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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 03:51 PM
Original message
Remembering Gaza
Looking beyond statistics, the future of the children of Gaza is at risk of being wasted due to politics.

David Miliband Last Modified: 17 Oct 2011 07:00

Government is all about statistics, but life is about people. That disjunction explains a lot about the cynicism and disaffection with politics that characterises much of the world nowadays. And, while domestic problems may seem intractable, distance increases the confusion and fatigue induced by seemingly intractable international problems. As usual, the people who suffer are those who most need the world's attention.

This is notably true of the 1.5 million people crowded into the Gaza strip, locked between Israel, Egypt, and the Mediterranean Sea. The West has already isolated Gaza's Hamas-controlled government. This week, the US Congress will discuss cutting off aid to the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority. But this is a time for more international engagement with the Palestinian people, not less.

The statistics say that 80 per cent of Gaza's population is dependent on UN food aid. The youth unemployment rate is 65 per cent. The website of the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs has a comprehensive database that shows how many trucks, containing different kinds of supplies, have been allowed in by the Israeli authorities.

The situation of the people - or rather the fight about their situation - is periodically in the news, most recently when violence broke the otherwise reasonably effective ceasefire in August. But Gaza has become the land that time - and the wider international community - forgot.

in full: http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/10/2011101413587720215.html
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks.
:thumbsup:
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. The wretched scandal of David Milibands liberal racism
Edited on Tue Oct-18-11 02:28 PM by shira
<snip>

Regardless of the facts on the ground, Miliband clearly was intent on advancing a narrative of Palestinian victimhood and Israeli villainy, and writes:

The situation in Gaza represents the ultimate failure of politics. Nearly three years ago, after the Gaza war, the international community was preoccupied with opening up Gaza. Three years on, there is a stalemate to match the wider stalemate in the wider search for a Palestinian state that can live alongside Israel.

The first responsibility is with Israel.


As theres no moral points to be scored in the UK by holding Palestinians responsible for their own continuing political failures, Miliband, in an over 900 word essay, only mentions Hamas, who rules Gaza, three times, and never in a way critical of the Islamist terrorist regime. Egypt, which also borders Gaza, is mentioned in passing only twice.

Does it occur to Miliband that, whatever economic deprivations exist in Gaza, Hamas is responsible for importing deadly weaponry into the territory, and firing thousands of rockets into Israeli towns, necessitating Israeli defensive measures and restrictions?

Does it occur to Miliband to hold Palestinian Gazans responsible for electing an Islamist group whose very founding charter calls the murder of Jews, and cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as proof that Jews are indeed trying to take over the world?

Nothing in Milibands essay acknowledges these facts, nor suggests that he assigns moral agency to Gazas leaders and citizens.

Jim Sleeper, in his book, Liberal Racism, defines the term thusly:

The condescension involved in setting the bar so low that one denies intended beneficiariesthe hard-won satisfactions of real growth and accomplishment; in short, one fails tohold them to basic standards of human decency and achievement.


The former foreign ministers CiF essay may have assisted his political career, but by setting the bar so low, and not demanding of the Palestinians in Gaza the hard-won satisfactions of real moral and political growth and accomplishments, nor to basic standards of human decency, he, as with so many Guardian left critics of Israel, fails to uphold genuine liberal values.

Milibands bigotry of low expectations hurts Israel for sure, but is much more injurious to the Palestinians.

http://cifwatch.com/2011/10/12/the-wretched-scandal-of-david-milibands-liberal-racism/
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Save the Children is anti-Israel too? lol. The list grows by the day I guess. n/t
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-11 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. They won't condemn Palestinian exploitation of children used in suicide attacks.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-11 05:06 AM by shira
The use of children in the conflict is a clear violation of the most basic of human rights, yet most major human rights NGOs, including Human Rights Watch, EMHRN, Oxfam, etc. responded to the abuse of Palestinian children for terror with deafening silence. Even those organizations dedicated specifically to the protection of children, such as Save the Children (www.savethechildren.org), did not condemn these violations.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article.php?id=494

I suppose the belief is that if we pretend the PLO and Hamas really aren't exploiting and abusing children in the most grotesque ways - at the state level - then it's really not happening. The PLO and Hamas couldn't possibly be state sponsors of such depravity.

Motivating children to seek Shahada
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=846

Child suicide bombers in the IsraeliPalestinian conflict
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

Apparently it's anti-Palestinian and racist to condemn that.

:shrug:
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Deafening silence? Your own links don't support the claim.
Save the Children, duly noted you have added them to your list of discredited sources and Physicians for Human Rights, Israel, included.

Save the Children:

Save the Children is one of the largest U.S. nongovernmental organizations working in the West Bank and Gaza addressing the immediate humanitarian and long-term development needs of children and adults. With over 30 years of experience on the ground, Save the Children is committed to building the capacity of and empowering our local partners to design, implement, sustain and monitor local development programs over the long term. Today, nearly half of our programs in the region are implemented through local partners in all of the major cities and surrounding villages of the West Bank and throughout northern and southern Gaza. With offices in Nablus, Halhoul, Ramallah, Gaza City and Jerusalem, our staff makes every effort to conduct programs even during the worst fighting, travel restrictions and blockades.

Challenges for Children
Children and their families living in the West Bank and Gaza are among the Middle East's most marginalized populations. The health of children is particularly at risk and the World Health Organization has expressed concern over the state of public health care in the West Bank and Gaza. Food insecurity is also on the rise; girls and boys under the age of five are particularly vulnerable with one in 10 suffering from stunting. Unemployment among Palestinians is also steadily increasing and currently stands at around 23 percent.

Our Response
In the West Bank and Gaza, Save the Children implements programs in the areas of education, economic opportunities and psychosocial health. In addition, our work in humanitarian assistance, child protection and youth development are crucial crosscutting themes in our programs.

in full: http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.6153151/k.5AE1/West_Bank_and_Gaza_Strip.htm
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. They didn't condemn PA/Hamas exploitation of Palestinian children as suicide bombers.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-11 07:29 PM by shira
AFAIK, they still won't condemn the PA/Hamas for encouraging children to be martyrs or militants.

Child suicide bombers in the IsraeliPalestinian conflict
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_IsraeliPalestinian_conflict#History

Their silence on this - while shifting all blame on Israel - makes them accessories to these abominable acts.

No decent person should support them.



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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-11 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You may want to check your link.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-11 08:47 PM by Jefferson23
Their silence that was not supported by your first link previously, but is supported with
this link..is that your claim?


on edit to add: No decent person should support Save the Children, according to you..ok.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. They're silent WRT not condemning the PA/Hamas for exploiting children for militarism, martyrism....
Edited on Thu Oct-20-11 12:44 AM by shira
What's difficult about this? More than any other NGO, they should be all over Hamas/PLO for that. HRW and Amnesty, to their credit, have in the past condemned Hamas/PLO for their grotesque child abuse. Not much, but some.

STC didn't condemn Hamas/PLO for their role in children becoming martyrs, militants, suicide bombers, etc.

But you think that's okay.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. here is Save the Childrens West Bank/Gaza link
http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.6153151/k.5AE1/West_Bank_and_Gaza_Strip.htm

and oh dear your right they do not condemn Hamas or the oh so evil PLO in fact they do not mention them at all but then again they do not mention Israel either, perhaps Save the Children is doing just that and doing it apart from politics

your condemnation of Save the Children could appear to spring from an 'your either for or against us' type of mindset?

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. STC has had plenty to criticize Israel about in the past. It's shameful defending them...
Edited on Thu Oct-20-11 04:21 AM by shira
...while they do nothing WRT the way the PLO and Hamas continue to abuse Palestinian children.

Let me know if you ever find them condemning PA/Hamas use of children as suicide bombers.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. So I guess Care International and Christian Aid would be on your list too right?
Gaza's humanitarian situation is at its worst since Israel occupied the territory in 1967, say UK-based human rights and development groups.

They include Amnesty International, Save the Children, Cafod, Care International and Christian Aid.

They criticise Israel's blockade on Gaza as illegal collective punishment which fails to deliver security.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7280026.stm
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. They're accessories to bigtime war crimes when they don't report Hamas/PLO for grotesque child abuse
I don't know how these folks live with themselves when essentially they're shills for the PLO/Hamas' palsbara propaganda war on Israel.

Shameless and despicable.

Not very progressive or liberal. In fact very far extreme rightwing....

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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Accessories to big time war crimes...I 'll add that to your list of
reasons why you have discredited them.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Can't say I'm shocked that you find nothing wrong with STC turning a willfully blind eye.
At least you're not denying Hamas and the PLO exploit Palestinian children into being martyrs, suicide bombers, combatants, and human shields.

But worse - you don't have a problem with it.

:shrug:

That gives you no credibility when you condemn Israel. You can't hypocritically call Israel out for crimes against Palestinian children while being perfectly alright with the manner in which those same children are abused by Palestinian leadership.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. You mean you're only adding me to your list now?
You're funny.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. it should be noted that they also do not condemn Israel for
jailing, beating, and even torturing these children either seems you do not have any problem with that?
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Oh come off it, there is no credible evidence the Israeli government does that.
:sarcasm:
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Obviously there's no credible evidence Hamas or the PLO uses children as combatants, shields, or...
...suicide bombers.

Right?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. so let's see Care International, Save the Children, Christian Aid are accessories to warcrimes ?
basically anyone who helps feed Palestinian children is an accessory to warcrimes I guess in your book I would guess
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. What else do you call it when an organization like STC turns a willfully blind eye to warcrimes...
...against Palestinian children committed by Hamas and the PLO for at least the last 2 decades?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Save the Children reported nothing on their site for or against either Israel or Palestinians
why does that bother you so much?
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I support their work, that you don't based on
a silence you define as menacing is duly noted. Your own links did not support you.

No decent person should support Save the Children, according to you. Your list is becoming more and
more interesting about who is credible and who is not.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Wait - there are tons of evidence and reports by other HR groups about Hamas/PLO using children...
Edited on Thu Oct-20-11 01:08 PM by shira
....as combatants, suicide bombers, and human shields.

This is grotesque child abuse and war crimes on top of war crimes.

The fact STC does not report on this - when they MUST know this happens - makes them accessories to these war crimes and shills for Hamas/PLO when they unload against Israel and cover for the Palestinian leadership.

I don't know how anyone decent can support their work.

Why do you believe they deserve support when they SPECIALIZE in children but turn a willfully blind eye to Hamas/PLO abuse of Palestinian children? Can you imagine being the parent of a Palestinian child used in such a manner by Hamas or the PLO, knowing groups like STC will neither do nor say anything about it?

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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Oh don't worry, you have been crystal clear. Save the Children
have acted as an accessory to big time war crimes, according to you. Their alleged menacing silence and all...ok.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. So you think it's okay for STC to ignore grotesque Hamas/PLO warcrimes vs. Palestinian children? n/t
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Placing your question framed in the affirmative is for the beginners group.
Let me know when you're adding any other group to your list.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Help me understand how an NGO dedicated to children deserves the support of decent people...
Edited on Thu Oct-20-11 01:34 PM by shira
...when that NGO deliberately turns a blind eye to the manner in which Palestinian leadership has used Palestinian children as martyrs, shields, militants, and suicide bombers.

I don't get it. Imagine you're the parent of one of these children exploited and used by Hamas or the PLO.

It's not like you're denying that Hamas/PLO actually does this, and has done so for the past couple decades.

STC deliberately ignores it and you're seemingly okay with that - to the point you'll support them.

Am I wrong? Am I missing something? How so?
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. You have NO EVIDENCE, but a twisted logic on alleged menacing silence.
You then take this and apply the charge of accessory to war crimes.

snip* Though his Save the Children project focuses on Gaza's side of the dispute, Pellegrin is careful to avoid bias. 'I cover both sides in my photography,' he says. 'I know many photographers who work just on the Palestinian side, but I've always tried to represent both.

'I have photographed victims of suicide attacks in Israel and obviously I condemn those actions. It's easy to put an entire people in a box. I don't divide the world into the good and the bad.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7682213/Gaza-Strip-the-children-with-nowhere-to-hide.html

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. No evidence of, what exactly? n/t
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Oh go play by yourself. If anyone is interested, they'll read the thread
through..I think most can figure it out.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Well, there's loads of evidence and reports by HRW, Amnesty about child militants, suicide bombers..
...and shields.

But nothing from Save the Children.

Are you saying I have no evidence Save the Children doesn't condemn Hamas/PLO for abusing Palestinian children?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Save the Chldren is about just that no politics involved
About Us
Results for Children, See our Interactive Annual Report

Save the Children is the leading independent organization creating lasting change in the lives of children in need in the United States and around the world. Recognized for our commitment to accountability, innovation and collaboration, our work takes us into the heart of communities, where we help children and families help themselves. We work with other organizations, governments, non-profits and a variety of local partners while maintaining our own independence without political agenda or religious orientation.

When disaster strikes around the world, Save the Children is there to save lives with food, medical care and education and remains to help communities rebuild through long-term recovery programs. As quickly and as effectively as Save the Children responds to tsunamis and civil conflict, it works to resolve the ongoing struggles children face every day poverty, hunger, illiteracy and disease and replaces them with hope for the future.

http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.6146405/k.C7E9/About_Us.htm

it could seem that you condemn any organization that helps Palestinian children without a political agenda?
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. They've slammed Israel in the past. PLO/Hamas, not so much. Not a peep about Israeli children....
...victimized by terror, but loads about Palestinian child victims of Israeli military actions.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Loads about the impact on child nutrition and the effects on child health in Palestine
for the most part they have though taken the Quartet to task over the situation
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-11 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. Gaza is the land that the international community forgot?
That's gotta be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. LOL
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. He's absolutely right that little attention is paid to this
When gaza does get international media attention nowadays, it's not about the plight of the children or the civilian population as a whole.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Totally not true
Gaza is constantly receiving scads of international media attention and there are frequent stories about the plight of children and the civilian population as a whole.

Easily one of the most internationally reported upon regions in the world by far and away.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Meanwhile, far worse around the globe is paid little attention by the UN and its fans. n/t
Edited on Thu Oct-20-11 01:24 AM by shira
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
36. I think you might be wrong on this one...
Here's what the author said: 'The situation of the people - or rather the fight about their situation - is periodically in the news, most recently when violence broke the otherwise reasonably effective ceasefire in August. But Gaza has become the land that time - and the wider international community - forgot.'

Since August I haven't seen 'scads of international media attention' about the plight of children and the civilian population of Gaza. The author is correct when he says it is periodic...

When you say 'region' do you mean Gaza itself, or the wider Middle East? Because 'scads' of reporting on a region or the Middle East means that it's about what the OP was talking about - the plight of children and the civilian population of Gaza...
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