Olmert defiant on settlements

[bemildred]

Ehud Olmert has said that Israel will not stop building on occupied land in and around Jerusalem, defying US criticism and sparking protests from Palestinians during renewed negotiations.

The Israeli prime minister said his government would continue to build hundreds of new apartments in Har Homa in east Jerusalem.

"There will be places where there will be construction, or additions to construction, because these places will remain in Israel's hands," Olmert said during a visit to Israel by Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, on Monday.

'Inseparable part of Jerusalem'

"This includes, first and foremost, Jerusalem," he said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/B7A5BE7C-1AAE-454F-B7BE-1984F6C3367F.htm

[acmavm]

1. Israel is the biggest impediment to peace in the Middle East and

as soon as we come to terms with that fact maybe we can figure out a way to deal with it. First and foremost we need to cut Israel off period. No money, no weapons, zip, nada, nihil, zilch.

Another thread on the subject:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x205449

[Vegasaurus]

2. Now there's a really enlightened post

There is no impediment to peace in the way of lack of recognition of Israeli, hatred of Jews, not to mention suicide bombers, daily rocket fire, murderous terrorists, violent resisters.

All those peaceful Palestinians just want peace; they have no desire to harm innocent Israelis, and would like nothing more than to live side by side with the Jewish state.

:sarcasm:

[acmavm]

3. You are damn right that's enlightened. Israel has been totally

uncooperative in every move anyone has ever made to try to bring peace to the area. Europe has already gotten sick and tired of Israel's obstructionist ways. It is long past the time that the United States should have let them sink or swim on it's own.

[henank]

4. Pffft! You are funny!

Europe has gotten sick of Israel? Read Angela Merkel's speech to the Knesset this very afternoon.

Israel has been "uncooperative in every move" anyone ever made towards peace??? What do you call the Gaza withdrawal? The Sinai withdrawal? The Lebanon withdrawal? The withdrawal from some North Samaria settlements?

It seems that Israel can do no right in your eyes. It would even seem from your words - "Israel is the biggest impediment to peace in the Middle East" - that you think that the very existence of Israel is the impediment to peace in the Middle East. Which may very well be true in the strict sense of the word, but Israel and Israelis have no intention of going away.

[acmavm]

6. You're delusional if you think that Israel is an honest party

to any peach initiatives.

And yes, Europe and Europeans have wised up. And now its time for us to cut the umbilical cord and let them sink or swim. Let them start their war with Iran and fight it on their own.

No one said Israel's existence is the problem. It's the hardcore zionists. And they are a danger and a menace to everyone, especially their own people.

[henank]

7. Tell me something

Who do you classify as hard core Zionists? Are they the government? The settlers? The right wing? The religious? The average Israeli who sees Israel as his homeland? All these people are Zionists. You won't find any Israeli who thinks that Zionists are a menace to themselves.

So just to be clear in my own head, who are you actually talking about? And how big a proportion of the Israeli population do you think they are?

Regarding a possible war against Iran, do you really think Israel is just itching for a war against Iran? Don't you think that Israel doesn't consider it has enough on its plate with Gaza burning up on the southern flank, the West Bank a hotbed of terrorism on the eastern flank, and Hizbollah jsut itching ot launch another war against Israel on the northern flank? And the Mediterranean Sea probably reaching boiling point on the western flank because of global warming...

If you really got to know Israelis and if you actually got to speak to real Israelis, you would find that there is nothing they'd like less than a war against Iran. All you've got to do is persuade Iran to stop developing their nukes and to stop threatening Israel.

[Vegasaurus]

8. This is what people fail to understand

Leave the Israelis alone, and there will be NO retaliation. No wars.

It is because of Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLO, the dozens of other terrorist groups who want to do nothing more with their lives than blow up Israelis (and themselves in the process) that there is unrest in the middle east.

Had Israelis been allowed the freedom to live in peace, ever, there could have been a prosperous Palestinian state, living side by side with Israel. There could have been productive commerce and cooperation, and a better life for all the people than living on global aid for 60 years in squalid refugee camps.

This is the result of the terrorists and their many sympathizers choosing war, terrorism and and resistance over cooperation and peace.

The Israelis would like nothing more than to be free of all of these terrorists. If you think otherwise, you have never met an Israeli.

[stranger81]

15. Right -- leave Israel alone to steal as much land as it likes, and kill as many Palestinians

as it wishes, and everything would be just peachy.

What's wrong with you people, anyway? Don't you see how unjust it is to oppose murder and land theft if it's done by Israelis?

If only people would stop objecting to being killed and thrown out of their homes, there would be peace in the Middle East.

Very simple, really.

[LeftishBrit]

10. A majority of Israelis are AGAINST war with Iran

Many, probably most, do support economic sanctions; but most do not support war.

What are 'hardcore Zionists'? Do you mean the Israeli Right, or who?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

14. The problem is, that increasingly, its the military elites who seem to rule the country,

and those folks DO SEEM to be in favor of war!

[LeftishBrit]

9. And I would add to that...

that there are plenty of conflicts in the Middle East that don't involve Israel at all. I would say that America and Britain have been pretty strong impediments to peace in the Middle East by invading Iraq!!! And Iraq and Iran were in conflict for a long time before that. Not everything, even in the Middle East, is about Israel.

[Vegasaurus]

12. Absolutely

although you will always hear the "it's Israel's fault that we went to war with Iraq" or that any of the myriad conflicts are "because of Israel."

Of course, all the civil war, sectarian violence and tribal warfare have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Israel, but people will even blame Israel for the sectarian bloodbath in Iraq, the Hamas/Fatah civil war, the issues between any of the various ethnic groups in the middle east.

Those are internal problems which would exist without Israel. Israel just becomes a convenient scapegoat for all the issues but they are hardly her fault that there is so much hatred in those parts.

[breakaleg]

5. Your constant claim that "hatred of Jews" is the core of the problem let's Israel off the hook for

every rotten, and illegal, thing its done. That's all a little too convenient for me. Israel has had a huge hand in how its viewed today. It's not as simple as you would have us believe.

[stranger81]

16. It's not just convenient -- it's deliberate and disingenuous. n/t

[Vegasaurus]

17. Read the Hamas charter

Read a little of the Arab press. Or words from the Iranian nutjob.

It's not very pleasant towards Jews or Israel. In fact, it is downright inflammatory, disgusting, anti-semitic and sabre rattling.

[LeftishBrit]

11. Sigh...

wish he'd show more sense.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

13. I wish he'd stop torpedoing any chance for peace.