As the Palestinians Pursue Statehood, Israel Won’t Take ‘Yes’ for an Answer

[shaayecanaan]

This is a bit complicated, but it’s very important, so try and keep up. We’ll take questions afterward.

Israel faces a grave diplomatic crisis this fall. The Palestinians are planning to demand recognition from the United Nations General Assembly as a sovereign state within the 1949 armistice line or Green Line, on the territory governed by the Israeli military since 1967. If this happens, there will be an internationally recognized border separating the sovereign territory of Israel from the sovereign territory of a neighboring state to be known as Palestine. Israel on this side, Palestine over there.

This would be a bad thing, Israelis warn, because the Palestinians do not want a state limited to the 1949 armistice lines. What they really want is the entire geographic expanse known as Palestine or the Land of Israel, including not just the presumed Palestinian part but the Israeli part as well. They want Israel to be erased from the map. Gaining sovereignty over the disputed territory gives them nothing but a base for future attacks on Israel.

That’s why the Palestinians are asking the international community formally to designate the precise line where their state ends and Israel begins. Because they want to erase that line, you see, and they figure the best way to erase it is to have it sanctified beforehand by the nations of the world in solemn assembly. Or something.

Are you following so far? I know it’s complicated, but try and stay with us.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/137177/#ixzz1K79HrnQl

[houstonintc]

1. Well possibly true.

I think likely the Palestinian States first act would likely be a declaration of war on Israel and thus no real change to what is going on.

Jerusalem will also be a huge tangle to deal with as well, for both sides and the UN.

[shaayecanaan]

2. I'll take that wager...

Lets say $50 USD. If the first act of the Palestinians after the General Assembly meeting in September is to declare war on Israel, I will donate that sum to a charity of your choosing. If not, then you pay $50 to Medical Aid for Palestine.

[houstonintc]

3. Save the money, just send it to Palestine.

It is a fear of mine that even if this was done a war would soon follow.

Best send you 50 as start up capitol for the new State, Countries aren't run for cheap you know.

[oberliner]

4. Livni should have been given a chance to form a government

Her party did get the most votes after all.

If all that Abbas was waiting for was someone like Olmert to continue negotiating with, then presumably she would have fit the bill.

[shaayecanaan]

5. She did...

She had exactly the same opportunity that Netanyahu did. The president of Israel is bound, by law, to recognise as prime minister the person who has the confidence of the majority of the Knesset.

Netanyahu was able to form a majority. Livni was not. Were elections held tomorrow, the result would likely be the same.

[oberliner]

6. No, she didn't

Hawkish Likud party leader Benjamin Netanyahu will be tasked with forming a new Israeli government, the president's office announced on Friday.

"The president has made a decision regarding the formation of the government and the presidency will summon deputy Benjamin Netanyahu at 14:15 (12:15 GMT) to entrust him with this task," the office of President Shimon Peres said.

The announcement came after Peres met separately with Netanyahu and his Likud party rival Tzipi Livni, hoping to convince them to form a broad government alliance.

But Livni emerged from the talks saying: "I will not be a pawn in a government that would be against our ideals."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gkXEHlpoq3U9mPkNTuUI-YhT9wuQ

If the election were held tomorrow, the result would definitely not be the same.

Regardless, Livni won the election. If Israel had a system more akin to what we have in the US, she would have taken office and there'd be a Palestinian state today.

[shaayecanaan]

8. She didnt win the election...

because she didn't get a majority. She only obtained a plurality. Americans struggle with this concept because they are used to a system with only two parties. Minority governments are the norm elsewhere.

Typically, in such circumstances either the left-wing parties or the right-wing parties will bind together to form a governing coalition. In the case of the last elections in Israel, the combined right-wing parties held more seats than the other parties, so they were able to form government.

It is typical for the head of state to invite a member of parliament to form a governing coalition once it is clear that that person has a reasonable prospect of doing so. So for instance, in the United Kingdom, the Queen invited David Cameron to form a government once it became clear that he had secured the support of the Liberal Democrats. That gesture is purely symbolic, however, and the Queen is bound to accept as prime minister anyone having the confidence of the house of representatives whether they have received such an invitation or not.

That doesnt mean that either Livni or Gordon Brown were robbed of the chance to do so. If Livni had cobbled together a coalition herself, Peres would have been bound to offer the same invitation to her. That invitation was not extended because it was clear that Livni could not obtain a majority, and that Netanyahu could.

[oberliner]

10. Yes, she certainly did win the election

Kadima 758,032 22.47% 28 −1
Likud 729,054 21.61% 27 +15

Won the popular vote and the most seats.

[Douglas Carpenter]

7. very interesting article in Forward

The crazy thing is, Israel and the Palestinians reached agreement on many of these points in negotiations between Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas in 2008. Demilitarization, check. Keep Ben Gurion Airport clear, check. Close supervision of the Jordan River crossings, check. In return, the Palestinians were to get what they have insisted is their bottom-line minimum: a state based on the 1967 lines, with agreed land swaps. There were compromises in the works on Jerusalem and refugees, too. The deal wasn’t completed, but they were getting there.

So what happened? The talks were suspended when Olmert was indicted on corruption charges and Israel was forced into early elections. No, Abbas didn’t “walk away,” as myth has it. He stood back and waited until Israel elected a new leader with the legitimate authority to negotiate.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/137177/#ixzz1K848ZGYl

.

[Violet_Crumble]

9. Really good article. I liked the last sentence especially n/t