UN envoy to Livni: IDF raid near Baalbek violated cease-fire

[spindrifter]

Haaretz.com
Tue., August 22, 2006 Av 28, 5766

By Aluf Benn, Haaretz Correspondent

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan views the Israel Defense Forces' commando operation near Baalbek over the weekend as a violation of the cease-fire agreement, UN envoy Terje Roed-Larsen told Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni during their meeting in Jerusalem Monday.

"If you discovered arms smuggling, you could have complained through diplomatic channels," Larsen said.

"We will consider that route as well," Livni replied with a smile.

In her conversation with Larsen, Livni underscored the importance of an international force in Lebanon, commenting that its deployment would reflect the seriousness of the international community. According to Livni, it is important for Israel that the peacekeeping force has a large majority of soldiers from NATO countries, although it is not ruling out the participation of Asian states as well.

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http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/753234.html

[Solo_in_MD]

1. If any violation of the ceasefire is only to be addressed via diplomatic

channels, shouldn't the UN also be critiquing Hezbollah for the importation of weapons and for shooting at the IDF while they were there? Whining cookie pushers do not impress me, Hezbollah or Israel.

Seriously, unless the UN can field a credible force (and it looks like France is welshing on it part), stops the flow of weapons, and Hezbollah disarms, its not a ceasefire, its a timeout and nothing more.

Unfortunately if it does resume, given the ugly attitude in Israel right now, instead of it being a measured and limited campaign, expect quite a bit more death and destruction. Those who whine about the civilian deaths fail to realize just how few they were compared to what would have happened if the IDF had not worked hard to limit them.

While I do not agree with the approach Israel chose, not to deal with the realies on the ground and enforce the weapons ban in southern Lebanon will only lead to much more horrific violence.

[msmcghee]

2. You say, "While I do not agree with . .

. . the approach Israel chose, . . "

I'm not sure how "chosen" that approach was. It seems to me that the approach Israel implemented was fairly inept and poorly planned. That's not saying that they purposely chose to kill Lebanese civilians at random to teach them a lesson - or help them decide that supporting Hizbullah had bad consequences.

I think Olmert was caught a bit off-guard and being relatively new in office - as well as having no military experience - the response was disorganized and fractured. I think Olmert gave the go-ahead to any targets that could reasonably be expected to slow the stream of missiles being fired into Israel. Targets were probably chosen without much oversight.

But, there are no international rules that say that ineptitude in defending yourself is a war crime. Wars are not rational exercises anyway - they are insane acts that always kill many innocent people.

Rather than say I do not agree with the approach Israel chose, I would say I hope they get their military shit together - and right now. Hizbullah was well organized and more than ready for Israel's inept response. I really doubt that will happen again. If the reality has changed in the ME - it is that Israel's response to future acts of aggression against her citizens will be both competent and far more devastating and on-target than this one.

I think that will save many lives in the long run - both Israeli and Arab. And that's good.

[FlavaKreemSnak]

3. It really doesn't matter what Kofi or Israel says about it

Everybody knows that Israel is going to do whatever it wants to, including bombing whoever it wants to, they don't have to obey UN resolutions because we have a special relationship with them and unconditional support. It would be different if it was a country where we don't like their government, that is really what those resolutions are for, not for Israel. So Kofi saying he thinks it is a violation I think is just like a public relations thing. I mean what if he really did think so, what is he going to do about it?

And anyway, we have said that Israel has the right to defend itself, every time they have somebody from the government on they say that every five minutes, so if Israel wants to make it look like they are following the resolution even though everybody knows they don't have to, they can just say they were defending themselves. But we haven't told Lebanon that it is allowed to defend itself, so they don't get to say that.

I think this is one of the problems that people in other countries just have a different point of view about. They all think they have the right to defend themselves even if we don't think so. And if you read about it, the policy that nobody is ever allowed to defend themselves against us or Israel and if they do they are a terrorist is a BIG problem in other countries because people just don't agree with it. And some of them will even say, well OK then I am a terrorist but we have the right to defend ourselves against anybody, even America or Israel and also they don't believe that only we get to say which countries get to defend themselves in general in the first place.

It is stuff like that that makes me wonder about the war on terror and where it is going to end up.

[barb162]

4. "We will consider that route as well," Livni replied with a smile.

Of course, since she knows the UN couldn't have done a thing about it, Israel has to take care of the matter itself.