Three soldiers killed in Netzarim infiltration

[drdon326]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1066979955573

Three IDF soldiers were killed and two wounded, one seriously after a terrorist infiltrated an army base in the northern Gaza Strip community of Netzarim before dawn Friday morning.

Two of the soldiers killed were women, and the seriously wounded soldier is also a woman. The male soldier was moderately wounded.

The wounded were airlifted to Barzilai Medical
Center in Ashkelon for treatment.

The identities of the three soldiers killed were released Friday afternoon:

Sgt. Sarit Schneor, 19, of Shoham.

Staff-Sgt. Alon Avrahami, 20, from Or Yehuda.

Sgt. Adi Osman, 19, Kfar Saba. She will be buried at 1:30 PM in Kfar Saba's military cemetery.

The terrorist, under the cover of darkness and dense fog entered the IDF base in the community and opened fire and threw grenades at the soldiers' barracks. At the same time Palestinians located outside Netzarim opened fire at the community from a number of directions to create a diversion.

...............................................................

murdering terrorists .... im sure theyre proud.

[JeebusH]

1. is Sharon just as proud???

he's as much to blame as the terrorists

[drdon326]

2. uhhhh......yeah

I suspect you also believe the US " is as much to
blame as " al-queda , right ??

[bluesoul]

3. Let's see

Well first of all they're on the OT. Second it's Israel enlisting such young soldiers (even women) and putting them into risk. And third, didn't you say that the resistance against the combatants is legitimate and asking why Palestinians target civilians instead of soldiers. So now attacking soldiers in OT is a crime as well. So Israel can strike both Palestinian militants and civilians while Palestinians should refrain from attacking anyone, even on their land. Ok..


And yes I even feel sorry for those young women soldiers and their families, but it is also Israel the one to reconsider their policies and drafting both men and women and sending them to the OT.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluesoul]

10. oh

It isn't even funny Resistance, it's sad really....

[Resistance]

11. I know it is

The constant mischaracterizations and willfull ignorance just wears me down at times, to the point where there doesn't seem much else to do but try to make jokes. You don't expect to actually knock sense into these people do you?

[bluesoul]

12. One more thing

Actually to be sincere, I don't like some of the remarks coming from the "pro-Palestinian" side as well here. I think some people have gone over the top in their anti-Israeli stance, to the point of generalizing, and I find that troubling just as much I find the generalizing views on Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims troubling.

[The Magistrate]

24. Thank You For Those Comments, Mr. Soul

They are much appreciated, and most helpful to our debate here.

Well said, Sir!

[bluesoul]

28. Appreciated

Thank you! I always try to be as fair and balanced as possible. ;-)

[bluesoul]

9. Rini

What side? I am neither Israeli (Jewish) nor Palestinian (Muslim). I don't support suicide bombers (terrorists) nor do I support state terrorism. I certainly would never encourage or teach anyone to do that. It seems to me that any criticism is beyond you and you see any opposing views as supporting terrorism. For god's sake, even peace activists are now considered as terrorist supporters by some of you (Drdon putting that wonderful Fox&corkum link) as they are "misguided" and in the end they just support terrorists, like Rachel Corrie did undoubtly...:shrug:

[Gimel]

42. All Israelis are at risk

The three soldiers killed during an enemy attack. Murder is a crime. Do you think that Palestinians whould continue in their role as combatants agasinst Israel? I thought progressives were opposed to armed conflict. Negotiation is the only way to reach a just settlement.

[Darranar]

49. If so...

then Israel should stop fighting. No more raids, no more assasinations.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Sesquipedalian]

14. Long live the IDF

Far be it from me to wish death on professional soldiers. Wouldn't want to do anything so bold as suggest that men sent there and paid to die to secure the Israeli occupation met their fate.

[Aidoneus]

15. hypocrites

where's the deletions for the IDF's cheer squad when they spout off in celebration of death? or better, none for either and let people talk.

[Lithos]

29. To wit

In addition to being flip, the post I deleted advocated more killing.

In addition, while this attack is certainly legitimate as it was wholly directed towards military personnel, a certain amount of respect is still deserved for those personnel on both sides who died. These were men doing their job, grim as it may be to some.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground

[bluesoul]

30. Well

By such rules, any posts cheering the deaths of Palestinian MILITANTS should also be deleted, am I right?

[Resistance]

31. I hope you are not expecting

The same respect afforded to Arabs as are afforded to Israelis around here.

[bluesoul]

33. Actually

I certainly do!

[number6]

38. It would be a surprise..

..

[Lithos]

44. Yes

Provided the deaths were for a legitimate operation.


L-

[Sesquipedalian]

34. is that a rule?

I do believe in more killing, I don't believe there is any way in hell Israel is going to leave these people alone unless it's sick of watching it's soldiers die.

I won't say that again if it is, but if advocating more killing is against the rules, the Israeli point of view couldn't even be presented.

[bluesoul]

35. Well

Sesquipedalian as much as I agree with you I will never understand the lust for more killings. I simply cannot relate to that..:shrug:

[Resistance]

37. Personally

I don't advocate more killings of anyone either - but clearly, Sesquipedalian has a strong point here.

[Resistance]

36. It's obvious to me

advocating killing any Israelis - whether they are soldier, settler, civilian, or leader - is against the rules. However, advocating killing Palestinians, well that's just an understandable part of Israel's "self-defense" strategy.

[Lithos]

48. I'm sorry you feel that way

But you would be wrong to think that is how things work.

It is one thing to discuss whether some operation is legitimate or not, but there is a strong difference between understanding there is fallout to any operation (often that determines if some operation is legitimate or not) and advocating more blood like it was a gladitorial game of old.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground

[Aidoneus]

13. soldiers in an army base within a colony in the OPT are targetted

yet it's still a "terrorist".. :eyes:

seems strangely coordinated and well executed.

[The Magistrate]

16. This Is, My Friend, A Legitimate Act Of War

That ought to be acknowledged, what ever side in this one tends to support. That will be scant comfort to those near and dear to these unfortunate soldiers, of course, but that is rather in the nature of the enterprise.

[dfong63]

19. hear, hear

since when did it become "terrorism" for an invaded populace to fight the invading army?

and what would that say about the US revolution against the British, and the acts of the US revolutionary army? terrorists?

[Aidoneus]

22. on the one hand, 'consider the source'

JPost and Army Radio, the vocabulary of the latter which Haaretz repeated as well.

[The Magistrate]

27. All Peoples, And All Persons, Have The Right Of Self-Defense, Mr. Fong

It is my own iron policy to never use the terms "terrorist" or "terrorism", as they are fundamentally meaningless coinages.

The right of self-defense, however, does not convey a right to criminal behavior in its exercise, and the attacks by various Arab Palestinian irregular bodies aimed deliberately to kill Israeli civilians are indeed crimes of war: that cannot be whitewashed by invoking "self defense" or "resistance to occupation" or any other common shibboleth.

[bemildred]

17. Seems fairly "competent" again, too.

Diversions and all. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are claiming
it (Don't fall all over yourselves, boys.) From Haaretz:

Al Manar television, run by Hezbollah, said a
caller to its Gaza office claimed joint
responsibility on behalf of Hamas and Islamic
Jihad. The dead attacker was identified as
Samir Fouda, 21, a Hamas militant from Gaza's
Jebaliya refugee camp, and said the other
assailant escaped.

The two Palestinian groups announced after a
meeting in Beirut on Monday that they would
strengthen their "bilateral cooperation" in
battling "the Zionist aggression against the
Palestinian people."

Haaretz

[The Magistrate]

23. A Good Point, Mr. Mildred

Since it is clearly possible for such operations to be carried out successfully, the frequently encountered argument that the various armed Arab Palestinian bodies have no other way to fight but the demolitions aimed at killing civilians becomes rather a hash. Similarly, when the Palestine Authority rather quickly swept up suspects in the demolition of the U.S. vehicle in Gaza, it demonstrated there does, in fact, exist some real police power that Authority could turn against armed bodies acting counter to its desires.

Had the last several years seen a series of attacks like this, aimed at soldiers on the territories overrun in '67, the political situation, whether in the world, the United States, or even Israel, would be much different than it is today, and far more favorable to the prospects of Arab Palestine.

[Aidoneus]

25. indeed

cooperation in such operations seems a bit uncharacterstic, but in their best interests.

Notable is the planning behind this, the diversion and infiltration itself, timed to match the fog for cover. Whoever is planning these recent acts seems to have their "thinking caps" on.

On the side, the mystery of that guy shot near the Gaza border fence seems to be solved, with an obviously dangerous "elderly man"/terrorist being finally brought to justice:--

The attack comes hours after Israel Defense
Forces troops shot dead a Palestinian man who
they say approached the fence surrounding the
Gaza Strip settlement of Alei Sinai late
Thursday, Israel Radio reported.

At daybreak, the soldiers found the body of an
elderly local man, who often shouted cureses(sic) at
them, but was not considered a threat. Maj.
Gen. Harel said that the troops spotted
suspicious movements using night-vision
equipment and shot in the direction of the
figure.

[tinnypriv]

18. Another legitimate act

Very brave too. Netzarim is exceedingly well guarded.

Notice they went specifically towards the IDF barracks.

[bemildred]

20. It has me wondering what the response will be.

Another round of Hellfire missiles into Gaza?
Pick a fight with Hizbollah?
Threats against Syria and/or Iran?
Bomb another empty training camp?
A "security fence" wandering around Gaza?
"Removal" of Arafat?
Stay tuned.

[Aidoneus]

26. my guess would be a blindfold & a dartboard

with one among those chosen at random.

[bemildred]

39. My mistake, something new.

Blow up some Palestinian security buildings:

http://www.democraticunderground.org/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=184019

Perhaps we have a new motif for these situations.

[dfong63]

21. let's see now,

it's "self defense" when an Israeli helicopter shoots missiles at a civilian car, in a foreign land yet, BUT

it's "terrorism" when Palestinian forces attack a foreign military installation, on Palestinian territory.

sheesh.

[Resistance]

32. you got it

[Saudade]

40. Well done!

This is good.

We have a completely illegitimate settlement in Gaza, the purpose of which is to take (steal) land from Palestinians.

Then we have the IDF as "security" for this disgusting settlement. One central reason for this settlement is to provide an excuse for Israel's military presence in Gaza.

So, the resistance takes out a few of the foreign occupiers, who are violating every law in existence, and they are not even the ambiguous "citizens" who are settlers. They are military.

Well done! I hope there is more of this.

I also consider settlers to be valid military targets insofar as the settlers consider themselves, and are considered by the GOI to be the frontline in the colonialist endeavor to ethnically cleanse "Greater Israel."

[Gimel]

43. Negotiated Peace

Progressives promote peace. It has long been observed that a negotiated peace is the only way to reach an end to the conflict. Allowing illegal militants to attack Israeli bases will solve nothing.

If Israel attacks militants there is an uproar here. That is the bias that I see towards the Palesinians.

[Darranar]

50. No...

WHEN INNOCENT PALESTINIANS DIE OR SUFFER because of an Israeli attack there is uproar.

[bluesoul]

51. Darranar hits the nail

Exactly!

[The Magistrate]

45. Your Postscript, Sir, Is Going A Little Far

Settlers are civilians, by and large.

It is true there are some para-militaries among them, but absent evidence, or at least a credible claim, that these are the targets, the civilian character remains.

[IndianaGreen]

47. Not in Gaza!

Settlers are armed in Gaza, and they are also among the most rabid religious fanatics. There is no excuse for settlements in Gaza. They are a fair target, as the French settlers were fair targets in Algeria and in Vietnam, and as the British settlers were in Kenya during the Mau Mau rebellion.

There are no Jewish historical ties to Gaza, unlike the other occupied territories.

Israel should pull out of Gaza at once!

[The Magistrate]

46. Your Postscript, Sir, Is Going A Little Far

Settlers are civilians, by and large.

It is true there are some para-militaries among them, but absent evidence, or at least a credible claim, that these are the targets, the civilian character remains.

[IndianaGreen]

41. Strange Orwellian twist of the English language....

Israel has no business being in Gaza, so to refer to any Gazan as "infiltrating" their own land seems like a strange Orwellian twist of the English language.

"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the
manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words,
you can control the people who must use the words."

(Philip K.Dick)