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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 06:00 PM
Original message
Who Killed John O'Neill Summary
Who Killed John O'Neill 9/11 investigation summary:
  • Part I:
  • Part II:
  • Part III:

    This is the summary of the three part series on Who Killed John O'Neill

    Who Killed John O'Neill

    Who needs a plane?
    An Updated MIHOP

    Who did 9/11? A question we all want to know answers to.
    Meet the CIA of the 21st century. Privatized, independent and hidden from view.
    • AIG as Money Laundering Inc.
    • Marsh Crisis Consultancy as Terrorism Inc with Osama bin Laden played by Paul Bremer
    • Kroll as the privatized CIA Inc.
    • al-Cokeda as the drug dealers in the flight schools who are later called terrorists in the OCT.

    • Learn how they all work together.
    • Learn how they make fortunes on 9/11 with insider trading.
    • Learn how sophisticated psyops and black ops is.

    • Learn what the government and the OCTers don't want you to know


    The video
    Ty Rauber made it and it has one actor playing all the parts -a conspiracy theorist, a paranoid "they're after us" type, an OCTer, a philospher and they are all discussing 911-it's kind of like this forum. He ties Kroll, CIA, AIG together, speculated that Kroll is a sort of privatized CIA, running on drug money but able to do what the CIA can't because they aren't allowed. Some of this relates to the Hopsicker story.

    Why are these Kroll types anti terrorism experts; where do they get the information? Then they show how people move between these corporations and CIA . Doesn't spend a lot of time on the hows and why's of the actual day, more about drugs insurance companies/ CIA and the piece de resistance - what Al Qaeda really is and what Mohammed Atta's function was, his opinion will make a lot of sense as to Atta's behavior.

    This is all for the same video, I gave different links in case some didn't work:

    Movie Downloads:


    Iran-Contra II

    How the 9/11 flight schools were being used for narcotics trafficking to finance black operations like 9/11 which was covered up by labeling the drug dealers, terrorists. The drug import just continued after 9/11 as if nothing happened and were involved in the biggest cocaine shipment ever...

    Mohammed Atta's girlfriend

    Learn about drug planes being used also for illegal CIA rendition, the (hidden) owner of the flight school committing insider trading on 9/11, scams with non-existing companies which miraculously produce DC-9s, and much more...

    In dedication of the top anti-terrorism expert of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, John O'Neill


    American International Group = Maurice "Hank" Greenberg
    Marsh & McLennan = Jeffrey Greenberg
    Ace = Evan Greenberg
    Bear Stearns = Alan Greenberg

    Kroll always had AIG as shareholder and is currently part of Marsh.
    Greenberg-Traurig is now an "independent" law firm, but was started by Maurice.

    Possible teams for 9/11:

    October 11, 2001 Marsh established specialized terrorism team called Marsh Crisis Consultancy
    The following teams were added to it: Control Risks Group, a British ex-SAS team and Versar, bio-terrorism and homeland defense team. The same group could have known each other from 9/11.

    Kroll has military team in their company and merged with Armor Holdings on August 23rd thus adding Defence Systems Limited, another Private Military Corporation, to their operations, an ex-KGB team called Alpha Firm was earlier acquired by Defence Systems Limited.

    That makes at least four teams which could have been used on 9/11.
    Additional teams from the military could have been used as well.

    Also Mass Electric Construction Co, a company specializing in wiring, was on the 84th floor of WTC2.

    They had the means to do this.
  • Marsh had full control on WTC1 where they occupied all floors.
  • Marsh had the top floor of the WTC2 "impact" and could have worked their way down, however the main occupant was Fuji bank with whom AIG did a lot of work and also featured in Iran-Contra and 78th floor had Baseline Financial who also did business with Rupert Murdoch.
  • WTC7 contained a CIA office and Kroll and AIG are very closely related to the CIA and it is very likely that Kroll is the privatized version of the CIA
  • The Pentagon was of course under their own control.

    They had the opportunity to do this.

  • AIG/Kroll/Marsh are closely connected to the Bush administration, to Henry Kissinger.
  • AIG/Kroll/Marsh are also closely related to the Intelligence Community.
  • AIG/Kroll/Marsh capitalized on 9/11 and it was good for their business.
  • AIG was laundering drug money for al-Cokeda.
  • AIG was involved in the oil and gas line to Afghanistan
  • There is reason to believe that the Taliban either cut back on the drug trade or that they went into business for themselves. Either way the flow of heroin from Afghanistan was drastically limited.
  • Greenberg and Khasshogi had a business relation and benefited for the narcotics from Afghanistan and had interest in the oil and gas line as well
  • The Greenberg family and the Bush family are partners in fraud.
  • Greenberg-Traurig played a major role in both the Election Fraud 2000, Election Fraud 2004 and is the personal law firm for Jeb Bush.
  • The Office of Emergency Management was needed according to Rudolph Giuliani, so it could have been used for other purposes.

    They had motive to do this.

    There are main objectives to 9/11 and additional subgoals persuded that day. The main objectives are:
    1. Enabling the war in Afghanistan for oil and drugs.
    2. Bush administration gets an enormous popularity gain.
    3. Enabling Homeland security.
    4. Passing the Patriot Act.
    5. Massive insurance fraud.
    6. The missing trillions of the Pentagon.
    7. Added later: War in Iraq (not part of the original plan)

    Sub goals:
    1. Elimination of competitors: Better position for Silverstream and Marsh in risk management by inviting all experts over the whole world to Windows of the World and eliminating some competitors in WTC.
    2. Downsizing of Cantor/eSpeed.
    3. Solve some "minor" problems for companies either in WTC or by inside trading.
    4. Massive destruction of evidence in the Enron scandal, price inflation fraud for Silverstream, WorldCom, Global Crossing and many other scandals.
    5. Hiding Pentagon projects like Global Hawk and TrailBlazer

    9/11 and Iran-Contra
    There are many similarities between 9/11 and Iran-Contra. One could even say that the same blue print was used and the terror event added as a quick justification of their goals

    Objectives of Iran-Contra:
    1. October Surprise: President Ronald Reagan and Vice President George H.W. Bush
    2. Guerrilla warfare in Central and South America
    3. A war between Iraq and Iran

    Objectives of 9/11:
    1. Butterfly ballots, Vote spoilage, Greenberg-Traurig: President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard Cheney
    2. A war with Afghanistan
    3. Guerrilla warfare in Venezuela and Lebanon?

    Bonuses (W. tries to double H.W.)
    4. A war with Iraq
    Not in the original plan, however on September 12, 2001, George W. Bush told Richard A. Clarke: "Go back over everything, everything. See if Saddam did this. See if he's linked in any way"
    This is the probably reason why Germany, France and Canada bailed out, because they had given approval for Afghanistan and at least Germany played a part in the Venice scheme.

    5. If you can rig one election, might as well take the next one also.
    6. Iran? (option or coming soon...)

    Why the Pentagon had to be included as well

    By Minstrel Boy

    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy.
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
    I can't help it if I'm lucky. - Bob Dylan

    (...) At least among those with a mind for such things, it's fairly well- remembered that on September 10, 2001, Donald Rumsfeld made the shocking announcement that the Pentagon "couldn't track" $2.3 trillion of its transactions. "Iroquois" observes, "What's interesting to me is that he made his press release on a Monday. In DC, I always see bad news given on a Friday, usually late in the afternoon on Friday. The exception, of course, would be when someone happens to know that there is a far bigger story coming out."

    And we know that Flight 77, allegedly piloted by an incompetent, made an aerobatic, spiralling descent over Washington, effecting a 270-degree turn to strike the Pentagon from a western approach at ground level. The side struck was the only one with an exterior wall hardened against attack, and was relatively empty while renovation continued. (...)

    Another reason may be to hide the significant costs of 9/11, because the missing trillions are pretty much the norm.

    WTC building insurance and ownership
    What were the 3 companies who insured the WTC?

    AIG, Marsh and ACE. All run by Greenbergs at the time.

    They then sold stakes of the original contract to their competition, a process called reinsuring. Once the towers came down, the reinsurers got caught holding the bag.

    Who mortgaged the WTC? The Blackstone Group, headed by Peter J. Peterson, current head of the CFR. The Blackstone Group bought into Kroll in 1993 at the same time as AIG took majority control. Henry Kissinger sits on the board of the Blackstone Group.

    On July 24, 2001, 6 weeks prior to 9/11 Silverstein took control of the lease of all the WTC buildings following the Port Authority decision on April 26. Silverstein owned all the buildings. Later he wanted to collect twice on $3.6 billion of policies because it were two seperate events. Only ACE, XL Reach - strategic partners of AIG and currently owned by AIG - included a WilProp in their clauses, so Silverstein "only" got $5 billion.

    Larry Silverstein

    Larry "Pull It" Silverstein

    "I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

    - World Trade Center lease holder, Larry Silverstein, commenting on the collapse of Building 7 in the PBS documentary "America Rebuilds" that aired in September of 2002.

    Or watch a video clip of them here:
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 06:01 PM
    Response to Original message
    1. 9/11 hypothesis
    Edited on Sat Jul-15-06 06:26 PM by DrDebug
    9/11 hypothesis
    In 1986 Paul Bremer was appointed Ambassador-at-Large for Counterterrorism and started to develop all kinds of plans with possible terrorists events. Even though the plans appear to have been created to prevent terrorism there is also the likelyhood that they were created for false flag terrorist events. Paul Bremer has extensive connections to the neo-conversatives, Henry Kissinger and in 1999 he becomes chairman of the National Commission on Terrorism and also joins the board of directors at Marsh Inc.

    He describes his time at National Commission on Terrorism as follows in an interview at the Heritage foundation (U.S. front for the international intelligence agency Le Cercle): "catastrophic terrorism ... in the event of a catastrophic attack ... tens of thousands of casualties, where the American people are going to be screaming for a response, that a President is going to want to consider using the military in some fashion ... the example we use is Pearl Harbor ..." Since Paul Bremer has made many similar remarks, there is reason to assume that he was one of the chief architects of 9/11.

    Jerome Hauer worked in 1999 at the SAIC's Center for Counterterrorism Technology and Analysis. One of his task was the design of the Office of Emergency Management, an emergency command center, which Rudy Giuliani wanted to have build on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center (WTC7). Even though everybody around Rudy Giuliani and Jerome Hauer ridiculed the "bunker" on the 23rd floor, the decision was made to build it.

    Since this office has never been used for its intented purpose and a different command center was established and used at Pier 92, there is reason to believe that the Office of Emergency Management was used to coordinate the World Trade Center attacks since it could withstand anything and had a perfect view on both the towers and the area around World Trade Center. There is no better place and safer place to coordinate World Trade Center than the Office of Emergency Management.

    Later Jerome Hauer started to work for Kroll, a company closely linked to Marsh and at present a subsidiary. Kroll has been named by at least governments as a CIA front organization or a privatized CIA.

    The most vital part in the 9/11 plan was getting the correct government. There are very close links between the Greenberg family (AIG, Kroll, Marsh etc.) and the Bush family and they have participated in companies like Harken Energy, Texas Rangers and Trilateral Investments among others. The Greenbergs had their own law firm called Greenberg-Traurig, currently independent but probably still has very close links.

    Greenberg-Traurig represents Governor Jeb Bush and has close links to Antonin Scalia, Jack Abramoff and they represented George W. Bush in the Bush-Gore 2000 Florida election vote recount which was vital in stopping the recount.

    Adnan Khashoggi is believed to be the hidden owner of Huffman Aviation and playing a major role behind the scenes in al-Cokeda, the drug running part of the intelligence community to finance black operations. Florida election official Theresa LePore was a private stewardess of Khashoggis private plane. Theresa LePore is the mastermind behind the butterfly ballot which presumably lead to thousands of votes from Al Gore to go to Pat Buchanan.

    ChoicePoint, the company which purged the Democratic posters from the voter role, wanted to merge with Kroll, however negotiations failed for unknown reasons. They were used in 9/11 as well for the identification of the victims and were at the scene almost instantly.

    One of the major goals of 9/11 was enabling the war in Afghanistan. The planning of the war had started in 2000 and was related to both an oil and gas pipeline through Afghanistan and a diminished heroin flow. Officially the restrict opium trade was blamed on the Taliban's strict interpretation of Islamic Shari. There are reasons to believe that Afghanistan didn't supply al-Cokeda any more and wanted to go into business for themselves. The Greenberg family and Adnan Khashoggi were also involved in both the oil and gas line in Afghanistan and the heroin from Afghanistan.

    The United States started secret negotiations in 2001 with Afghanistan to ensure the flow of heroin and for the development of an oil and gas pipeline through Afghanistan. The secret negotiations failed. In the summer of 2001 officials threatened war against Afghanistan and in July it was reported that if military action would take place, it would take place before the snows started falling in Afghanistan, by the middle of October at the latest.

    A lot of mergers and last moment preparations were taken place in New York. On July 24, 2001, 6 weeks prior to 9/11 Silverstein took control of the lease of all the WTC buildings following the Port Authority decision on April 26. Marvin Pierce Bush makes sure that he is no longer connected to the security of the World Trade Center.

    Kroll merged with Armor Holdings thus adding two more specialized teams to their company: Defence Systems Limited, a British Private Military Contractor who protects the British Queen among others and Alpha Firm, the former top-KGB team during the cold war. With that merger they had at least four teams in their company and probably the best teams as well. AIG international reinsured the WTC buildings and made sure that their competitors got most of the reinsurance.

    Louis Freeh, the director of the FBI at the time, is more or less forced out of his position and the same is done with John O'Neill, the former top anti-terrorist specialist, who gets offered a job at the World Trade Center security.

    A lot of companies move into the World Trade Center who have some scandals and some other companies move out of the World Trade Center at the last moment.

    Three weeks prior to 9/11 inside trading with put-options starts and is mainly focused on American Airlines, United Airlines, Marsh and numerous insurance agencies and companies with offices in the World Trade Center. From Thursday before 9/11 it reaches historic levels and is a global event.

    No investigation into inside trading is made even though it is solid evidence for 9/11 preknowledge. A Canadian list of 38 companies is published and lists many companies inside the World Trade Center, defense contractors, almost all major airlines and several other companies with connections to either AIG or Citigroup (WTC7 was mainly occupied by Salomon Smith Barney who is a part of Citigroup. Deutsche Bank was the biggest inside trader of the all and that is maybe because the US CEO, "Buzzy" Krongard, is also the #3 man at the CIA, it would have been the intelligence community itself who used their own bank because they would never say who was doing it.

    Mass. Electric Construction, a wire specialist, is discovered on the 84th floor of WTC2 - who is not listed on any official tenant listing and never mentions that they were there - and there are about 200 electric engineers working in the World Trade Center around the time. The Pentagon construction was performed by AMEC. Both AMEC and Tully Construction play a major role in the clean up of Ground Zero and both have specialized Controlled Demolition companies. No links to AIG have been discovered upto now.

    Several war games were being played during 9/11 including one by Mr. Fulton and his CIA team who were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building.

    The main team at WTC would have comprised of Kroll and Marsh and since those companies have a privatized CIA inside, all kinds of spooks could have been added to the mix. The same could be true for Raytheon which also has an overlap, however EVERYTHING was probably privatized, so no government agencies, since that would endanger deniability.

    9/11 started at WTC1, because that was on Marsh's own territory and if that failed, it could be called a weird accident and that's it. Rudy Giulani and all the others establish an emergency center at Pier 92.

    In Rudy's own words for the 9/11 Commission: "The reason Pier 92 was selected as a command center was because on the next day, on September 12, Pier 92 was going to have a drill, it had hundreds of people here, from FEMA, from the Federal Government, from the State, from the State Emergency Management Office, and they were getting ready for a drill for biochemical attack. So that was gonna be the place they were going to have the drill. The equipment was already there, so we were able to establish a command center there, within three days, that was two and a half to three times bigger than the command center that we had lost at 7 World Trade Center."

    The next attacks were at WTC2 and the Pentagon since both were more difficult. Because the "impacts" on both WTC1 and WTC2 were in control of the Greenberg family especially WTC1 which was under full control by Marsh, there is the question whether planes are necessary. So I prefer the no-plane option, however they could have installed a plane magnet or a homing beacon at their offices to ensure a perfect hit (personally I think that there never were any planes). The 767/757 scenario is very unlike. Either there were no planes or it were Global Hawk-like missile with a specific homing beacon in WTC/ Pentagon.

    WTC1 and WTC2 were destroyed with a Controlled Demolition to hide any evidence and after the whole game had been played WTC7 was pulled also because it contained the command center for the attacks.

    Rudi Giulani and his team immediately set out to ship off all the debris without any investigation. The Bush administration immediately blaims al-Qaeda for the attacks and wants to implicate Saddam Hussein as well for another war in Iraq. The attack is blamed on the drug dealers working for their own organizations since they were Arabs and could be used as Muslim extremists. The Bush administration had no intention of investigating 9/11 since any investigation could turn up wrong doing.

    The bin Laden family and all the other Saudis were the only people allowed to fly out of the United States.

    Edwin Meese and Paul Bremer co-chaired the Heritage Foundation's Homeland Security Task Force, which created a blueprint for the Department of Homeland Security and a company associated with Paul Bremer offering privatized Homeland Security already registered the required domain prior to 9/11. The Bush administration immediately approves of their plans.

    The United States with support from many more nations, who are often featured in 9/11 as well, invaded Afghanistan on October 7, 2001 as part of its War on Terra campaign. It should be noted that it is completely impossible to launch a full scale war with extremely detailed plans on such a short notice. In 2002, Opium production was back to a pre-war level of 3,400 tons and the construction of the oil and gas pipeline had started.

    Because of tremendous pressure to launch an investigation into 9/11, a commission headed by Henry Kissinger - a name featured in 9/11 as well - was proposed, however nobody trusts a guy for whom a case for Crimes against Humanity exists and who can't leave the United States anymore.

    The Kean Commission was used instead with close links to Condi Rice, Warren Buffett and Fiduciary Trust (one of the companies in WTC2). The commission piles lie upon lie and Dr. David Ray Griffin has found 115 lies. Elias Davidsson has demonstrated with mathematical techniques that the official acccount on 9/11 is simply not true based on a limited of lies. Applying David Griffin's research would result in a probability of correctness which is astronomically small.

    On March 20, 2003 a war against Iraq was launched based on the 9/11 attacks without any evidence of wrong doing. Paul Bremer later became the Ambassador of Iraq and under his reign the insurgency started to spin out of control.

    This story is based on the investigation into 9/11 called Who Killed John O'Neill. Further reading and references are available on the thread above. This summary is about showing a plausible explanation of 9/11 based on the stories and facts discovered thus far.

    Flights investigation
    Flight 11
    Flight 175
    Flight 77
    Flight 93
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    DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 07:23 PM
    Response to Reply #1
    14. Great work
    This needs to be spread far and wide.

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 06:02 PM
    Response to Original message
    2. Index 2-J
  • 2 tons of coke in Paris (al-Cokeda as well?)
  • 3/11 Madrid train bombing (Repsol versus Total. Terrorism to cover up of a coup. WTF? Can't be true, right...) (Hypothesis)
  • 5.5 tons of coke in Mexico (Something's rotten in the town of Venice)
  • 7/7 (Oklahoma City - New York - Madrid - London. A truly global team)
  • 9/11 Commission (Independent commission? LMAO!)
  • 9/11 Encyclopedia
  • 9/11 Inside traders

  • ACE Limited (Another Greenberg family member in insurance and 9/11)
  • Afghanistan (History)
  • Airlines (cartel / inside traitors)
  • Airman Flight School (Baker/Hughes why does that name sound familiar?)

    Hilliard's heroin plane

  • Al-Cokeda Drugs (for black ops)
  • Alpha Firm (KGB enemies? Hell no, their former top team can join us)
  • Salvador Allende (The other 9/11. Some players are the same ?!)
  • Khalid Almihdhar (The terrorists who wasn't in the database)
  • American Airlines (Inside trader)
  • American Bureau of Shipping (destruction of evidence)
  • American Express (Warren Buffett or Vernon Jordan or both??)
  • American International Group (Mother of all fraud)
  • Anderson David & Cooper (Claim three dead, but don't exist)
  • Anthrax (Add some bio terrorism as well)
  • AMR Corporation (Senator David Boren and George Tenet??)
  • AON Corporation (Risk management victim)
  • Armor Holding (Two more teams for 9/11)
  • Mohammed Atta (Terrorist or drug dealer?)
  • Avid Technologies
  • AXA (owner American Airlines. #2 global insurer)

  • Bank of America (The partner of BCCI)
  • Baseline Financial (Did business with Rupert Murdoch. Need I say more?)
  • James R. Bath (Bush's former buddy. Strange that the name of his company was similar)
  • BEA Systems (Risk management victim)
  • Todd Beamer (What kind of a strange family is this?)
  • Bear Streans (Bush's best buddy: Harken Energy, Texas Rangers, Trilateral Investment and Clear Channel)
  • Nick Berg (False flag?)
  • Blackstone Group (Let the competitor of AIG pay for the damage)
  • David Boren (George Tenet, AMR Corporation, Moussaoui and Nick Berg )
  • Paul Bremer (Links to Marsh, Bush administration and HenryKissinger. Spider in the web)
  • Warren Buffett (Happened to invite a CEO at Bush's hide out)
  • Thomas E. Burnett (Peter Kellogg doing some inside trading with Thoratec Corp)

    Worst President Ever
  • Bush family (Partners of Greenberg family. They can't possibly be involved, right?)
  • Buttonwood, the company that didn't exist

  • Cantor/eSpeed (Major reorganization during 9/11) (Story removed by Canadafreepress within 24 hours)
  • Carnival/Carnivore Corporation (Also did a scam during Katrina)
  • CARR Futures (Risk management victim)
  • Le Cercle / Pinay Circle (Clandestine NATO for black ops? The CIA is such a limited organization. Does it still exist?)
  • Michael Cherkasky (Small cop at DA, WTC93, BCCI, Kroll and now CEO Marsh)
  • ChoicePoint (Wanted to merge with Kroll. The guys who purged the voter roles in 2000 and were at the scene at 9/11 for DNA identification of the victims)
  • Chubb Group (Competitor? With Oscar Fanjul on both boards of directors)
  • CIA privatization (Independent, lawless, unrestricted. And they didn't even tell us)
  • CIA rendition (How to use drug planes for other illegal things as well)
  • Cigna group (Sold insurance part to Ace Ltd part of AIG and did inside trading)
  • Citigroup (Did we really sponsor Palestinian terrorists?)
  • Clearstream (Off shore financial centers)
  • CNA Financial (Doesn't this CEO write extremely conservative columns as well?)
  • Controlled Demolition (How come there were two companies at the scene who also specialize in controlled demolition)
  • Convar (How to buy a company to stop investigation into inside trading)
  • Corporate Media (Catapulting the lies to the people)
  • Credit Suisse (Managing director had a meeting at the wrong time)

  • Defence System Limited (The UK top team was there as well)
  • Deutsche Bank (They may sound German, but they are very buddy buddy with the CIA)
  • Doubles (How many Atta's were there?)

    Sibel Edmonds
  • Sibel Edmonds (Overheard Turkish intelligence talking about 9/11)
  • Electrical Contractors (There are many thing you can wire)
  • Enron (Destruction of evidence. Involvement of AIG)
  • E-Systems (Virtually indistinguishable from the spy agencies they serve)
  • Euro Brokers (Risk management victim)

  • Oscar Fanjul (Marsh and Repsol. A big dude with his hands in both oil and black ops)
  • Fiduciary Trust (Thomas Kean and Ann Tatlock but lost 76)
  • Fireman's Fund (Another CIA front?)
  • First Commercial Bank (Pretty much unknown. Were at impact area)
  • Flight 11
  • Flight 175
  • Flight 77
  • Flight 93
  • Flight Termination System (Remote control of airplanes)
  • Louis Freeh (We don't want a FBI director who wants to investigate)
  • Fuji Bank (Mena and right in the middle of WTC2)

  • Genesis Intermedia (How come Adnan was behind Venice?)
  • GKN Securities (Notified that it didn't exist on Sept 10. Still got 9/11 damage rewards)
  • Global Crossing (Destruction of evidence)
  • Global Hawk (Quite a number of people on the planes worked indirectly for this unmanned plane)
  • Greenberg cartel (A family that preys together, stays together)
  • Greenberg-Traurig (Election 2000 Fraud and Election 2004 Fraud)
  • Richard Grove (Whistleblower: Silverstream)
  • Guatanamo Bay (Heroin dealers and terrorist flight school owners are allowed to fly to Guatanamo Bay)
  • Rudy Giulani (The mayor who knew everything in advance. Even London)

  • Haiti (The second democracy in the new world and what they have done to that island)
  • Harken Energy (How to scam with Alan "Ace" Greenberg's money and he didn't even mind)
  • Stephen Hatfield (Anthrax suspect #1. Why is he still running around free?)
  • Jerome Hauer (The man who appointed John O'Neill)
  • Heritage Foundation (US front for Le Cercle? Created blue print for Department of Homeland Security)
  • Willy Hilliard (CIA and drugs?)
  • Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees International Union (we don't want unions)

  • Insurance cartel (Oil cartel, airline cartel and insurance cartel?)
  • Interview with Ty Rauber by Culhavoc
  • Investcorp Investment Holdings Corp (The BCCI of Investment firms)
  • IQ Financial Systems (Deutsche Bank helping Fuji bank helping 9/11??)
  • Iran-Contra (Almost the same script)

    Bernie and Rudy
  • ITT Hartford (JFK, Allende and 9/11)

  • JFK (A history of treason)
  • JM/WAVE (The old terror team and what the effects were on South Florida)
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 06:03 PM
    Response to Reply #2
    3. Index K-Z
  • Kean Commission (Independent Commission? LMAO!)
  • Bernard Kerik (Octafish: Homeland Czar & Petro-Turd Bernie Kerik)
  • Adnan Khashoggi (Oliver North II)
  • Henry K. (King Henry, the butcher of Cambodia)
  • Kroll (A privatized CIA)

  • L-3 Communications (What is General Jay M. Garner doing there?)
  • Lehman Brothers (Dollar, Pounds, Euros we own them all)
  • Neil D. Levin (Executive Director Port Authority)
  • Lockheed Martin (Fox living in the Hen house)
  • LTV Corporation (One of its last actions was pre-9/11 inside trading)

  • Martin Progressive (A happy survivor)
  • Marsh (scene of the crime)
  • Marsh Crisis Consultancy (terror group lead by Paul Bremer)
  • Marsh & Kroll management (Thomas E. Constance, Oscar Fanjul, Michael A. Petrullo, Michael Shmerling and J. Arthur Urciuoli)
  • Marsh Victim list

    Wire specialist on 84th?
  • Mass. Electric Construction (A hidden wire specialist on the 84th floor?)
  • Mena (The predecessor of Venice)
  • MIHOP (Some physical evidence sites and info)
  • Morgan Stanley (Made a huge plan what to do if an airplane struck WTC)
  • Moscow 1999 (I told ya this was the mother of all threads. Why does Moscow feature Adnan as well?)
  • Moussaoui (What is Senator David Boren doing there?)
  • Robert Mueller (He did a marvellous job covering up Panama and BCCI. Let him to 9/11 as well)

  • National Geographics (Why were there some many people including children from National Geographics?)
  • No planers (Optional. Are planes really necessary?)

  • Office of Emergency Management (Control center for terrorist attack)
  • OKC (Another terror event which doesn't make sense)
  • John O'Neill (We don't want an investigation into 9/11)
  • Operation 40 (The first team of the shadow government and all the presidents it spawned)
  • Operation Northwoods (Similar to 9/11. Even though it was decades earlier)
  • Oracle (Quite a number of Oracle people. Most working in WTC1, but all on assignments/ Todd Beamer + Jeff Simpson)

  • Pentagon (The other building with a mystery plane)
  • Pentagon's missing trillions (Why are the missing trillions year after year. What are they hiding?)
  • Phantom Flights (Only the bin Ladens and other Saudis are allowed to leave the United States)
  • Thomas Pickard (The temporary director when everything was being planned)
  • Promis (Are Saddam and Osama enemies?)

  • Raytheon Company (All survived despite being above impact) (Raytheon/DOD people on planes)
  • Rayed Mohammed Abdullah Ali (New Zealand deports a spy)
  • Remote Controlled Detonation (How to blow up WTC while in OEM)
  • Repsol (Marsh even has their own oil tycoon on board)
  • Rick Resola (Tried to save everybody, but his story is weird)
  • RISK management (How to become market leader by eliminating competition)

    Romance of the Seas
    Oil spills, 9/11, Abramoff
  • Royal Caribbean Cruises (Corporate Criminals of the 90s: #21 Royal Caribbean and in the 00s: 9/11 as well)
  • Royal & Sun Alliance (Another AIG buddy)

  • Safari Club (Hunting for the big boys. Saudi-Arabia, Iran, Iraq, US, French club for conspiracies)
  • Sander O'Neill (Risk management victim)
  • Indira Sangh (Windows on the World meeting)
  • Science Applications International Corporation (Where a lot of players met in the events leading upto 9/11)
  • Skyways (9/11 didn't change anything. Lots of drug dealing in Venice)
  • Larry Silverstein / Port Authority (Make billions by blowing up WTC)
  • Silverstream (Fraud Class Action June 20, 2001)
  • Southwest Airlines (What do you mean a competitor can't join in the fun)
  • Standard Charter Bank (Terrorists and WTC7)
  • Stewart Airport (The weird detour of the planes)

  • Texas Rangers (Started with the Harken scam and solved when Junior was governor. The Greenbergs helped out of course)
  • TrailBlazer (Global Position System launched + space and cyberspace control)
  • Trilateral Investment (George W. Bush and AIG. Partners in fraud)

  • UAE Port deal (Port deal related to drug dealing)
  • United Airlines (Losing two planes doesn't mean that you can't do pre-9/11 inside trading)
  • US Airways (All the major airlines committed inside trading?)

  • Venice (The new Mena?)
  • Victims and Survivors
  • Vornado Realty Trust (The failed WTC - Port Authority deal. Didn't stop them from inside trading)

  • W. R. Grace and Company (Asbestos Inc. A mere 250,000 lawsuits thus far)
  • Weatherly Securities Corporation ($1,050,000 for a company which wasn't going to last. They are in copper mines now)
  • Sanford Weill (Sandy seems to know everybody as well)
  • Paul Wellstone
  • Wireless (Why were there so many people on the planes working for the wireless industry?)
  • WorldCom (Destruction of evidence by shredding WTC 7)
  • WTC 1993 (Prior history - Jury found Port Authority 68% liable)

    The Twin Towers before the Bush administration
  • WTC 1 and 2 (Corporation index)
  • WTC 5 (Raging fires but did not collapse)
  • WTC 7 (Small fire, big collapse or was it related to what was inside of WTC7?)
  • WTC Destruction of Evidence (Giuliani ships Twin Towers on a slow boat to China)

  • XL Capital (The re-insurance group with the WilProp for Larry. Run by the Greenberg cartel + inside trading)

  • Dov Zakheim (Comptroller of the missing trillions and CEO of Flight Termination System)

  • WTC Security (Let's put a Bush in charge of security and see what happens)

    Recommended further study:
  • Books / Websites / Videos

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 10:30 AM
    Response to Reply #3
    20. Addenda
  • 1001 Club

  • A2 Software

  • American Bureau of Shipping (Certified to sink)

  • Costa Rica: 1985 Plot to bomb the American embassy

  • Wayne Downing (Bay of Goats)

  • Flight 77: Mari-Rae Sopper

  • Greenpeace (If you can't beat them join them. Direct action group for WWF aided by SAS)

  • Jason Project (Could the Jason Project be a subproject of the flights?)

  • Jerome Hauer

  • Pilgrims Society

  • Riggs Bank (Pinochet, Bush family and other interesting customers)

  • TWA Flight 800 (We saw it and won't be silenced)

  • Paul Wellstone

  • World Wide Fund for Nature (Ecology Royalty style: Parks for training Special Forces)

  • W.R. Grace
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 06:05 PM
    Response to Original message
    4. American International Group
    American International Group, Inc. (AIG) is a major American insurance corporation based in New York City. It is the fourth-largest company in the world according to the 2006 Forbes Global 2000 list. The company became a component of the Dow Jones Industrial Average on April 8, 2004. (1)

    American International Group is the partner in fraud of the Bush family, Henry Kissinger and has very close ties to the CIA. American International Group is used to launder drug money for al-Cokeda and is one of the prime suspects of 9/11. AIG is also listed as one of the 9/11 inside traders. The CEO during 9/11 was Maurice Greenberg.

    AIG cartel

    AIG is at the heart of the cartel of businesses involving the Greenberg family and is always one of the biggest stockholder in the other groups.

    American International Group = Maurice "Hank" Greenberg
    Marsh & McLennan = Jeffrey Greenberg
    Ace = Evan Greenberg
    Kroll always had AIG as shareholder and is currently part of Marsh.

    AIG and CIA

    The American International Group at its origins was linked to the OSS (Office of Strategic Services) the forerunner of the CIA. It grew from the Asia Life/C. V. Starr companies founded by Cornelius Starr who started his insurance empire in Shanghai in 1919, the first westerner to market insurance in China. (2)

    Starr served with the OSS during World War II, and the Starr Corporation, located in the same building as the OSS in New York, provided intelligence on shipping, manufacturing and industrial bombing targets in Asia and Germany. The companies' biggest shareholder was Starr International Company (SICO), a private holding company incorporated in offshore Panama and with principal executive offices in offshore Bermuda, to avoid U.S. regulation and taxes. Starr left Greenberg a large block of Starr International stock. (3)

    AIG and al-Cokeda
    The drug money laundering of AIG was first discovered at Mena where in the period between 1987 and 1992 money was being laundered involving AIG, Goldman Sachs and the Arkansas Development Financial Authority (ADFA). (4)

    Michael Ruppert has conducted an extensive investigation into AIG and its predecessors, including the C.V. Starr Insurance Companies, revealing deep connections to US intelligence dating back to the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) in World War II. These connections include documented CIA operatives connected to drug smuggling from Southeast Asia and a current board member, Frank Wisner, Jr., whose father was a key figure in the creation of the CIA. History, as well as AIG's current operations, suggest that these relationships continue unabated today. (5)

    In The Crimes of Patriots, Kwitny writes that the CIA, began supplying the through two front companies: Civil Air Transport (later Air America), headquartered in Taiwan, and Sea Supply Corporation, headquartered in Bangkok. Sea Supply Corporation, for its part, was founded and run by a lawyer and CIA operative named Paul Helliwell, whom Starr reported to. Colleagues from those days told the Wall Street Journals Jim Drinkhall that Helliwell, then a colonel, regularly used to buy information with five-pound shipments of opium." (6)

    The state of Arkansas was the lead investor in a deal which poured sixty million dollars through a Barbados company, Coral Reinsurance, which is currently under investigation by insurance regulators in New York, Pennsylvania, and Delaware as well as by Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau, lead prosecutor in the BCCI scandal. The American International Group is a 100-billion dollar, multi-national insurance company which founded Coral Reinsurance Company in 1987. (7)

    Recently, two very respected investigative journalists, Roger Morris and Sally Denton, have published the most authoritative and highly documented account to date of events at the Mena airport between 1982 and 1986. Based on over 2,000 documents including the previously unpublished personal papers of Barry Seal, their article "The Crimes of Mena" in the July issue of Penthouse Magazine reveals the government's protection, and cover up of drug smuggling, gun running and money laundering. ( 8 )

    AIG, Enron and the oil and gas pipeline in Afghanistan

    In December 2001, Enron filed for bankruptcy in New York City, not in Houston, where its headquarters was located. The New York bankruptcy court appointed Steven Cooper of Zolfo-Cooper LLC to run Enron. (9)

    The deal involving Cooper's assumption of control of Enron raised eyebrows among regulators, chiefly because Cooper's Catalyst Equity Partner's Fund included Citicorp and J.P. Morgan Chase, two of Enron's major creditors. Financial investigators report that the Enron notes to Citicorp and Chase and sold to AIG and MacArthur were unusual. A former U.S. Justice Department prosecutor referred to such financial instruments as "feints" designed to mask illegal transactions by keeping them off the books and away from the eyes of U.S. government regulators. (9)

    In September 2002, Kroll Inc., a shadowy firm with ties to the U.S. intelligence community, acquired Zolfo-Cooper and Cooper was named managing director of Kroll Zolfo Cooper. In May 2004, Marsh & McLennan acquired Kroll and Zolfo Cooper. Jeffrey Greenberg, the son of AIG's Hank Greenberg, had earlier left AIG to run Marsh & McLennan. The revolving doors and musical chairs involving Enron, Kroll, Zolfo-Cooper, Marsh & McLennan, and AIG became the subject of Spitzer's probes. Another insurance firm investigated by Spitzer for price fixing of property casualty insurance coverage and conspiracy was ACE, headed by Hank Greenberg's other son, Evan. In October 2004, Jeffrey Greenberg quickly stepped down from Marsh & McLennan amid Spitzer's investigation.

    Hank Greenberg has had a long time relationship with Henry Kissinger, the partner of Richard Perle in Trireme Partners, the firm that, according to Seymour Hersh, attempted to negotiate deals with Saudi Arabia using Saudi billionaire arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi as an intermediary. Greenberg and Khashoggi, according to CIA sources, have long had an interest in exploiting the oil and natural gas reserves of Uzbekistan and the construction of pipelines across the Uralskaya region of Russia. Uzbekistan has also featured prominently in oil and natural gas plans of Enron and UNOCAL. (9)

    According to Enron insiders, on Saturday, September 7, 1996, 42 representatives of Enron and UNOCAL met in Tashkent, the Uzbek capital, with Khashoggi, Taliban representatives, and Uzbek government officials. The subject was the CentGas pipeline through Afghanistan to Pakistan, a project that involved UNOCAL, Enron, and Saudi support. Current Afghan President Hamid Karzai was a consultant on the pipeline for UNOCAL. Prior to the Tashkent oil summit, on June 23, 1996, a $10 billion wire transfer was made from Cyprus, via Barclays Bank in London, to Enron in Houston. Cyprus is a major banking center for illicit activity. The Tashkent meeting was followed by a spring 1997 meeting between Enron, UNOCAL, and Taliban representatives at the posh Houstonian Hotel in Houston. (9)

    Greenberg and Bush family are partners in fraud
    Partners in Fraud: The Bush and Greenberg Families by Al Martin

    They are partners in fraud. The Bush family which runs the USA and the Greenberg Family which runs the insurance cartel composed of AIG, Marsh McLennan and Ace Insurance have a lot more in common than mainstream media will ever tell you, writes government whistleblower Al Martin, author of "The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran Contra Insider."

    In his column "Secrets of the Insurance (Fraud)Industry: The Bush-Greenberg Connection" published on Al Martin Raw ( ), Martin writes that "New York State Attorney Eliot Spitzer is investigating systemic fraud in the insurance industry in which Greenberg Family controlled insurance cartel companies like Marsh McLennan, AIG and Ace Insurance get kickbacks for steering corporate clients their way. Three employees of Marsh McLennan have already pled guilty to insurance fraud. Now, in this exclusive report on, you will learn about the insurance fraud connection between the Bush and Greenberg families which Spitzer is NOT investigating.

    (...) "In the 1980's, the Colombian Greenbergs began to expand their commercial real estate business into south Florida and the southeastern part of the United States in general. You would see that in all of the office buildings they bought, including my own, the building wherein I maintained my office, that AIG was the insurer of all of the properties that they own because, obviously, they received a preferred rate from their American Greenberg cousins," Martin explains.

    (...) The connection between the Bushes and the Greenbergs is deep, Martin writes. "The Bush family is intimately connected with all of the companies that the Greenberg family, both the American and Colombian branches, run. You will note that Maurice Hank Greenberg, is the chairman of AIG, and his cousin is Alan Ace Greenberg, the former chairman of Bear Stearns.

    "Bear Stearns, of course, is where the Bush family, the Cheney family, George Schultz, James Baker, etc. all do business. It is the leading brokerage firm of the great and all powerful Bushonian Cabal.

    (...) In another footnote to history, Martin writes that "its interesting to note that the CIA in its operations in northern South America, Venezuela and Colombia in particular, always did their agency banking through Greenberg-owned banks. This connection really goes back to the time that George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA" (10)

    Example fraud: Tri-Lateral Investment Group

    Excerpt from Al Martin's book about Bush's Harken Energy Fraud

    (...) The Tri-Lateral Investment Group, Ltd. is also one of the deals (one of the very few deals, perhaps only a few dozen deals in that era by this group of guys) that you could connect Jeb, Neil, George, Jr., Prescott, and Wally Bush.

    All five you can put in the Tri-Lateral Investment Group, Ltd. You can put Neil in it vis-a-vis Tri-Lateral's dealings with Neil's Gulf Stream Realty.

    Then you back up a step and put Neil Bush into Tri-Lateral Investment Group's dealings with the Winn Financial Group of Denver run by the infamous former Ambassador to Switzerland, Phillip Winn. You can put George, Jr. in the deal vis-a-vis the Tri-Lateral Group Ltd.'s fraudulent relationship with American International Group (AIG), of which George, Jr. was a part through the same series of fraudulent fidelity guarantee instruments issued on behalf of Harken Energy from American International Group.

    Tri-Lateral Investment Group then sold bogus oil and gas leases to AIG. This is a direct fraud that George, Jr. profited to the extent of (not a lot) $1.6 or $1.7 million. But it was a clear out-and-out fraud. (11)

    3. id.
    8. id.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 06:06 PM
    Response to Original message
    5. Kroll
    Kroll, Inc., according to the corporation's web site, "is the world's foremost independent risk consulting company. For more than 30 years, Kroll has helped companies, government agencies and individuals reduce their exposure to risk and capitalize on business opportunities. Kroll is traded on The NASDAQ Stock Market under the symbol "KROL." (1)

    "With offices in more than 60 cities in the U.S. and abroad, Kroll can operate and restructure businesses; scrutinize accounting practices and financial documents; gather and filter electronic evidence for attorneys; recover lost or damaged data from computers and servers; conduct in-depth investigations; screen domestic and foreign-born job candidates; protect individuals, and enhance security systems and procedures. (2)

    Kroll has been named as the private CIA and is one of the prime suspect of 9/11.

    Kroll has merged with Marsh and always had American International Group as their biggest stockholder. The Blackstone Group was a stockholder from 1993 onwards. Just before 9/11 Kroll merged with Armor Holdings.

    Key people
    * Michael Cherkasky
    * Thomas E. Constance
    * Oscar Fanjul
    * Maurice Greenberg
    * Jerome Hauer
    * John O'Neill
    * Michael A. Petrullo
    * Michael Shmerling
    * J. Arthur Urciuoli

    Kroll as the Private CIA

    Maurice Greenberg, the CEO of AIG was destined to become Director of the CIA in 1975, however Bill Clinton gave the job to John Deutch and Deutch made a mess, because the Church Committee Investigation into the CIA started and they discovered all kinds of dirty deals. So George H.W. Bush was send in to replace Deutch and started to privatize all the dirty parts.

    * National Endowment for Democracy became the privatized part of the Election Fraud department of the CIA.
    * Rendon Group was very successful during the Panama invasion and got the Psyops department.
    * There are quite a number of reports indicating that Kroll became the privatized variant of the CIA. (3,4)

    The reason for privatization is that Congressional oversight does not apply to them. Also the former restrictions no longer apply and they can work for whatever government wants their services.

    Example of them taking a job from the Russian government:

    When the CIA was asked in 1992 by Kroll and Associates, working on behalf of the Russian government, to help locate $20 billion that was hidden offshore by the KGB and the mob, the George H.W. Bush national security team declined to cooperate. (5)

    Example of something which they were not allowed to do previously: Operating a division to avoid negative publicity:

    Risk management is a PR specialism which aims to help corporations strategically plan to avoid negative publicity, as well as to deal with it on an ad-hoc basis. PR agencies specialising in risk management include Regester Larkin and Kroll, Inc. (6)

    You know, people on messageboards posting for years defending ridiculous theories like the OCT.

    The world of Kroll
    Welcome to the m urky world of Kroll Inc - the private CIA By Ben Hills June 25, 2005

    (...) In May 2004, Julius Kroll received an offer he could not refuse. Marsh & McLennan, the New York insurance broker which claims to be the world's largest, took over Kroll for an eye- popping $US1.9 billion ($2.46 billion), more than $US100 million of which was pocketed by its founder.

    (...) Last October (2004), New York's crusading district attorney, Eliot Spitzer, filed suit against Marsh & McLennan, accusing the company of having, for years, colluded with big insurance companies to "cheat customers in an elaborate charade of price fixing and bid rigging".

    The three insurers he named were the giants American International Group, Zurich America Insurance Company and Ace Ltd. Adding spice to the story was the relationship between them: AIG was headed by the 79-year-old insurance industry legend Maurice "Hank" Greenberg; his son Jeffrey ran Marsh & McLennan, and; another son, Evan, was boss of Ace.

    (...) Within three months, Cherkasky had overseen a clean-out of Marsh & McLennan's board, and the sacking of most of the executives deemed accountable for the corruption. In January, he persuaded Spitzer to drop the civil charges against the company by pledging to pay $US850 million to clients around the world - including Australia - that Marsh & McLennan had defrauded.

    Criminal charges are still pending against 10 former executives of Marsh & McLennan and the insurance companies. In February, Kathryn Winter, the 50-year-old managing director of Marsh Inc, pleaded guilty to fraud in the Manhattan State Superior Court. She faces up to four years' jail, depending on how keenly she co-operates with Spitzer's investigators.

    France calls Kroll a CIA front

    The French, the CIA and the Man Who Sued Too Much By David Ignatius, The Washington Post

    William Lee is a 57-year-old Harvard-educated corporate lawyer whose specialty, until recently, was international mergers and acquisitions. But a year ago, the government of France charged that he was a spy for the Central Intelligence Agency, waging a secret war to destabilize French corporate interests in Asia.

    The " William Lee affair," as it is known in Paris, appears to be a bizarre case of mistaken identity. Top CIA officials say the agency has no connection to Lee, and the French have dropped their allegations. But it adds a strange new chapter to what is becoming one of the world's hottest spy rivalries, now that the Cold War is over -- the battle between France and the United States over economic espionage.

    (...) The Lee affair began to get nasty last Jan. 26, when French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua summoned U.S. Ambassador Pamela Harriman to complain about American spying against France. As has been widely reported, Pasqua demanded that several CIA spies leave the country.

    (...) Some of the French anxiety about Lee stems from what he did next. In mid-1992, he took a part-time position with Kroll Associates, a New York firm that provides investigative services for big companies and employs a number of former CIA and FBI officers.

    For French officials, Lee's brief stint with Kroll tagged him as a suspicious person. According to French and U.S. sources, the French equivalent of the FBI, known as the Directorate of Surveillance of the Territory, or DST, suspected that Kroll's Paris operation was a CIA front. They bugged Kroll's Paris offices and harassed some of its clients, according to company executives. (4)

    Whistleblower Andrew Grove blames Kroll for 9/11

    The Meria Heller Show

    This man, Richard Andrew Grove, a whistleblower who worked for the big boys and money people behind 9/11 has come out with information to set the 9/11 movement on fire.


    To offer a little contextual History, AIG was founded by OSS operative Cornelius V. Starr, the uncle of Bill Clintons friend Kenneth Starr. AIG was created for and is currently a front which provides cover for intelligence community illicit operations. In 2001, AIG owned a Risk Management firm called Kroll Associates.

    Kroll played a major role in the events of September 11th, and continues to this day to enable events like the 7-7 and 7-21 bombings in the London Tube system they then go on TV and provide expert counterterrorism testimony to the goldfish at home tuned into Fox News and the like.

    While Kroll provided the necessary operational capability, in part, for what was perpetrated; AIG and Marsh were focused on participating in both short and long-term money schemes. Krolls Jerome Hauer (a long time personal friend of ex-FBI Counterterrorism & Osama bin Laden expert John ONeill) hired ONeill as head of security for the WTC.

    Kroll had also managed the bunker in WTC 7 for Rudi Guiliani, and Krolls board of directors shared one peculiar member in common with AIG; that being Frank G. Wisner Jr., son of OSS co-Founder Frank Wisner. I wont go into the history of the OSS, Reinhard Gehlen, or the Council on Foreign Relations / Allen Dulles affiliation with its creation, but I can recommend an excellent book, wherein its relevance is comprehensively documented; the title youre looking for is: The Old Boys: The American Elite and the Origins of the CIA by Burton Hersh (and printed in 1992).


    On July 8, 2004, Kroll Associates was sold to Marsh and McLennan. I would mention at this point that Kroll Associates also provides protection, I mean, Kidnap and Ransom coverage for major corporations and their executives- and employs ex- and-current Intelligence Operatives, as well as ex-Scotland Yard, and freelance mercenaries. Kroll is at the heart of 9-11, though its but a sub-aspect of many other superimposed actions and operative details that took place on that day.


    9/11: The BCCI Connection
    9/11: The BCCI Connection by Chaim Kupferberg Excerpted from: Truth, Lies, and The Legend of 9/11 by Chaim Kupferberg

    The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at grants permission to post the above mentioned article in its entirety, or any portions thereof, so long as the URL and source are indicated, a copyright note is displayed, and, where excerpts are posted, the excerpt(s) is (are) indicated as such, and a link is provided to the full body of the text at from which the excerpt(s) was taken. For publication of this article in print or other forms contact: [email protected] . 5 November 2003

    The URL of this article is:

    (...) It is, in fact, security firms like Kroll Associates, Burns Security, Teg, Wackenhut, and their ilk that should garner our interest at least as much as the web of conservative think tanks that have welded in place the parameters of "mainstream" debate - for it is through these very firms that the former stars of law enforcement have gone through the revolving door into the lucrative private sector. It is a world where former military types mix with various operatives of the CIA, FBI, DEA and any number of alphabet soup agencies charged with the security of our nation.

    Moreover, the top people in the private security sector have the authority, prestige, and, most importantly, the skill to carry out - successfully and below the radar - the kinds of domestic operations that have been pegged as the province of shaggy al-Qaida operatives. Who, after all, could best ensure that 19 terrorists would be able to make it aboard four separate flights without any real danger of detection? And who, after all, would be best placed to ensure a complete and successful implosion of not just the two Twin Towers, but the neighboring building - 7 World Trade Center - which housed a bio-warfare "command and control bunker" under the direction of Jerry Hauer?

    With that in mind, we get a bit closer to the "how" of 9/11 - an important consideration in analyzing the Legend of 9/11. A good part of the early work on that legend had been accomplished through the offices of Michael Cherkasky, the managing director of Kroll Associates - in his capacity as a prosecutor working in the New York office of Robert Morgenthau. Cherkasky had worked on the case arising out of the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, which had established Ramzi Yousef as the terrorist mastermind behind the attack. Cherkasky had also worked on the John Gotti and BCCI criminal cases, two cases that would not, at first glance, seem to be related, much less to the events of September 11.

    (...) The story goes that BCCI was founded by Pakistani financier Aga Hassan Abedi. In truth, it was mostly a British intelligence operation using Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates as fronts, while CIA elements allied with George H.W. Bush used the banking network to conduct a number of under-the- table operations throughout the '80's. Before it went under, BCCI served as the cardiovascular system for a global criminal milieu, its laundered arteries servicing the needs of various drug lords, arms dealers, fraudsters, dictators, corrupt politicians, terrorists, and intelligence agencies seeking loose cash for their extra-legal activities.

    (...) The real scandal of BCCI, however, was not simply that it was a worldwide Ponzi scheme defrauding its investors of billions - for that is the "limited", official version - but that, in the context of 9/11, it provides a glaring spotlight on the very networks most intimately connected with the corruption. BCCI, the brainchild of British intelligence, was the ideal tool by which a supra-national network of compromised politicians and corrupt officials would "play ball", fattened up with a stream of capital furnished through the fruits of drugs, arms, and terrorism.

    As Oliver North had pioneered the use of the counter-terrorism office in dealing with narco- terrorists like Monzer al-Kassar (connected to the Pan Am explosion over Lockerbie), would it be such a stretch to posit that the counter-terror apparatus - this time under Richard Clarke and John O'Neill - was once again being employed to "work" the corrupt networks wrought by BCCI? Can it be a mere coincidence that the arteries of the bin Laden strain of terrorism were fed not by Iran or Syria - the "traditional" sponsors of the more low- key types of terrorism in the '80's - but rather by those very countries that have long served as agents and proxies of their American-Anglo cohorts in crime: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and the United Arab Emirates (i.e. the principal countries fronting for BCCI)? Could it be that the mutually corrupt global relationships wrought by BCCI persist to this day, with a bevy of compromised political officials standing ready to make their contribution to the New World Order - and perhaps scam some extra pocket change on the side?

    Chaim Kupferberg is a freelance researcher, writer and frequent CRG contributor. + Copyright Chaim Kupferberg 2003.

    Kroll's insider trading cover up
    There are reports of a sharp rise in credit card transactions at the WTC on 9/11. Unusually large sums of money were rushed through the computers.

    Convar tried to recover the data. The Convar data salvage found more than $100 million on insider transactions took place in the hours and minutes before the twin towers collapsed. The reconstructed data was given by Convar to the FBI. And in June 2002 Ontrack/Convar was acquired by Kroll Inc. (Kroll O'Gara Eisenhardt). Nothing has ever been heard of the recovered data or the investigation. (7)

    The transaction were made with Silverstream - part of Marsh - software for companies inside the WTC. Those companies were unusually vacant on the morning of September 11. Marsh acquires Silverstream and later Marsh acquires Kroll. (8)

    The Silverstream software was mainly sold to Marsh & McLennan, AIG, Merrill Lynch, Deutsche Bank, Bankers Trust, Alex Brown, Morgan Stanley. It is likely that those companies who are the heart of the banking and insurance industry received a preliminary warning explaining why they were reasonable empty at morning of September 11. The same list of companies are also tied in with pre-9/11 insider trading. Also many of them are tied in with the Intelligence Community (I don't think that work for is the correct term, it's more of a blur), so the lines of communication for those companies is very short. (9)

    Last minute merger with Armor Holdings

    RENT-A-SPY, INC. By jenny Saturday, Nov. 30, 2002 at 3:29 PM American corporation involved in foreign and domestic espionage

    Armor Holdings, Inc. was founded in 1969 as American Body Armor & Equipment, Inc., Jacksonville, Florida. At that time, American was an industry leader in the development, manufacture and distribution of projectile resistant garments. Its manufacturing facility was in New York. Its main customer was law enforcement. American started as a small, mom- and- pop operation.

    In 1995, the company filed for Chapter 11, Bankruptcy and Reorganization. A group of international investors became interested in taking over the company so it was placed in the hands of British national, Jonathan Spiller. Mr. Spiller is or was a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales. Upon reorganizing, the company was renamed Armor Holdings.

    At the time of reorganization, the chain of command for Armor Holdings was as follows:

    * Warren B. Kanders
    * Burtt R. Ehrlich
    * Nicholas Sokolow
    * Thomas W. Strauss
    * Richard C. Barlett

    (...) In 2001, the company made more adjustments and eliminated its US-based investigative offices. 26 positions were eliminated in all.

    (...) Armor Holdings has a global presence. Its client base includes multi-national corporations, non-governmental organizations, governmental agencies, military, law enforcement, security, corrections, natural resource industry, financial industry, insurance industry, investment banks, legal profession, consumer products industry, U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Department of State, United Nations, USAID, World Bank, and Britain's Department for International Development.

    (...) Products are manufactured in the US, UK, and Mexico. The product line includes body armor, vehicle armor, non- lethal weapons, duty gear and military garments, forensic collection equipment and supplies, prisoner restraints, and anti-riot gear (tear gas, percussion grenades, etc.) Located within this division is the Training Academy of Technology and Tactics to educate its clientele on the proper use of the previously identified products. The company has over 500 distributors and sales operatives worldwide.

    So in 2001 they reorganized and got rid off their US spy division and just before 9/11 on August 23rd they bought Kroll. Doesn't make any sense...

    In 1996 they bought Defence Systems Limited which is also an "interesting" partner.

    Defence Systems Limited was one of the earliest PMCs (Private Military Corporations), formed in 1981 by a group of ex-SAS officials riding the swell brought on by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's yardsale of Britain's defense industry to cold war warriors of worth. DSL was initially started with private financial support from London bankers, and possibly some Middle East investors. Over the next fifteen years they established a reputation in the security industry and a small fortune, before selling all to Armor Holdings, Inc. in 1997 for $26 million (10)

    What was DSL became ArmorGroup, a one stop shop spot for a variety of products pertaining to defense and riot situations. They then reached out to old foes and brought on ex-KGB commandos when they acquired the Alpha Firm. (11)

    DSL has provided protection and training services to a variety of elite niches in the security sector. In addition to major corporations, DSL has received contracts from governments around the world. They guarded the embassies of the United States, South Africa and Switzerland in the Democratic Republic of Congo as well as the embassies of England, Italy, South Africa, Sweden, and the US in Angola. They have provided camps for workers rebuilding a railway line in Mozambique, trained policemen in Somoalia, demined areas of the former Yugoslavia (12) and worked with various NGOs.

    DSL has provided oil line protection and security force training for oil firms around the world. In the DRC they protected the SOCIR oil refinery installations belonging to Congo- SEP, a subsidiary of Belgian Petrofina. In Angola, where they were guarding oil and diamond companies, they were forced to expel 103 of their personnel for violating laws regarding the use of foreign corporate nationals. (13) Some other past clients include: Amoco, Andarko Petroleum, Bechtel, British Petroleum, Broken Hill Propriety Petroleum, Cambior, Chevron, De Beers, Exxon, Mobile and NGOs CARE and Goal.

    They have also worked extensively with the United Nations and the World Bank.

    Brazil's biggest corporate scandal

    The Brazilian connection June 25, 2005 A businessman caught up in an industrial espionage scandal in Brazil has turned up in Sydney. Ben Hills investigates.

    By Brazilian standards, Operation Jackal was carried out with clockwork precision. On a steamy spring day, 90 agents of the elite Policia Federal burst into a dozen homes and offices in four cities, seizing documents and computer hard drives, and arresting some of the country's most prominent businessmen.

    The raids last October were the climax of a seven-month investigation into the activities of Kroll Inc, the largest and most flamboyant of the world's "risk management" companies, whose activities range from rescuing hostages to tracking down stolen treasure - and, so the police allege, illegal industrial espionage.

    As the story unfolded, some of the biggest names in Brazilian business and politics were dragged into the affair - the head of the country's central bank, the minister for communications, the boss of the country's third-largest telecommunications company, an investment banker with links to America's giant Citigroup.

    As the investigation widened, more than a dozen people were arrested, including executives and employees of Kroll who were initially accused by the police of crimes including conspiracy, illegal phone-bugging, and bribery. They included its joint chief executives, Eduardo Gomide and Vander Aloisio Giordano.

    The boss of Kroll's Brazilian operations, its president, a 35-year-old US-educated businessman named Eduardo Sampaio, escaped the dragnet. Not long after news of the police investigation had broken four months earlier, Sampaio left the country and - to the surprise of Australia's risk management community - arrived in Sydney to take up a position as head of what is now called the Marsh Risk Consulting Group, Kroll having been taken over in the meantime (see story page 46).

    However, two weeks ago, charges were formally laid against Sampaio, six other Kroll executives and contractors, and 19 other people in what has blown up into the Brazil's biggest corporate scandal.

    (...) 1119321906577.html

    2. id
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 06:08 PM
    Response to Original message
    6. Marsh
    The Marsh & McLennan Companies(MMC) is a "global professional services firm with annual revenues exceeding $10 billion."

    The companies:

    * Risk and Insurance Services: Marsh, Inc. and Guy Carpenter.
    * MMC Capital .. a global private equity firm.
    * Investment Management: Putnam Investments.
    * Consulting: Mercer, Inc. (1)
    * Risk Management: Kroll
    * Crisis Management: Marsh Crisis Consulting

    Marsh & McLennan is controlled by Jeffrey Greenberg, the son of Maurice Greenberg and of course American International Group is their biggest stockholder. CEO is Michael Cherkasky.

    Marsh is the prime suspect in 9/11, because Marsh had full control on WTC1 where they occupied all floors and they had the top floor of the WTC2 "impact" and could have worked their way down, however the main occupant was Fuji bank with whom AIG did a lot of work and also featured in Iran-Contra.

    Paul Bremer is a member of their boards and is closely related to the Bush administration as well as Henry Kissinger. On October 11, 2001 Marsh established specialized terrorism team called Marsh Crisis Consultancy. The following teams were added to it: Control Risks Group, a British ex-SAS team and Versar, a bio terrorism and homeland defense team. The same group could have known each other from 9/11.

    Marsh also bought Kroll who is the prime suspect for the operational part of 9/11.

    Marsh's pre 9/11 inside trading
    Marsh & McLennan Cos., the biggest insurance brokerage, which had 1,700 employees working in the World Trade Center. Traders on Sept. 10 exchanged 1,209 contracts on options that profit if company shares fall below $90 through the third week of September. Previously, 13 contracts had traded on an average day. Marsh & McLennan shares fell $2.50 today to $84.50.

    Canadian securities officials said yesterday that the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission has asked North American investment firms to review their records for evidence of unusual trading activity in securities affected by the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. The Investment Dealers Association of Canada told its 190 members that the SEC has identified 38 companies -- including the parent firms of United and American airlines, which lost four aircraft -- whose shares were traded at abnormally high levels in the weeks prior to the attacks, suggesting that buyers and sellers had advance knowledge of planned terrorist acts.

    The SEC equities list named several big companies that were tenants in the collapsed buildings in the heart of New York's financial district: investment firms Morgan Stanley, the towers' biggest occupant; Lehman Bros.; Bank of America; and financial firm Marsh & McLennan.

    November 1, 2004 The Secret World Of Marsh Mac By Marcia Vickers

    After Andrew

    Still, just days after September 11, Greenberg and top MMC execs met to figure out how to profit from the disaster. They formed a subsidiary -- Axis Specialty Ltd. -- to sell insurance to corporate customers at three or four times the rates before September 11...

    For some industry players the move recalled what Greenberg did in 1992 after Hurricane Andrew slammed into South Florida and wiped out some $15 billion worth of property. Jeff, who was working for dad at AIG, sent out an internal memo stating: "This is an opportunity to get price increases now."

    How Paul Bremer profited from 911 by jail kissinger Tuesday April 06, 2004 at 12:27 PM

    Paul Bremer was hired by an insurance company that had hundreds of employees die in the world trade center, to reap maximum profits for antiterrorist insurance

    Insurance Industry Stands to Benefit from Changes Wrought by Sept. 11

    By Christopher Oster, The Wall Street Journal

    For Marsh & McLennan Cos., the Sept. 11 attacks have meant two very different things.

    But in the days after the attacks, even as the company was sorting out who was safe and who had perished, it quickly became clear that Sept. 11 presented a tremendous business opportunity for Marsh and other strong players in the industry.

    Within days of the twin towers' destruction, Mr. Greenberg and top lieutenants began planning to form a new subsidiary to sell insurance to corporate customers at sharply higher rates than were common before Sept. 11. Marsh also accelerated plans to launch a new consulting unit to capitalize on heightened corporate fears of terrorism. Vice Chairman Charles A. Davis says the company is merely meeting new marketplace demands. "There's a financial reward for doing that," he says.

    Modest Disruption

    From a business perspective, the disaster caused only modest disruption for Marsh, which has 57,000 employees worldwide. On the evening of Sept. 11, Mr. Davis, Marsh's vice chairman and chief of its MMC Capital arm, sent a fax to Mr. Greenberg's home that accounted for the unit's employees - they were all safe - and suggested the formation of a new subsidiary that would underwrite corporate policies.

    On Oct. 11, Marsh announced the formation of a new consulting unit, with Mr. Bremer at its head. Two weeks later, Marsh unveiled a partnership between its new unit and Versar Inc., a counterterrorism-service provider. The partnership will assess chemical and bioterrorism risks for corporate clients

    Part II -- Billions in Pre-911 Insider Trading Profits Leaves a Hot Trail: How Bush Administration Naysayers May Have Let it go Cold

    by Kyle F. Hence

    Below are a few standouts on the SEC list <' *' indicates a WTC tenant; (-x) represents the multiple over average volume>: Airlines: UAL (285x), AMR (60x) Insurance sector: Marsh & McLennan (93x)*, Citigroup (45x), Swiss Re, XL Capital Brokers: Bear Stearns (60x), Morgan Stanley (27x)*, Merrill Lynch (12x)

    Analysts also noted that though the insurance sector was one of the strongest in a depressed stock market, there were huge spikes in put options in Marsh & McLennan and in Citigroup. Marsh & McLennan, the biggest insurance broker, was a World Trade Center tenant with 1,700 employees. It also saw, next to UAL, the highest spike in put options; thus you have a confluence of facts that, in the minds of many experienced traders and experts, amounts to unequivocal evidence of foul play. Clearly traders placed bets based on sure-fire insider prior knowledge. The odds against this happening randomly or coincidentally are astronomical; probably incalculable.

    The Case for Bush Administration Advance Knowledge of 9-11 Attacks by Michael C. Ruppert COPYRIGHT 2002, Michael C. Ruppert and FTW Publications, all rights reserved. May be reprinted or distributed for non-profit purposes only.]

    INSIDER TRADING The documented pre-Sept. 11 insider trading that occurred before the attacks involved only companies hit hard by the attacks. They include United Airlines, American Airlines, Morgan Stanley, Merrill-Lynch, Axa Reinsurance, Marsh & McLennan, Munich Reinsurance, Swiss Reinsurance, and Citigroup.

    "I saw put-call numbers higher than I've ever seen in 10 years of following the markets, particularly the options markets,' said John Kinnucan, principal of Broadband Research, as quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle,"

    'it's absolutely unprecedented to see cases of insider trading covering the entire world from Japan, to the U.S., to North America, to Europe."

    Marsh's secret world. It's like working for the CIA
    November 1, 2004 The Secret World Of Marsh Mac By Marcia Vickers, Business Week

    CEO Jeff Greenberg presides over the arrogant and tight-lipped culture of Marsh & McLennan, where conflicts of interest abound. There's more trouble coming for the world's largest insurance broker.

    When Jeffrey W. Greenberg took the helm of notoriously secretive Marsh & McLennan Cos. (MMC ), a $12 billion financial-services company, on Nov. 18, 1999, analysts were happily buzzing that Greenberg was a gregarious, outgoing executive. The word on Wall Street was that he would raise the profile of Marsh Mac with more public appearances and open communication than his tightlipped predecessor, A.J.C. "Ian" Smith.

    (...) At the center of the storm stands Jeff Greenberg, 53. If you ask almost anyone about him, you'll hear that he is smart as a whip, incredibly knowledgeable about the insurance business, well-spoken, and polished. Much like his father, Maurice R. "Hank" Greenberg, 79, the legendarily hard-charging chairman and CEO of insurer American International Group Inc. (AIG ), he has a history of being opportunistic when it comes to scoring profits for his company. Even now, his defenders insist that he inherited serious problems, particularly in the brokerage and mutual funds businesses, when he moved into the top slot....

    The firm's obsessive focus on secrecy helps keep any misdeeds under wraps, say the sources. "Some companies have a culture based on kickbacks and undisclosed financial arrangements, and their people are forced to remain silent about wrongdoing," says Edward A.H. Siedle, a former Putnam compliance director and SEC official who now heads the Center for Investment Management Investigations in Ocean Ridge, Fla., which looks into pension fraud....

    (...) But now it's MMC's top brass who are squirming. Being in the spotlight is highly uncomfortable for MMC -- long known as a patrician, white-shoe firm with an air so understated and secretive that at least one former exec likened it to working at the CIA. Its ranks have included Ambassador L. Paul Bremer III, former Presidential Envoy to Iraq, who recently ran MMC's crisis-consulting business; Stephen Friedman, President George W. Bush's top economic adviser and former Goldman, Sachs & Co. (GS ) co-chairman, who was an MMC senior principal; Craig Stapleton, the husband of George W. Bush's cousin Dorothy, who was an MMC president; and Lord Lang of Monkton, a former British Member of Parliament who still sits on the board....

    Marsh's scandal list





    Marsh Crisis Consultancy

    The Crisis Consulting Practice of Marsh, Inc. (Marsh Crisis Consulting) is "an operating company of Marsh & McLennan Companies (MMC). Marsh's Crisis Consulting Practice provides services to corporations to help them plan for, manage and recover from a full range of crises such as natural disasters, product recalls, workplace violence and terrorism." (2)

    Marsh Crisis Consultancy is part of Marsh, operated by Paul Bremer and has close connections to AIG, Kroll, Bush administration and Henry Kissinger. It is a top team of experts who had the means to carry out 9/11, since they had access to Marsh, they also had the opportunity and 9/11 was very much to their advantage and nobody seemed to care for the victims and even the destruction of their own office was irrelevant. Additional teams were available within Kroll who merged with Armor Holdings just before 9/11 and thus added a top UK and top Russian team to their crew.

    Marsh Crisis Management
    L. Paul Bremer is Chairman and CEO. Bremer has served as Chairman of the Marsh Political Risk Practice from 2000 until present. Bremer was Ambassador-at-Large for Counterterrorism in 1986 and even played with Bio-Terror for a while. In 2003 he was put in charge of Iraq.

    Former head was Craig Roberts Stapleton who is married to President George W. Bush's cousin Dorothy.

    John Copenhaver is the senior vice president of Marsh Crisis Consulting and was Regional Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. He played a key role in the Sept. 11 emergency management team in New York City this past fall. (3)


    "NEW YORK, October 11, 2001 - Marsh Inc. / Marsh, Inc., (...) Concurrently, Marsh and Control Risks Group LLC / Control Risks Group LLCjointly announced an agreement to provide a full range of political risk assessment services for clients' worldwide operations.

    Their merger partners for Afghanistan and later Iraq:

    Control Risks Group
    Control Risks Group, based out of London, was founded in 1975 as a subsidiary of the Hogg Robinson insurance and travel group, becoming the first company to provide advice to clients involved in kidnap situations. The company began with the hiring of three SAS officers: Maj. David Walker, Arish Turle, and Simon Adams-Dale. Walker would go on to co- found Saladin Security and Keenie Meenie Services of Iran/ Contra noteriety. Turle would go on to co-found the Risk Advisory Group after a stint at Kroll, Inc.'s office in London. (4)

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 07:27 PM
    Response to Reply #6
    8. Post scriptum / Copyright / Disclaimer
    Edited on Sat Jul-15-06 07:36 PM by DrDebug
    Post Scriptum:
    The basis of any investigation is asking questions, finding relationships, establishing means, motive and opportunity and formulating an alternative hypothesis which might explain the events.

    Enough questions have been asked, enough relationships have been determined, means, motive and opportunity have been established, objectives have been found and an alternative hypothesis has been formulated and the existing hypothesis has been proven wrong scientifically.

    These posts are not perfect proof and do not contain perfect evidence because that was not the intention of this investigation and that is left to the professionals, however the conclusion of this investigation is that the video Who Killed John O'Neill can be validated and its research extended leading to a plausible alternative hypothesis for the events of 9/11.

    This investigation is very lengthy and often extremely detailed, however I am personally convinced that it is close to the truth of what happened 9/11 and therefore I am satisfied. It is by no means perfect and some details will turn out differently and some things have probably been overlooked.

    As mentioned before do what ever you like with this information, extend it, write about it, talk about it and make sense of it.

    9/11 is not a single event
    Oklahoma City
      New York City
    Thanks to:
    Ty Rauber, Richard Grove, Sibel Edmonds, Daniel Hopsicker, Wayne Madsen, Michael Ruppert, Al Martin, Miranda Priestly, seemslikeadream, the-catbird-seat and many more...

    Disclaimer / Copyright
    Applies to all my posts in this thread:
    All text taken from wikipedia and sourcewatch is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License ( ). This post contains copyrighted material in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107 ( )

    You are free to copy this post within 'fair use', if you wish to use the copyrighted material from this post for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owners (see links). Full permission for whatever purpose is granted for these compilations.

    None of the contributors or anyone else in any way whatsoever can be held responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libelous information or for your use of the information contained in or linked from these web pages. No guarantees are made, in any way whatsoever, about the validity of the information found here. Any information found on this page can be incomplete, outdated, incorrect and it is upto the user to check the validity of any information found here.

    All persons, corporations and countries mentoined in these post are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

    No consequential damages can be sought for this post, as it is a voluntary developed freely to create various online educational, cultural and informational resources. This information is being given to you gratuitously and there is no agreement or understanding between you and the author.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 04:11 AM
    Response to Reply #8
    11. Your "series" has been a gift
    which has broadened the perspective from the rehashing of physical evidence. The unveiling of the corporations and agencies which were involved in 9-11 has given me a completely different point of view and I have many points of departure to continue investigating.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 07:21 AM
    Response to Reply #11
    12. I think we have a much clearer picture on 9/11 now
    Edited on Sun Jul-16-06 07:28 AM by DrDebug
    Thanks for all your help. You've been great :grouphug:

    I think the summary is the most important post, because the lengthy threads are extremely detailed and it needs an easier summary. And things like those towers in the post were a bit too much and passed the 64K limit of a single post as well... (I think I'm the first ever to pass that limit on this board)

    There are many points of departure from this document and lots of physical evidence stories can be fit in to give a good visual. There are very good visual summaries that both WTC1 and WTC2 were most likely controlled demolition. WTC6 also has weird stories which hasn't been mentioned here.

    I think that the corporate angle is a very good angle and Ty Rauber was correct in his video. The only thing which we have added is companies like Marsh and Raytheon who were probably involved as well. The story still stands and just becomes stronger and stronger. There are a couple of things missing like a direct connection between AMEC / Tully and AIG / Kroll / Marsh. There is a link between AMEC and the Pentagon, however Kingstar does not have the experience required for massive projects like WTC. That Kingstar is from the UK is no problem, because I think quite a lot of teams have been hired from outside the US since it doesn't matter anymore and it gives some additional distance.

    The funny thing is that I read some other discussions here and on other sites and it feels like we are already miles beyond and have already have most parts of the 9/11 blue print.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 01:17 AM
    Response to Reply #12
    16. The people on the Pentagon plane and their connection
    to the players can not be coincidence. There seemed to be a certain personality type among the passengers. Extremely well educated, experts in their field, maybe idealistic, and ethical, driven to be on committees to make the world a better, more fair place - in other words , people who might be whistle blowers, and who were connected to the different aspects of terrorism such as medical or pharmaceutical companies (bio terrorism), defense contractors (technology that could have been used on 9-11) or who worked in the financial sector of the military (why were so many people there anyway since it was being redone?).
    The Beamer plane is weird too, because of his connections to Legato, and the rumors about him.

    I know that gets a little off track, but it continues with the theme of the player's involvement, not just some black op within the government.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 05:56 AM
    Response to Reply #16
    18. I agree as well
    Edited on Mon Jul-17-06 05:59 AM by DrDebug
    Most people on the planes were selected because of their involvement in projects or had competitive systems, because we have seen at WTC as well that the selection of companies to tell could have been related to some sort competitor elimination game as well.

    There were also some people who could have been involved in al-Cokeda or known about it like Prof Robert LeBlanc. The man was retired from the University and loved to travel and just received his tickets for an India trip. Christoper Haskell, ex military press, immediately makes a posting on his memorial site - the second entry in fact - that Robert was leftie commie anti-war guy whom he last met 31 years previously, and I can't help wondering whether that was a diversion for the conspiracy theorists.

    And somewhere hidden below you had his collegue at the American Canadian French Cultural Commission and it turned out that they were doing some student exchange. NGOs like Carl Duisberg Gesellshaft and Richelieu International are so big that you can easily hide a dozen drug dealers among the thousands of regular students. However on the US side you had a small club with one professor handling maybe 10 students a year so if he suddenly had four students who never set foot in the university and discovered that they were involved in drug dealing then you'll get a totally different pictures since Robert LeBlanc would have known the person at Richelieu who included the drug dealers to the list of normal students.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 12:44 PM
    Response to Reply #6
    13. Let's put up another song - Quite appropriate as well
    Edited on Sun Jul-16-06 12:49 PM by DrDebug
    Based on Andrew Lloyd Webber: (The Mystery Cat) Macavity

    CIA's a Mystery cat: He's called the Hidden Claw
    For he's the master criminal who can defy the law
    He's the bafflement of FBI, the Flying Squad's despair
    For when they reach the scene of crime CIA's not there!

    CIA, CIA, there's no one like CIA
    He's broken every human law, he breaks the law of gravity
    His powers of levitation would make a fakir stare
    And when you reach the scene of crime CIA's not there

    You may seek him in the basement, you may look up in the air...
    But I tell you once and once again, CIA's not there!

    CIA's a ginger, he's very tall and thin
    You would know him if you saw him for his eyes are sunken in
    His brow is deeply lined in thought, his head is highly domed
    His coat is dusty from neglect, his whiskers are uncomed
    He swirls his head from side to side, with movements like a snake
    And when you think he's half asleep, he's always wide awake

    CIA, CIA, there's no one like CIA
    He's a fiend in feline shape, a monster of depravity
    You may meet him in a by - street, you may see him in the square
    But when a crime's discovered then CIA's not there!

    He's outwardly respectable, I know he cheats cards..
    And his footprints are not found in any files of ..Scotland.. Yard's
    And when the larder's looted ...or the jewel case is rifled

    Or when the milk is missing or another peke's been stifled
    Or the greenhouse glass is broken and the trellis past repair
    There's the wonder of the thing CIA's not there!

    CIA, CIA, there's no one like CIA
    There never was a cat of such deceitfulness and suavity
    He always has an alibi, and one or two to spare
    What ever time the deed took place CIA's not there!

    And they say that all the cats whose wicked deeds are widely known
    I might mention Mungojerrie, I might mention Griddlebone
    Are nothing more than agents for the cat who all the time
    Just controls the operations: the Napoleon of Crime!

    CIA, CIA, there's no one like CIA
    He's a fiend in feline shape, a monster of depravity
    You may meet him in a by - street, you may see him in the square
    But when a crime's discovered then CIA, CIA
    CIA, CIA
    When a crime's discovered then CIA's not there.

    Andreas von Blow, Minister of Defense in Germany (Social Democratic Party = center-left )

    Von Blow:
    Until that time, I did not have any great knowledge of the work of intelligence agencies. And now we had to take note of a great discrepancy: We shed light on the dealings of the Stasi and other East bloc intelligence agencies in the field of economic criminality, but as soon as we wanted to know something about the activities of the BND** (German intelligence) or the CIA, it was mercilessly blocked. No information, no cooperation, nothing! That's when I was first taken aback.

    You don't think much of the earlier proposals by the Greens, who wanted to dismantle these agencies?

    Von Blow:
    No. It is right to take a look behind the scenes. Getting intelligence about the intentions of an enemy, makes sense. It is important when one tries to put oneself into the mind of the enemy.

    Whoever wants to understand the CIA's methods, has to deal with its main tasks, covert operations: below the level of war, and outside international law, foreign states are to be influenced, by organizing insurrections, terrorist attacks, usually combined with drugs and weapons trade, and money laundering. This is essentially very simple: One arms violent people with weapons. Since, however, it must not under any circumstances come out, that there is an intelligence agency behind it, all traces are erased, with tremendous deployment of resources.

    ** I assume that the incestious relation between the Nazi Wehrmacht, CIA and BND are pretty well known.

    I still think that Von Blow makes very much sense, this investigation is intelligence and that part is useful and necessary. The secrecy, lies, terrorism, drug running, money laundering, weapons smuggling part of the intelligence apparatus is the part I don't accept. And with privatization there is no way that anybody knows what it is they are doing. A Minister of Defense is not allowed to know, so who is allowed to know. Nobody except themselves, right?
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 01:23 AM
    Response to Reply #13
    17. The worst part

    "all traces are erased, with tremendous deployment of resources". I mean there are so many strange things, but essential information is missing. It's hard to tell what is real and what is fake, especially with the "hijackers".
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 10:23 PM
    Response to Reply #17
    19. The worst part is that they are WEHRMACHT
    That's the proper name for these people. They are Nazis. Pure and simple!
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 06:09 PM
    Response to Original message
    7. In memoriam
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    dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 07:39 PM
    Response to Original message
    9. Great stuff Dr D
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    pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 10:49 PM
    Response to Original message
    10. thanks Dr. D
    Your posts will be a valuable source for many conversations
    in the weeks and months to come. Not only is "Who Killed John O'Neil" a compelling
    piece of art, it now has some kick-ass research to back it up.
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    mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 10:17 PM
    Response to Original message
    15. kick
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:19 PM
    Response to Original message
    21. Project Atlantis speculation
    Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 09:06 PM by DrDebug
    Unlike the 9/11 hypothesis this is not factual, however it is a story I'd like to add, since it is a distinct possiblity and at least it will add a little happy ending to 9/11. Upto now I seriously considered that the passengers of the flights (11, 175, 77 and 93) didn't make it, however some may have survived.

    The children in the flight story were part of the Jason Project. There is a Jason Project for adults which is a secret group of the best scientists who are working on future sciences. Bear in mind that we are dealing with a group of people who are years beyond the normal realms of science and technology.

    The world has done many things however we haven't build a self sustaining city underwater yet and it might be very useful research for the future. The city can be self sustaining if it is near a hydrothermal vent. Such vents exist 2,500 kilometers east of Bermuda. The nice thing about them is that can theorically provide enough power for a whole city and it does not require oil. It is a natural power source.

    Is it possible to create a city like that. It probably is. One thing you need is an equivalent of the Mir where you have people inhabiting the city for a prelonged period of time to study the effects on humans. You need biomedical people, wireless people for the communication, it needs a satelite for the communication and lots of scientists.

    It can't be just scientist and it will be useful to have people of several age groups including children. Oh yeah, it needs to be top secret, maybe it is better to let some of the people of the flights "disappear" east of the Burmuda Triangle...

    Why are the French cooperating in this project? The answer is very simple: Jacques-Yves Cousteau. He is the father of Oceanography and his research led to this field so they are the experts.

    Once again this is just an idea about future science. I'm not saying that Project Atlantis exists, because unlike the other hypothesis it is grounded in solid facts.

    However the following discussion does make this something to consider:
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    democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 04:13 PM
    Response to Reply #21
    22. kick and let's keep kicked
    IMHO this is by far the most important post in this forum in the last year or so.

    Great work!!!!
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 04:29 AM
    Response to Reply #22
    23. yep, look at the people
    on the planes and in the buildings, not at the buildings or the planes.
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    Ferry Fey Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 11:03 AM
    Response to Reply #21
    24. Bit of a leap from Biosphere 2 project, isn't it?
    Edited on Sun Jul-23-06 11:03 AM by Ferry Fey
    Do you think we've made sufficient progress since the Biosphere 2 project was aborted in 1994 to run a black project like that, even without having it be a closed system?

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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 11:49 AM
    Response to Reply #24
    25. This are the best scientists, so that makes it more likely
    They are talking about space stations and this can be the first step.

    I think that it might be possible to build it in the Atlantic Ocean using the hydrothermal vents as a power system. And it doesn't have to be a perfectly closed system yet, because they have four ships and a satelite for their communication. Also think of the possibilities of having a hidden city in the Atlantic for all kinds of black operations. And you can take a submarine from and to Atlantis, so nobody knows. (Well the Russians maybe, but then again they are friends now)

    And once this is perfected then they can go on to Europa (think 2050 or so) where you also have hydrothermal vents in a deep ocean. The perfect place for the first colony outside of earth, because the moon can never be closed system and even Mars will be very difficult.

    I mean if JFK didn't dream then we'd never done the moon landing. The only difference is that Bush wants to keep it a secret of course since they are thinking of their own family first...
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 12:50 AM
    Response to Original message
    26. McIlvain & Burson Marstellar
    Bobby McIlvain worked for Merrill Lynch, but he had worked previously for Burson Marstellar. If he worked for them, he probably knew a lot of "inside" information, the kind that Richard Groves speaks of. Ironically, B&M were hired by the Saudi's to clean up their post 9-11 image, i.e: Conceal the appearance of their involvement. They specialize in influencing public debate on the internet. They were hired by DOW to cover up Bhopal - nice.
    Funny remark about B&M (imagine how they might try to change that debate in the "recesses of the internet").-
    "Negative comments or dialog, which can be devastating to large
    corporations, often begin unnoticed in the recesses of the Internet," said
    Eric Letsinger, director, channel development, Cyveillance. "Our technology
    provides an early detection system to identify these threats and gauge their
    potential impact, allowing Burson-Marsteller to alert their clients to
    critical issues far in advance of a crisis."

    Anyway, Bobby was one of those sent to a meeting that morning. Mr. Grove told us that many of those at the meeting for Marsh were people who held unfavorable views of the companies business practices. Could Bobby have been intentionally sent to an early morning meeting?
    His dad is MIHOP, btw. Here is an interview.
    Father of 9/11 victim Bobby McIlvain talks to Jon Gold of about the 9/11 commission and how he has come to the conclusion that the US government orchestrated 9/11.
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    seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 02:26 PM
    Response to Reply #26
    81. Burson-Marsteller to Use Cyveillance Technology
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 04:07 PM
    Response to Reply #26
    82. The irony is that some think that their image can improve
    Edited on Sat Sep-09-06 04:07 PM by DrDebug
    by blowing up their own employees...

    Waleed's bottle opener
    Since we are on the subject of negative publicity for Saudi-Arabia. After all they wanted to become equal partner in the CIA depravity, and it's clear that the Saudi Arabia is clearly the second country as far as scale of participation in 9/11 goes; they are clearly more important than the United Kingdom or Germany for crying outloud.

    There is one Saudi which we haven't mentioned yet and that is Citigroup's main stockholder, prince Al-Waleed bin Talal bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud. Indeed that's the crazy dude with that enormous bottle opener in Riyadh with a top floor for Waleed alone which appears to be suspended 1,000 feet up in the air. It was built by Bechtel of course. He also has a major stake in AOL, News Corp, Worldcom, Disney, donated to the George Herbert Walker Bush Scholarship Fund, etc.

    Just as the reminder. The top three worst corporate 9/11 offenders:
    1. AIG cartel (AIG, Bear Stearns, Kroll, Marsh, XL Insurance, etc.)
    2. Citigroup (Banco Nacional de Mxico, Citibank, Diner's Club, Smith Barney, etc.)
    3. Deutsche Bank (AB Brown, Bankers Trust, Deutsche Bank, etc. )

    I am really serious that if this was an honest world - I know it isn't but one can dream - then those three companies/cartels really need to be investigated and the put options are direct evidence of involvement.

    And they think that they can avoid bad publicity? They can never hide from the truth...
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 03:41 AM
    Response to Original message
    27. More on Carr Futures
    Edited on Wed Jul-26-06 03:48 AM by mirandapriestly
    from the first WKJO thread.

    It seems Carr Futures refused to give up some records,(see below) and guess what? They had an early morning meeting on September 11, I wonder if anyone in the meeting knew about any of this? The meeting was supposed to be over at 8:30 so the boss could get on a conference call, I wonder if he hightailed it out of there? The 92nd floor was below the impact, even the floor above it was, but the stairways were all evidently blocked. Also the conference door was jammed, how suspicious is that? Sounds suspect to me. (I have a book "102 minutes", by Jim Dwyer, and Kevin Flynn that the info about the meeting and the blocked doorways is from.)

    The gov't lawsuit against Carr:
    "Specifically, the order finds that between March 7, 2000 and February 12, 2002, in the course of a CFTC investigation, the Division of Enforcement issued several formal document requests to Carr to produce its original canceled and unfilled order tickets for S&P 500 futures contracts for approximately 118 trade dates between July 1998 and February 2000. Carr was unable to locate and did not produce its canceled and unfilled S&P 500 customer orders for 52 of 118 requested days. Carrs failure to produce these records impaired the Divisions ability to fully investigate the order-filling activities of a floor broker under investigation."

    Read the top message:
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 04:16 AM
    Response to Reply #27
    28. Is it related to Clearstream
    Edited on Wed Jul-26-06 04:24 AM by DrDebug
    I thought rman mentioned Clearstream in part III as well.

    As said previously Credit Lyonnais, the mother company, is an Enronian company and used to have multiple scandals simultaneously (a bit like the Greenberg companies as well)

    The money laundering scheme involving Credit Lyonnais and others (like Barclays and Citigroup) were running during the 90s was published in February 2001 in a French book called Revelation$ by Denis Robert and Ernest Backes and it caused a huge political controversy in Luxembourg. It appears that the Clearstream scheme was probably a new and improved version of BCCI.

    Tracking Terrorist Money -- Too Hot For U.S. to Handle?
    Lucy Komisar, Pacific News Service
    October 4, 2001

    A controversial European book that might help authorities track terrorist funding sources remains unpublished and relatively unknown in the United States.

    Entitled "Revelation$," it exposes a secret banking system that might be used by terrorists. At the center is a clearinghouse in Luxembourg called Clearstream, which transfers money for international banks and major companies.

    Written by a former high-ranking Clearstream official and a French journalist, its publication last February by Les Arenes in Paris triggered the firing of Clearstream's top officials, a judicial inquiry in Luxembourg, and invitations to the authors to address members of the European Parliament and the French parliamentary commission on financial crime and money-laundering.

    Authors Ernest Backes -- a former banker who helped design and install the clearinghouse's computerized accounting system in the 1970s -- and investigative reporter Denis Robert described a potential money laundering and tax evasion system that uses unpublished accounts to provide investors with a veil of secrecy.

    This reporter was shown copies of what Backes says are records of the secret accounts. He keeps the originals in caches outside Luxembourg. The documents are a mine of information for any financial inquiry, with detailed information on every cross-border transfer in cash or securities. Some U.S. officials -- including New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani -- may well be aware of the system detailed in the documents.


    It also brings us back to Silverstream. The name is almost the same as Clearstream. Are the two related?
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 06:14 AM
    Response to Reply #27
    29. Speculation Clearstream to Silverstream
    Edited on Wed Jul-26-06 06:36 AM by DrDebug
    Pure speculation:

    Clearstream consisted of three major partners:

    Credit Lyonnais (EU)
    Barclays (UK) because London is the center of the universe
    Citigroup (US)

    The EU part got exposed in the Spring of 2001. The US part has gone completely unmentioned, so they managed to keep it out of the press. This means that the US part of Clearstream was probably still up and running during 2001, however it would have been wise to transform that part and get rid off any links between the EU and US part.

    The Silverstream software had to be ready before 9/11 and Marsh invested a lot of money and lots of consultants and IT personnel to get the software up and running. We know this because of Richard Grove's testimony, however there were lots of IT people in WTC1 at the time.

    The software was for Marsh & McLennan, AIG, Merrill Lynch, Deutsche Bank, Bankers Trust, Alex Brown, Morgan Stanley. Deutsche Bank/Banker's Trust and Alex Brown is the same group and possibly the new EU side. Marsh and AIG is the spook side. Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley as the new US side.

    The thing which they needed to do was to get rid off the EU-US connection in Clearstream. CARR Futures is a US subsidiary of Credit Lyonnais, so maybe the people in the meeting at CARR Futures were the people who could possibly connect the EU part of the operation with the US part of the operation. That way they could transform Clearstream into Silverstream and the US part of the operation could have been thoroughly shredded in WTC7 which was part of Citigroup.

    P.S. There were excessive put options in Luxembourg as well. That little country also saw unprecedented pre-9/11 trading. The investigation in Luxembourg never produced any results either. That could be important, because Luxembourg is a very irrelevant stock market.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 06:05 AM
    Response to Reply #29
    30. Interesting speculation.., I would like to find
    the name of McGinnis boss. It is interesting that he was expecting a conference call and had to be done by 8:30, which is just like what Groves said about Marsh, only the CEO was conveniently at home. The services Clearstream provided sound like they would use the Silverstream software:
    "So a bank can just order a transaction between its own account and the other bank's account, in lieu of less secure methods such as carrying a case full of currency or securities around on the street; the bank merely transmits an order to Clearstream to credit/debit one of its own accounts and the other bank's account(s). This general system is in use between regular companies, and governments, and banks around the world."
    from wikipedia.

    Also, Bin Laden's Bahrain International Bank used Clearstream clearing house for its financial activities.

    And Clearstream had connections to Nelson Rockefeller, Chase Morgan, Citibank, & Credit Lyonnais.

    The heavy financial activity during 9-11 reminded me of what Clearstream is useful for.
    "The purpose of Clearstream is to facilitate money movements around the world'''" (Wikipedia)

    It was bought by Deutsche Borse, I don't suppose that is related to Deutsche bank.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 06:22 AM
    Response to Reply #30
    31. Silverstream as part of Clearstream. That's maybe more like it.
    Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 06:34 AM by DrDebug
    Deutsche Borse is the owner of the German Stock Exchange.

    In 2001, 2004 and 2006 Deutsche Brse was in advanced negotiations for a takeover of the London Stock Exchange which would have brought two of the biggest bourses in Europe into one holding. NYSE beat out Deutsche Brse's final bid in 2006.

    Because the biggest person at Marsh was Oscar Fanjul who entered their Boards of Directors in 2001. I thought that the main reason was Repsol, since that would add an oil division to their operations. However he is also on the Boards of Directors of London Stock Exchange.

    Spitfire list has an interesting story about 9/11 and Clearstream:

    37. Reviewing information presented in FTR#356, the program notes that SICO opened 16 unpublished accounts with the Clearstream network in early 2001. (For more about the Clearstream networkowned by the Deutsche Borse see FTR#s 356, 357, 360, 367, 376, 387, 458, 463, 485.)

    The possibility that these accounts were used to finance the activities of 9/11, including (perhaps) the enormous amounts of cash available to Rudi Dekkers, Atta and company is one to be SERIOUSLY INVESTIGATED. Note in this context that Clearstream is owned by the Deutsche Borse, which in turn is owned by the major German commercial banks and they are controlled by the Bormann group.

    Note also that the BCCI heavily utilized the Clearstream network, as (apparently) did the 9/11 conspirators. As noted in FTR#s 462, 464, Robert Mueller covered up the BCCI investigation and his FBI is now covering up Operation Green Questthe investigation into the 9/11 money trail. In November, U.S. authorities named some banks that had bin Laden accounts, and it put them on a blacklist. One was Al Taqwa, Fear of God, registered in the Bahamas with offices in Lugano, Switzerland. Al Taqwa had access to the Clearstream system through its correspondent account with the Banca del Gottardo in Lugano, which has a published Clearstream account (No. 74381). But Bin Laden may have other access to the unpublished system.


    If Deutsche Brse is owned by commercial banks, it is very likely that Deutsche Bank is the biggest owner, because it's one of the biggest banks in the world. They are listed on the Boards of Directors of Deutsche Brse.

    The Deutsche Bank is one of the three owners:

    The second half of the program focuses on the control of the Deutsche Borse by three big German commercial banks: the Deutsche Bank, the Dresdner Bank and the Commerzbank.

    Bormann Group is interesting as well. The Bormann Group's main player is Thyssen-Bornemisza. I think you remember that name, right. That was Prescott Bush's business partner.

    26. Among the companies whose stocks were involved in the short selling are Swiss Reinsurance and Munich Reinsurance. (Idem.) Both companies have liability in the World Trade Center bombing. Allianz was another insurance company whose stock was (according to some) suspiciously. Mr. Emory has detailed his suspicions that the stock manipulation was performed by the Bormann group (probably including the Al Taqwa Group.) The economic and political component of a Third Reich gone underground, the Bormann organization controls corporate Germany and much of the rest of the world. The Bormann group is a primary element of the analysis presented in the For the Record programs. For more about the Bormann organization, see: FTR#s 87, 90, 99, 102, 120, 122, 123, 125, 127, 134, 145, 152, 155, 158, 177, 179, 180, 187, 189, 193, 194, 195, 200, 215, 216, 218, 219, 224, 226, 232, 233, 234, 235, 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, 245, 248, 250, 251, 261, 272, 273, 274, 275, 276, 278, 283, 286, 292, 293, 294, 298, 299, 300, 302, 303, 305, 309, 313, 322.)

    27. One of the primary elements of the Bormann organization is the Thyssen-Bornemisza organization, headquartered in Lugano, Switzerland (the base for Youssef Nadas operations.) (Martin Bormann: Nazi in Exile; Paul Manning; Copyright 1981 ; Lyle Stuart Inc.; ISBN 0-8184-0309-8; P. 237.) Mr. Emory speculates that the Nada/Al Taqwa organization may very well be part of the Bormann organization. (Registration req.)
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 08:32 AM
    Response to Reply #31
    32. So did Osama bin Laden do pre-9-11 inside trading in Germany?
    Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 08:32 AM by DrDebug
    This may sound ridiculous, however there is now a likelyhood that Osama bin Laden was indeed one of the people who knew about 9/11 as well and that he was one of the vultures using the Frankfurt Stock Exchange to make it a little less obvious... Very Hegelian indeed...
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:46 AM
    Response to Reply #32
    33. Not ridiculous at all.
    If we had a real government we could find out the answer.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:51 AM
    Response to Reply #33
    34. And the former nazi connection is pretty clear as well
    Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 10:07 AM by DrDebug
    OSS married Wehrmacht producing CIA (first child) and BND (second child)
    Deutsche Bank with an extensive Nazi past has close connections Bormann (=former Nazis underground) as well as very close connections to the CIA. It's like they are all grouped together within the CIA - Deutsche Bank - Bormann as if WWII never happened. And Osama bin Laden did pre-9/11 trading using Bormann group and we know that Deutsche Bank is a bank of the Bin Laden family. So the story isn't just that he was(/is?) on the CIA payroll. He was probably on the payroll of the former nazi side.

    All those Germans in Venice make sense as well. That was clearly a German operation and now it makes sense why they did it. Upto now I figured that it was a way to get Dekkers somewhere else, since he had a little past record so they dumped in the US, but that was not the main reason. It was the CIA-DB-Bormann group who set up Venice.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 11:23 AM
    Response to Reply #34
    35. It also means that Poppy's privatized CIA wasn't his idea
    Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 11:25 AM by DrDebug
    The Third Reich thought of it first after WWII. There is no way that they could get any political power anymore, so they kept their structure and assets partially alive in huge corporations, because you can easily hide something small in something large. The Bush-Nazi are well documented so George H.W. Bush knew that their nazi pals kept their organization alive that way, so he did the same with his organization which was closely related anyhow.

    Very little is known about the Bormann Organization except for David Emory who had been extensively studying the group.

    Bormann knew the Nazis had lost the war once the allies landed in Normandy on D-Day. He gave himself nine months to place into operation his flight capital program to find a safe haven for the Nazis' liquid assets. Essentially, the Alsace-Lorraine area would serve as a microcosm for his plans. Germans owned the controlling interest in many of the French banks in the area. A German majority ownership also controlled many of the factories. In essence, Bormann would rely on tarnung (best translation: Camouflage) to hide German corporations. Bormann was close friends with Schmitz, a director of I.G Farben and studied I.G.s method of tarnung extensively. Bormann sorted his records and then shipped them to Argentina via Spain. Bormann began his flight capital, already having control of the Auslands-Organisation and the I.G. Verbindungsmanner. Both organizations placed spies in foreign countries disguised as technicians and directors of German corporations.


    However, the real problem was the rot and corruption within the United States. The leaders of Americas largest corporations were all in sympathy with the Nazis and almost all of them had invested heavily in Nazi Germany. Additionally, there were many in Congress that sympathized with the Nazi cause. The mood in Congress was one of "get the boys home and get on with business." When Orvis Schmidt testified before congress to the extent of the Nazi infiltration of neutral countries before the end of the war, it fell on deaf ears. An excerpt of his testimony is given below.

    "The danger does not lie so much in the fact that the German industrial giants have honeycombed the neutrals, Turkey and Argentina, with branches and affiliates which know how to subvert their commercial interest to the espionage and sabotage demands of their government. It is important and dangerous however, that many of these branches, subsidiaries and affiliates in the neutrals and much of the cash, securities, patents, contracts and so forth are ostensibly owned through the medium of secret numbered accounts or rubric accounts, trusts, loans, holding companies, bearer shares and the like by dummy persons and companies claiming neutral nationality and all of the alleged protection and privileges arising from such identities. The real problem is to break through the veil of secrecy and reach and eliminate the German ability to finance another world war. We must render useless the devices and cloaks which have been employed to hide German assets."

    We have found an I.G. Farben list of its own companies abroad and at home--- a secret list hitherto unknown--- which names over 700 companies in which I.G. Farben has an interest.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 11:44 AM
    Response to Reply #35
    36. Neil D. Levin, Executive Director of the Port Authority died on 9/11
    Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 11:46 AM by DrDebug
    In 1995, Levin was appointed by George Pataki as New York's Superintendent of Banks. In this role, Levin was the state's chief banking regulator, head of the Department of Banking, and Chairman of the State Banking Board. In 1997, Pataki named Levin as the state Superintendent of Insurance. Pataki also named him the Chairman of the Commission on the Recovery of Holocaust Victims' Assets, which arranged for the return of assets to families in New York.

    Is this related?

    This explains all the zionist theories as well, because upto now we only saw some Israeli Ectasy dealers and a Israeli company which moved out one week prior to 9/11.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:42 PM
    Response to Reply #36
    39. He had just been promoted to that position in May
    He must have had a lot of knowledge
    "In his role as Superintendent of Insurance, Mr. Levin regulates more than 1,000 insurance companies with total assets exceeding $2.0 trillion. He has oversight responsibility for more than 100,0000 brokers, agents and financial intermediaries and manages approximately 1,500 department employees.

    ... He has also modernized the agency by emphasizing the use of new technology and by facilitating the online submission of rate and form filings and online financial reporting."
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 12:27 PM
    Response to Reply #35
    37. There are not many sources about the Bormann Brotherhood
    Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 12:52 PM by DrDebug
    David Emory is the main author about this secret organization. Both Mae Brussel and Simon Wiesenthal were also convinced that the organization had been setup and was using hunderds of different companies and was the corporate part setup by Martin Bormann.

    ODESSA (German: Organisation der ehemaligen SS-Angehrigen, "Organization of Former SS-Members") is the name commonly given to an international Nazi network alleged to have been set up towards the end of World War II by a group of SS officers, among whom were Martin Bormann and Heinrich Himmler. Some historians, while acknowledging that there were secret postwar organisations of former SS members, deny that any organisation called Odessa ever existed.


    According to Simon Wiesenthal, ODESSA was set up in 1946 to aid fugitive Nazis. Other sources, such as many interviews by the ZDF German TV station with former SS men, suggest that ODESSA never was the single world-wide secret organization that Wiesenthal described, but that there were several organizations, both overt and covert (including the CIA and several Latin American governments), that helped ex-SS men.

    Reason why this is interesting
    The German government participated in Afghanistan but immediately dissented over Iraq. So they clearly weren't too interested; yet the Germans are clearly the second largest partner in 9/11. Probably even more important than Saudi Arabia. Maybe it wasn't the German government and it was the former nazis had lots of interests in 9/11 and the games played during 9/11. But how to proof that...
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    FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 09:55 PM
    Response to Reply #37
    54. I'm living in Germany

    To get more about the Nazi history and who financed them you have to go here

    The post war NPD(Neo Nazi) party leadership was MI6,4273,4480651,00.html

    It's always synthetic like (Al-Ciada/Al Qaeda/Al Cokeda) the Cia Database for Mujahedeen

    Yeah the Bushes have long Nazi History,12271,1312540,00.html
    "Sarah, if the people had ever known the truth about what we Bushes have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched."
    Bush to Sarah McClendon

    We had a documentary about September 11th in Germany on public Television (2003), shortly after that the authors were slandered in a major newspaper and lost their jobs.

    It's a normal documentary, it has Northwoods, Shanksville, nothing special.

    I would say 5-10% of Germans know, that there are open questions about 911. Not much Talk Radio here....
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 02:16 AM
    Response to Reply #54
    56. That MI6 story is interesting
    Edited on Fri Sep-01-06 02:22 AM by DrDebug
    Because British Intelligence was different from the American Intelligence. The Gehlen-Dulles partnership is the main problem with the CIA and the intelligence agencies which they spawned. Gehlen even bragged on several occassions that he taught the CIA everything they knew. I assumed that the British were smarter because there was more hatred against the nazis unlike the United States. The problem with intelligence agencies is that they tend to be magnets for the extreme right ilk.

    I'm not that surprised there was a backlash against the documentary makers, because there a quite a number of very large German companies whose top management have participated in 9/11 like Deutsche Bank and Allianz. It isn't so much a governmental problem, but more a problem with the top leadership in large corporations who used 9/11 to their advantage. This is why Bormann is interesting if it still operational, because that will provide a framework explaining how they all knew one-another. In the United States it seems to have been the CFR and contacts with either AIG (=Greenberg-Bush) and Citigroup (=Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal al-Saud) which is the thing they all in common.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 06:02 AM
    Response to Reply #54
    63. BTW I think that it is important that more people know about this
    The same thing can happen in Germany as well as many other countries, because some/many of the corporations directly involved in 9/11 are present (e.g. Kroll, Control Risks Group, Marsh), other German companies played a role (Deutsche Bank for inside trading, Allianz/Fireman's Fund has a relationship to the drug trade in Venice) and they benefited from 9/11. Other companies like Munich Re and Swiss Re had to cough up $5 billion which was about 10% of their annual revenue, so they mostlikely didn't know about it, however they didn't fight it even though it was insurance fraud and their competitor forwarded the contract of the towers to them.

    There are political groups everywhere who do not object to this form of terrorism. We've already established that there is overlap in Madrid and London where you coincidentally find the same names and groups. It is naive to think that this form of terrorism is limited to the extreme fringe in politics like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, because they also needed to convince more moderate politicians that 9/11 should go ahead and probably sidetracked those who objected.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:09 PM
    Response to Reply #31
    40. The other stock markets are interesting as well
    At least the following markets participates:
  • Frankfurt (Deutsche Bank on its Board of Directors)
  • London (Oscar Fanjul on its Board of Directors)
  • Luxembourg (Clearstream)
  • New York (Blackstone Group and many others)
  • Paris (Credit Lyonnais on its Board of Directors)
  • Singapore
  • Tokyo (Fuji bank on its Board of Governors)

    They probably made sure that all the stock markets which were used were firmly under their control. It seems like New York - London - Frankfurt had already decided on merging into one entity and the game was mainly on whether New York or Frankfurt would become the most important one. It seems that New York won, so in a couple of years New York - London will merge with Frankfurt. (2 is better than 1 and 3 is of course the best)

    So only Singapore is unknown. All the others have 9/11 players on their board of directors.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:50 PM
    Response to Reply #31
    41. Rudy knew about Clearstream
    When Mayor Giuliani was an assistant prosecutor in charge of investigating the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) in the early 1990s, he received documents from Backes, according to "Revelation$."

    "Giuliani and agents of the FBI were delighted with the official documents ," the authors wrote. BCCI was a Pakistani-run bank registered via shell companies in the Cayman Islands that used secret accounts to effect an $8 billion global money-laundering fraud. Before it was shut down in 1991, BCCI was used by U.S. and Saudi intelligence to fund the mujahedeen, then fighting the Soviet-supported government of Afghanistan.

    ...The Shell petroleum group had a non-published account in the name Shell Overseas Trading Ltd. The German giant Siemens had four non-published accounts.

    Among the international banks with the most secret accounts are: Citibank (271); Barclays (200); Credit Lyonnais (23); and the Japanese company Nomura

    (Backes was a former official for Clearstream)
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 07:19 PM
    Response to Original message
    38. Interlinking Jeb Bush's Executive Order dd. Sept 7, 2001
    Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 07:24 PM by DrDebug



    WHEREAS, as Governor, I may delegate the authority contained in Section 250.06(4), Florida Statutes, to order training to help respond to civil disturbances, natural disasters, and counter drug operations to The Adjutant General of the State of Florida; and


    WHEREAS, the Governor may order the Florida National Guard to provide extraordinary support to law enforcement upon request and such a request has been received from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) to assist FDLE in performing port security training and inspections.

    NOW, THEREFORE, I, JEB BUSH, as Governor of Florida, by virtue of the authority vested in me by Article IV, Section 1(a) of the Florida Constitution, and by Section 250.06(4), Florida Statutes, and all other applicable laws, do hereby promulgate the following Executive Order, to take immediate effect:


    This Executive Order shall remain in full force and effect until the earlier of its revocation or June 30, 2003.

    IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and have caused the Great Seal of the State of Florida to be affixed at Tallahassee, the Capitol, this 7th day of September 2001.

    Jeb Bush protected the Venice operation and signed the protection of al-Cokeda before 9/11. This is very significant, because it would mean that Venice was under martial law and the true nature of Venice could be protected. Oh yeah, he was also kind enough to personally go to Venice in the night after September 11.

    It also explains why George W. Bush was in Florida on September 11. He would have been automatically protected in case things got out of hand.
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 06:12 PM
    Response to Original message
    42. This was a good thread...
    I think it needs a kick! So here.
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 09:22 PM
    Response to Reply #42
    113. And Another...
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 02:13 AM
    Response to Original message
    43. Let's kick my research again
    It can't be ignored forever...
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    seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 12:31 PM
    Response to Reply #43
    44. It can't and won't
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 04:57 PM
    Response to Original message
    45. Kick
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:51 PM
    Response to Original message
    46. Very informative thread..
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 02:26 PM
    Response to Original message
    47. Things...
    that make ya go hmmm!
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    pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 02:47 AM
    Response to Original message
    48. kick n/t
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 03:26 AM
    Response to Original message
    49. Kick
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    pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 07:45 PM
    Response to Original message
    50. A kick for the OCTers
    Who somehow never managed to see or comment on these threads.
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    AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 08:47 PM
    Response to Reply #50
    53. Sometimes...
    we just don't have anything to say.

    Are we supposed to be experts on everything? :shrug:
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    greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 02:40 AM
    Response to Reply #53
    57. If there were a summary of this summary
    it may be more likely to attract attention and discussion.
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    FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 08:18 PM
    Response to Original message
    51. Some Questions
    Edited on Thu Aug-31-06 08:19 PM by FoxOnTheRun
    1. Is it possible that he has been killed before 911 and been given his job at WTC afterwards?

    2. Who created or enabled the Nazis?
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 01:37 AM
    Response to Reply #51
    55. Can only answer question 1
    John O'Neill was still alive on 9/11 because he made it out of his office after the plane hit and he was in the lobby of WTC1 and there a quite a number of witnesses who said that he was there. "Who Killed John O'Neill" is a metaphore, because he left the lobby and was found dead a couple of days later. And this is the part which doesn't make sense, because he was a 9/11 survivor, so there is a reason to believe that they were hoping that John O'Neill didn't survive 9/11 and then got rid off him in another way.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 02:53 AM
    Response to Reply #51
    58. #2 is intriguing, never thought about that.eom
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 04:24 AM
    Response to Reply #51
    62. Let's try #2 as well
    But I don't know the exact history. Hitler was inspired by the Brotherhood of Death which was a form of black freemasonry and was an occult magic group who already used symbolism like the Swastika which they borrowed it from Jainism. As some know, it is not a negative symbol, but a solar symbol and when turned 45 degrees it is supposedly a fortune teller, because if it seemingly rotates clockwise, it indicates good fortune and otherwise it indicates bad fortune, and Hitler firmly believed that hence the abundance of that rotated symbol everywhere so he could instantly tell whether or not to perform an action. The brotherhood was extended by Himmler who turned it into the SS.

    On the other side of the ocean we had William H. Russell who also learned about the Brotherhood of Death during a visit to Germany, and started Skull and Bones in the United States which was a group of bankers and opium traders. The nazis got part of their backing from Skull and Bones members, but also from local groups.

    However it is not clear who enabled, created the nazi group, because people like Hitler and Himmler merely borrowed and extended an underground movement which was already present due to the civil war and anarchy which dominated part of Germany at the time.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 08:26 AM
    Response to Reply #62
    65. Order out of chaos and the importance of drugs
    Edited on Thu Sep-07-06 08:28 AM by DrDebug
    Let's try to reconstruct what the result of the early opium trade was, because this is a chapter in human history which sadly unknown to most.

    The consumption of opium was known in antiquity, however it was never widespread until the Spanish arrived in China and started to mix it with tobacco and thus allowed for an easy way to consume opium. The Dutch later tried to use opium as a method to control Indonesia, since they wanted to keep the population under control with minimum resources. The effectiveness was such that China banned the use and growth of opium in 1729.

    Great-Britain saw the potential as well and started to use similar methods on a greater scale in Bengal which they had conquered in 1757, imposed a monopoly to the opium trade for the British East India Company, and forced many farmers in Bengal to grow opium. They also started to smuggle the opium into China, because it had become a valuable substance due to the ban on opium.

    Samuel Russell in the United States founded Russell and Company in 1823 for smuggling opium into China, and also smuggling it into the United States, because they had the fastest ships known at the time and could therefore get the drugs to the market quicker than anybody else.

    In 1831 William H. Russell, the cousin of Samuel, went to Germany where he got into contact with the philosopher Hegel and the Brotherhood of death. In 1832 he founded the order of Skull and Bones in the United States which brought together the sons of the opium smugglers and the sons of bankers.

    The British trade with China could only be performed on a minor scale and the Chinese only accepted silver as a way to pay for it. This already lead to lots of tension between the two nations and the continuing smuggling of opium further escalated the tension. In 1839 British sailors destroyed a temple, murdered a man, and refused to hand the guilty sailors over for trial. The British retraited from China and took control over Hong Kong where they prepared for war.

    The first opium war was extremely bloody and was mainly about getting China addicted to opium and opened up for trade. At the end of the opium war there were already several million addicts, and the amount was rising at an incredible speed.

    This triggered a counter movement which got popularised by Hong Xiuquan, a self-proclaimed mystic, who called himself a Messiah and ordered strict discipline, a very strict form of Christianity, and a military style obedience to him as the leader. Because of the immense chaos caused by the opium, the counter movement grew rapidly. The Chinese government was unwilling to do anything against the opium trade, because they feared it would upset the British, French and Americans who were dominating the drug trade at the time.

    On January 1851 an army of the followers of Xiuquan attacked the imperial forces which triggered the start of Taiping Rebellion, by far the worst civil war the world has ever seen. The number of casualties is unknown, however the estimated death count is between 100,000,000 to 200,000,000. The chaos of the Taiping Rebellion triggered Great-Britain, France and the United States to demand a new trade deal which China rejected. And in 1854 the second Opium War started.

    This is what the opium trade did in the past, and this is why drugs are still so important for the secret services. Not only as a means to control the population, but also to reap the benefits and fortunes of chaos. This is what is happening in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and in many inner cities around the world. And it is intentional, because the proceeds are used to further escalate the situation.

    As always I wonder how many people even bother to read this. Nevertheless I felt like writing it.
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    FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:26 AM
    Response to Reply #65
    67. Don't forget the Skull & Bones link
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 05:17 AM
    Response to Reply #65
    83. Interlink Oliver Stone thread (re: fake fundie movement and more)
    Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 05:18 AM by DrDebug

    Link to fake religious movements intended to narrow people's mind / brainwash them, like the fundies and Moonies, Disney / Clinton stuff, Weird gathering of the occult (eg. Disney, Moonies) in the Napa wine valley.
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    rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 02:27 AM
    Response to Reply #51
    91. 2: the unscrupulous power elites of old
    No need to explain how big money and the influence that comes with it tends to stay in the family, for generations on end.
    That kind of wealth and power goes back a long time, and i for one would not be surprised if these people do have long-term, large-scale vision. After all, they do have a lot to lose.
    Just look at who supported Mussolini and Hitler: Big Capital, Bankers, Industrialists of all nationalities. And then there's the fact that fascism popped up all over the place more or less at the same time (even in the UK, though it didn't take hold there). I think a plausible explanation for it is a coordinated effort by those who have an interest in maintaining power instead of having it taken away thanks to the labor movement.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 03:21 AM
    Response to Reply #91
    92. Wealth from an individual ultimately becomes clan money and it's long term
    Edited on Fri Sep-15-06 04:03 AM by DrDebug
    I think it is clear that the Bush and Greenberg family are already at the clan stage where you can no longer talk about an individual member of the family, but it has become a clan who is acting as one and definitely has a long term strategy to acquire even more wealth and power and keep it within the clan structure.

    It is no surprise that Prescott Bush's business partner in funding Hitler was Thyssen from the Thyssen-Bornemisza family. If you look at the Thyssen-Bornemisza family tree you'll notice that they not only kept their wealth within the clan, they are actively interbreeding with the other clans like the Habsburgs. So the Bush-Thyssen partnership was probably a strategic decision for both clans as well, since they were both in steel and banks and both families believed in the clan structure to keep the wealth in the family over a long term. The 2004 revenue for just ThyssenKrupp alone (and they have plenty more companies) is $48,000,000,000 with an amazing 180,000 employees, so they are more powerful today than in 1940. And we all know how powerful the Bush clan has become...

    The weird thing is that we have Fortune 500 lists were Bill Gates is listed as the richest person of the world and it doesn't mention the Thyssen-Bornemisza clan because they spread it within the clan. Yet the Thyssen-Bornemisza and the Krupps combined have acquired more wealth than Bill Gates and in a way outrank Bill, because they already managed to keep and extend the wealth for centuries.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 08:36 PM
    Response to Original message
    52. kick
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 02:59 AM
    Response to Original message
    59. Carlyle Group, AIG, Goldman Sachs & Riverstone
    team up to take energy company private. I just heard about this so I haven't checked it out, but now we have Carlyle Group involved with World Trade Center companies. Did we find Riverstone in there too? I'll have to look.

    Nanagement Group and Investment Partners Propose to Take Kinder Morgan, Inc. 'Private' at $100 Per Share

    Houston - Richard D. Kinder, the Chairman and CEO of Kinder Morgan, Inc. , today announced that he, together with other members of management, co-founder Bill Morgan, current board members Fayez Sarofim and Mike Morgan, and investment partners Goldman Sachs Capital Partners, American International Group, Inc., The Carlyle Group and Riverstone Holdings LLC, has submitted a proposal to acquire all of the outstanding common stock of Kinder Morgan, Inc. at a price of $100 per share in cash. Kinder, who would continue as Chairman and CEO following the transaction, would reinvest all of his 24 million KMI shares. Combined, KMI management and the participating board members would be investing almost $2.8 billion in the transaction, and the financial sponsors would provide the remainder of the required equity. The value of the purchased equity, together with the debt that would be either refinanced or remain outstanding is approximately $22 billion.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 03:24 AM
    Original message
    One of the Riverstone Holdings managers was with Blackstone
    for fifteen years.
    They are the ones who assumed the debt on wtc7.

    "Prior to joining Riverstone in 2003, Mr. Hoffman was Senior Managing Director and head of the M&A Advisory business of The Blackstone Group for 15 years, where he also served on the firm's Principal Group Investment Committee as well as its executive committee. During his tenure at The Blackstone Group, Mr. Hoffman led the $10 billion merger of Northern States Power with New Century Energy, resulting in the first coast-to-coast U.S. utility company. He also advised Louisville Gas & Electric in the $5 billion acquisition of LG&E by Powergen of the United Kingdom. In 2001, Mr. Hoffman was asked to assist the Governor of the State of California in his efforts to manage the short-term financial shocks to the state and structure the state's $12 billion energy cost financing. In 1982, Mr. Hoffman was named Managing Director and co-head of the Mergers & Acquisitions Department at Smith Barney, Harris Upham & Co."
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 03:57 AM
    Response to Original message
    61. And the circle is round again.
    Because Blackstone connects to Larry, CFR, New York Stock Exchange, AIG, Federal Reserve and all the others.
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 03:24 AM
    Response to Reply #59
    60. Delete, double
    Edited on Fri Sep-01-06 03:25 AM by mirandapriestly
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 05:02 AM
    Response to Original message
    64. Another reason for corporate participation in 9/11.Primary dealers in debt
    One of the major results of the Bush administration and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq is the tremendenous increase in U.S. debt. As you probably know Bill Clinton tried to eliminate the debt and one of the major achievements for George W. Bush is not only that he reversed that policy, but took it to unprecedented depths.

    So what is the benefit of this for all those banks which seems to have participate in 9/11 inside trading and seem to have had preknowledge? The common theme is that the U.S. debt is distributed globally by a limited number of banks known as primary dealers who are the only ones who are allowed to transfer the debt from the Federal Reserve to the investors.

    As loisbatt ( ) has previously stated, the major problem for countries like Saudi Arabia is that their religion does not allow for people to take advantage of interest and therefore their main way of investing their huge oil profits was by means of U.S. Treasury notes.

    Since those notes are traded by a select number of banks ( ) who get a commission on each treasury note, they have an immense benefit with the continuing increase of U.S. debt. Also the increase of debt is beneficial to partners like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Pakistan since their only means of investing are by either purchasing companies or buying treasury notes.

    So who are the select number of banks which are allowed to deal in U.S. debt?

    As of January 17, 2006 according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York the list includes:

  • ABN AMRO Bank, N.V., New York Branch (WTC1)
  • BNP Paribas Securities Corp. (Electronic trading in the US provided by Cantor Fitzgerald with offices in WTC1)
  • Banc of America Securities LLC (Inside trader; Offices in WTC1 and WTC7)
  • Barclays Capital Inc.*
  • Bear, Stearns & Co., Inc. (Part of the AIG group)
  • CIBC World Markets Corp.
  • Citigroup Global Markets Inc. (Inside trader; WTC7)
  • Countrywide Securities Corporation
  • Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC (WTC1)
  • Daiwa Securities America Inc.
  • Deutsche Bank Securities Inc. (Inside trader; damaged building near WTC)
  • Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein Securities LLC.
  • Goldman, Sachs & Co.*
  • Greenwich Capital Markets, Inc.
  • HSBC Securities (USA) Inc. (WTC5)
  • J. P. Morgan Securities Inc. *
  • Lehman Brothers Inc. (Inside trader; WTC1)
  • Merrill Lynch Government Securities Inc.*
  • Mizuho Securities Company USA Inc. (WTC1 and was known as Dai-Ichi Kangyo Bank on 9/11)
  • Morgan Stanley & Co. Incorporated (Inside trader; WTC2)
  • Nomura Securities International, Inc.
  • UBS Securities LLC.

    *Banks which have been mentioned quite a number of times as well in this investigation, however always indirect.
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    FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:03 AM
    Response to Reply #64
    66. Do you know about
    Edited on Thu Sep-07-06 09:04 AM by FoxOnTheRun
    the Comprehensive Annual Finacial Report?

    The US Dollar is backed by oil since the 70's

    The real inflation can be hidden in the oil price

    Get yourself informed about "dollar hegemony"

    It's all a big ponzi sheme
    What's the real federal deficit? The federal government keeps two sets of books.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:59 AM
    Response to Reply #66
    68. Interesting part of the circular owning the owners of debt
    Edited on Thu Sep-07-06 10:00 AM by DrDebug
    I didn't know that they added that twist to their masterplan, so the government owns the corporations who in turn take ownership of the intentional debt. And others skim the proceeds as middlemen. Hmm, it sounds like the BCCI ponzi scheme on an even larger scale.

    It isn't just about the dollar. Even though the Euro is a recent invention, they had the choice between a gold or silver (even better) backed currency produced by the countries themselves, or alternatively a central bank owned by a select group of not officially disclosed private banks. What they forgot to put in their propaganda, is that they choose the latter and even though it seems to involve some more recent local banks, the overall ownership is of course similar to the Dollar and the Pound.

    Warburg Bank, Hamburg
    One of the largest banks in the world

    After all Mr. Warburg, Mr. Rothschild and Mr. Morgan don't want to gamble on one currency and prefer to skim all currencies making it irrelevant whether one becomes less valuable, because that merely implies that another currency will become more valuable.

    Since you are from Germany, check out Warburg, Hamburg ( ) (Indeed it is owned by family of Paul Warburg who created the Federal Reserve Bank). Notice how small the building of the bank is. Yet, it is one of the largest banks in the world. It doesn't have that many costumers either. It just scams billions each year for doing nothing. The others are equally unimpressive from the outside...
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    FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 10:25 AM
    Response to Reply #68
    69. Did you read the book link I provided?
    Edited on Thu Sep-07-06 10:31 AM by FoxOnTheRun

    Paul and Max Warburg influenced a lot in this world

    As far as I can see it, the EUROPEAN Union is a corporation and the revenues go the shareholders of the banks.
    At least that was what I got after I read the constitution which is still not fully accepted by all countries.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 10:46 AM
    Response to Reply #69
    70. The Warburgs are by the far the smartest manipulators
    Edited on Thu Sep-07-06 10:47 AM by DrDebug
    I'm sure that 99% of the world think that they are just a small regional bank with only one office, because that's what they appear on the outside. Yet they are one of the biggest players in the world who also own many other corporations either directly or by proxy.

    I mean we can talk about the Bush family, Greenberg family, Rothschild family and Rockefellers, but the Warburg family literally knew how to make money out of nothing.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 11:17 AM
    Response to Reply #69
    73. The point is that stockholders have not been officially disclosed
    So you have widespread speculation that the usual suspects control most of it, but no official publication whatsoever about who that corporate private central bank.

    It's like the Bank of International Settlements who preferred to meet anonymously in an abandoned six story hotel until after 40 or 50 years they were finally forced to have a public meeting. That international central bank is just as mysterious. Jay Epstein wrote a beautiful story about it:
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 11:09 AM
    Response to Reply #66
    72. Interesting FOTR, thanks for links.eom
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 11:04 AM
    Response to Reply #64
    71. woah, that list looks familiar.eom
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:38 PM
    Response to Original message
    74. And yet another...
    must kick!
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    pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 10:00 PM
    Response to Original message
    75. Had a thought about this...govt LIHOP and corporate MIHOP ?
    Edited on Thu Sep-07-06 10:02 PM by pauldp
    perhaps just a stand down so to speak from the W. admin (no planes scrambled until after the hits)
    with the private sector doing the heavy lifting without the admin knowing the details. Perhaps?

    on edit:
    of course the administration would help the coverup but they've already been caught doing that.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-08-06 01:47 AM
    Response to Reply #75
    76. It looks that way for WTC, but not for the Pentagon
    The Pentagon was probably still mainly a military operation and is therefore much more secretive. A lot of people in government would have known and specifically Rumsfeld, Cheney, Jeb Bush, Ashcroft, Bremer, Giuliani, since they had to play a part in the overall game. The whole concept of privatization is that the government didn't want to get their hands dirty, because mistakes are always made and it is much easier to deny in a corporate setting, because you can always call it some rotten apples in the organization who were working for al-Qaeda.

    As in all secret operations people are only told the bare minimum of what they are allowed to know, so George was just probably told to read My Peat Goat and look silly, while evil geniuses like Bremer and Cheney probably knew their entire masterplan. Most corporations in WTC probably only knew the date, that the building was going to be destroyed, and received a list of companies which they could play with on the stock market in order to grab a small bonus of several dozen million.

    The Pentagon however makes it clear that the military is involved and wanted their share of terrorism as well. Given their more effective organization and secretive nature it is this group which is more or less a complete mystery unlike the secret services and the corporations which do not have the discipline to accurately hide their secrets.

    It is possible that the World Trade Center idea was conceived by corporate group themselves, because they had two half empty buildings which were costing them millions each year and that started almost immediately after the buildings were erected. Then we the neocons who want to subject the population to a severely traumatic event as a means to start large scale wars and restrict freedoms. Overall it is a different motivation, the banks and insurance companies are motivated by excessive greed while the neocons are motivated by a Hegelian view of chaos, because that allows them to assert control.
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    FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 09:03 AM
    Response to Reply #75
    78. There is no real government

    "The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial
    element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since
    the days of Andrew Jackson."
    -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
    (1882-1945), 32nd US President
    November 21, 1933
    Source: in a letter written to Colonel E. Mandell House

    Mandell House was Roosevelts handler, so to speak
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 09:20 AM
    Response to Reply #78
    79. Two more speeches. Dwight Eisenhower and Harry S. Truman
    Edited on Sat Sep-09-06 09:24 AM by DrDebug
    Even though Dwight Eisenhower is an old right winged iron monger, it is today that his words sound like a radical left winged liberal. So what exactly happened in those intermediate years?

    In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

    We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

    President Dwight David Eisenhower, January 17, 1961

    The speech was supposed to be about the Military Industrial Congressional Complex however objections were raised and the speech was changed and the congressional part was removed from the speech. You can read about the original speech which Dwight Eisenhower intended to give here:

    Harry S. Truman speech

    I think it has become necessary to take another look at the purpose and operations of our Central Intelligence Agency CIA.

    For some time I have been disturbed by the way the CIA has been diverted from its original assignment. It has become an operational and at times policy-making arm of the government. This has led to trouble and may have compounded our difficulties in several explosive areas.

    We have grown up as a nation, respected for our free institutions and for our ability to maintain a free and open society. There is something about the way the CIA has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our historic position and I feel that we need to correct it.

    Harry S. Truman, December 22, 1963

    Please note the date. It is believed that the speech was given in direct reference to the JFK assassination.
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    FoxOnTheRun Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 09:34 AM
    Response to Reply #79
    80. Eisenhower was a General
    Edited on Sat Sep-09-06 09:42 AM by FoxOnTheRun
    he has seen WWII, he is a human being and unlike the chicken hawks knows what war is.

    I think with the Carlyle group we have the thing he warned of.
    Once you realize the same people finance both sides it all becomes joke.

    some quotes by Reagan

    How can a president not be an actor?

    It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.
    Ronald Reagan

    The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would steal them away.
    Ronald Reagan

    To paraphrase Winston Churchill, I did not take the oath I have just taken with the intention of presiding over the dissolution of the world's strongest economy.
    Ronald Reagan

    Well they know what they are doing
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    seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:55 AM
    Response to Reply #79
    84. .
    Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 10:56 AM by seemslikeadream
    "In a time of universal deceipt, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" ~ George Orwell
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-23-06 03:39 AM
    Response to Reply #79
    94. Interesting and was it you who posted the correlation between
    JFK's assassination and his attempt to make "the Fed" public? I think you posted that, I read it awhile back.
    If 9-11 is exposed it might have been almost a good thing if it will bring what's been going on to light, although when I think of what those people went through I can't really say that, I feel hatred for the perps when ever I think of the horror of those people stuck in the buildings (and the perps weren't Islamic Fundamentalists).
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-23-06 04:48 AM
    Response to Reply #94
    95. I think it is one of the reasons behind JFK
    Edited on Sat Sep-23-06 04:49 AM by DrDebug
    The main reason IMO is that Lyndon Johnson wanted to become President and the Kennedy wanted to get rid off him, since he was a scandal magnet and there quite a number of statements by JFK that he didn't trust LBJ. The second reason - which probably got it started - was the CIA, because their organization was under great scrutiny from the Kennedy administration given the Bay of Pigs and other scandals. The third reason is probably the Vietnam war and that the Military Industrial Complex wanted to escalate it into a full scale war. As always it is more a whole series of events which lead to the situation (9/11 is like that as well) and various groups conspiring together to enable the atrocity.

    Executive Order 11110 was important and it was reversed after his presidency. They actually removed all the interest free - and constitutionally approved - money.

    Executive Order 11110 AMENDMENT OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 10289


    By virtue of the authority vested in me by section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, it is ordered as follows:

    Section 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 19, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended-

    By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j):

    (j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section 43 of the Act of May 12,1933, as amended (31 U.S.C.821(b)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denomination of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption

    and --

    Byrevoking subparagraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 thereof.

    Sec. 2. The amendments made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made.

    John F. Kennedy The White House, June 4, 1963.
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 08:41 AM
    Response to Original message
    77. 9/9 kick
    Read all these stories during the weekend and when somebody asks you about 9/11 on the fifth anniversary of the massacre, you might actually have a story tell.

    For nothing is hidden, that will not be revealed; nor anything secret, that will not be known and come to light.

    Luke 8:17
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 03:06 PM
    Response to Original message
    85. 2006/09/11:00:04:00 Baghdad time kick
    Only four minutes late LOL
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    dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 09:45 AM
    Response to Original message
    86. Great Job
    kicking for truth on 9-11
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 03:14 PM
    Response to Reply #86
    87. Thanks
    Today is a day of sorrow. It's been five years already. I'm drunk already as well. It's was that kind of day.

    To people of New York. Let's hope that they find the strength and the courageous to prevent this ever happening again.
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    Not Sure Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 02:59 PM
    Response to Reply #87
    88. Amazing resource
    Thank you
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    DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 03:14 PM
    Response to Reply #87
    89. Make mine a double
    Thanks for all your hard work.

    From a former NYer :toast:
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 10:32 PM
    Response to Original message
    90. Just have
    to kick this again!
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-23-06 02:14 AM
    Response to Original message
    93. Kick n/t
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 06:39 PM
    Response to Original message
    96. Another 9/11 survivor: Sarah Ferguson was supposed to be in WTC 1


    12 September 2001

    Duchess Escapes Death In Manhattan

    The Duchess Of York narrowly escaped death - after her car carrying her to the World Trade Center in New York was stuck in traffic. Yesterday morning Sarah Ferguson and her assistant Kate Waddington were in a taxi, on their way to a business meeting in the World Trade Center - which collapsed after two suicide planes crashed into them. The duchess was due to meet Ken Merlo and Johnny O'Sullivan - who run her stateside charity Chances For Children - whose office was situated on the 101st floor. Both Merlo and O'Sullivan were absent from the building when the tragedy occurred. Her spokesman says, "The Duchess of York is desperately upset for everyone involved in this terrible tragedy. It is unbelievable, she was just a few minutes away when the explosion took place."
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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-07-06 08:36 PM
    Response to Reply #96
    98. Chances for children
    Edited on Sat Oct-07-06 09:21 PM by mirandapriestly
    Wasn't it nice of Cantor Fitzgerald to let them use their office?

    Fergie was on her way to a meeting in the offices of her US charity Chances for Children. The two men who run the charity, Ken Merlo and Johnny OSullivan, would normally have been at their desks on the 101st floor of one of the buildings when the attack occurred, but had left to escort the Duchess to the meeting.

    The charity had been given space near the top of the tower by financial firm Cantor Fitzgerald. A call to the firms offices made just after the attack was answered with the chilling information, Were dying, against the sound of screams in the background. The line then went silent.

    edited because I might have had the wrong "chances for children"
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 01:20 AM
    Response to Reply #98
    99. It is a questionable charity as well
    The moral of the story: Don't let Cantor Fitzgerald administer a charity

    Despite written requests from NYPAS ( ) at the Better Business Bureau Foundation, this organization either has not responded to NYPAS requests for information or has declined to be evaluated in relation to NYPAS Standards for Charity Accountability. While participation in NYPAS charity review efforts is voluntary, NYPAS believes that this lack of cooperation may demonstrate a lack of commitment to transparency and accountability. Without the requested information, NYPAS cannot determine if these charities adhere to the Standards for Charity Accountability. The vast majority of New York charities contacted by NYPAS provide information and participate in the NYPAS evaluation program.

    Their British office did finally give some accountability after years of requests. It took them up until 06 Dec 2005, to submit their accounts regarding the 9/11 fund given into their care.

    Notice that they about half of their income was spend on charity and that the rest was lost as organizational expense. Yet their US branch claims at they had a perfect 100% of their $23M raised without providing accountability of course ( ). Notice that the Red Cross (notorious for their inefficiency only spend 60%) and the Salvation Army (one of the most efficient charities spend 96%).

    There were quite a lot of strange 9/11 charities:

    The Non Profit Times

    Sept 1, 2006

    Fast Track To Nowhere
    Few 9/11 groups still in operation

    By Don McNamara and Mark Hrywna


    Reporters and editors of The NonProfit Times then set out to find the organizations via telephone, email, Web searches and in- person visits. They found:

    * 303 nonprofits are listed by the IRS on its files of organizations receiving expedited 501(c)(3) approval after September 11, 2001;
    * 38 of those organizations have ceased operations, as reported to The NonProfit Times by individuals knowledgeable about them;
    * 23 of the 303 organizations are still in operation, although they might have altered or expanded their mission since 2001;
    * 99 organizations could not be reached by telephone (in some cases with a follow-up email). The NonProfit Times sent a letter to each one of those organizations;


    Ironically, Cantor Fitzgerald, the company that employed Chris and Tom Burke, was connected to one of the nonprofits that could not be contacted by telephone and that did not respond to a letter, The Cantor Fitzgerald Relief Fund. This was one of several nonprofit organizations that were formed by a for-profit company because many employees of the company were lost in the attacks.


    But then again, Cantor Fitzgerald is a brilliant company.

    Posted on 13 Dec 2001 at 10:48.05 AM

    Cantor Fitzgerald has a terrible record of treatment of minorities...

    'Mark Anderson, a southern California native, once worked for Cantor Fitzgerald, a securities trading firm which handles four times the amount of money New York Stock Exchange does, and likely manages your pension. Mark was repeatedly harassed and emotionally tortured while working for Cantor Fitzgerald.


    A co-worker, Mark's only friend at Cantor, who had tragically lost an arm in a childhood accident, witnessed most of the abuse Mark suffered. Members of senior management would greet him every day by asking him if he had stump ****ed anyone lately. Eventually, after suffering these abuses and more, Mark was fired.'
    These events are detailed in the HBO Documentary, 'Out at Work'.

    Originally posted at

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    mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:01 AM
    Response to Reply #99
    100. Very questionable.
    At first I thought it was something associated with the global finance company ING, but then I found that it was started by Fergie herself and called Chances for the Children here and Children in Crisis in Europe. In one article it says the "staff" got out of the building by going to meet her and in another it said that Merlo had not gotten in yet, in yet a third they were together and they heard about the plane and the wtc. Then, one says that she was only blocks away from the wtc , then she said on Larry king that she was on Goodmorning AM at the time.
    One of the staffers said it was like the "Make A Wish Foundation", it gave to individual children, but then there's this article saying she got together with someone from the Defense Department to send supplies to Afghanistan.
    In any case, there is no indication the charity exists in any form in the U.S. any more, the web site is gone. So, something is not right.
    Then the assistant, O'Sullivan says she started the charity in 1994, but she said in 2002 that she started it "6 years ago", but then she talks about the great work they did at the Oklahoma City Bombing in 1993!
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-07-06 05:18 PM
    Response to Original message
    97. October kick + Short summary
    Edited on Sat Oct-07-06 05:20 PM by DrDebug
    Read a short summary of this whole thread at:
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-23-06 01:14 PM
    Response to Original message
    101. Peter Kiewit Sons and the Franklin Credit Union
    In part II of the John O'Neill series we discovered that Mass. Electric Construction has an unlisted office on the 84th floor of WTC2. The office was discovered thanks to unblinking who listed all the companies in the telephone directory who had an office in the World Trade Center since many were not listed on the tenant listings. The irony about Mass. Electric is that nothing is known about them and 9/11 despite being in the impact zone and that they specialize in wiring which is pretty useful if you want to rig a building for controlled demolition.

    The old post:

    In the old post it was also mentioned that they are a subsidiary of Kiewit Corporation whose former CEO Peter Schneidkraut left in December 2001 to start his own business and was doing things like the Restauration Project of the New Jersey to the World Trade Center Station in Manhattan, New York.

    I was reading "Follow The Yellow Brick Road" and in the chapter about Poppy's Zapata, the following item caught my eye:

    Follow The Yellow Brick Road: From Harvard to Enron
    Part Two
    By Linda Minor


    After Zapata lost its attempted takeover and accepted greenmail from United Fruit in 1969, Eli Black took charge of United Fruit. He expanded horizontally from tropical fruit into meat-packing and food packaging and distribution. This was a globalization model that was matched by Murdock's Pacific Holdings in the direction it took Zapata. Murdock Investment Co. acquired the food packaging company Continental Can in conjunction with Peter Kiewit & Sons (3) -- a road construction company in Omaha, Nebraska that built more miles of interstate highways than any other company


    (3) Peter Kiewit Sons, Inc. played a very significant role in the Franklin Credit Union pedophilia scandal that occurred in Nebraska in the 1980's. (See ). The legal documents involved in the trusts involved in the Kiewit companies sound like the same pattern used in the syndicate documents described in Part Two-B. This scandal was covered by John DeCamp's book, the Franklin Cover Up, which is available from,4,02,harvardtoenronpt2.htm

    So what is there about the Franklin Coverup and Peter Kiwiet & Sons.

    The Nebraska Connection: An Explosive Imbroglio Shared by Dick Cheney and the Bush Family
    by Linda Minor


    Franklin Credit Union's financial and corporate ties

    According to John DeCamp, FirsTier Bank "was the bank Larry King's pilfered $40 million passed through, without anybody batting an eye." In 1987-88, at the time of the Franklin Credit Union scandal was revealed, there were two men serving on the board of FirsTier Financial, Inc. who were also directors of a company called Valmont Industries--Robert H. Daugherty and William F. Welsh II.


    Another thing that stands out is the obvious connection between the FirsTier Financial and Peter Kiewit Sons, Inc. The latter company controls the Kiewit Royalty Trust, which was created under a Trust Indenture dated May 17, 1982 by Peter Kiewit Sons', Inc., a Delaware corporation to provide "an efficient, orderly and practical means for the administration of income received from certain royalty and overriding royalty interests in certain coal leases." The Trust has no active plan of business operation and was set up to distribute income to holders of Units. (The trustee of the Trust is First Bank, National Association ("Trustee"), Omaha, Nebraska, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of First Bank System, Inc., a registered bank holding company. First Bank, National Association is a successor to FirsTier Bank N.A. Omaha, as a result of the merger of FirsTier Financial Inc., the parent holding company of the former trustee, with and into First Bank System, Inc.


    Conspiracy for the Day -- Greatest Hits
    ("Quid coniuratio est?")

    A clique of freemasons -- the chief executives of Union Pacific
    Railroad, Con Agra, Peter Kiewit and Sons, Mutual of Omaha and
    the Omaha *World Herald* -- served as Franklin's Advisory Board
    and conduited funds from their own firms and from the Boys Town
    orphanage into Franklin's accounts.

    So was Peter Schneidkraut CEO of Kiewit in 1993? It can't be can it?

    Peter S. Schneidkraut, P.E.
    Offical biography

    Mr. Schneidkraut retired as President of Kiewit Constructors,
    Summary: Inc. at the end of 2001, after serving in that position since the beginning of 1993. The company has been a wholly
    owned subsidiary of Peter Kiewit Sons Inc. since late 1988
    and was previously known as Grow Tunneling Corp.

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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 05:13 PM
    Response to Original message
    102. Has anything...
    of this sort been shown to reporters like Olberman or anyone who might get these facts exposed on national TV?

    How much do you rely, if any, on Hopsinger's reporting?
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    spillthebeans Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 06:59 PM
    Response to Reply #102
    103. NBC?
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:13 AM
    Response to Reply #102
    105. This story is far too hot for the media, but there's a glimmer of hope
    The media are too much controlled right now to report it. Hopsicker has been mainly used for the drugs angle and the al-Cokeda topic contains some single sourced material, but many other things could be verified from other sources. Hopsicker is solid in his investigation, but not in his conclusions which are always over the top.

    Talking about al-Cokeda. There is an interesting development in the Netherlands. Two reporters from the largest newspaper were working on a story which exposed that there was large scale participation of the dutch intelligence (AIVD) with the drugs mafia, millions in bribes were paid to the police and justice department, and that the secret files of the intelligence ended up at the drug mafia.

    The AIVD took revenge by threatning to jail the reporters

    Journalists face jail over spy sources

    Thursday 16 November 2006

    Two journalists from the Telegraaf newspaper face being sent to jail for refusing to reveal their sources at the AVID (Secret Service), despite a court order. At the beginning of this year, Bart Mos and Joost de Haas reported that AIVD files on crime boss Mink K and government corruption had fallen into the hands of organised crime groups.

    Last week they jailed the two reporters. The results is that for three days running the Telegraaf has been running full front page story on their newspaper screaming unconstitutional, freedom of press, corrupt intelligence, corrupt judges etc. and the television stations (17 stations across Europe) they own is in full anti intelligence mode as well.

    Journalists spend third night in jail

    Wednesday 29 November 2006

    Two journalists who have been in jail since Monday for defying a court order and refusing to reveal their sources have spent another night in prison after a court in The Hague failed to reach a decision on their case. The court is expected to rule today (Thursday)

    Thousands of people have come out in support of Joost de Haas and Bart Mos, who wrote a series of articles for the Telegraaf newspaper based on contacts at the secret service AIVD.

    The stories revolved around links between crime bosses and government officials and revealed that AIVD files had been sold to notorious underworld leaders. The journalists have refused to say who passed on the secret information, arguing that this would deter other sources from coming forward.

    In an open letter to the judges published in Wednesdays Telegraaf, they said that a free press can only function if people are prepared to pass on sensitive information to journalists. Your decision to remand us in custody threatens the free press. We do not want to live in a society where the media are unable to do their jobs, they wrote.

    MPs from all parties have condemned the arrests, as have international journalists organisations. Prime minister Jan Peter Balkenende declined to comment directly on the case but said press freedom was something to be cherished. Labour (PvdA) leader Wouter Bos said he was extremely concerned, while the Liberals pledged to raise the issue in parliament.

    Around 60 journalists staged a demonstration outside the court on Wednesday.

    This means that at one large media group is going anti-Intelligence and already promissed to use everything in their power to have their reporters released. And undoubtly they are bound to reveal much more. The interesting part is whether this is the same group who is in Venice (Dekkers / Kruithof) because that was very much a German/Dutch consortium who set up shop there. It is now clear that the Dutch intelligence and the drugs mafia have very close links and even jail reporters who dare to talk about their links. On the Venice side it is clear that the CIA was involved with the drug dealing, so it's the same story the drugs dealers in the foreground with the intelligence agencies in the background.
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    John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 07:13 PM
    Response to Original message
    104. Have you seen this DrDeBug? Former AIG boss eyeing NY Times takeover: CNBC
    NEW YORK (Reuters) - Maurice Greenberg, the former head of insurer American International Group Inc. (AIG.N: Quote, Profile, Research) is interested in launching a takeover for all of New York Times Co. (NYT.N: Quote, Profile, Research), CNBC television reported on Wednesday, citing unnamed sources.

    The report came after the New York Post said that Greenberg has been buying shares of the company to try to break the Sulzberger family's hold on the media group.
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 12:19 PM
    Response to Original message
    106. yet...
    another kick
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    WalcottNorfolk Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 07:10 AM
    Response to Original message
    107. Awesome. Why is this not in the news papers?
    Any progress on 7/7 as well, because I am amazed to see that September 11 was been investigated this far.
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    DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 04:48 PM
    Response to Reply #107
    110. Don't believe what the M$M tells you
    there's a lot of good 9-11 research on the Internet.

    One thing is certain, the Official Conspiracy Theory aka OCT is about as credible as Intelligent Design.

    BTW: Welcome to the DUngeon :hi:
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-26-06 08:09 PM
    Response to Original message
    108. arrest ....
    somebody already!
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 04:22 PM
    Response to Original message
    109. nor this!
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 01:58 AM
    Response to Original message
    111. exposure...
    is a good thing!
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 10:49 PM
    Response to Original message
    112. bada...
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    BushLiesDaily Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 11:04 PM
    Response to Original message
    114. Kick
    amazing research here in the dungeon...

    Thanks DrDebug
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    Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 11:58 PM
    Response to Reply #114
    115. This truly is amazing research n/t
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-21-07 03:26 PM
    Response to Original message
    116. must
    kick! :hi:
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-23-07 12:52 PM
    Response to Original message
    117. just one more time...
    for the good times.
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 12:10 PM
    Response to Original message
    118. .......
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 01:48 AM
    Response to Original message
    119. DrDebug....
    Where ya been? :shrug:
    Kick! :hi:
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    seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 04:14 PM
    Response to Original message
    120. One of the most important threads
    here in the dungeon.

    Thank you DrDebug
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 11:34 AM
    Response to Reply #120
    121. In 100% agreement...
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 10:47 AM
    Response to Reply #121
    122. kick!
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    seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 09:34 AM
    Response to Original message
    123. PULL IT
    'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.'
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    DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 12:22 PM
    Response to Reply #123
    124. Push the counter propaganda. No planes

    At the time of writing the summary it wasn't completely clear whether or not planes were used. Killtown gathered all 38 videos which are known of the WTC2 impact ... and ...

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    Please pick your favorite plane. We have fast planes, slow planes, big planes, small planes, planes flying level, planes coming in from above, one plane coming in from below, one video without any plane whatsoever, a video with the explosion starting before the plane arrives, one video with the plane leaving the building on the other side before explosion, planes with wings and planes with partial or missing wings.





























    29 (Probably the same as 28)










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    Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 05:23 PM
    Response to Original message
    125. a kick for all the LaRouchies out there
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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 04:57 PM
    Response to Reply #125
    126. do we have LaRouchies here!?
    Who are they? :shrug:
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    seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 05:15 PM
    Response to Reply #126
    127. name calling
    playground stuff, you know

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    wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 09:42 PM
    Response to Reply #127
    128. yep! n/t
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