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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 11:05 PM
Original message
Left and gay in Israel
By GAL UCHOVSKY
11/02/2011 22:59

Having Liebermans followers embrace the gay community is a very positive development, even if their motivations arent pure.
Have you heard? November is Out in Israel month in Boston.The program was an initiative of Israels consul-general to New England, Shai Bazak, and will feature performances by gay heartthrob Assi Azar. Azar, a popular TV host in Israel, will screen his made-for-television coming-out film Mom, Dad, I have something to tell you to audiences around the Boston area, followed by panel discussions about life as an openly gay man in Tel Aviv.

The event makes Israel the only country in the world to run a campaign promoting its LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender) population. By any standard, that is a milestone. How did we get to the point where New England hosts an openly gay icon, with the full sponsorship of the Israeli government? A couple of years ago, right-wing foreign minister Avigdor Liebermans troops decided to use the boistrous, proud Israeli LGBT community as a vehicle to show the world that Israel is an advanced liberal democracy.

Gays, in their minds, are the clearest proof possible that Israel is the only modern, open oasis in an ever-more extreme Muslim desert.

Suddenly, the conservative Right was not only okay with LGBT, it was promoting it.
Israels minister of tourism, Moscow-born Stas Meseznikov (Israel Beiteinu), has been working closely for over a year with gay Tel Aviv municipality official Yaniv Weizman on a grand promotional campaign to attract European gays to visit Tel Aviv. The campaign succeeded in bringing almost 100,000 gay men and women to the country in 2011.

Earlier this year, the foreign ministry organized an exhibition of gay art in London and Manchester with works from some great Israeli talents. The Assi Azar US tour is the first US leg of this grand scheme


http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=244186
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. more / Israel has really become a place with no glass ceiling for gays
Israel has really become a place with no glass ceiling for gays, and Azar is a great example of someone whose gayness has become an advantage. Lieberman and co. know he is left-wing, and that when asked, he will explain that the occupation and gay rights are not an either/or. They really believe that selling gay Israel is a great PR move anyway and they will not be disappointed.

Gay Israel can just sit back and enjoy the ride.

The writer is a journalist, TV host, filmmaker and gay activist. He was recently named the most influential LGBT person in Israel
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holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm sure you've seen this
But it always brings a smile to my face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fMqrljT62s

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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I never saw that before
Ha Ha :)
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks it seems Gay Rights has become a means for rightwingers and Islamiphobes
of all kinds to gain support why David Cameron recently said that the UK would with hold aid from some of poorest countries on earth because of these countries abominable records on gays its a wondrous thing unless of course one scratches the veneer and finds he was going to do it anyway as part of the UK's austerity program, but stick the label Gay Rights on it and viola its a liberal cause I tell ya something to cheer never mind that the lives of children will be endangered

In fact here on DU a few weeks back there was a thread on another forum that extolled Geert Wilders because why he to supports Gay Rights must make a good guy right?

and now Avigdor Lieberman and his party wow will wonders never cease
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. So whats your point?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I think that should have been apparent in the post
but if you really need explanation it is that Gay Rights has been embraced or hijacked by the right wing as an apparent means of making inroads to the Gay community and its supporters in fact a while back there was a piece topside about Herman Cain saying he would have Gay staff members ect now if your okay with this then who am I but as a liberal or progressive or leftist or whatever label ones wishes to apply I find it a bit disturbing
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holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. So... just to get it straight
Throwing gay rights, women's rights, or even human rights under the bus to support Palestinian aggression against Israel is OK -- if it's done in the name of progressivism?

But, if conservatives support the rights of women, gays, or anyone else, it's a self-serving, cynical, politically-motivated ploy?

Got it...
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I mentioned none of those things my point was about right wing politians
period seems you wish to this about something else entirely is that it?

but are you in favor of this type of support, is that now the standard in the Gay community?
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Is it standard in the straight community to support groups like Hamas
Iran or any other fucked up Islamic Government that wants to see all GLBT people dead? Just saying.

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. No but noI do not support Hamas or Islamists either but you did not answer my question either
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 01:02 PM by azurnoir
is any political figure who claims to support Gay Rights OK with you, I can not ask about the entire Gay community as it is too diverse
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Do you believe Israel's (secular) Right is just putting on a show about gay rights?
Is it that you cannot fathom the secular Right being liberal on social issues?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I believe they are not liberal on social issues in general as Pelsar pointed out
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 03:05 PM by azurnoir
they are anything but liberal when it comes to economic issues which for most are the benchmark of liberalism, but are on issues that can be used to further an otherwise rightwing agenda

eta I'll be waiting for the multiple replies gotta keep that comment count up along with the threads at the top of page
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Pelsar said they're liberal on social issues, not economic nor WRT national security. n/t
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 02:50 PM by shira
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. so you seperate 'social' and 'economic; how convenient
but you'll find most except here do not as social and economic directly affect each other
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. It's pretty common for politicians to separate them, but it's one of my pet political peeves
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 06:31 PM by LeftishBrit
Of course people can be left/liberal on one but not the other. But I don't think either attitude is truly left/liberal for everyone. As I keep saying: Economic liberalism without social liberalism leads to either a right-wing populism, which is at best only economically liberal for white males, or to the authoritarianism of Communist countries. And social liberalism without economic liberalism (e.g. the current British government) is only socially liberal for those who can afford it; living under the threat of severe poverty is just as harsh and coercive as living in fear of the police and the law.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #21
41. See Pelsar's #29 and you'll see they're socially & economically liberal. n/t
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. A lot of people here separate.
And are ready to accept minority discrimination for Palistinian " independence "
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
33. If they follow through with their support yes.
Did that answer your question?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Including Avigdor Lieberman and Geert Wilders? n/t
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. I was pretty clear in my answer.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. so that is a yes? n/t
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. "If they follow through with their support yes."
Do you need a translator?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. No I simply wanted confirmation
Edited on Sat Nov-05-11 09:13 AM by azurnoir
myself I can not be quite so absolutist I can support Obama due to his domestic policies despite disagreeing with him over his policies vis a vis Israel same with Al Franken
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. I never said I was a absolutist.
I can Support Lieberman on his stance For GLBT issues & not support him for his Hawkish stance.

But it seems you want to make it into a absolutist position for me while you leave yourself the luxury of being able to have a line item veto when it comes to your politicians.

That says all I need to know about you.
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. Nope, Williams got it right


;)
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. no holdencaufield got it right....
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 10:18 AM by pelsar
one can't' "Hijack" gay rights in israel...both left and right political viewpoints in israel believe in civil rights/minority rights in the society. The fact that the right is using the gay rights as an example of israel, the liberal country is a good reply to all those nonsense attempts at portraying israel as some kind of theocratic dictatorship.

furthermore it really clarifies where the western "liberals/progressives" put civil rights and nationalistic rights on the hierarchal scale-which is more important to them.

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I was not talking about just Israel however
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 12:55 PM by azurnoir
if you read the comment he was responding to but I am touched as to how some civil have become so important to Israel and its supporters like those of the Kurds and Armenians......
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. don't be....
this is about israel and its own moral compass and its always been part of the public "conversation"..that fact that many don't know about it or prefer not to know is what the gays of israel with lieberman have decided to change.

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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. here i'll explain......its not difficult
israel is a liberal society, that includes both right an left wings in which both sides believe in civil rights, which includes gays etc. Its now part of the culture. And being gay in israel does not mean one is automatically "left wing"

israelis believe that civil rights and minority rights have nothing to do with ones political point of view,

hence the right wing cannot hijack "civil rights"in israel
___________
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. If Likud is socially liberal, then what exactly separates them from Meretz, for example?
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 10:04 AM by shira
Is the big difference - or only difference - WRT peace and foreign relations?

Because if that's it, then essentially you're voting either for liberal hawks or liberal doves.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. its the amount of resources used....
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 10:24 AM by pelsar
for instance meretz when they had influence would put more of the govts resources in to education of the poorer townships, likud is more capitalistic and spend less on the weaker strata. Israel already has universal health care, subsidized higher education, etc

the whole civil rights/minority rights/gay rights is not a real issue in terms of the principle of them being regular citizens or not. The army, the holy grail of integrating citizens, has no issue with its gays.

There will be a argument/laws with the religious, but that is just a "subset" of their larger argument with the secular.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Lieberman's party Beteinu is for 2 states. Are they moderate, center right?
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 07:34 PM by shira
The Likud platform is still against 2 states so Beitenu is to the left of them, correct?

Is Beitenu socially liberal? Economically.......?

Very nationalistic, sure.

=====

Actually, I'm not sure what exactly separates the major parties from each other. Kadima and Labour are for 2 states too. Not as nationalistic as Beitenu. Maybe Labour is better on economic issues, but then what separates them from Meretz?

Thanks for answering!
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. All israeli parties are socially liberal....
Edited on Sat Nov-05-11 12:54 AM by pelsar
the american version of the economic/social far right doesn't exist in israel. No party talks about eliminating health care, the food subsdies, tuition subsidies, free social care care.

its just a matter of degrees....Netanyahu chooses a econ group that is far more "free market oriented" and opens up the market....one of the results are the higher prices, a massive protest starts and the working group will now produce solutions (more social oriented") to get the prices lowered. Israels foundation is socialist.

Stanly Fisher, the guy he chose to head the fed, is credited with creating a stable econ environment that we have in israel.

The larger separation between the secular parties is mainly foreign policy.
(the religious parties are very "social oriented" and want massive subsidies on everything..i guess that makes them more progressive than anything else)

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Little wonder why the vast majority of American Dems support Israel and in return...
Edited on Sat Nov-05-11 05:16 AM by shira
...why most Jews (some 80 percent) support the liberal Democratic platform.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Yes, apparently so, but I'll take it.
"many true words have been spoken through false teeth"
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Gay right are progressive values
Anyone not supporting them or even excusing

Others that discriminate against gays have no right

posting on a progressive website such as DU .

PERIOD!!
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. so in your mind supporting both Gay Rights and Palestiian self determination
is impossible, mutually exclusive of each other?
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. It's strange to see people So called "progressive "
But only for Palestine .. Weird!

If not for that issue some would be happy in a

Non democratic party platform , which is weird

in if itself considering the democratic party is pro

Gay pro Israel .
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. I don't think that it's common to do so, no
Right-wingers are mostly anti-gay-rights. Some like Cameron come into the 'social liberal but fiscal conservative' category, who are fairly reasonable on things like gay rights, but unfortunately are economic right-wingers. But they aren't economic right-wingers *because* they support gay rights, or vice versa.

It's a good thing that gay rights are being increasingly accepted in some countries to the point that even many Conservatives accept them. But it doesn't excuse the Conservatives for being economically right-wing, or hawkish, or xenophobic.

Lieberman has always been secular so I am not surprised that he accepts gay rights; it is religious parties like Shas that don't. Not that I can stand any of the right-wing parties.
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
49. What rubbish !! NT
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's sad when rightwingers stand up more for gays than leftwingers wrt I/P issues.
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 08:15 AM by shira
Polar opposites.

The right attempts to portray Israel in a favorable light WRT gay rights, providing a sharp contrast to the PA/Hamas.

The (far) left simply ignores/denies gay rights within Israel unless it can be used to bash Israel. The left could also care less about gay rights for Palestinians.

Sad.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
28. I've made 8 comments which garnered 15 replies -so far
Edited on Sat Nov-05-11 12:56 AM by azurnoir
of the 28 comments here, but it becaomes quite apparent that the rightwing is on to something here claim to be for Gay Rights and viola they're social liberal never mind their other views only one counts here

now I am done kicking this flame away and claim victory if only by outnumbering me but for me this has been quite revealing indeed it is amazing how many here can now claim to support Avigdor Lieberman,

thanks for playing

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holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. One Trick Pony
"...they're social liberal never mind their other views only one counts here..."

Gee... that is just what I would say of someone to whom gay rights, women's rights, human rights means NOTHING... just so long as they can bash Israel. Israel is socially liberal in a way that even most European Nations could not envision (let alone your own country). But to those who can't see past the end of their "I hate Israel" nose, they will never acknowledge it. Israel is a democracy, of course, and you'll see a vast range of political opinion expressed openly and freely, without censorship, in the forum of Israeli public opinion. But, if you examine the social and economic policies of Israel, you can't but agree.

You're views are so skewed that you will literally overlook anything as long as you can revile the Jewish State. Talk about your one-trick pony.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. so Israels occupation of the West Bank is a socially liberal enterprise on Israel's part?
n/t
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. It's not just social liberalism but mostly economic as well, as Pelsar noted in #29 above.
In addition, the majority is also for a peaceful 2 state solution.

Only the willfully blind one-trick ponies will ignore/deny all that in order to continue demonizing Israelis by portraying them as far rightwing trolls.




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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #28
37. A legend in your own mind.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. no simply pointing out fact at the time I posted seems to bother you though lol n/t
Edited on Sat Nov-05-11 09:27 AM by azurnoir
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. A pimple on my ass bothers me.
Someone that has the gall to declare victoy when there is nothing to be won or lost is just sad.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. well of that I am sure but I was not declaring my victory
but the victory of those I did not reply to I'll admit my wording was poor and your mistake was 'easy' to make
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holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Perhaps he just meant to say...
... Mission Accomplished
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. LOL. nt
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