Jews who sell to Arabs are enemies

[subsuelo]

A Jew who sells land to an Arab in Israel should not be allowed to lead prayers in synagogue, should not be given the right to make a blessing during the Torah reading, should not be counted among the quorum needed for public prayers and is considered an abettor to the enemies of Israel, according to a halachic decision issued on Monday night by a group of rabbis calling themselves "The New Sanhedrin."

In their decision, the Sanhedrin explained the historical background. "In recent years a phenomenon has arisen in which Arabs are buying houses and land in Jewish neighborhoods and in this way are gradually buying up these neighborhoods."

Sources connected with the Sanhedrin said that the halachic decision was a response to sales of land and apartments in French Hill, Pisgat Ze'ev and other Jerusalem neighborhoods to Arabs.

...
"The influx of Arabs to Jewish neighborhoods lowers the value of homes and introduces negative cultural influences. A Jew who facilitates this is transgressing the commandment to love one's neighbor like oneself, even if he only rents to them."

Eliyahu said that in his own city of Safed, a Jew who sold to an Arab was boycotted by the community. "He owned a grocery store and people boycotted it."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251804468650&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull">Jerusalem Post - full article

[invictus]

1. What a racist country!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. Are you aware if what happens when a muslim sells real property to a jew?

[subsuelo]

3. Just couldn't resist justifying it, could you?

"They do bad things, we can too" - or whatever variation on that theme you're going for.

Pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

[oberliner]

8. Like the responses to the post about Hamas and Holocaust Denial

People just couldn't resist bringing up Israeli schools and the teaching of the Naqba.

Some people just can't help resorting to the "they do bad things too" argument tactic.

In this case, it was the very first response:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x285437

[Violet_Crumble]

13. It's nothing like that at all....

I'm one of the people yr referring to, and it had zero to do with 'look over there' and everything to do with a belief that there has to be an acknowledgement of the suffering of each people by the other, and this isn't something restricted so that only the Palestinians are expected to do it....

In the case of this thread, the poster who responded with the *But They Do It Too!* moment in post #2 isn't doing that for any other reason than to try to justify the attitude of those in the OP. Having read that posters rather stinky attitudes about Islam and Muslims, I'm not surprised at all. Personally I think him and the poster they replied to in post #1 are every bit as bad as each other....

[subsuelo]

17. Honestly... this is getting childish

First of all, the response you refer to wasn't mine, so whatever point you think you're making towards me is rather weak.

Second, if you're at all interested in my actual view, I believe I've been very consistent in calling for excuse-making to end altogether, rather than going "oh but look, see the similar behavior of someone else".

The nutty thing is, your response is yet another form of excuse making. Only this time, it's excuses for the act of excuse making itself, by saying "well look over here, someone else is doing it".

Does it ever end?

:shrug:

I don't know how the mods here can stand it

[oberliner]

29. There is no excuse being made for anything

I just thought there was a similarity in terms of the way posters respond to things that put either Palestinians or Israelis in a negative light by pointing out something negative with respect to the other group.

Clearly, some do not agree that this happens, but I would suggest that it does. I think that the response to the Holocaust denial situation is an example. I did not mean to suggest that you yourself made such a post, just that I've observed others do so.

For some reason, partisans (for lack of a better word) on either side of this I/P conflict often have their blinders on with respect to situations that do not necessarily fit their particular perspective.

I would not expect you or the other person who responded to my post to agree with that observation, but I think it is a valid one.

I used to believe that we were generally all on the same side. That everyone who poster here on the I/P forum in DU shared the same basic goals and hopes for the future.

As time goes by, however, I am starting to feel this less and less and I truly do believe that there is a chasm here that no attempted outreach will be able to bridge.

It is unfortunate that there is so much nastiness on a forum that could conceivably serve as a shared resource and home for finding common ground and common cause.

It seems that some folks are much more interested in something entirely different here and I find that to be very sad.

[Violet_Crumble]

30. Do you consider yrself a partisan (for lack of a better word)?

I'm just curious to know, as you seem to be trying to make out that yr not...

[oberliner]

31. In the real world I'm considered a pro-Palestinian partisan

Because I support an end to the occupation, withdrawal from the settlements and a two-state solution based on the Geneva Accords. I opposed the invasion of Gaza and I support Abbas and Fayyad and the efforts that they have undertaken on behalf of the Palestinian people.

On this board, however, I seem to be considered a pro-Israel partisan because I detest Hamas and believe that they share responsibility for the situation in Gaza. And, apparently, because I support a two-state solution and don't think that Fatah are Israeli/American stooges.

I'm also against Holocaust denial which apparently is a controversial "pro-Israel" position.

[Violet_Crumble]

32. I asked if you consider yrself a partisan, not how others view you....

On this board, however, I seem to be considered a pro-Israel partisan because I detest Hamas and believe that they share responsibility for the situation in Gaza. And, apparently, because I support a two-state solution and don't think that Fatah are Israeli/American stooges.

No, I don't think that can be right because I'm not considered a pro-Israel partisan and I share all those same views as you do....

[oberliner]

33. I think I'm pretty down the middle

At least I try to make an effort to be fair.

[LeftishBrit]

4. Do you mean a Muslim or a Palestinian?

It is against the law, and in theory a capital offence, for a Palestinian to sell property to an Israeli (this would apply to Christian as well as to Muslim Palestinians). But it is certainly not forbidden for Muslims in general to sell property to Jews.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. Actually there are multiple fatwas that say it is

[Violet_Crumble]

14. I'm calling bullshit on that...

There are no laws of that type in Indonesia, which is the most populous Muslim country in the world. There are also no cases of people being charged with a crime in Indonesia for selling property to Jews. Here in Australia, I'm pretty damn sure that when I recently sold my home, there wasn't a question in the pre-sale papers asking my religion and letting me know that if I'm Muslim, I'm going to be charged with some sort of crime if I sell my home to someone who's Jewish.....

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. Be as shrill as you want to be...

Any muslim cleric can declare a fatwa and several in the middle east have over this issue. Some against selling land to jews jews, other against selling to non-muslims.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1238562884554
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Land_Laws
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=3186

[Violet_Crumble]

20. Calling bullshit on what you said isn't being 'shrill'. It's calling bullshit...

Yr original comment was: 'Are you aware if what happens when a muslim sells real property to a jew?'

Another poster quite correctly pointed out to you that in the case of the West Bank the law applied to Palestinians selling land, not just Muslims, and that it's not a crime generally for Muslims to sell land to Jews. You disputed that, which is where I called bullshit on what yr claiming. While it's a crime for Palestinians in the West Bank to sell land to Jews, it's not anywhere else, and seeing two of yr links are about the PA law, and one is a link to some stinky forum frequented by RW Muslim-haters, and that in countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia etc there is no crime in selling property to anyone who's Jewish, either yr original *Look Over There* moment was very badly worded, a product of some sort of dislike of Muslims in general, or actually believing that it's a crime for Muslims around the world to sell land to Jews...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. The comments and thread are about the middle east, specifically Israel and Palestine

My comments in context are correct

[Violet_Crumble]

23. Actually, the OP's about Jews being forbidden to sell land to Arabs...

Something that I notice you've steadfastly avoided talking about, opting instead to go into *But They Do It Too!* mode. I'm not sure how anyone would think that pointing to someone else doing it too makes it justified when someone else does it (and with you being a pedant, I'm a bit surprised you haven't bothered yrself that they're not the same thing at all)...

No, yr comment wasn't correct. It is not a crime for Muslims to sell land to Jews or non-Jews, and that's what yr claim was...

[invictus]

6. What do Muslims have to do with Israel being a racist apartheid-practicing country that receives bil

What do Muslims have to do with Israel being a racist apartheid-practicing country that receives billions in US taxdollars and loan guarantees every year and that tries to drag Americans into wars with countries that do not threaten us?

[Vegasaurus]

11. The Palestinians are the most aid dependent people on earth

They have been that way for 60+ year.

Lets see the Palestinians try to make it without international aid.

[invictus]

12. What does this have to do with Israeli racism? can't defend Israel's crimes, so you change the topic

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. What race are Arabs and what race are Jews?

When you figure that out you will realize that your claims of racism are invalid hyperbole.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. That's kind of a silly question. Of course Jews can be racist...

There's no group of people who are immune from that rather nasty trait, and they don't need to be a race themselves to be racist against a race of people. Apart from that, I only recently corrected a pro-Israeli poster who incorrectly claimed that there's Arab racism towards Jews. Sorry, I waited for you to arrive and tell them they were talking a bunch of invalid hyperbole, but I got sick of waiting and pointed out to them that the word they're looking for is *bigotry*, not *racism*...

[Vegasaurus]

27. Israel has not lived on international goodwill for 60+ years

You are complaining about the aid that Israel gets.

I am pointing out that Israel has created a thriving society, with more intellectual advancements that help the whole world, than countries ten times its size.

They are not aid-dependent, so quit using the money that the US buys in weapons (which is part of their "aid") as a point of argument.

[Violet_Crumble]

28. Do you just make this stuff up?

I am pointing out that Israel has created a thriving society, with more intellectual advancements that help the whole world, than countries ten times its size.

Not that it's got anything to do with, well, anything, but my bet is that you've just made up that bit about Israel having more intellectual advancements that help the world than countries ten times its size. And, like, who but you cares about that sort of shit? It's not an excuse for Israel to violate human rights the way it does...

[Violet_Crumble]

16. Have you got anything to back up that claim?

Or is everyone just supposed to believe everything you say because you've said it? Could you provide some proof to back up yr claim?

Then my next question is, why would anyone in their right mind want international aid to the Palestinians to be stopped? Do they understand the implications of what they're calling for?

[Taitertots]

9. It is the death penalty isn't it

So Palestine is an apartheid nation? If Israel is, then you must accept that Palestine is more so.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. Indeed it its, for both Palestinians and muslims.

I actually think the boycotting is perfectly reasonable form of protest. I may not agree with the reason, but its a classic and effective way to let companies and individuals know that you disprove of their actions.

[LeftishBrit]

5. Disgusting - and ironic

"The influx of Arabs to Jewish neighborhoods lowers the value of homes and introduces negative cultural influences. A Jew who facilitates this is transgressing the commandment to love one's neighbor like oneself, even if he only rents to them."

Evidently he doesn't regard Arabs as in the category of 'one's neighbour'.

[proteus_lives]

22. And Palestinians aren't allowed to sell to Jews.

It's not surprising, they hate each other. But isn't official policy of the PA not to sell to Jews? Didn't someone get in trouble for earlier this year?

[Violet_Crumble]

24. Another very predicatable *Look Over There* attempt n/t

[proteus_lives]

25. And equally predictable double-standards from you.

[Violet_Crumble]

26. Wow, that's a double *Look Over There!* backflip! Impressive!

Not sure what yr going on about, but I'm unimpressed with any bigoted fuckers calling not to sell property to Arabs or Jews, and I'm not shy in saying so. I was just noticing that in any thread that's got anything critical of Israel or Israelis, yr straight in there with a *But They Do It Too!* post, but whenever there's something that's critical of Palestinians or the PA, there's none of that same thing. It's an interesting observation, and probably doesn't make you the best person to be talking about double-standards, eh?