Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Good fences, safe neighbors

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 04:33 PM
Original message
Good fences, safe neighbors
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/030811/opinion/11edit.htm

Taking him at his word, Israelis are right to believe that left with their arms the terrorists will sooner or later use them to kill innocent Israeli citizens and will use the temporary cease-fire to regroup, rearm, and re-enlist new suicide bombers. An endorsement of this view comes in a sinister interpretation of Abu Mazen's behavior by no less than Arafat's henchman Saeb Erekat, a Palestinian legislator, who said Abu Mazen is aiming to get Hamas and Islamic Jihad to agree to wait until the Palestinian state is declared before attacking Israeli targets. The sad reality is that Arafat remains the power--the rais--the undisputed ruler with the same kaffiyeh and olive uniform, while Abu Mazen is seen as a lightweight leader imposed from the outside. Arafat works publicly and behind the scenes to undermine Abu Mazen to prove that nothing can happen without Arafat. Arafat retains control, as noted here before, of most of the government institutions, such as the Palestine Liberation Organization's Executive Committee and the Fatah Central Committee, five of the seven security organizations, including the Army and its commanders, and the fighters of Tanzim, Fatah, and the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, and most of the administrators in the region. As one Israeli analyst put it, when Abu Mazen's government was born, Arafat made sure "it would be castrated." No one should doubt that Arafat's means to his political ends include terrorism.

snip

The security fence is no more than a response by the Israelis to a thousand days of terrorism with over 800 civilians killed--the vast majority women and children. It symbolizes Israeli revulsion at a Palestinian society that turns young people into time bombs and delights in the murder of Jews. Such a fence is hardly unusual. A similar fence has existed at the Gaza Strip, and to date, not one suicide bomber from this area has infiltrated, compared with 300 that over the past three years have simply been able to walk or drive into Israel from the West Bank. Along most of this frontier there are virtually no barriers of any kind. Israel has found it necessary also to fence its frontiers with Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. America has fenced off many parts of the Mexican border to deter illegal immigrants. There is a wall between the Greek and Turkish Cypriots, etc.

The Palestinians have challenged this fence as a "racist, Berlin Wall." It is an absurd comparison. The Berlin Wall was imposed on one people, Germans, by an alien power to stop East Germans from fleeing to freedom and democracy in West Germany. The Israeli fence will separate two warring people in order to protect citizens of Israel from being murdered and maimed by Palestinian terrorists. It is a defensive weapon and will undoubtedly be needed whether or not the end of conflict is reached.

And what is this fence? It is a combination of chain-link, barbed wire, and concrete barriers, plus a high-tech system of ground sensors, unmanned aerial vehicles, trenches, land mines, and old-fashioned dirt paths that will be swept clean each day so footsteps will show. Where Jewish and Palestinian population centers are close to each other, it will take the form of a high, concrete wall, not only to prevent infiltration by terrorists but also to give protection against light gunfire from Palestinian towns. Throughout, there will be passages permitted through guarded gates for legitimate Palestinian workers and farmers.

............................................................

excellent op-ed


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Err... right...
Edited on Sun Aug-03-03 04:44 PM by Darranar
The Wall is all for security. The Israelis are being mistreated in the peace process. Abu Mazen is a terrorist. :eyes:

The so-called "security wall" also ruins thousands of Palestinian lives and imposes borders before peace talks. Abu Mazen has shown far more effort for peace then Ariel Sharon, as evidenced by Sharon's absolute lack of humanitarian concern in his "secuirty projects" (the usual bulldozing homes, building more settlements, building the wall, mistreating Palestinians, etc.) The Israeli are not being mistreated. rather, they are favored. They are told by the roadmap that they must dismantle a handful of new settlements. The Palestinians still will have to live with thousands of people on their land.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Quick question
Would you have any problem if this fence had been built on the Green Line?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No...
Quick answer for a quick question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. And now, the not-so-quick answer...
I don't think building a wall on the Green Line is neccesary. I think that if the Israelis work hard for peace, as do the Palestinians, peace will be realized. If the Palestinian terrorists want to find a way to get inside Israel, they will.

The wall, in the absence of a workable peace plan, will accomplish nothing. And, of course, in order for me to fully support it, the wall would have to be removed, or at least opened wide, as soon as that peace plan is over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Did you note
The bit about no suicide bomber ever coming from Gaza? Doesn't that seem more than coincidental?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Read this article...
Edited on Sun Aug-03-03 05:12 PM by Darranar
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/fellows/israel/nf6.html

Note that though less suicide bombers have come from Gaza, plenty have bypassed the security. The Palestinians will be MORE determined if the West Bank as well is fenced off.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good neighbors, no fences required.
Heh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. 300 attacks --> 800 DEAD!!
SOME NEIGHBOR...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yah, some neighbor...
I mean, what neighbor would raid your cities, bulldoze your houses, and build a wall in the middle of your land?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Let me help you...
Its called COUNTERTERRORISM !!

I guess yassir should have taken that 95% deal that
was on the table.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Do you think the 800 dead was "worth it"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. WORTH WHAT??
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. btw...
ask yassir if all the dead palestinians was "WORTH"
starting INTAFADA-THE SEQUEL??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I'm sure he thinks it was.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The extra 5%.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. ohhhh...I get what your saying now....
so youre saying all those dead people on both sides
is cause arafat didnt get all he wanted...

when my president literally begged him to accept.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Not exactly.
I'm saying it takes two to tango.

In a negotiation, it ends when both sides refuse to
make further concessions. Neither side got what they
wanted, and both sides walked away.

Car dealers beg me to take their deal, that means squat.
"What do I have to do to get you to make a deal for this vehicle now?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. That's not counterterrorism...
Not even if you lovingly type it with yr caps lock on....

Bulldozing homes isn't counterterrorism. If you think it is, how about explaining how? Same goes for raiding cities and building a wall deep in the West Bank. Obviously you have a different belief than me, but when it comes to fighting terrorism, it's not an Anything Goes world where the effects on innocent civilians are brushed aside or ignored because some of us sometimes get confused and attempt to portray all Palestinians as terrorists...

Violet...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Agreed completely, Violet!
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Where did drdon go?
I wanted him to explain how the things he described are counter-terrorism. I wonder where he got to? And if he thinks it is counter-terrorism, that must mean he supports everything the US has done so far in The War Against Terror. Bombing Afghanistan and then leaving it in complete chaos, killing all those Iraqi civilians, and the treatment of prisoners in Guatanamo Bay, they must all be mere counter-terrorism measures if you look at things that way ;)

Violet...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Right...
It's counterterrorism to build a huge wall in the middle of someone's land?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
22. swing your partners dossey do...Hee Haw...
the farmer and the cowboys should be friends...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC