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Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:20 AM
Original message
Seven alleged hijackers were llegally in the US
Edited on Sat Aug-26-06 09:21 AM by Andre II
Re-reading John Doe IIs Tracking the alleged hijackers and their doubles
http://www.team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewf...
I came across this:

No less than seven alleged hijackers were at one point illegally in the US:

Ziad Jarrah
(violated his immigration status as a tourist by going straight to a ful-time flight school when entering the US on June 27, 2000)
Hani Hanjour (since December 8, 2000.)
Hanjour didnt attend the school he was admitted to. Therefore his student visa wasnt valid.
Mohamed Atta (between December 2, 2000 January 10, 2001).
Atta even left the US without valid visa visa assuring that he can re-enter the country
Marwan Al-Shehhi (Mid-December 2000 January 18, 2001.)
Al Shehhi even left the US without having a valid visa assuring that he can re-enter the country.
Satam Al Suqami (since May 21, 2001)
Nawaf Alhazmi (since August 2001)
Khalid Almihdhar (since August 27, 2001)

Why didnt the alleged hijackers bother about being legally in the US?
Why did they even risk to leave the country without being sure to be able to return?
Why were they always lucky doing so?

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medienanalyse Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Even more funny
why did they risk to buy ticets under their allegedly real name ? Especially since they were so kean to get new identities some days before 9/11 ? Which was provided to them in VA just in the very neighbourhodd of the CIA headquarter BTW.
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Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, indeed
and why do only very few people actully care about questions concerning the identity of the alleged hijackers?
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FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. CT maybe because
they know they didn't do it.
Just patsies and a side issue.


OCT followers should scratch their head over this
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Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hi and welcome to DU
Sorry I strongly disagree with you:
"a side issue"??
If proving that patsies were used and doubles at work is a side issue
though it proves inside job
what the heck then is the real issue?

Much too many people don't care that with very simple means and only relying on MSM and official documents
one can decontruct the official story and identities and even prove inside job.
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FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Hi
In my opinion they have to look at people who said they had to train them,
embassy heads who had to let them go because they were gov agents taking part in a drill etc.
Who was the FBI guy who said he warned 70 times and was stopped?


It's a side issue that they had two or three identities. Was it identity theft or did they have two of them.
Many say the people turning up alive could have been victims of ID theft.

Main issues are for me "why", "who", "what" to do to prevent another one.

It's an issue for those, who belive in the Al Qaeda "Islamofascist" myth,
Cocaine Atta going to Las Vegas strip clubs is a good thing to shatter the muslim myth. Or the mentally ill Massoui.

Also how Able-Danger controlled the terrorist until 911 is an interesting issue.
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Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-04-06 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. You've misunderstood me
I'd agree that if the so called hijackers simply used several identities it would be a side issue (although the question is still VERY interesting why the FBI does neither bother to figure out their real identity nor to identify them positvely) but what I'm talking about is the fact that these alleged hijackers had doubles meaning Atta being in two different places at the same time.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

This is impossible to explain by simple pointing out to the use of several identities (as long as the don't believe in bilocation).
Please let me add that the September 7 event is by far not the only evidence of Atta having a double and Atta is by far not the only case of alleged hijackers having a double.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Therefore questioning the identity of the alleged hijackers is a smoking gun.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

And it is only based on MSM sources and official documents.
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. It's a standard OTC tactic.if they can't handle a question they ignore it.

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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. What's wrong with picking and choosing what you respond to?
This isn't our job, you know (regardless of any speculation to the contrary). Just as many posters here champion their pet hypotheses we "OCTers" all have areas of interest regarding September 11th. Why is it wrong to spend our time as we wish, examining those areas, instead of looking at things that either don't interest us or are areas where we have limited knowledge?
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Rubbish.

John Doe II 's information regarding doubles is well documented and easily accessible.

You don't tackle the subject because you can't handle it.

Period.

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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's a wonderful attitude.
Again - I care about some things more than others, so I'm going to spend more time on those. I am not interested in the doubles. I am not "tackling" it because of that - not because I can't "handle" it (whatever that means) and no amount of goading from you will change that.
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seatnineb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-04-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. It's too tough for you..we all know it...
These are the anomolies that you stay away from...not because you are not interested but because you can't handle it......



Only Hani Hanjour, believed to have been the hijacker who piloted Flight 77, passed through Dulles security that morning WITHOUT BEING SUBJECTED TO A SECONDARY SECURITY CHECK, according to the video."



http://apnews.excite.com/article/20040722/D83VUFI00.htm ...



Strange.....because Hanjour #2:




.... needed a second security check before he passed through........


This person goes through the metal detection machine and IT STARTS BUZZING........."
THEY CALL THE PERSON OUT SO THEY CAN DO THE HAND SEARCH.Just as the person was BEGINNING to do that, a pretty woman walks by and the guard looks at her and waves the guy on.Well,that person happened to be Hani Hanjour,and he basically had box cutters and razor blades in his pockets."


Vincent Cannistraro(Ex-C.I.A).

The above excerpt can be found in:
Masterminds Of Terror.
By Nick Fielding And Yosri Fouda.
Published By Mainstream Publishing.
Page 143.


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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. Enforcement was, and still is, very difficult
That is why it is so difficult to get a visa.

There has been a crack-down on students since 911. If the student does not go to school, the university informs ICE, and the student is picked up.

Visitors may be almost impossible to crack down on. They have never picked up people solely because they overstayed a visitor's visa. Granted the person cannot now leave and re-enter, so they are "trapped" in the US, because if they do leave, they'll never be allowed back in. The overstay cancels the visa (which otherwise would have been good for more entries) and to get another one they would have to lie and say they didn't overstay; to get another one they must somehow document their return in time.

The system we have thus ridiculously encourages people who have overstayed to just stay put; the longer they are in the US, the more likely something can happen which can regularize their status (they marry a US citizen, mostly). Or a form of "amnesty" which makes their lawful admission possible under the particular law in question.

So that the hijackers might have overstayed a visitor's visa and not been picked up is not a surprise. It is likely they would have been familiar with the way things were (being aliens) and in fact knew they were less likely to get picked up than if they did something to request and extension and had it denied. To this day, one who applies for something and has it denied is more likely to experience enforcement than one who just never approaches the INS (now CIS).

Immigration controls are not the way to prevent terrorist attacks. It is like taking aspirin to cure a brain tumor. Intelligence is a much better approach. The CIA had reports of these people going to a meeting in Yemen, if they could have prevented the attack, that would have been why, because that was what gave them the information that would have told them who was going to do it. Being fussy over every single immigrant is looking for a needle in a haystack. Zeroing in on who is really planning something has a much better chance of heading off a planned attack.



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medienanalyse Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. BB
>>>>So that the hijackers >>>
(Whom are you talking about ? Evidence ?)



>>>might have overstayed
>>>is not a surprise.
>>>It is likely
>>>they would have been
>>>they were less likely
>>>if they did something
>>> is more likely

The bait of only some sentences. This is phrasing OCT. Phantasy, “theory”.

Mohammed Atta got two visa in one day at the same point. That is fact. See INS Report. Just to distinguish fact from BB (Bushist Blabber)
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I am just talking about the system in general
Don't be so sensitive. I'm not a supporter of Chimpy.

The issue way why weren't the overstaying hijackers picked up and the answer is because business as usual (including after 911) makes it impossible to pick them all up and that would have been true under the Clinton administration.

Intelligence is more useful than relying solely on immigration controls, is my point.

The story about Atta getting the extension has been debunked. He had gotten the extension 6 months earlier, and the mail received after 911 was just bureaucratic wonkiness. There was some sort of notification requirement that an INS employee took to mean they had to mail redundant notices.

But Atta was here "legally" (barring that if his intent had been revealed he would not have been eligible for any visa or status, but obviously he would lie by omission on that) up to and including the very day of the attacks.

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medienanalyse Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. No. You am just talking about fairy tales in general
it is pure theory to talk about a "system" which foreigners know differently.

And I am talking about two (2) visa Atta obtained on Jan.10th 2001 according to the INS report Not about visa extensions.

BTW able dangers notice a "visa extension" into the past: an Atta who was present when he not yet entered the states but lived in Germany.

I am talking facts, not theories. Do you need the visa numbers ? O can provide them. You do not know the INS report ? I have the link. And a copy for sure, because evidence is vanishing day by day.
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Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Illegally
"But Atta was here "legally" (barring that if his intent had been revealed he would not have been eligible for any visa or status, but obviously he would lie by omission on that) up to and including the very day of the attacks."

No, no and no!
That's the whole reason for this thread.

The Immigration and Naturalization Service inspectors who interviewed Atta failed to notice that he had overstayed his visa by 32 days during a prior trip to the United States.
http://web.archive.org/web/20011206230549/http://www.mi...
http://web.archive.org/web/20010927120728/http://www.la...


Nonetheless Atta left the US risking that he wouldn't be allowed to re-enter the country.

For further info check Atta's timeline on Team8+
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Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-22-07 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
17. Kick
:kick:
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Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
18. Wow, Jarrah was so lucky!
Not a very clever idea to drive with 90 mph in a 65 mph zone only two days before 9/11 without having a legal US visa ....
http://www.sptimes.com/News/091301/Worldandnation/FBI_s...

Lucky Ziad, that as in the case with Atta the police didn't do a real control but only gave a speeding ticket ....
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