Telling the Truth, Facing the Whip

[drdon326]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/28/opinion/28MANS.html

Yet the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Islamic Affairs have now established a committee to hunt down teachers who are suspected of being liberal-minded. This committee, which has the right to expel and punish any teacher who does not espouse hard-core Wahhabism, last week interrogated a teacher, found him "guilty" of an interest in philosophy and put on probation.

During the holy fasting month of Ramadan, imams around the country stepped up their hate speech against liberals, advocates of women's rights, secularists, Christians and Jews — and many encouraged their congregations to do the same. I heard no sermons criticizing the people responsible for the attacks in Riyadh, in which innocent civilians and children were killed. The reason, I believe, is that these religious leaders sympathize with the criminals rather than the victims.

I cannot but wonder at our officials and pundits who continue to claim that Saudi society loves other nations and wishes them peace, when state-sponsored preachers in some of our largest mosques continue to curse and call for the destruction of all non-Muslims. As the recent attacks show, now more than ever we are in need of support and help from other countries to help us stand up against our extremist religious culture, which discriminates against its own religious minorities, including Shiites and Sufis.

..................................................................
"During the holy fasting month of Ramadan, imams around the country stepped up their hate speech against liberals, advocates of women's rights, secularists, Christians and Jews .."

these are our "friends" ??

this sounds like a very brave man.

[Racenut20]

1. All I know about Ramadan is

The two Muslim players on the Gators went 4 for 14 during the fast, while the rest of the team shot 77%. But that will change now when they zonk AZ tonight.

[hossdiddy]

2. I'm sure

all those brave human rights activists are rushing to SA to protest this.

Oh, wait. They can't blame thsi on Israel, and they will probably be thrown in jail and whipped? Never mind.

[drdon326]

3. My second favorite part...

"I cannot but wonder at our officials and pundits who continue to claim that Saudi society loves other nations and wishes them peace, when state-sponsored preachers in some of our largest mosques continue to curse and call for the destruction of all non-Muslims."

This sounds like a very insightful (not too mention, brave) man.

[rini]

4. I am sad to be the one to tell you, but

everything can be blamed on Israel. From world domination to an over cooked turkey. The flood gates should begin to open shortly.

[vierundzwanzig]

24. I knew about the world domination thing

but overcooked turkey?

[pistoff democrat]

5. Standing alone,

that is a very disturbing article.

Putting it together with the fact there is an active anti-NY Times boycott in effect now due to the paper's anti-Israel bias, this article leaves me wondering just how much worse this might really be!

[Jim Sagle]

6. Where are the usual DU suspects?

:shrug:

[drdon326]

7. LOL

.

[Darranar]

8. This is intolerant and deserves to be condemned...

yet it is not I/P.

[bluesoul]

9. Everything

as long as Muslims/Arabs are bashed...

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluesoul]

16. LOL

;)

[JohnLocke]

36. Very substantive post…

[Andromeda]

42. Really?

:nopity:

[drdon326]

10. Sure it is....

this is yet ANOTHER continuation of STATE SPONSORED
MEDIA ANTI-SEMITISM that seeks to encourage attacks
against jews....




now, its state sponsored media propaganda against

liberals
womens rights
christians
jews
and non-muslims.

[Darranar]

12. So how is it I/P?

Because it has to do with hatred instigated by Muslims?

So would it be okay for me to post anything whatsoever dealing with racism against Muslims and post it here?

[drdon326]

15. Hate

instigated by state sponsorship. The i/p is more than just
those 2 participants....as seen above.

if you can find state sponsored hatred of muslims by
israel feel free to post it.

[bluesoul]

17. Those bombs, rockets

house demolishment, agriculture demolishmen, wall building and cutting out people is quite enough...

[JohnLocke]

37. Yet More Unsupported Drivel

State-sponsored hatred of Muslims is not equitable to "house demolishment, agriculture demolishmen*, wall building and cutting out people**." Please prove to me (through links to evidence) that this actions taken by Israel are part of a state-sponsored policy to harm members of the Islamic faith simply because they are members of the Islamic faith.

* -- link to news story, please.
** -- "cutting out people" -- what does that mean?

[GabysPoppy]

38. You are optomistic Sir

[Scurrilous]

39. You are correct!

Israel's state sponsored campaign of land grabbing, house demolition, collective punishment, and violence against civilians is directed at Palestinians regardless of faith. The Israelis aren't just targeting Islamics.

[Darranar]

40. He has a point...

in that the policies of Israel treat Palestinians as less then human.

Whether or not you classify that as racist is up to you.

[pistoff democrat]

13. Thank you...

a much wiser response than mine, I am ashamed to say.

Thank you.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tinnypriv]

20. No

But don't worry yourself about it.

[pistoff democrat]

21. Worry myself about what?

:hi:

[tinnypriv]

22. If you can't keep track of your own questions

I hardly see the need to answer your second one. :shrug:

[pistoff democrat]

23. It was a joke!

:eyes:

:kick:

[Andromeda]

43. A lot of posters on this board

have a problem with humor, or their lack thereof. :)

[meti57b]

18. Saudi Arabia: it's state-sponsered terrorism against their own people,

especially against women. With all the business we do with SA for oil, we should be attempting to influence them to treat their own people in a humane manner. And yes, where are the international peace activists

[pistoff democrat]

19. This is just a guess...

but aren't they all human shields in Iraq?

[vierundzwanzig]

25. Ooops

Didn't read this was from Saudi-Arabia. I am not sure what the various corrupt regimes with a predominantly muslim population that is manipulated by a bunch of hatemongerers has to do with bulldozing homes?

See, this is the problem with these posts here sometimes: This is is about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. It is not about Iranian Ayatollahs cashing in or some imams who have had a little too much sun - Hey, we have Bush! Everybody has their corrupt leadership! After all it was god that told Bush to go to Iraq.

The 'Jewish State' makes its claims based on Judaism. And they have more military gear than all the other Arab states that haven't been bought off by the U.S. combined.

It is time to cut religion out of the equation.

That goes especially for this forum.

[Classical_Liberal]

26. This and several other articles you have posted today

has nothing to do with I/P, and people should start hitting alert.

[drdon326]

27. Really ??

State sponsored anti-semitism in Saudi Arabia has nothing
to do with the i/p conflict ??

Even the author is offended....as I am.

[Classical_Liberal]

28. I posted an article about a "Jew for Jesus"

that was an advisor to both Bush and Sharon, and had written a dispensationalist novel, that depicted the nuking of Bagdad as a holy act, and it was moved to F/A because it wasn't directly related. If that gets moved so should this!

Explain to me how this article is more pertinant to I/P then mine?

[dai]

29. Here's how...

...it relates to I/P:

This is yet another example of the "Muslims are evil/backwards/violent/untrustworthy" meme. Propagating this idea diminishes sympathy for Palestinians, which is helpful in justifying Israeli policy in the occupied territories.

It is absolutely true that the Saudi leadership and progressive values are anathema, but the fact that this article was posted on the I/P thread makes it a very transparent jab at Muslims.

[Classical_Liberal]

30. That is why you should hit alert!

This is about SA not Israel or the Palestinians.

[drdon326]

31. Not even close....

one of many points of the author is state sponsored
antisemitism...the kind thats taught in madrassas.

If you dont think this has any effect, ever wonder why
19 of the 21 highjackers came from SA??

[Classical_Liberal]

32. The hijackers hit America not Israel

. Al Qaeda isn't a Palestinian organization.

[drdon326]

34. Tell me something i dont know...

you missed the point....where did they learn that kind
of hatred for america??

I'll tell you...the same place where state sponsored
anti-semitism is taught in madrassas and preached by
religious leaders that spew their hatred on non-believers.

"imams around the country stepped up their hate speech against liberals, advocates of women's rights, secularists, Christians and Jews — and many encouraged their congregations to do the same".

[Classical_Liberal]

41. That means that this is not an I/P issue

.

[dai]

35. Just like Bush,

bringing up 9-11 to make an unrelated point. The Saudi hijackers (15 of 19, not 19 of 21 - I have no idea what DrDon is going on about) trying to overthrow their government are inspired by the hate speech of...their government? Even if it were related to I/P, it is a most specious argument.

But I think I'm not the only one that sees this article as an anti-Muslim statement and not anti-Saudi because it was posted here on I/P.

Which is fine, right-wingers do a lot worse and there is technically a mention of anti-Semitism in the article. But I don't believe for a second that this thread is meant as anything more than an anti-Muslim screed.

[bluesoul]

44. You're not the only one

seeing the anti-Muslim sentiments by posting articles nothing to do with I/P. Just as long as Muslims are bashed..

[Classical_Liberal]

45. Please hit alert

!

[bluesoul]

46. I did

...

[JohnLocke]

47. Al-Qaeda shares many beliefs with Fatah

Al-Qaeda shares many beliefs with Fatah. The only difference is the latter does not have the guts to follow through on their idle threats.

[dai]

49. "Bring 'em on?"

Is it just me, or do a lot of liberals start sounding very conservative on the I/P forum?

Anyway, if the issue is state sponsored hate speech in SA as a means of promoting terrorism, bringing up Al Qaeda doesn't help your argument - since one of Al Qaeda's stated goals (perhaps their primary goal) is the overthrow of the Saudi government.

[Jack Rabbit]

33. This issue here is that this has to do with anti-Semitism in general

It touches all Jews, not just those living in Israel. It doesn't touch on Palestinians at all.

You may be right to put this piece down here, Doc. I know when I moderated this forum, almost anything having to do with Jews wound up down here. However, many didn't need to be and probably would not have been so inflammatory if they had been posted in another forum.

If you dont think this has any effect, ever wonder why 19 of the 21 highjackers came from SA??

Strictly speaking, that didn't have anything to do with Israel, either. That had to do with Osama's hatred of Americans. The September 11 attacks are discussed in other forums all the time.

[newyorican]

48. Rule #17: Change the subject

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can "argue" with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/9052/rules.html

[Classical_Liberal]

50. I hope you hit alert

!

[newyorican]

51. I don't like to...

hit the alert.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

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