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Jewish Group Disturbed By Results Of Survey On Anti-Semitic Attitudes In Europe

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Purveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 05:53 PM
Original message
Jewish Group Disturbed By Results Of Survey On Anti-Semitic Attitudes In Europe
PARIS (EJP)--- Results of a poll conducted by a German think-tank on European attitudes towards Jews and Israel are "deeply disturbing," said the European Jewish Congress (EJC).

The Friedrich Ebert Foundation, a think-tank associated with Germanys Social Democratic Party, found extremely worrying attitudes amongst a host of Europeans.

The study "Intolerance, Prejudice, Discrimination: A European Report" questioned roughly 1,000 people in Great Britain, Holland, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Poland and France.

When asked to respond to the statement that "Israel is conducting a war of extermination against the Palestinians," 63% of the studys participants in Poland agreed with the statement, while in Germany 47.7 percent expressed agreement.

MORE...

http://www.ejpress.org/article/49705
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. If the shoe fits...
You have no right to be disturbed.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Exactly.
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henank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Which part of the shoe fits?
The part where polls show that people believe that "Israel is conducting a war of extermination against the Palestinians"?

How does one then explain the fourfold increase in the Palestinian population since 1948?

Not very efficient or deadly exterminators, those Jews, oops, sorry, those Israelis.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Israel has no corner on hypocrisy.
I'm sick of the killing. Holding one group above another is pure bigotry, and I'm seeing plenty of it on both sides, so you can keep your holier-than-thou fertilizer to yourself.
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henank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
33. The bigotry is one-way only; coming from your direction
Edited on Wed Mar-23-11 07:32 AM by henank
"Holding one group above another is pure bigotry", so you say, yet you hold the Jews, oops, sorry, the Israelis, way lower than any other group except perhaps sea slugs, (and I'm not even sure about that).

You imply in your comment that you approve of the point of view that it is Israel's actions that make the Jews deserve to be discriminated against. I point out that "Israel's... war of extermination against the Palestinians" is non-existent because the Palestinian population has increased fourfold (or more, who's counting?) - not what anyone would close extermination in any sense of the word.

And you accuse me of "holier-than-thou fertilizing". LOL! Takes one to know what he/she is talking about.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Wow
This is shocking.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. How is it any more shocking...
than the old refrain that the Arabs "only want to push the Jews into the sea" (which I might add used to make an almost daily appearance in this forum)?

I am rather tired of this selective faux-outrage that finds shock in the histrionic claims of one side but not the other.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Shocking to see a poster here type "if the shoe fits" in response to a survey about anti-semitism
Edited on Mon Mar-21-11 07:31 PM by oberliner
And an immediate follow up response of agreement (i.e. "exactly") from another poster. I guess I shouldn't be shocked anymore based on what I've seen here in the past, but these things still gives me pause.

Generalizations like the one you cited about Arabs "pushing Jews into the sea" are not as shocking, since, unfortunately, generic anti-Arab prejudice is something one encounters on a daily basis here in the United States.

If you turn on the radio, you will hear comments like the one you cited and much much worse from some of the most popular "political" talk show hosts in a way that you would never hear blatant anti-Jewish comments.

In fact, people say things about Arabs in public forums that they would never say about virtually any other minority group in the United States. And they generally are not even chastised for it.

Anti-Jewish remarks, at least in the United States, are not the sort of thing one is likely to encounter on the radio, television, or on other non-internet outlets. Anti-Arab remarks, however, are omnipresent across all genres, much to my disgust.

Of course, it's unfortunate that either sort of comment would make an appearance on a site like this, but here we are.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thank you, that's a very gracious response
to what was a quite curmudgeonly comment from myself.

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. So, it's now anti-Jewish to find genocide vile?
Please. I'm finding this meme horrifically hypocritical. I see you support Israeli terrorism, and the mass killing of innocent people. Wow.

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. No, but it's anti-Jewish to accuse Jews or even Israelis of genocide.
Unless one is accusing *all* countries that have waged/ are waging war of genocide. Which IMO devalues the term 'genocide'; but is at least consistent. In recent years, Britain and America have caused the deaths of a lot more people, and specifically of Arabs and Muslims, than Israel has. Should our countries be accused of genocide?

I oppose MANY of Israel's policies (notably the Occupation and OCL), but I still wouldn't use the word 'genocide', especially given the UK's recent war record.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. This is a war against a people...
That's the difference. It's the going after a people with the intent of eradicating all of them that is offensive. No one in America or Great Britain is saying an entire people should be eradicated.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Nor are they in Israel
I don't condone Israel's treatment of the Palestinians but they aren't seeking to *eradicate* them.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. They want them gone by any means...
Eradication.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. So why are they doing such a lousy job of it, with the % of Palestinians increasing? n/t
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. The world is watching, duh... eom
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. You could say that about many places!
Leaders truly dedicated to genocide rarely worry too much about the world watching.
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houstonintc Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. So it's the most ineffective...
... genocide since the number of Palestinians is increasing... that seems to be the opposite of a genocide.
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houstonintc Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. Aren't the Palestinians in a war against a People?
Jews would not be shown any sort of "kindness" from Arab conquerers either.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. No, it's anti-Jewish to believe that the views described in the OP are legitimate
That the "shoe fits" with respect to those statements is what is shocking and offensive.

And your bizarre conclusions about anyone supporting "the mass killing of innocent people" are even more disturbing.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. thank you Oberliner - I must admit that I am shocked - in a positive way - that you understand this
many people do not.

In fact, people say things about Arabs in public forums that they would never say about virtually any other minority group in the United States. And they generally are not even chastised for it.

Anti-Jewish remarks, at least in the United States, are not the sort of thing one is likely to encounter on the radio, television, or on other non-internet outlets. Anti-Arab remarks, however, are omnipresent across all genres, much to my disgust.


Perhaps my assumptions about your thinking have been way too harsh. Thank you.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. s/d
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 02:28 PM by oberliner
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. I disapprove of such claims on all sides.
Sadly, I wouldn't say I am 'shocked' by them any more; no doubt I once was, but they are sadly common - against Jews, against Muslims, against Arabs, against immigrants, etc.
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Mr Generic Other Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. anti-Israeli is not the same as anti-semitic.
these questions do not reveal how any respondent feels about jewish people in general but asks how they feel about certain Israeli policies.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It's antisemitic to equate Israel's actions to Nazi Germany. n/t
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Where is that in this thread? eom
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Poll results show most attribute Nazi-like actions to Jews. That's antisemitic. n/t
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 02:55 PM by shira
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. That is the truth
And I'm a little more than tired of seeing people called anti-semitic because they don't like bigotry and killing... Israel has blood on their hands. I'm not saying the Palestinians are any better, I'm just pointing to hypocrisy.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. If you look at the survey...
most of the questions are *not* about Israel, but about whether Jews have too much power, talk too much about the Holocaust, have/haven't enriched the culture of the respondents' country, etc.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
13. Be warned: McAfee reports security issues with the site this post links to.
I wanted to look at the full article, but haven't, for that reason.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
29. Probably a cookie issue
I did not see anything. See also.

http://siteadvisor.us/sites/ejpress.com/msgpage
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
15. Interesting and worrying article
Here's a link to the main survey itself; the responses to specific questions are at the end:

http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/do/07908-20110311.pdf

It deals with several different sorts of prejudice: antisemitism, racism, Islamophobia, homophobia, sexism, anti-immigrant prejudice. They tend to go together, though not always. And there is too much of all of them everywhere, though there are considerable differences between countries.

The survey indicates that Britain is better than most Europaean countries with regard to antisemitism (where other surveys suggest that it's similar to or better than America) and most other forms of prejudice; the exception being anti-immigrant prejudice where we seem to lead all the rest! This does not surprise me; Britain is relatively live-and-let-live and has fewer social prejudices than many countries, but hostility to immigrants has always been our Achilles heel.

The Netherlands is also one of the less prejudiced countries in Europe, despite a few high-profile Islamophobic and antisemitic politicians.

By contrast, Poland and Hungary seem to be relatively FULL of antisemitism, as well as other sorts of prejudice. Quite a few people whom I know are Jews whose ancestors left one or other of these countries for good reason (Poland in the case of my own ancestors); and it's sad to see that they haven't improved as much in these respects as one would like to see.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. the actual questions on antisemitism can be found on page 56
and the one question which at least half of the respondents in all countries replied to positively was this one "Jews enrich our culture." it seems that one wasn't mentioned in the article






'
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. I don't know how one would explain Poland...
Poland had relatively little anti-semitism when its population was the most Jewish of any country in the world except for Morocco (1 in 7 Poles was Jewish at the end of the nineteenth century).

It now has relatively high levels of anti-Semitism even though there are next to no Jews there.

On the other hand, Polish Jews don't seem to be particularly keen on Polish Catholics either, as far as I can tell. Many seem to believe in false conspiracy theories that the Polish Underground conspired with the Nazis to track down Jews. Even the Hollywood film "Uprising" about the Warsaw ghetto dabbled in these theories. When Shimon Peres visited Poland he made a statement to the effect that Poland was not responsible for the holocaust. Which is well and good but I thought that would have gone without saying.

Israel has recently become quite popular amongst some of the countries in the former Soviet orbit, such as the Czech republic and Bulgaria, mainly because of the unpopularity of Turks and Turkey in those countries. There are only very few Turks in Poland; perhaps that is the difference.



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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Antisemitism in Poland seems to have increased rather dramatically in the early 20th century..
Edited on Wed Mar-23-11 03:41 AM by LeftishBrit
especially after WW1. Of course, 'Poland' itself had shifting boundaries through history and was partitioned many times, so it's sometimes hard to differentiate events in Poland from neighbouring countries. At any rate, both Poland and Lithuania were very bad countries for Jews, including many of my relatives, during that time - long before the Nazi occupation.

At least judging from a Polish fellow-student of mine in the 80s, who though friendly with individual Jews was prepared to be rather open about his general prejudices, some postwar and current Polish antisemitism seems to involve a stereotype of Jews supporting and collaborating with Soviet domination -unlikely as the Soviets themselves were rarely exactly very friendly toward Jews. (This was the same Polish student whom I mentioned before, who initially thought that EVERYTHING opposed by Soviet propaganda must be a good thing, including Thatcher, Reagan and even McCarthyism.)
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houstonintc Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
34. Isn't Europe always like that?
I mean to some extent this is part of a historical trend, they have always been like that.
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