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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 09:42 PM
Original message
Jewish World / The language of anti-Semitism
When, in 2003, the veteran Labour MP Tam Dalyell described the then British Prime Minister Tony Blair as being influenced by a "Jewish cabal," he was roundly condemned for making what many saw as an obviously antisemitic remark. Some, though, sought to justify his comment as a legitimate, if poorly-worded, criticism of Israel's supporters, rather than something more sinister.

The late left-wing journalist Paul Foot, writing in The Guardian, explained that Dalyell was "wrong to complain about Jewish pressure on Blair and Bush when he means Zionist pressure."

The idea that political leaders are influenced for malign purposes by Jews is at the heart of modern anti-Semitism. It is an alarming but increasingly familiar notion that by swapping "Zionist" for "Jewish" - i.e. that the then Prime Minister was surrounded by a "Zionist cabal" - Dalyell's comment can be rendered apparently "bigotry-free." This is typical of an anti-Semitic discourse by which the most common ideas, themes and images from the history of anti-Semitism have re-emerged in recent years, cloaked in an anti-Israel or anti-Zionist wrapping.

This is something that the U.K.'s All-Party Parliamentary Inquiry into Antisemitism recognised. Their report noted the existence of an anti-Semitic discourse, the difficulty in identifying and defining it, and that ideas and images with roots in traditional antisemitism crop up in anti-Israel commentary and activism. The Inquiry called on the media in particular to consider "the impact of language and imagery in current discourse on Judaism, anti-Zionism and Israel."

This is not an easy subject to analyse. Opinions will differ over exactly where, or whether, an anti-Israel screed becomes anti-Semitic. Often, the writer or publisher in question may be completely unaware that the words or images they choose have an anti-Semitic provenance. There is a necessary process of education before it can even be asked why a particular metaphor appealed to them, or why they thought it would resonate with their readers.

more...
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. so basically,
the author is a bodyguard for Jewish associations and people, trying to drum up business for himself by fearmongering. What a true capitalist.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Your post makes no sense.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. What's the word?
Edited on Fri Sep-05-08 09:58 PM by madeline_con
What phrase can be used in anti-Israeli government discussion that is NOT anti-Semitic? I haven't heard one yet that pro Israelis will accept. Please educate us.

I think articles like this aim to silence anti-Israeli dissent. What makes Israel so sacred that it can't be criticized? It's not that "chosen" thing, is it?

All you've got is that this is about the Jewish religion?
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Is anti-Semitism and basic bigotry that difficult a concept for you to understand?
I think postings like yours are a prime example of what is wrong with those who wish to debate/discuss Israel and the I/P conflict. You are unable to discern the basic and most egregious forms of anti-Semitism, and when it is pointed out as being such, you retreat to the old "we can't every criticize Israel without being accused of anti-Semitism." That charge is as bogus as those that incorrectly use anti-Semitism charges as a weapon to silence discussion.

The sad fact is that, to many, anti-Semitism is acceptable, even from self-proclaimed liberals and progressives. When it is 'coded', then it is even more acceptable. Unfamiliar with coded bigotry, I direct you to GD and the comments from Westmoreland about Obama being "uppity."

Really, what is so damn difficult to understand that using anti-Semitic imagery or language applied to Israel is anti-Semitic?
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. So, what can we say that won't offend?
Seriously, it seems if it disagrees with Israel's supporters, it's anti-Semitic.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. "it seems if it disagrees with Israel's supporters, it's anti-Semitic."
Unsubstantiated hyperbolic drivel and a prime example of what I said earlier "Oh, I can't say anything about Israel because I will be labeled an anti-Semite."

If you really want to know what can be said, I suggest you read the article again.

"Seriously, it seems if it disagrees with anti-Israel's supporters, it's an accusation of being anti-Semitic."

That would be more accurate.
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sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. First off
Why should we be anti anything?

You can criticize Israel with being anti-Israel. You can say that Israel is wrong to be continuing to build settlements on the west bank or expanding existing ones. Instead they should do what they did in Gaza. Pull everyone back behind the approximate green line (with some adjustments made for security reasons). If they feel they do not have a peace partner, then do a unilateral pull back.

But the term "zionists" has definitely become a code word for "jews" in many anti-semetic circles.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. 'Zionists' as code for Jews...
has existed for a long time.

Certainly used at times by Soviet antisemites in the late 70s (I've come across an example of academic rivalry from that time, where a Russian mathematician described an American mathematician, Jewish but with no particular connection to Israel, as 'a mediocre scientist but an aggressive Zionist'). Probably goes back much earlier than that.

Not that *every* critical use of the word 'Zionist' means Jew; but when people speak of 'Zionists controlling the world' and the like, it's pretty clear what it means.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. delete (posted in wrong place)
Edited on Sat Sep-06-08 03:11 AM by LeftishBrit
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. The attached CST report discusses all these issues
The relationship between antisemitism,
anti-Israel activity and anti-Zionism is
central to contemporary British antisemitism,
and to the concerns of British Jews.

The bastardisation of the word “Zionist”
is crucial to this process. Anti-Israel
activists, open antisemites and
extremists of diverse political shades
are converging upon a mutual definition
of Zionism that is rooted in traditional
antisemitic conspiracy motifs, and owes
nothing to Jewish definitions of the term.
To many self-described “anti-Zionists”,
the word “Zionist” now resonates as a
political, financial, military and media
conspiracy that is centred in Washington
and Tel Aviv, and which opposes
authentic local interests.

snip

Criticism of Israel or Zionism is not
antisemitic per se. However, it risks
becoming so when traditional antisemitic
themes are employed or echoed. This
commonly occurs when the word
“Zionist” or “Israeli” is substituted where
“Jew” would have previously appeared.
The Parliamentary Inquiry found that
“discourse has developed that is in effect
antisemitic because it views Zionism
itself as a global force of unlimited
power and malevolence throughout
history.

snip

British Jewish leaders and
representative bodies, including CST,
the Board of Deputies of British Jews
and the Chief Rabbi, have repeatedly
and sincerely stated that it is entirely
correct that Israel should be subject
to criticism, just as any nation state
is. Indeed, Israel is subject to
extensive media and political scrutiny
and criticism, especially compared
to other overseas countries
and the reactions that they evoke.

Nevertheless, some mainstream
media commentators and political
activists regularly accuse Jewish
representative bodies of manipulating
antisemitism as a smear with which
to target any criticism of Israel.
This false accusation effectively labels
British Jewish representative bodies
as liars and concealed front groups
for Israel. Additionally, British Jewish
representatives are often treated with
derision and contempt whenever they
do actually raise concerns about
antisemitism.

The false accusation is often accompanied
by the claim that politicians and
journalists are too fearful for their
careers and personal safety, to speak
out against Israel and the alleged Jewish
cover-ups on its behalf. This charge is
partly reliant upon the antisemitic notion
of an all pervasive and all powerful pro-
Israeli conspiracy,


http://www.thecst.org.uk/docs/Antisemitic%20Discourse%20Report%202007_web.pdf


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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Surely, the sort of things one can say about any government that one dislikes
What if it was the American, or British, or Iranian government?

One can say that they are wrong, or wicked, or murderers, or warmongers, or racists, etc, etc. One may be right or wrong when one says such things. But it is not racist.

However, once one starts saying that *all* or *most* Israelis are bad people, and especially if one borrows past anti-semitic imagery to do so, then it becomes dodgier. If one says that Israel is responsible for the evil actions of *other* countries, or has excessive control over the world, it becomes dodgier still. And if one blames Diaspora Jews for the actions of Israel, or demands that they denounce Israel as a condition for acceptance, or uses 'Zionist' as a code for Jew (and yes, it happens), or blames antisemitism on the actions of Jews themselves - then yes, it is definitely antisemitic.

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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. The point is that the Jews haters
couch their hatred in "anti-Zionist", but, they really are, anti-semitic.

If someone has problems with Israeli policy, by all means, they should voice them.

But too often, people say "ISRAEL", as opposed to Israeli government, or ALL ISRAELIS, when they are criticizing.

I have long believed that the accusations against ISRAEL, are simply because it is comprised primarily of Jews, and people still can't cope with that.

All the more reason that we need Israel, a safe haven for Jews.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Word police again?
Do you require those writing about the US or the UK to specify that they only mean the government? When writing about any group the content of the what is should be taken inro account, for most it is obvious when it is the governmental policy being referred to such as criticizing military policy or other plainly governmental policies such agreements ect, or the people of that country in cases where the suffering of an entire people is said to be deserved because of who they presumably voted into office.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. You have long believed falsely
Edited on Sun Sep-07-08 01:07 PM by azurnoir
but that is hardly a surprise as need to justify their own judgments by accusing others of the same and oncer again just who is this WE you speak of are you actually claiming to be a Jew or an Israeli?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-08 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. Hijacking the thread a bit...
but here's a link to another article by the same author.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1013644.html

He is a British Jew; and this article puts antisemitism in Britain (a real and ancient problem)in a sensible perspective, and combats some of the American and other stereotypes that it's a dreadful country to be Jewish/ eeeevil antisemitic Muslims and their supporters are taking over/ the country is awash with antisemitism, and there will soon be a flood of refugees from here/ etc. As a British Jew myself, I agree with his conclusions.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
13. It is always good to see it stated that Zionists and Jews ought not be conflated.
I think any serious portrayal of any group of human beings as animals or using disease metaphors about them is bigoted discourse, on it's face. On the other hand, Orwell's depiction of human political realities as occurring among farm animals we consider as acceptable, even witty. I tend to think this is because it is not about any particular group of humans, it's about the flaws that we all tend to exhibit. So it seems that there must be some specificity in such slurs for them to be bigoted, they must be about some particular group.

Given the pejorative nature of the term "anti-semitic", it seems to me that one ought to be as least as careful about applying it to people, or groups of people, as one would be with any other slur.

This piece elaborates the fact that the meaning of the word is difficult to identify and define, and that people may coincidentally use imagery that has been used by undoubted anti-semites in the past. It is also true that various "anti-semitic" images have been applied to parties who are not Jewish. Images of distasteful animals and disease metaphors tend to crop up whenever some party is out to dehumanized someone else and make it more acceptable to kill them.

One of the problems with the term "anti-semitic" is that it implies a knowledge of the feeling and intent of persons that it is applied to, i.e. that they hate Jews. Now, one ought to be cautious about assuming that one knows that about another person based on a few words written somewhere. It is true that I see quite a lot of writing that I consider clearly anti-semitic, but there is also a vast clot of stuff that is more or less ambiguous as to the writers intentions in that regard. It does seem to me that a lot of people speak and write naively on the subject, that is without much knowledge, as they would about any other subject which has not been of much interest to them before; as for example people now are full of opinion about Georgia and Russia without knowing much about them.

It would be nice, in this regard, if there were some sort of clear rules of discourse that would allow one to criticize Israel or its government, or its governments policies, or particular Jews or Jewish organizations, in the same way as one would any similar entities, secure in the knowledge that one is not doing so in a bigoted way. But I suppose that is too much to expect. Attempting to criticize anyone or anything always exposes one to the danger of a descent into differences of opinion and exchanges of abuse.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. While it is true that Zionist and Jew should
not be conflated as neither group is all encompassing of the other, it becomes "difficult" when Israel claims to be a Jewish State and is by those terms also Zionist in nature. You are correct in pointing out that comparisons between animals, diseases, and Jews represented in early Christian texts as deamons are indeed antiSemetic or the ridiculous claims that Jews control anything on a global or national scale outside of possibly Israel. The problem is the greyer area, which occurs quite frequently and for some on both sides of the issue is kept that way grey, for political purposes the problem is that when it takes a few paragraphs to explain why a single statement is antiSemetic most people tend to ignore that and real antiSematism becomes easier to to "pass off" as legitimate opinion.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. True. I chose to avoid going into that quagmire.
That's where the "descent into differences of opinion and exchanges of abuse" tends to happen.

It is true that Israel is conflated with Jews all the time by persons who favor it. That is why I noticed that this fellow wanted the distinction kept clear. It is worth mentioning that persons who hate Israel will commonly conflate those two as well. Hmmmm ...

It is true that the sloppy use of antisemitism as a term of abuse does a disservice to its more important meanings and purposes. When you degrade the use of language, you degrade meaning itself, and that impoverishes you, whether you have the wits to understand it or not. Words are what we think with, and when you make them dull and fuzzy, you make yourself a dull and fuzzy thinker.
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