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Comadreja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 01:47 AM
Original message
Jewsish reform movement challenges settlements
Reform Movement Changes Name, Continues Move Toward Tradition; Rabbi Yoffie Challenges Israeli Settlements
Allan C. Brownfeld, Editor
Special Interest Report
January - February 2004


http://www.acjna.org/article_view.asp?article_id=313
At its 67th biennial conference in Minneapolis in November, the Union of American Hebrew Congregations changed its name to the Union for Reform Judaism and continued its movement toward more traditional religious observance.

Rabbi Eric Yoffie, the president of the group, “signaled a heroic shift in North America’s largest Jewish denomination at its 1999 biennial with a worship initiative urging synagogues to use more Hebrew in prayer and reassess communal worship,” reports the Jewish Telegraphic Agency. “His call came after a statement of principles by the movement’s Central Conference of American Rabbis ... sought ‘renewed attention’ to Jewish commandments, or mitzvot ... For many of the 4,500 movement leaders and activists who gathered in Minneapolis, change remains an article of faith. Daily and evening prayer sessions ... echoed to crowds of dozens, with those praying donning yarmulkes and prayer shawls. The event also saw its first all-Hebrew prayer session.”

In a major policy address, Rabbi Yoffie was critical of Jewish settlers in Gaza and the West Bank: “Not all settlers are extremists. But their leaders are trying to impose an endless war on Israel and the Jewish people. For these zealots, their right to live anywhere in the historic Land of Israel takes precedence over Israel’s democracy and, indeed, over her very existence. But I do not believe now, and I have never believed, that they speak for the Israeli majority.”

Yoffie declared that, “In 1980 there were 5,000 settlers in the West Bank and Gaza. In 1993, the number grew to 115,000 settlers, and today there are 230,000 settlers. If settlement growth continues, in a very short time the Jewish and Palestinian populations will be so intertwined that separation will be impossible ... It is not our task to say what a final peace agreement should look like. But there will be no final agreement if settlement growth does not stop. There are those who say that terror must end first and that it is too early to consider such a step. This situation is far more complex. It is not too early; in fact, it is very nearly too late. With each passing day a two-state solution becomes more difficult....”

Yoffie called on Israel to dismantle all illegal settlement outposts and to impose a settlement freeze. The Forward (Nov. 14, 2003) noted that, “Both are conditions that Israel accepted in President Bush’s road map to peace, but have not been fully implemented. ... Yoffie told his followers that he felt compelled to speak out against Israeli policy out of fear that the rapidly increasing population of settlers — their numbers have doubled to 230,000 during the past decade — would soon make a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict impossible.(more)




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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Once the Peace Fence is complete, the settlements beyond the Fence will
most likely be vacated. The Palestinians can then enjoy the challenge of governing themselves and developing an open society.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Won't work because the fence isn't on the green line
.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Stealing land
The PA hopes, to gain a state by terrorism, not by negotiations. They think it is a show of weakness to negotiate. They are the ones who are trying to steal land, and eventually a state. They have rejected every offer and have sought only to win by terror.

This strategy is a non-starter.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Nope
the "facts on the ground" prove otherwise. Palestinians aren't stealing any land (not matter what some extremists want) as opposed to Israel that is de-facto annexing foreign land, building a wall, settlements, destroying Palestinian property and driving Palestinians out of their homes and land. That is a FACT. Reality. Not some IDEAS in some peoples minds. Big difference. Deal with it...
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Palestinians are indeed trying to take more land
Look at the Geneva accords that mandates a swatch of land through Israel from the West Bank all the way to Gaza.

Face it, there are, as yet, no formal borders. Whatever the final border will be between the current Israeli state and the future Palestinian one is yet to be decided.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Nope
the borders (after the extablishment of UN and being recognized) are very clear. The green line. Anything beyond that is land grabbing. Pure and simple...
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. So that corridor is land grabbing?
And any passage between the West Bank and Gaza are land grabbing?

I just want to be clear on your position.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. That could be
Edited on Wed Mar-24-04 08:18 AM by bluesoul
a matter of negotiations (and compensations) just as Jerusalem will be...
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GabysPoppy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Let me try to get this straight
First it's definately a land grab and all about the "green line"

then it's about "negotiations"

Any more sides you would like to take?
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Wow, beat me to it
I view the borders as negotiable and part of the process of creating a Palestinian state. It is clear that the Green Line will NOT be the exact border and it is only a rough starting point.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. At least
I am open to such possibilities, which I can't say for some of you and your rigid positions (no parting of Jerusalem etc)

But in the end, Israel will have to give up Gaza, The West Bank and the rest of the OT (that's why it's called the Occupied Territories) and all the illegal settlements...

Or there will never be peace
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. No matter what Israel does
There will never be peace.

Israel could surrender and all the Jews could move to the U.S. and Hamas and others would come after them here.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Palestinians will be able to
Edited on Wed Mar-24-04 08:35 AM by bluesoul
deal with their own extremist elements, especially once those factors won't have any more excuses (for any extreme measures) and the support among people wanting normal life will vastly dissapear. Unless you don't consider Palestinians human and believe they'r all "evil" and live only to kill Israelis, you too should believe in that in the end. Hopefully
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. When have they done this
How do they "deal" with the fact that some of those terror groups swear to destroy Israel and many of their own people want ALL the land to the sea?
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Aussie_Hillbilly Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. Evil
Unless you don't consider Palestinians human and believe they'r all "evil" and live only to kill Israelis

The Ariel Sharon fan club on DU believe exactly that. They find alternative ways to express it though.
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GabysPoppy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Please show me where you have been open to such possibilities
negotiate - To confer with another or others in order to come to terms or reach an agreement:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=negotiate

your second statement seems a contradiction in terms. You have already decided the outcome of these negotiations. Might I see your defnition of the word "negotiate", I am always willing to learn new ideas.

Let me guess - negotiate - verb, to "oh my" in lieu of an answer
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. If you can't
comprehend and see that I don't exclude negotiations then I can't help you. But only for minor changes. The core of what is Palestinian land has long ago been decided and internationally agreed (after 1948 and the creation of Israel).
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GabysPoppy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. You were going to show us something
We can wait.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Pull up a chair...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
GabysPoppy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Do you think it will be much longer?
I have a plane to catch in September

:shrug:
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Time to make a pitcher of lemonade. Land o' goshen!
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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. AGAIN, you 'misrepresent' your words as those from others

YOU asked for something

Now it's 'you were going to show us something'

why do you continue to do this?

Is this all you have left, jokes and misrepresentations?

Don't have much of a case I guess.

Yes, sharon and likud are leaving many of their backers with the pants down.

B
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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. Please provide where this was stated by the poster

that they were going to show you something.

I can wait
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Noon
it's pointless. I don't even bother much...
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. No it isn't that simple.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. Your opinions are not facts. Goodness gracious.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. The Peace Fence's location is temporary. If the Palestinian side wants
a state, they will find a partner ready to make adjustments.

But hey, we all know that.
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. I hope thats true ..
The Peace Fence's location is temporary.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
32. Locking
Per I/P guidelines

I/P related pictures are NOT allowed in the body of the post.

This story may be reposted without the picture.

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