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The quest for a two-state solution (Naomi Chazan)

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 01:19 PM
Original message
The quest for a two-state solution (Naomi Chazan)
Edited on Fri Jun-17-11 01:27 PM by shira
I belong to a generation of Israelis that has been directly affected by the conflict and every one of my Palestinian friends has also been directly affected by the conflict and, since 1967, by the occupation. I also belong to a growing group of Israelis 70 per cent of the Israeli population who are in favour of a two-state solution.

I advocate a two-state solution for two reasons: firstly, to occupy another people is immoral, undemocratic and un-Jewish. It goes against the grain of what human beings should do to other human beings. Secondly, the occupation is a cancer for the occupier as well. Ruling over another people against their will is inevitably going to become a malignancy within our own society. I've probably been in every demonstration from the first one against the very first settlement that went up after the Six-Day War. I've devoted a good portion of my adult life not only to social causes within Israel but to trying to find a way to achieve a just peace, a negotiated settlement between Israelis and Palestinians. All this comes from one source a deep belief in the right of self-determination of the Jewish people in Israel. And I also believe it cannot be sustained unless that same right is accorded to Palestinians.

Most Israelis understand that the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel is in Israel's uppermost interests. They may not love it but they understand it. The problem is not a Palestinian state but how to achieve it. Some people, perhaps well-intentioned, propose BDS (Boycott, Divestment & Sanctions) tactics against Israel. But I am increasingly convinced that the global BDS movement obfuscates the objective of achieving a two-state solution. The aim of the BDS is to purportedly bring Israel to end its occupation of the territories conquered in 1967 and bring it to the negotiating table.

I will give you six arguments why it probably does precisely the opposite:


more...
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2760806.html

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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. How about one state
with equal justice for all. All countries based on religion should be the size of the Vatican.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's great - but how do you pull that off? For instance...
The clearest illustration of this is your idea that Arabs would have no problem serving in a non-Zionist Israeli army and going to war if necessary against neighboring Arab states. I once put that question to Azmi Bishara himself (the Israeli Arab ideologue of the state of all its citizens), asking him who would serve in the army, Shin Bet and other security services of such a state. He was speaking at a Tel Aviv University conference, and he replied that hed answered that question before and didnt want to go into it, and he immediately took the next question. Somehow I think that if hed had a good answer, he would have given it. Richard, by suggesting that Israeli Arabs would have no problem fighting for a non-Zionist Israel against its neighbors, or even just putting on an Israeli uniform and training for that, you are asking something no one should ask of them that they fight against their own nation, against people of their own religion, and on behalf of a state whose history and demography wouldnt seem to inspire in them such a degree of allegiance. It would be sort of like asking American Jews to fight for the U.S. in a war against Israel.

http://israelleft.com/2011/05/16/rebuttal-to-israel-a-state-of-all-its-citizens/

Also, what do you think would happen if a Palestinian majority voted Hamas into power?
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Or, would Jews fight for a none Jewish state?
Would they follow a democratically elected government, no matter the leaders religion?
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Who would the Jews refuse to fight against in a non-Jewish Israel?
Further, do you really think Hamas would lead a democratically elected government in a secular, liberal manner?

Seriously?
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I think the "Arab Spring" points in that direction.
The radicals on both sides are the problem. Only true democracy and equality can overcome the crazies like Hamas and the settlers.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. You're not being clear on how to practically make this Utopia work. nt
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It'd be tuff as
the new settlers would agree to nothing.
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wellst0nev0ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Like The Likud? (n/t)
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holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. You're forgetting WHY there has to be an Israel
Jews learned the hard way that they cannot ensure their survival by being a minority under the "protection" of a host government. It doesn't work. Even those who assimilate, even those who convert to the host religion, were put into boxcars to be slaughtered like cattle.

The only way to prevent another such episode is for there to be ONE place on Earth where Jews can go the next time this happens. Making Jews a minority in their only safe haven is a recipe for the same thing that's been happening for millennia to happen again.

The fact that a Jewish state of Israel even needs to exist is a shame on the rest of the world -- but, it DOES need to exist. Anyone who suggests otherwise isn't a fan of Jewish survival.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 04:40 AM
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