IDF killed wanted Palestinians despite court guidelines, documents show

[Violet_Crumble]

The Israel Defense Forces has assassinated wanted men in apparent defiance of High Court of Justice guidelines for such operations, according to operational briefings obtained by Haaretz.

The documents reveal that the IDF approved assassinations in the West Bank even when it could have been possible to arrest the targets instead, and that top-ranking army officers authorized the killings in advance, in writing, even if innocent bystanders would be killed as well.

Moreover, the assassination of at least one member of a so-called "ticking infrastructure" was postponed due to an impending visit by a senior U.S. official.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1041160.html

[martymar64]

1. Murderers

It is for things like this that the Govt of Israel is illegitimate in my eyes.
It's South Africa transplanted to the ME.

[aquart]

3. Let's hear it for suicide bombers and exploded buses full of children.

Oh, those poor suffering endlessly innocent Palestinians. They only commit murder because they want land that someone else has. A perfectly good reason to kill, and shell, and talk children and young women into wearing suicide vests.

I'm impressed by your tight and narrow definition of murderers. Just Jews.

[Violet_Crumble]

5. The poster didn't even mention Jews...

Just like the article didn't mention suicide bombers and exploded buses full of children, well, coz there haven't been any of those for a long while now...

Just curious, but do you consider the West Bank to belong to Israel?

[martymar64]

7. There you go again

Defending murderers by shrieking about antisemitism. Typical for you, someone who sees Palestinians as nothing more than animals to be slaughtered without a second thought. Do you miss your hero Meir Kahane?

As for the Palestinians, if you were in their shoes, what would you do, just roll over and die quietly?

[LeftishBrit]

8. Stop talking like Bush,

Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean that they love terrorists.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. 'Just because someone doesn't agree with you'???

How can you describe that swill as someone merely disagreeing with the poster yr replying to? Hell, they accused the poster of antisemitism as well as repeating their often-repeated dislike of Palestinians in general. If it'd been a decent and civil sort of post that was being replied to, I'd agree with you, but in this case yr way off track...

[LeftishBrit]

11. Irrelevant here

You do NOT accuse people of supporting Meir Kahane, without proof. Whatever they've said, unless it actually was "I love the Kahanists!" or "Here's a wonderful link to Masada2000". That's actually worse than accusing someone of antisemitism, anti-Arab prejudice, racism, whatever. The latter can refer to biases that we're not fully aware of. The former involves active support for terrorism - and for someone, moreover, who is particularly HATED by all left-wing Jews and Israelis. How would anyone here like to be accused of supporting Al Quaeda, or supporting the Ku Klux Klan?

I don't agree with all of Aquart's post myself, but that's beside the point: that doesn't give anyone the right to say that Kahane is his hero!

[Violet_Crumble]

12. No, it's not...

It's not worse, and it's not better. They're both against the rules and what's more, referring to Aquarts post as merely being one that disagreed with the poster is really downplaying things bigtime.

[Crunchy Frog]

17. Yes, because you can't possibly be against terrorism and in favor

of the rule of law at the same time. :eyes:

[aquart]

2. What a surprise.

Suicide bombers. Torpedoes over the borders. Buses and restaurants blown up. But the OTHER side should play fair? Yeah, that'll happen.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. So yr admitting that neither side plays fair?

If you'd read the article, you'd have noticed that there's nothing about buses and restaurants being blown up, so it looks pretty weak to try to use that as a justification for ignoring Israel's High Court and going right ahead with targetted assasinations which didn't follow the High Court's guidelines....

[LeftishBrit]

6. I agree neither side plays fair.

And the IDF should obey the law and the guidelines.

However - and I know this is a controversial view - I tend to think that, if one must have wars at all, targeted assassinations are less evil than most other tactics. I have said this with regard to both sides - e.g. on a thread about a Palestinian threat to assassinate Avigdor Lieberman. The political and military/paramilitary leaders are the ones who generally choose to have the wars, so I think it is less evil to target them than civilians or even ordinary soldiers. Not that I support violence, but the leaders generally start the wars or instigate the acts of terrorism, so it's fairer for them to have their lives on the line than ordinary citizens.

[Violet_Crumble]

9. The problem I see with degrees of less evil with tactics...

...is that basically they're all still evil when it boils down to it. For example, firing qassams into Israel is less evil than a suicide bombing. The problem with targetted assassinations overall is that they remove the need for a targetted person to go through any judicial process to establish their guilt and it's just a wild west sped up version of the US death penalty. It's difficult to target combatants and political leaders without killing civilians in the process, and that's another problem I have with it. One interesting thing is that before I went on hiatus, one poster didn't seem to view the Palestinian execution of Rehavam Ze'ev as a targetted assassination, but the murder of an innocent old bloke. I can't see how that was anything other than a targetted assassination, and as nasty as he was, I was as opposed to that targetted assassination as I was to any of the targetted assassinations Israel has carried out...

[Scurrilous]

13. License to kill

<snip>

"The announcement made by the Israel Defense Forces' spokesman on June 20, 2007 was standard: "Two armed terrorists belonging to the Islamic Jihad terror organization were killed last night during the course of a joint activity of the IDF and a special force of the Border Police in Kafr Dan, northwest of Jenin. The two terrorists, Ziad Subahi Mahmad Malaisha and Ibrahim Ahmed Abd al-Latif Abed, opened fire at the force during its activity. In response the force fired at them, killing the terrorists. On their bodies two M-16 rifles, a pistol and ammunition were found. It was also discovered that the terrorists were involved in planning suicide attacks against the Israeli home front, including the attempt in Rishon Letzion last February."

The laconic announcement ignores one important detail: Malaisha was a target for assassination. His fate had been decided several months earlier, in the office of then head of Central Command, Yair Naveh. As far as the public was concerned, on the other hand, the last declared assassination carried out by the IDF in the West Bank took place in August 2006; at the end of that year the High Court of Justice set strict criteria regarding the policy of assassinations in the territories.

A Haaretz Magazine investigation reveals for the first time operational discussions in which the fate of wanted men and innocent people was decided, in apparent disregard of the High Court decision. Thus it was revealed that the IDF approved assassination plans in the West Bank even when it would probably have been possible to arrest the wanted men - in contradiction to the State's statement to the High Court - and that in cold military terminology the most senior IDF echelons approve, in advance and in writing, the harming of innocent Palestinians during the course of assassination operations. Moreover, it turns out that the assassination of a target the defense establishment called part of a "ticking infrastructure" was postponed, because it had been scheduled to take place during the visit of a senior U.S. official.

Leading legal experts who were asked to react to the documents say that the IDF is operating in contradiction to a High Court ruling. "Morality is a very difficult issue," Prof. Mordechai Kremnitzer of Hebrew Univeristy said. "The thought that there are people who sit behind a desk and determine that someone is fated to die is a frightening thought."

more

[azurnoir]

14. Didn't something similar

happen in Bethlehem last March

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=205249

[Scurrilous]

15. Rights group to Mazuz: Probe IDF targeted killings in West Bank

<snip>

"A human rights organization appealed to Attorney General Menachem Mazuz on Tuesday to open a criminal investigation into the Israel Defense Forces' planning and execution of targeted killings.

The move comes in response to a Haaretz investigation which revealed that the IDF has assassinated wanted men in apparent defiance of High Court of Justice guidelines for such operations.

Operational briefings reveal that the IDF approved assassinations in the West Bank even when it could have been possible to arrest the targets instead, and that top-ranking army officers authorized the killings in advance, in writing, even if innocent bystanders would be killed as well.

Attorneys representing the Public Committee Against Torture in Israel demand that Mazuz issue strict, ironclad guidelines that unequivocally ban targeted killings in cases where it is possible to arrest terror suspects.

In their letter to the attorney general, the lawyers, Michael Sfard and Avigdor Feldman, also insist that Mazuz publish legal directives that forbid the army from preemptively authorizing the harm of innocent civilians."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1045081.html

[IndianaGreen]

16. They are beginning to look like Blackwater, everywhere you look,

You don't hear that crap about IDF being "the most moral army in the world" anymore.