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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:01 PM
Original message
PM may create new strategic affairs post for Lieberman
Avigdor Lieberman is willing to make do with a single ministry should his Yisrael Beiteinu Party join the coalition, Lieberman recently informed Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

According to the emerging deal between the two, the portfolio in question would be a new ministry for strategic affairs. In the past, Lieberman had said that he wanted either the Defense or the Public Security Ministry, so the new portfolio would satisfy his desire for something security-related.

Sources close to Olmert said the chances of Lieberman's joining the coalition were greater than 50 percent, although it is not yet a done deal. Lieberman and Olmert will meet again at the end of next week, after Olmert's return from Russia.

But the proposed deal is arousing anger among Lieberman's party, since according to the key used to divvy up ministries to other parties, Yisrael Beiteinu's 12 Knesset seats should entitle it to three or four ministries.

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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. 'Only force?'
By Haaretz Editorial

Just six months ago, the Olmert-Peretz government wrote in its government guidelines, under the heading "Minorities," that the government would ensure equality of rights for Arab citizens, expedite the process of resolving land disputes and accelerate the preparation of master plans for Arab communities, taking into account the needs of the Arab population and the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. It now turns out that those who signed these guidelines see no contradiction between them and the inclusion of Avigdor Lieberman in the coalition. Lieberman, who declares his wish to arrange for Arab communities to be transferred across the border, symbolizes the opposite of the aforementioned promises. This cynical approach to the government's commitments lends itself to a similar attitude toward the entire democratic process.

In the next elections, politicians will find it even more difficult to drag voters to the polling booths. Every time there is a glimmer of hope for change, such as the "big bang" that announced the creation of Kadima - a party whose agenda has evaporated - the disappointment just gets bigger. So far, the Olmert government can point to impressive achievements only in the number of people killed: hundreds of Lebanese civilians and Hezbollah members killed in a war whose necessity remains uncertain; hundreds of Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip, most of them civilians; and 160 Israelis, soldiers and civilians, killed in that same Lebanese war.

The Olmert government has proven that it will not hesitate to apply force on a massive scale. The inclusion of Lieberman would appear almost a natural development for such a government. Ehud Olmert and Amir Peretz set up a government whose aim was to determine the state's borders. This agenda was replaced by the use of force. A great many lines in the government guidelines are dedicated to the need for negotiations with the Palestinians, but no liberating formula has been found to enable dialogue between the Israeli government, which has nothing to offer, and the Hamas government, which is unwilling to recognize Israel. The aspiration to restrict settlement in the territories, which also appears in the government guidelines, has been overturned as well: Construction in the settlements continues, in a clumsy attempt to draw closer to the settlers, who returned to bosom of the national consensus during the war in Lebanon. Even the promise to remove illegal outposts no longer exists.

Kadima may disappear in the next elections, but the question is whether the Labor Party will disappear in its wake. Labor's constituents did not vote for war, nor for Peretz as minister of war. They had hoped that he would work to reduce wage gaps, cut the defense budget, formulate a pension law, reform education, subsidize day care centers, raise the minimum wage and restore old-age allotments to a reasonable level. The ridiculous infighting among Labor ministers over Lieberman's inclusion in the coalition raises major questions about the party's necessity, irrespective of who heads it.

Between the president, who is being investigated for sex crimes, and Tzachi Hanegbi, who thinks that appointing political cronies to civil service jobs is a legitimate part of politics; between the government's refusal to appoint a state commission of inquiry and the chief of staff's refusal to step down because of his failure; there is a growing feeling that this government serves only itself. The Labor Party must either reject Lieberman or exit the government.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Words mean nothing.
All is propaganda and expediency.
You ought to know that by now.
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yeah, *I* know that.
I thought that the Indefensibles, & the lurkers would appreciate Haaretz telling it how it is.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Peretz joins Peres to keep Lieberman out of gov't
Labor Party Chairman Amir Peretz and Vice Premier Shimon Peres of Kadima are discussing the creation of a joint front to block Yisrael Beiteinu's proposed entry into the coalition.

The two have virtually not spoken to each other since Peres quit the Labor Party after losing the leadership primary to Peretz. However, they are expected to meet in the coming days to discuss joining forces against Avigdor Lieberman's party.

Like Peretz, Peres opposes both Yisrael Beiteinu's entry into the government and a proposed bill to change Israel's system of government from a parliamentary to a presidential one. Lieberman has conditioned his party's entry on the bill's passage in preliminary reading.

President Olmert. Has a ring to it, eh?

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, however, supports the bill, and partly due to his efforts, the ministerial committee on legislation is expected to approve it tomorrow. Olmert has also promised that his Kadima party will support the bill in its preliminary Knesset reading.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Lieberman to power (Gideon Levy)

"Peace-seekers should support the move to bring Avigdor Lieberman into the government. It is impossible to understand the opposition of several Labor party ministers to having Yisrael Beitenu join the government after all, just what precisely are they afraid will happen? That Israel will embark on an unnecessary war? That the settlement enterprise will be reinforced? That the government will reject Syria's peace proposal? That racism toward Arab citizens of Israel will increase, or that the occupation army will be cruel to the Palestinians?

Indeed, the government in its current constellation is already providing all of this, abundantly, and Lieberman's participation would only remove its camouflage. An extreme right-wing government with Lieberman and without camouflage is preferable to a government without Lieberman that masquerades as center-left. As with the ridiculous struggle against the "illegal" outposts, which in effect legitimizes all of the other "legal" settlements, the struggle against bringing Lieberman into the government is also designed solely to accord a semblance of enlightenment to an extreme right-wing government and to legitimize Labor's participation in it. The opposition of Amir Peretz and some of his colleagues to Lieberman's joining the government is thus tainted with self-righteousness: They are already today members of a government that embarked on a worthless war, that says no to Syria, that is cruel to the Palestinians and fortifies the settlements.

Lieberman says what many people think. His racism and extreme nationalism are already out of the closet, while among many others, those qualities are still concealed deep within, even though they operate according to their spirit. They have no moral advantage over Lieberman. An openly racist and extreme nationalist is preferable to a closet racist and extreme nationalist."

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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. The last two paras of that article;

It is not difficult to guess how Israel would react if a person like Lieberman were to join one of the governments in Europe. When the racist Joerg Haider joined the Austrian government in February 2000, Israel recalled its ambassador and cut off all contact with representatives of the Austrian government. But what is forbidden to Austria is permitted to us, and the world has not blinked so far.

It is understandable and correct that the natural instinct of peace-seekers in Israel is to fiercely oppose a person who calls for the transfer of entire communities; for the moving of their residents without their consent, to a different sovereignty, simply because of their national origin; for the explusion of any citizen who is not "loyal" to the state; a man who aspires to a state "clean" of Arabs, and who only recognizes the language of force. The appointment of a minister with a fascist worldview entails severe educational and social damage. The fact that Lieberman substantially influences the views of about a million immigrants from the former Soviet Union is also bad news for Israeli society. And despite all this, Lieberman, the declared racist, is preferable to the self-righteous and hypocritical ones who may speak of peace but wage war. Lieberman to power? He has already been there a long time.'

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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. the world has not blinked so far?
Yes...they have's just things like this can't be discussed because it makes the liberal defenders of Israel embarassed to be associated with such a country...along with everything else that Israel does that makes 'people' who claim to be in favour of peace, human rights progressive issues.

Of course when discussing the tremedous victory of the Israel Party, the media defered. Now why would a media defer discussing something so unexplainably awful as a loud and proud Jewish racist party who has declared ridding Israel of arabs. The fact that this party got nearly as many votes as Likud never seems to be considered an 'important' factor in one's support. Some asked the 'Supporters' once upon a time, 'jeez will your support for Israel change if these guys get into power'.

The answer, 'oh it will never happen' But it looks like it probably will...will it give the Supporters pause for thought -- nope. Never matter what.

If fact this is the way the game works -- Israel could be run by a wanted war criminal and if real progressives point this out as a conflict with their principles, they are labeled 'racist' or 'anti-semitic'. See how the debate is avoided.

So time goes by, and Ta Da, another corner is turned towards fascism in Israel -- the Supporters still roll on and post up the SAME shit they did back in 1992 and think the same happy thoughts about Israel while in full knowledge of the fact that Israel essentially has a 'Nazi' party in power.

And laughably 'our' anti-semitism is the problem. (of course what I wrote will get deleted because you can't call Israel a fascist state and you can't imply that the Supporters are shameless propagandists no more interested in discussion than they are posting exclusively from Israeli sources conflating arabic or eurpoean anti-semitism in a forum that is generally about Israel-Palestinian issues constantly)

And YES I did successfully predict this little problem for the Supporters and how they might end up looking like hypocrites WHEN the Israel Party and Lieberman would be included in the government. I believe at that time (oh way baaack in January) the return comments from the Supporters ran the gambit from; 'never happen, Israel/Jews are just too smart' to the inevitable, 'why are you posting this...there were many parties running and many systems have extreme parties...aren't you just rashing Israel'...

(oh yes it was deleted of course)

Oh well...I try. But unfortunately we still have a situation where liberals much rather be thought of as hypocritical apologists by a growing majority than be labelled 'anti-semitic' by some rightwing asshole with a megaphone.

(yes the attack on Lebanon was ONLY motivated by the most NOBLE reasons of can't mention that racism might have been a strong motivator to many Israeli policies and tactics even THOUGH a avowedly RACIST party was involved in the planning and execution...even though that the most uninformed can see that Israel bears no resemblence to any western country anymore, that won't stop the Supporters from pushing straight up propaganda that we are suppose to take seriously?)
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Peres says not opposed to Lieberman joining coalition
Vice Premier Shimon Peres said Sunday he is not opposed to Yisrael Beiteinu joining the government, so long as the coalition government's guidelines do not change.

Peres made the comments at a meeting of Kadima ministers.

Both Peres and Labor Party Chairman Amir Peretz denied Sunday reports the two had formed a joint front to block Avigdor Lieberman's party from joining the coalition.

The two have virtually not spoken to each other since Peres quit the Labor Party after losing the leadership primary to Peretz. Reports had surfaced the two would meet in the coming days to discuss joining forces against Avigdor Lieberman's party.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Always room for someone as extreme as A. Lieberman.
Or is what Lieberman stands for really so extreme? Or is it now the mainstream of Israeli political thought?
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. He was recently demanding the execution of Arab MKs
who speak with Hamas. and many other bits of wisdom.

Okay, this man is probably more extreme than Nati Tamir, yet there were many who were trying to say career diplomat Nati was just an aberration. Naturally, the Israeli military and government being busy starving Palestinians, it is taking awhile to "discipline" Nati. Yet, a man to the right of Nati is going to have a government appointment. With maybe little opposition.

Things have really sunk low in Israel politics.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. A Black Flag -- Gush Shalom's Statement
Edited on Tue Oct-17-06 11:10 PM by Tom Joad
עברית מצורפת

When the racist Joerg Haider joined the Austrian government, the Israeli government
recalled our ambassador from Vienna.

Now there is an intention to invite Avigdor Liberman, a racist much worse than
Haider, to join the Israeli government itself.

The inclusion of Liberman in the government is not just a change in the coalition.
It raises a black flag over the State of Israel.

The very idea that such a person, which such views, can be a member of the
Government of Israel is shocking. It shames everyone who advocates it.

Liberman is a threat to the fabric of Israeli society, a threat to a whole sector of
citizens, a threat to democracy, a threat to any chance for Israel to achieve peace
with its neighbors.

The proposed law for the change of the regime, which has been introduced by Liberman
in the Knesset, is not just a proposal for another change in the mechanism of
government. It is the first step towards the establishment of a dictatorship, which
will lead to national disaster.

This is a road of no return.

A cynical Prime Minister, out to save his skin, together with a gang of corrupt
and/or stupid politicians, are helping Liberman to put his foot in the door of
Israeli democracy.

Anyone who raises his hand in favor of Liberman and his proposals raises his hand
against the State of Israel as defined by the Declaration of Independence, a state
that was supposed to be democratic, peace-oriented, with equality for all its

Each of them will be remembered forever with shame.


All this chatter about how Naftali Tamir (Of "yellow race" infamy) is not representative of the views the Israeli regime will not hold up if this man gets a government post... Lieberman is much worse than Tamir.
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