its operation and borrow instruments and equipment to accommodate the demands of working two major disasters simultaneously. Incredibly, despite the additional workload, the AFDIL staff continued to assist the Army’s Central Identification Laboratory in Honolulu, Hawaii (CILHI), in identifying remains of service members from previous wars.
http://www.afip.org/cgi-bin/whatsnew.cgi/current.html?article=108

But in New York:

The FBI provided the medical examiners' office with DNA profiles of the 10 hijackers, said Ellen Barakove, a spokeswoman for the New York Medical Examiner's office. Examiners "a few days ago" matched two of the profiles to remains collected after the twin towers' collapse, she told CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/27/hijackers.remains/

DNA. The very letters conjure up visions of courtrooms, TV melodrama, and Scottish cloned sheep. But DNA is very real business too. The Biotechnology field is highly competitive with a very demanding pace. Cortec DNA Service Laboratories is an "OLIGO house" which is in the business of manufacturing customized DNA. Their customers include biotech and pharmaceutical companies, academic and commercial research labs, and police and forensic labs, as well.
<snip>
"Although producing synthetic made-to-order DNA is very specific manufacturing, the real difference to the customer was to apply good business practices to streamline the workflow," says Kevin Powick.
www.jbase.com/news/Classic73.pdf

Judging from past history, it must be the Boston FBI that came up with that killer DNA.
But as for the Pentagon bodies, the boys at Dover have disposed of them. The FBI and/or the State department is worring about that refidgerator now.

(CBS) Among the human remains painstakingly sorted from the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crash sites of Sept. 11 are those of nine of the hijackers.
The FBI has held them for months, and no one seems to know what should be done with them. It's a politically and emotionally charged question for the government, which eventually must decide how to dispose of some of the most despised men in American history.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/17/attack/main519033.shtml

[Abe Linkman]

59. Do you have any evidence for this? Aside from your word, of course.

"hardly therefore likely to be the same Salem al-Hamzi who booked a ticket for Flight 77, August 21 2001."

Do you know the gentleman? Did you witness the ticket booking? Do you expect us to believe some link to a news story you may be able to provide?

Or, are you selling synthetic urine?

[RH]

63. Not so synthetic.

Salem Al-Hamzi's ticket was booked through http://www.travelocity.com/

Reports of that sort of thing are available online if only you'd bother to look for them instead of continuously heckling so ignorantly.

See for instance
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2001/nyt091501b.html

"August 21" was my typo. The New York Times reported August 25.

If you wish to dispute the purchase, please take it up with the firms involved.

[Abe Linkman]

67. 99% synthetic

Everyone knows that the Arabs were set up, and repeating the allegation that a ticket "was booked," not only doesn't answer the questions I asked you, it smacks of more synthetic urine.

[Bolo Boffin]

75. Arabs were not set up: Arabs did it.

Everyone knows that the Arabs were set up...

No. You don't have any more knowledge of this than you have of explosives in the WTC. You have only your speculations. You and many like you SUSPECT the Arabs were set up. You lack the evidence that would make this suspicion knowledge.

And don't be bogarting...

[QuietStorm]

83. for argument sake

what is so threatening to you IF arab extremists DID NOT DO IT?

[Bolo Boffin]

84. Threatening?

Why would you assume anything would be threatening to me if Al Qaeda didn't do it?

What's so threatening to you about the idea that they did do it?

[QuietStorm]

85. It is not a matter of threatening

I do not feel there was ever enough evidence for this admin to rush to justice they way they did. They pointed the finger at al qaeda only because it served this war effort you see now. From 9/11 till now there are those that seem to want to deny who is working this effort, both covertly from the intelligence side and on the ground as in troops.

There is a very specific overall strategy and aim guiding this very stupid move on the part of all involved. There was never enough evidence to support that these planes were hijacked by Saudia terrorists. Clearly too many questions remain. Much room for falsification in forensics to what was found on crime scene at the pentagon. Riskus' claims seems to have been maligned now by lies in an effort to support one bogus theory over another that does seem to me to hold more water.

we have niger now which revealed the shadow intelligence of OSP with it's rump unit that no one seems to want to talk about. Provocation was clearly needed as per the PNAC study: Rebuilding America's Defenses (and might I add Mofaz's Plan) which was conveniently provided by 9/11 it being a jumpstart to the invasion in Iraq.

Have you thought much about the overall reconstruction of dominance in that region (and I do not mean from the top of your head but based on the many articles that have now more than clearly outlined who is working with with whom in what capacity toward what mutual end).

There was not and still isn't enough evidence to support the official story all the way around. You go back to the afghan war OBL was virtually on payroll with the ISI a CIA made venture... on and on... 9/11 conjecture did not freeze in space with 9/11... the admin harkens back to Irancontra with some of the very same people that were on detail for poppa on detail with junior...

You can NOT, beyond a shadow of a doubt convince me 9/11 WAS NOT ORCHESTRATED FROM WITHIN . I have no idea why anyone would fight the still mounting evidence that supports the potential of a self attack with outside foreign allies on board.

[DulceDecorum]

89. Afghans are NOT Arabs

But they caught HELL for this and still do.

What did the Afghans - who were being victimised by the Taliban - have to do with any of this stuff?

[QuietStorm]

91. TWO WORDS

caspian consortium, which mind you afghanistan has not benefited from.

[RH]

77. ...

The booking of a ticket was a statement of fact.

If anything that does not happen to suit your prejudice you will simply choose to disbelieve, then why put the questions?

I was not involved.

If you wish to dispute the evidence as given by others, take it up with them

For as far as I am concerned you are a complete waste of time.

:nuke:

[DulceDecorum]

90. Get Shorty

Chili: It's basically about a guy who owes a Shylock $15,000 and he's about three weeks over on the vig--that's the interest you have to pay. . . . He's scared. He doesn't know any better, he leaves town. So Leo gets on a plane but the plane sits there--doesn't move. They announce over the PA system some kind of mechanical problem, they'll be there maybe an hour. . . . So the guy's nervous . . . he gets off the plane and goes into the cocktail lounge and starts throwing them down one after another. As a matter of fact, he's still in the lounge when the plane crashes on take-off. . . . Right now he knows his luck has changed. If everyone thinks he's dead he won't have to pay back the 15 or what he owes on the vig. The people from the airline . . . offer a settlement.

Harry: . . . He gets his wife to cash the check and he takes off for Vegas with the dough. He gets there . . . and she never hears from him again. . . . He runs the 300 grand up to half a million but it's driving the guy nuts because he's winning and he can't tell anyone who he is.

Chili: . . . He comes to L.A. I don't know what happens after that.

http://www.dramatica.com/story/film_reviews/reviews/Short_Sight.html

Why, thank you RH, coming from you, that IS a compliment.

[cherryperry]

107. Once again, RH is right on: thank you again! n/t

[DulceDecorum]

70. And I have never heard of a broken engagement

and there is no such word as "jilt."

There concept of "no show" does not exist.

No, never, not at all.
Everything went according to plan because we live in Perfect.

[cherryperry]

106. Would you please

state in your own words:

1. What was Barbara's maiden name;

2. To whom was she married the first time;

Thank you!

[QuietStorm]

43. umm

And the airplanes landing at Reagan National airport always symbolized the order that can be brought to the world by human intuition and by technology. In fact, I have often stopped in the park just north of Reagan National to watch in amazement as plane after plane descends and lands just where it is supposed to. Each plane, traveling at the same speed as the last, on the same path, landing on the same runway as the last got out of the way demonstrated, to me, the genius of human ability, of things working properly.

------

so that plane witnessed along I395 by the memorial street exit WAS headed on path to land at RRNA. This plane did not hit the pentagon. this plane probably did crash land (perhaps not explode).

timing calculations are needed on this plane what time witnesses saw it... the initial report in the AAAR would indicated it crashed first. with the pentagon hit coming second.

[RH]

49. plane witnessed along I395 WAS headed on path to land?

No
When seen over Columbia Pike from Interstate 395 it was nowhere near to any legitimate flight path, nor was it heading towards the airport

[WoodrowFan]

57. Ignore Them

This is just a bunch of neo-nazi denial of the facts. It's no accident that far RW sites are stirrign this up, the end result is they end up blaming the Jews (see American Free Press on line)

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WoodrowFan]

61. read the rules please

personal attackes such as "get stuffed" are a no-no. I did alert the mods to my own posts, just in case.

The simple fact is, a lot of this bogus 9/11 research is promoted by actual reallife neo-nazi sites. See http://www.americanfreepress.net/9-11/9-11.html for one.


Anti-Kazaric?? Isn't that also a canard of the Holocaust Deniers, that the Jews are not REALLY Jews, but Khazic or some such??



I'm not sure what you meant by the rest of the post. I wasn't defending the actions of Israel in the occupied territories or Pollard (?!!?)

And for the record, I'm Presbyterian.

[QuietStorm]

64. these alternative theories

have very little to do with neo nazi's or the Jews... they are alternative theories because this present cabal that does exhibit it's fair share of neo nazi undertones, might I add, has concocted an official story with way too many holes in it's not too well held facade. The eastman theory is much more in keeping with logic than the story which American's were told by this shadow government we have working outside of the loop of any reasonable checks and balances.

To suggest all who follow the logic of alternative scenarios rather than what we call the "official story" are neo nazi's or are anti-semitic is stretching it a bit don't you think? Just because you might not follow the logic of the alternative theories that ARE sound or as sound as the "official story" which instead you find easier to believe does not give credence to your statement that people that entertain the alternative theories are anti-semitic.

The official story itself is relatively unsubstantiated and riddled with holes, as per one of the best timelines available on 9/11 at cooperativeresearch.org. Especially if you consider what looks to be the doctoring of the series of photos from the pentagon security camera, that the government boys never stated was NOT from the pentagon camera, but rather had a spokewoman state she could not verify whether or not they came from the pentagon camera in an effort to cover their asses by what is commonly referred to as plausibility deniability.

The official statement was not an OUTRIGHT denial that those photos, which the American public was shown to substantiate that the boeing hit the pentagon. Not only does it NOT substantiate that, it also seems to have been very convincingly outted as doctored and potentially faked altogether. As a matter of fact even the PR people are now admitting the CRAFT that was originally pointed out as THE BOEING does in fact not hold up as representative. Althought four to six months ago these very same authorities were insisting that the craft which few could make out WAS IN FACT THE BOEING. If you do not feel anything is FISHY with the official story that is your freedom. To make blanket accusations, the likes of which you make here, is a whole other kettle of fish.

In light of this you would think the Pentagon would have more convincingly DENIED the photos came from their camera. Instead what we have here is spin doctors and hired PR people who have relegated all of the alternative theories to the garbage heap of conspiracy theory. You going even further as to suggest that the lot of them render those that entertain them antisemitic. That is a new and interesting twist.

I would be interested to see if you can trace the time line found at www.cooperativeresearch.org to a neo nazi group. Or are your comments just meant to divert reasonable discussion in an attempt to flame bait the participants into defending what does not need to be defended?

[Bolo Boffin]

73. Hired PR guys?

What evidence do you have that ANYBODY is hired to be here, other than your own speculation? Just because you think something is reasonable, doesn't mean that it is actual.

To make blanket accusations, the likes of which you make here, is a whole other kettle of fish.

Condemned by your own words.

[DulceDecorum]

94. Actually if they were hired

they might actually be some good at what they do.
This lot couldn't convince a tadpole to turn into a frog.

Now look:
I just got them off the hook as being paid shills.
You'd think they'd be grateful.
And you would be wrong.

Isn't it cute how the second you say "PR flack" they instantly jump out spewing insults while the rest of us are still wondering who is the party being referred to.

[cherryperry]

110. cabal? LOL n/t

[DulceDecorum]

71. And you can now say

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

And if you wish to continue discussing anything other than
9:11, Military Affairs, and Terrorism
PLEASE go to another forum.

Nobody here cares about your religion, or lack thereof.
Please take a good hard look at the name of this thread and refrain from from making incidentary accusations.

[Bolo Boffin]

74. Ask Tony

http://www.tonyshoes.com/ask-tony-shoe-fitting.html

Tony believes that if you follow these 10 points of shoe fitting your chances of obtaining a "good fit" are increased and you will will find a pair of shoes that not only fit well, but wear well and are comfortable.

10 Points of fitting

1. Shoe Length

* 3/8" to 1/2" between longest toe and end of shoe
* Space for fourth and fifth toes

2. Heel-to-ball (Arch Length)

* Space for fourth and fifth toes

3. Ball-to-toe

* Shoe is not too long or too short from ball to end of toes

4. Heel-to-Outer-Ball

* Fifth metatarsal (outer-ball joint) fit into outer "pocket" of the shoe just like inner ball joint fits into pocket

5. Ball Width and Vamp Room

* Adequate space across vamp of the shoe
* Width of insole same as width of foot

6. Heel Fit

* Not too tight or too loose; "snug fit"
* Top of counter does not "cut into" heel tendon
* Inside and outside ankle bones do not rub a against top line of shoe

7.  Top Line

* Fits snuggly to sides of the foot

8. Instep or Waist

* With slip-ons and bots; it's important that shoes not too tight over the instep, but they must be snug enough to hold the shoe on the foot.

9.  Arch Fit

* Shoe hugs closely to the foot on the inside of the shoe under the longitudinal arch

10.  Tread

* Shoe fits securely, must feel balanced and stable in order to walk comfortably


:loveya: O8)

[DulceDecorum]

92. I have one word for you:

Mush.

And now
Back to Barbara Olson.

Whose got John Edwards' number?
And don't say Miss Cleo.

What did they do with the luggage on Flight 77?
Where is Barbara's stuff?

[cherryperry]

111. yes, well, boloboffin:

:toast: :loveya:

[cherryperry]

109. Again, WoodrowFan:

I love it when people want to know why Anti-Semitism is sometimes connected to being Anti-Israel. If one brings up anything Pro-Jewish, they are automatically labelled as Pro-Israel and apparently now Pro-Pollard. Hey, look, we're 2, we're 2, yes we're 2 stereotypes in one: (1) money-grubbing disgusting greedy pigs deserving of pograms, dispersion and holocaust (which, of course, never happened anyway) AND (2) commie-pinko activists for civil rights, Leninists, Trotskyites, union-organizer pigs deserving of pograms, despersion and holocaust (which, of course, never happened anyway. I do believe I fall closer to stereotype #2, but, just like any other group of people, we are no more 2 stereotypes than any other.

Jew Haters: GET OVER IT ALREADY!

[DulceDecorum]

88. What's with

"the neo-nazi denials"
How DARE you call us neo-nazis?
And who said anything about the Jews?

This thread is about Barbara Olson who happened to be a nice CATHOLIC girl.

[DulceDecorum]

98. NEW THREAD

please continue the discussion about BARBARA OLSON on this new thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=2062

The name of the thread is
Post your Barbara Olson comments here: Part 2.

[dicknbush]

102. BARBARA OLSON R.I.P.*

R ammed

I nto

P entagon.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.