Pro-Israel DUers - Your party has not abandoned you

[DemFromMem]

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll391.xml

Resolution: Condemning the recent attacks against the State of Israel, holding terrorists and their state-sponsors accountable for such attacks, supporting Israel’s right to defend itself, and for other purposes.

Democrats:

Yaes - 186
Nays - 7


Republicans -

Yaes - 223
Nays - 1

Mainstream Democrats are united behind Israel. I'm going to enjoy watching the extremists around here trash all their favorite Representatives.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[umtalal]

6. I also reported you. Read post.

The amazing thing about this resolution supporting Israel is that, according to the Congressional website, 70% of Americans writing to their congressmen over the internet or calling their representatives by phone were opposed to supporting Israel and only 30% were in favor.

Also I was surprised to hear that 25% of US population list themselves as evangelical Christians who wholeheartedly support Israel. I think there are supposedly 3500 in DC that came just to show their support for Israel's collateral damage and murder of a nation. Add the power of votes.

So that shows you the power of money and lobbying organizations in our government as well as sheer group think.

Only 8 stood up to AIPAC. AIPAC controls pretty much everything in our government, any American Representatives working for American interests? Perish the thought!

Just go to www.Congress.org and you can see the resolution results on the main page

[acmejack]

8. That was anti Semitic?

How so?

[DemFromMem]

9. That you don't know is probably more disturbing

The Jews have bought and paid for the Congress? That is right up with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Show your post to 100 Jews and see if 98 of them don't call you an anti-Semite.

[dufrenne]

10. lol

I was just about to say that. The fact that people don't know why equating jews with some sort of nefarious control of our governemnt is wrong is itself the problem. Unbelievable. It's thoughts like this that snowball into 193O's Germany. It's always the jews...from the beginning of time. I don't know from where this hatred springs. It certainly didn't start in 1949.

[MrPrax]

49. Not to me...

I have no problem with the idea that any group of folks in a democracy can and do petition government on behalf of their particular causes. It is especially disturbing that you would play the Race Card when other groups, with very good justifications, oppose the goals of that group.

It's also particularly galling that someone would suspend their good judgement on virtually any other aspect of government and ignore the obvious that money, influence and power tends to attract MORE support in politics. You'd have no problem if someone posted this mundane observation that the GOP tends to court the Christian fundamentalism (even though there are many many other Christian groups) because they raise a lot of money for politicians of their choosing and go out and work for them in a big way during the various election cycles.

Why then do you have a problem with it if the group in question is an identifiable ethnic group? Do you want Jews to hide or something? There are FEW people that wouldn't SEE this type of influence in say the Cuban lobby vis a vis current US policy towards Cuba. But rarely are there Hispanics that accuse others of 'racism' if they oppose the Cuban exiles' community efforts to promote their political agenda.

You seem to confuse the two notions on a constant basis.

[Meshuga]

20. acmejack

I don't believe you are an anti-semite, I just think you are naive. This rationale has been used by numbers of anti-semites to promote fear and justify the massacre of millions of Jews. Hitler used it to forment hate against Jews in Nazi Germany and, more recently, Arab leaders have been using 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion' (a fictional book which is the root of this "great Jewish conspiracy" bullshit) for the same purpose, which is to say that the Jews control everything (and everybody) and that Jews have a plan to take over the world.

[Name removed]

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[nashville_brook]

11. how is that post anti-semitic?

[dufrenne]

13. it's funny

how people defend their attacks against Israel as being not anti-semetic because they're not attacking jews, but Israel as an entity. But, then when they talk about US poltics, its not the Israeli lobby, but the Jewish lobby. The "jewish lobby" has always been code for those sneaky jews in control of everything. That's why its the favorite term of Neo-nazis and general anti-semites.

[nashville_brook]

14. you didn't answer the question. how is the post anti-semitic.

[dufrenne]

16. re-read it and you'll

understand. Do any study into the history of jewish persecution and you'll understand. The accusations of jews in control of everything was one of Hitler's favorites...so you might have an idea of why they might be a teeny tiny bit SENSITIVE TO IT!!!

[nashville_brook]

31. for someone who doesn't know Jewish history .. explain

how THAT post referenced hating hebrews.

[umtalal]

34. That's Why

MANUEL VALENZUELA: The Untermensch Syndrome -- Israel’s Moral Decay
The labeling as anti-Semitic of anyone critical of the state of Israel’s policies in the continued destruction of Palestinian identity and the increasing domination into American foreign policy no longer has the sting of threat or intimidation it once mastered. For too long this masquerade has been used to silence those opposing anything Israel, shouted at anyone disseminating truth and seeking justice. Like the boy who cried wolf, this charade has lost its power or hypnotic control, and today only serves to breed more anger and resentment against the apologists and smear mongers protecting the cancerous tentacles of Zionism and the crimes against humanity it spawns.

A once powerful marketing tool used to sequester valid criticism and deny truth to millions has been eroded thanks to its overlords’ continued over-abuse and labeling of the term ‘anti-Semite’ to anyone even remotely critical of anything associated with Israel and the tentacles of Zionism.

http://worldnewstrust.org/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=3929

[nashville_brook]

39. doesn't this seem rather esoteric?

[Andromeda]

75. What crap!

the language in this piece is priceless! "....today only serves to breed more anger and resentment against the apologists and smear mongers protecting the cancerous tentacles of Zionism and the crimes against humanity it spawns."

The cancerous tentacles of Zionism? Crime against humanity?

The person who wrote this has completely lost touch with reality, IMO, because it is truly bizarre.

[liberalhistorian]

78. Not just one of Hitler's favorites; he merely

put a modern twist on a very ancient practice, starting with the "blood libel" and "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" bullshit. Jews have and control all the money, Jews control world governments, Jews steal Christian babies and use their blood in devil rituals, Jews control Hollywood, Jews were responsible for the rise of socialism and communism, culminating in the Russian Revolution, etc., etc., etc., blahblahblah, ad nauseaum.

Like it or not, however, lobbyist money DOES influence congressional actions.

That being said, I strongly disagree with Israel's current actions and very strongly disagree with the resolution and with my party's majority agreement with it. It should be the other way around. The resolution should be condemning the overwhelmingly aggressive overkill used against Lebanon, destroying the country and its civilian and economic infrastructure, killing and wounding hundreds of civilians, even as they attempted to flee in busses and even firing on Red Cross ambulances, creating a horrendous humanitarian crisis in hundreds of thousands of desperate, homeless refugees, etc., all over two captured soldiers. Yeah, yeah, I know, Lebanon and all of its civilians are really all just Hezbollah members. Yeah, right.

We will not be intimidated into keeping quiet about Israel's atrocities simply out of fear of being labeled "anti-semitic."

[jonnyblitz]

18. money from lobbyists doesn't affect how congresspeople vote !!

only an anti-semite would believe such nonsense!! :sarcasm:

yup , straight from the protocols. :crazy: :crazy: (speaking of major leaps)

seriously nashville-brooke its the usual attempt to shutdown debate.

[nashville_brook]

30. just flexing my elenchus

[JackNewtown]

59. Right, and don't forget the powerful pro-Palestinian lobby

The pro-Pal lobby also has millions of dollars and a staff of over a hundred people. Votes on I/P are 100% motivated by lofty reasons--except in every other country on the planet for some odd reason...

[liberalhistorian]

79. The Palestinian lobby is NOTHING

in terms of staff, resources, and clout, compared to AIPAC. It's like comparing a fly and a hammer.

[Name removed]

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[nashville_brook]

27. please explain how the post references this hidden narrative

[Name removed]

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[Lithos]

41. I am not going to answer that question

The post stated "jewish" lobby.

First, the correct usage is "Israeli" lobby which while it consists of many major Jewish American groups is NOT limited to the Jewish religion. This is why it was removed as this type of conflation while often naive has been one of the major forensic shifts used by many Western anti-Semitic groups to mask/mainstream their hate for Jews. Given that these same anti-Semitic groups are currently trying to mainstream the conspiratorial notions stated in the "Protocols" and other tracts, such semantic changes are extremely worrisome.

Second, it also is a preferred phrase used by the Arab media as a way to avoid recognizing the existence of an Israeli State. Given the past statements by the Arab Press, there is a suggestion such a notion would entail the equivalent of another Holocaust. But in addition, such a statement is again incorrect given the rather powerful Christian-Zionist influence which was crucial to the establishment of the Israeli state.

As such you can see why even this apparently slight difference is actually a major difference. Words mean a lot.

L-

[dufrenne]

5. of

course, jews control everything in this country. Jews pull everyone's strings...it's all mind control...oh wait...not mind control...it's jewish money from filthy jewish banks.....

if you didn't get the sarcasm, it's attitudes like yours that makes it perfectly understandable why Israel feels justified doing whatever it takes to protect itself. They've been the most abused people on this planet and it seems that it won't change anytime soon.

[catmother]

15. the jews do not control everything. it's the WASPs that have all

the money and control the banks.

when i lived in new york the jews controlled certain things like the garment center where i started my working career in 1958. so what's so terrible about that? it used to be the irish who controlled the police department and fire department.

as recent as the mid-80s there were still some law firms in new york who did not hire jews or italians.

jews educate themselves. they are very intelligent people. they work hard.

not every jew in america is a Zionist. american jews and israel jews are completely different people. the only thing they share is a religion.

on edit: oh shit, i just realized i was on the israel/palestine forum which i try to stay away from. too late now.

[DemFromMem]

26. Oh come on

The Israel/Palestine forum is where all the fun discussions are. :-)

[catmother]

36. i've had my share this week of being flamed, being called a

freeper and other things because of my pro-israel stance on GD. lol

[sinogirl]

54. A pro-Israeli stance earns you a freeper

Or you become a freeper..!

What's a freeper? An Anti-Anti-semite..? 'confused'

[madeline_con]

68. Oh, wow, you ARE new!

First of all, welcome to DU! :hi:

A "Freeper" is a bottom dweller who hangs around on the Free Republic website

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/browse

I call them "Freekers". They're usually really stupid right wingers who hate everybody.

The Free Republic it the arch enemy of DU.

Some members of both groups seem a bit obsessed with the other, if you know what I mean. :crazy:

[JackNewtown]

60. Right, and AIPAC doesn't even represent most US Jews

AIPAC is a neocon, Likudnik org.

[liberalhistorian]

80. Being the victim of abuse does NOT

in any way justify abusing others in the same way. Being a victim shouldn't give you a free pass to do the same to others.

[Meshuga]

12. This "Jews control everything" bullshit...

...is similar to the rationale that caused millions of Jews to be eventually hunted and murdered in the first half of last century. Jews were so powerful and had so much control over other governments that they could not escape pogroms and Nazi Germany. Oh brother!

[umtalal]

17. 70% of the public did not want the resolution, yet it passed.

Voting their conscious? My ass.

[Codeine]

29. 70% Of whom, the people that bothered to write in

or of the general public? Most Americans are very supportive of Israel.

[JackNewtown]

62. A plurality of Americans favor an IMMEDIATE cease-fire

Obviously, they weren't voting their concious in their 100-0, 410-8 votes in a one-sided resolution that was more extreme than even Bush's position on the conflict.

Most Americans--by a large margin--also favor Israel returning to the 1967 borders. Why doesn't that translate into American policy, which facilitates the continued occupation of Palestinian lands and the Golan Heights? Any guesses? ;)

If you took a public vote in Congress on requesting Israel to return to the 1967 borders the vote would probably be 90-8 against it in the Senate...

[dennis4868]

64. what the hell would a ....

cease-fire do? Heballah would simply start attacking Israel once again and commit terrorist acts. If someone terrorized your family would you simply say CEASEFIRE? hahaha...no way. Easy for people living in the comfort of their homes in America to call for a cease fire but I have family in Israel and I want Hezballah dead.

[Violet_Crumble]

67. Yr attitude is pretty disgusting...

Civilians aren't Hezbollah. That's really simple to understand. It's easy for people living in the comfort of their homes in America to urge for more killing and destruction in Lebanon, but maybe if you took a second to put yrself in the shoes of others you wouldn't find their lives so expendable...

[dennis4868]

71. Hezballah....

uses innocent civilians as human shields. That is why the government of isrel is leaving phone messages on the cvilians phones before the bombing begins letting them know to leave their home.

[liberalhistorian]

83. Is that why they're also bombing and shooting at

civilian busses, cars and even Red Cross ambulances, that the civilians are desperately trying to flee in? And what the fuck good does it do to tell them to escape when Israel is bombing the shit out of their entire country and THERE IS NO PLACE TO GO?

[liberalhistorian]

82. That may be, but they sure as hell

aren't supportive of the current actions, nor should they be. And one of the reasons they're so supportive is the horrendously biased MSM in this country.

[liberalhistorian]

81. I once had some no-brained idiot tell me that

the Holocaust happened in part because of the "arrogance of the Rothschild company", whatever in the fuck that's supposed to mean. I think claiming a group "controls" everything is one of the first steps in dehumanizing them so as to justify their scapegoating.

[Name removed]

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[umtalal]

25. I am staying home this november.

[Andromeda]

76. I'm happy to hear that.

[rockymountaindem]

3. That's good to know n.t

[Name removed]

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[Imajika]

21. I completely support Israel in this conflict...

I want to see Israel annhilate Hizbullah, even if that requires a ground invasion of Southern Lebanon.

As far as the civilian casualities on both sides go - it is very sad, but that is what happens in war. Period. That is why war is so horrific, yet sometimes unavoidable. Had Hizbullah not come across the border and killed and kidnapped Israeli soldiers, none of this would be happening. The fault for this conflict is ENTIRELY Hizbullah's.

I am very pleased to see overwhelming mainstream Democratic support of Israel as represented by this vote. Thankfully, on this issue, DU and other message forums represents only the fringe of Democratic opinion - the vast majority of Democrats do infact support Israel.

[Dutch]

57. Well said, I agree on all points. n/t

[Mz Pip]

73. Probably my first and

last post in the I/P forum and I will agree with you.

There seems to be a subtext running through many of the anti-Israeli posts that if Israel were just nicer none of this would be happening. Give up Gaza, give up this, back off that, disarm this, blah, blah blah. Like that will work.


IMHO the surrounding Arab countries have done little to promote peace in the region. WHy is this always about what Israel is supposed to do? Where is the responsibility of the other nations in the region to do something to promote peace? Lebanon was supposed to crack down on Hezbollah but didn't. THe anti- Isaeli crowd makes excuses for Lebanon.

Is Israel's response to this one crisis disproportionate? Maybe. But when dealing with enemies who for decades wish you wiped off the planet perhaps there is more at play than just this one incident.

This is tragic for the region. Our own lack of engagement for the past 5 years hasn't helped. But I will not blame Israel for defending itself.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[liberalhistorian]

84. Then send your own kids to fight

Israel's wars of aggression and leave my teenage son the hell out of it.

How you can think that destroying a country, creating almost a million refugees, etc., etc., will actually work in Israel's favor and destroy Hezbollah is beyond me. It will simply serve to stir up more hatred and anger and resistance against Israel.

[NaturalHigh]

23. I'm pleasantly surprised at the vote.

I figured there would be a lot more nays and a lot more anti-Israel rhetoric. Particularly surprising is that Mckinney didn't vote. Maybe her upcoming runoff has her a little gun-shy.

[JackNewtown]

63. McKinney probably learned her lesson in 2002 nt

[thinkingwoman]

24. Ahh sanity. nt

[umtalal]

28. I think you are supporting the case of Hizbollah with this stupid resoluti

on but who is counting how many sutpid resolutions this cognress passes?

Freedom fries any one?

[DemFromMem]

32. What's a sutpid resolution?

[umtalal]

33. Why are you playing dumb? Stop it please.

[DemFromMem]

35. I'm sorry, but because of my stupidity (that's what you said about me

and half the other people in this thread), I can't follow what you're saying. I'm too stupid.

[umtalal]

37. I told half the people, as opposed to all the people, as opposed to..LOL

A stupid resolution indeed, over and out.

Don't be sorry. Just grow up and hone your manipulative skills.

[burythehatchet]

42. Yes, its a matter of principle

2004 Top Ten Career Recipients of Pro-Israel PAC Funds
http://www.washington-report.org/archives/July_Aug_2004/0407027.html
Compiled by Hugh Galford


House: Current Cycle
Hoyer, Steny (D-MD) $37,500
Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana (R-FL) 36,000
Berkley, Shelley (D-NV) 35,100
Lantos, Tom (D-CA) 31,600
Frost, Martin (D-TX) 31,300
Cantor, Eric (R-VA) 23,750
Crowley, Joseph (D-NY) 23,000
DeLay, Tom (R-TX) 23,000
Lowey, Nita (D-NY) 20,650
Pelosi, Nancy (D-CA) 20,650



House: Career
Berkley, Shelley (D-NV) $201,455
Frost, Martin (D-TX) 165,414
Engel, Eliot (D-NY) 137,918
Levin, Sander (D-MI) 113,727
Lowey, Nita (D-NY) 109,738
Lantos, Tom (D-CA) 107,250
Hoyer, Steny (D-MD) 92,275
Evans, Lane (D-IL) 87,379
Harman, Jane (D-CA) 86,271
DeLay, Tom (R-TX) 81,050



Senate: Current Cycle
Specter, Arlen (R-PA) $80,350
Boxer, Barbara (D-CA) 73,000
Murray, Patty (D-WA) 72,495
Daschle, Tom (D-SD) 70,500
Reid, Harry (D-NV) 64,999
Bayh, Evan (D-IN) 56,500
Bennett, Robert (R-UT) 55,750
Wyden, Ronald (D-OR) 55,000
Brownback, Samuel (R-KS) 50,850
Shelby, Richard (R-AL) 38,500


Senate: Career
Daschle, Tom (D-SD) $533,635
Specter, Arlen (R-PA) 461,973
Lautenberg, Frank (D-NJ) 433,806
Durbin, Richard (D-IL) 326,671
Reid, Harry (D-NV) 318,801
Wyden, Ronald (D-OR) 255,562
Lieberman, Joseph (D-CT) 227,758
Boxer, Barbara (D-CA) 223,794
Dodd, Christopher (D-CT) 221,178
Conrad, Kent (D-ND) 201,939

[JackNewtown]

65. Those aren't the final figures for 2004. They are far higher!

Pro-Israel:
Money to Congress

Election cycle: 2004
List: Summary Top 20 Members All Senators All Members of the House All Senate Candidates All House Candidates Sort by Amount Sort by Name Sort by State

Candidate
Amount

Bush, George W (R)
$262,766

Daschle, Tom (D-SD)
$245,075

Specter, Arlen (R-PA)
$235,200

Lieberman, Joe (D-CT)
$231,050

Wyden, Ron (D-OR)
$162,950

Boxer, Barbara (D-CA)
$142,110

Murray, Patty (D-WA)
$130,745

Mikulski, Barbara A (D-MD)
$127,125

Lantos, Tom (D-CA)
$124,600

Deutsch, Peter (D-FL)
$119,400

Feingold, Russell D (D-WI)
$113,703

Brownback, Sam (R-KS)
$98,600

Berkley, Shelley (D-NV)
$98,044

Dodd, Chris (D-CT)
$97,150

Schumer, Charles E (D-NY)
$96,000

Bennett, Robert F (R-UT)
$95,750

Bayh, Evan (D-IN)
$95,250

Reid, Harry (D-NV)
$94,200

Frost, Martin (D-TX)
$92,654

Inouye, Daniel K (D-HI)
$91,200


http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.asp?Ind=Q05&recipdetail=M&sortorder=U&Cycle=2004

Pro-Israel:
Money to Congress

Election cycle: All Cycles 2006 2004 2002 2000 1998 1996 1994 1992 1990

List: Summary Top 20 Members All Senators All Members of the House All Senate Candidates All House Candidates Sort by Amount Sort by Name Sort by State

Candidate
Amount

Levin, Carl (D-MI)
$1,284,584

Specter, Arlen (R-PA)
$960,478

Lieberman, Joe (D-CT)
$863,888

Harkin, Tom (D-IA)
$738,805

Wyden, Ron (D-OR)
$733,776

McConnell, Mitch (R-KY)
$678,950

Daschle, Tom (D-SD)
$650,701

Boxer, Barbara (D-CA)
$571,221

Berkley, Shelley (D-NV)
$533,388

Schumer, Charles E (D-NY)
$520,550

Feinstein, Dianne (D-CA)
$498,542

Robb, Charles S (D-VA)
$479,627

Durbin, Dick (D-IL)
$470,772

Simon, Paul (D-IL)
$456,817

Levin, Sander (D-MI)
$447,233

D'Amato, Alfonse M (R-NY)
$431,037

Boschwitz, Rudy (R-MN)
$427,376

Baucus, Max (D-MT)
$425,039

Levine, Mel (D-CA)
$413,604

Inouye, Daniel K (D-HI)
$410,565

[TomClash]

43. The rank and file of the Democratic Party feel a bit differently

And here's a flash: without us - you don't have a party.

[DemFromMem]

45. Um, no they don't

The CNN poll from yesterday showed support for Israel over Hezbollah running at 14 to 1.

[TomClash]

47. Duh

That's because no one supports Hezbollah. Ask them if they support Israel's incursion into Lebanon. Ask rank and file Dems if they support the killing of hundreds of Lebanese civilians. Don't quote some biased online CNN poll.

[liberalhistorian]

85. Don't you know by now?

Any expression of criticism of Israel's actions equates to support for Hezbollah, Hamas and terrorists. Any expression of concern for the destruction of Lebanon, the murder and wounding of hundreds of Lebanese civilians, and the creation of nearly a million desperate refugees, is really support for Hezbollah, Hamas and terrorists. Sheesh, get with the program! :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Douglas Carpenter]

52. Does one support Saddam Hussein or Bush's war in Iraq?

It is possible to oppose both, isn't it?

[liberalhistorian]

86. That's because no one supports Hezbollah,

and you damn well know the question was badly worded.

And how can Americans know otherwise when the MSM is so blatantly biased that it's a national disgrace and embarrassment?

[Finder]

44. So, our government supports democracy over theocracy and terrorism.

IMO, that is the important message in the resolution.

[liberalhistorian]

87. What democracy? A nation that

acts the way Israel is right now is most certainly NOT a democracy. Democracies don't destroy entire countries, including the civilian and economic infrastructure, kill and wound hundreds, create nearly a million desperate refugees, bomb and shoot at civilians attempting to flee, etc., etc., and claim all the while that they're not hurting or targeting civilians. Democracies don't oppress part of their population, in this case Israeli Arabs, and hold such population under a different standard than the rest of the citizens. Your definition of "democracy" is obviously very different from the standard, accepted definition.

[Violet_Crumble]

46. Not being an extremist or a Democrat...

Is there some reason apart from an inability to cope with any criticism of Israel no matter what Israel does that you would call people extremists who actually do have a problem with Israel attacking civilian infrastructure and have a problem with the rising civilian death toll?

btw, didn't most of those mainstream Democrats also vote in support of the invasion of Iraq? I think there's a message in there somewhere...

[cali]

48. Actually, this is worse than

the vote for the war. In the House more than half the dem reps voted against the war, in the Senate, slightly less than half. The lopsidedness of this vote is really disconcerting. Even my rep and Senators joined in, and they are not knee jerk types. Nor do they receive much money from AIPAC. Personally, I think this 'muscular' support for Israel goes beyond the influence and the money of the Israel lobby, to something i can only term institutional memory.

[Violet_Crumble]

51. Institutional memory...

I'm not sure if it's what yr referring to as institutional memory, but to me it appears that much of this unbending, unquestioning 'support' for Israel comes from guilt because of the pretty shabby attitude of the US govt during WWII towards European Jewry. Not that I think that this alone explains the almost total 'support' of Israel by US politicians. Other countries have more to feel guilty about in that regard but their responses to what is happening now aren't unbalanced, and the US virtually stands alone in the international community, the rest of who are calling for a cease-fire rather than producing resolutions which are basically praising Israel for what it's doing....

[liberalhistorian]

88. Guilt at US inaction and indifference

toward the plight of European Jews in the 30's and 40's (especially since it's now known that many in the State Dept. actually knew of what was happening to Jews unlucky enough to be in Europe during WWII-I hope there's a special spot in hell for those officials) may very well have something to do with it, but I don't think that's the main reason. And you're right, as bad as we were, other countries have even more to answer for in that regard.

[barb162]

50. Good job, US House of Representatives! Thanks for posting

[TomClash]

53. It's a Party!

Hey, USA, you bring the bunker-busting bombs. Israel - you bring the tanks, guns, planes and disposable citizens. Lebanese Shiites - you bring the bodybags to fill with your citizens. Everybody else - kick back and watch the fun!!

Yeah, coffins and rotting human flesh are so much goddamn fun.

[jonnyblitz]

55. there is more to the party than the elected officials.

the rank and file DO NOT support involvement.

[ShortnFiery]

58. I second that IMO - TRUISM!

The sheer MASS of Israel's military killing machine: Land, Sea and Air - has been unleashed upon MOSTLY innocent Lebanese civilians. Their goal is unattainable because Hezbollah does have legitimacy within the Lebanese government (23 seats).

Does Israel realize that they are now the #1 recruiters for hundreds of future Hezbollah converts toward militancy?

I don't use the word "terrorism" because we all are terrorists: USA military, Israel's military, Hamas and Hezbollah - Not one of these can claim the moral high ground.

If there is not a cease fire a.s.a.p., then I must ask,

Mighty Mighty Israeli Military Killing Machine, Have you no shame? :cry:

[Dutch]

56. Good to know! n/t

[dennis4868]

61. How can a person.....

not support a country defending themselves from a terrorist group.

[Violet_Crumble]

66. Since when have Lebanese civilians been a terrorist group?

I would suggest both yr choice of wording and that of many US politicians is pretty damn stupid and it's carrying disturbing echoes of Bush-speak in there...

[dennis4868]

70. Unfortunately....

the terrorist use innocent people as their shield. That is why Israel is actually leaving phone messesages on Lebanese civilians phones letting them know to get out of danger. What the hell else is Israel suppose to do.

[liberalhistorian]

89. How about not bombing their country

back to the stone age, and how about not bombing and shooting at civilians attempting to flee, just like they're being told to do? I suppose the shooting of busses, cars and even Red Cross ambulances is just making sure they're getting all them there terra-ists.

[bennywhale]

69. America and Britain are the only 2 countries

on earth now who are supporting the Israeli action, and even now the UK foreign minister for the ME has called Israeli actions illogical, non-targeted and counterproductive when he visited the region, he also said that "if you are going for Hezbollah, then go for Hezbollah, don't go for the entire Lebanese people.

Israel is out of control, and are unleashing their vengeance on the entire Lebanese populus. What do you think this is doing to the opinions and thoughts of the Muslim and Arab world??? The blatant hypocrisy, the sanctity of Israeli life versus the desppensable, cheap arab life. A 1/3 of the dead are children.

Hundreds have been killed all with dozens of family members and the whole south of the country is being destroyed. If Israel say they are looking to the long term then this rate of murder will be doing nothing but seeding the next generation of Hezbollah and the next generation of other terrorists from around the Muslim world watching this blatant killing and destruction.

[Peeves]

77. Go Israel ...

:evilgrin:

[Poppyseedman]

72. Gutless wonders - Voted present

Kaptur
Kucinich
Lee
Waters

[4freethinking]

74. Yes that says a lot

Kucinich talks a lot about peace but does nothing in terms of a vote. People tend to forget people like Kucinich work inside the system and are part of the system and will not go outside of it in order to support what comes out of their mouth by way of a vote.

[liberalhistorian]

90. I'm truly amazed and thoroughly disgusted

that Kucinich, of all people, would vote in favor of this. I really expected better of him.

[Lithos]

91. Locking

I think it's time to lock this.

Lithos
DU Moderator