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Senior Hamas Leader: Shalit Deal Proves Kidnapping Works

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vminfla Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:38 AM
Original message
Senior Hamas Leader: Shalit Deal Proves Kidnapping Works
Senior Hamas leader Khalil al-Hayya says the Shalit-for-terrorists deal proves kidnapping works, and he promises more abductions. The Israeli Cabinet late Tuesday night approved freeing kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit for 1,027 terrorists and security prisoners.

Al-Hayya, a Gaza legislator and a senior academic and political figure, told the Chinese news agency Xinhua, Our prisoners can only be released through this way. The release of prisoners will lead to a bigger victory and will break forever the siege that had been imposed on the Gaza Strip for five years.

Last week, he urged Palestinian Authority terrorists to kidnap more Israeli soldiers to gain the release of all prisoners, including terrorists, in Israeli jails.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/148713
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. this so-called "leader" is full of shit. It didn't help the Palestinian cause one bit. All it did
was bolster the egos of those involved on both sides


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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. What do you think is the "Palestinian cause?" n/t
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. a state, what do you think it is? and that answer and question does not imply that this hamas
Edited on Thu Oct-13-11 08:08 AM by still_one
representative wants that, or what the Palestinians want


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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Much more than that, and not that at all.
Depends on which Palestinians you're talking about. That's why this episode is a win for Hamas even though it may not advance the cause of a state at all. Hamas has other goals.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I don't deny that, however I still stick with my point that it does no good for the Palestinians or
Israellies

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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. You are prbably right about that, however, it does seem to have helped Hamas n/t
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vminfla Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Taking 1,000 terrorists and putting them back out on the streets
Is not good for anyone. The potential loss of life that will result when many of these individuals return to terrorism is incalculable.
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vminfla Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Clearly the Israelis must now contend with 1,000 more freed terrorists
And, since the objective of Hamas is the destruction of Israeli, this is in furtherance to their stated means. Granted, the average palestinian does not benefit. Then again, the average palestinian has never been served by the PA or the PLO or any other terrorist organization that purports to speak for them.
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vminfla Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Granted, any "leader" of a terrorist organization is no leader at all
But Khalil al-Hayya has learned from experience that terrorism pays. His organization is on the cusp of winning the release of many terrorists, some convicted with life sentences due to their heinous acts.

We can only find solace that the truly evil men like Marwan Barghouti will still remain behind bars.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. +1
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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obviously, he's right.
Kidnapping Shalit led to the release of at least 450 Palestinian prisoners, and maybe 550 to follow. It has led to an upsurge in sentiment for Hamas and the group that took Shalit. It led to the blockade of Gaza, Operation Cast Lead, and international efforts to break the blockade; all of which served to make Israel look bad, rally international opinion against Israel, and continually radicalize the Palestinians. From the standpoint of the rejectionists kidnapping Shalit has been a home run for them.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. sounds almost like 'wishful thinking' to me ?
any Hamas 'upsurge' will be quite short lived IMO as nothing else will change and as you have stated the second group of prisoners to be released is a 'maybe' because as you did not state Schalit is to be released after the first set is released but the agreement was for all 1000 of them
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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Don't be too sure about that.
For now, Hamas and the PA are the only players on the Palestinian political stage. The PA hasn't accomplished much, and has no credibility and no electoral legitimacy. Hamas is also past its elected mandated, but it at least has street cred. And yes, I did not mention the timing of the release of the second group of prisoners, as I assumed most people on this site keep up with the news, and were already aware of the deal. As you point out, that is the reason for the maybe.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. but in all reality nothing much that drove them from 'popularity' has or will change
and last I looked the Palestinian people seem to feel that the PA has plenty of legitimacy, the Palestinians are also quite realistic about the UN bid and what ever little the PA has accomplished it still outweighs Hamas who is also still firmly against the UN statehood bid, something that hasn't exactly scored them many points either ,it should also be noted that at least one very key prisoner is not going to be released that being Marwan Barghouthi and IMO that is due to Hamas not being veruy keen on a political challenger such as Barghouthi being free
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. +1 n/t
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Hamas makes its excuses re: Marwan Barghouthi
A newly signed prisoner exchange deal geared at releasing Israel Defense Forces soldier Gilad Shalit would have imploded if Hamas had insisted on the release of Fatah strongmen, the Gaza-ruling militant group said on Thursday.

Hamas' position concerning the Shalit prisoner swap deal was revealed following recent Palestinian criticism of the agreement, according to which Hamas should have secured the release of Fatah bigwigs Marwan Barghouti and Ahmed Saadat.

<snip>

A Palestinian official in Gaza told Haaretz on Thursday that Hamas feared harsh backlash from Palestinian prisoners' families once it becomes clear that many Palestinian faction heads and top prisoners will not be released as part of the deal.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-shalit-deal-would-have-failed-had-we-insisted-on-top-palestinian-prisoners-1.389707

I'm sure it that this had absolutely nothing to with Barghouthi and Saadat being members of the political opposition
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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Fair enough.
It would be interesting if real elections were held and Barghouthi won from his prison cell.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. yep and Former IDF Chief Rabbi Brigadier General Avichai Ronsky says
Ronsky: Shalit should have been declared dead

The former IDF Chief Rabbi Brigadier General (Res.) Avichai Ronsky on Tuesday said that Israel should not have strived towards a prisoner swap that included freeing terrorists in exchange for Gilad Shalit. He believes the captive soldier should have been declared a dead soldier that cannot be reclaimed.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4134448,00.html

all of which proves beyond any doubt that there are loud mouthed assh*les everywhere

Khalil al-Hayya is a Senior Hamas Leader? never heard of him before being a Senior Hamas Leader must be something like being Al Qaida's second in command
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. The myth of Hamas' victory Akiva Eldar
"Hamas' victory" is not the only myth blossoming on the Shalit deal. A whole bunch of "facts" go with it.

The deal will encourage other abductions for bargaining purposes. A quick look on a Hamas website or that of other organizations advocating a violent struggle will show that abducting Israeli soldiers and civilians remains a standing order. The Israeli governments' "firm stand" in the Ron Arad case did not deter the abductors of Nachshon Wachsman. The refusal of Yitzhak Rabin's cabinet to negotiate to free Wachsman and the (botched ) attempt to release him did not deter Shalit's captives.

Some of the 1,150 terrorists freed in 1985 in the Jibril deal caused the first intifada in 1987. First, the first intifada was not violent. Second, the intifada broke out because of the increasing rage among the young generation.

Deporting "heavy" prisoners is an Israeli achievement. The chances Israel took and the effort it put into the (botched ) attempt to murder Meshal in 1997 on an Amman street and assassinating Hamas man Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai show that exile can be an ideal habitat for master terrorists. It will be easier for Israel's security services to monitor militants in the territories and act against them when necessary.

Finally, the "fact" that Hamas has emerged as the big Palestinian winner from the deal is doubtful. Freeing Gilad Shalit took away the organization's strongest bargaining chip vis-a-vis Israel. The Israel Defense Forces' maneuvering room has grown, while shifting Meshal's headquarters from Damascus to Cairo will restrict its scope of operations.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/the-myth-of-hamas-victory-1.389781
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. At a time when Israel should have been trying to boost Abbas's status to help him undercut Hamas,
it's done the reverse.

We've seen

1) Abbas and the PA stake a lot of reputation on a non-violent attempt to gain UN recognition for a Palestinian state. This was shot down by Israel and the US.

2) Hamas stake a lot of reputation on the kidnapping of Shalit, and get much of what it wanted from Israel.


I think that this release will make it a lot harder for the PA to regain control of Gaza.
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vminfla Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. your second column highlights the fact that Abbas is not ready for the first
Clearly a group embroiled in internecine warfare has demonstrated an inability to be a successful state.
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