Roger Waters Tears Down a New Wall.

[reprehensor]

Well, at least he tags it.

But if anyone could bring that wall down, it's him.

"I've seen pictures of it, I've heard a lot about it but without being here you can't imagine how extraordinarily oppressive it is and how sad it is to see these people coming through these little holes," he added. "It's craziness."

- Roger Waters



The impact that the music of both Roger Waters and Pink Floyd have made on my life is immeasurable. It's truly great seeing him stick it to the latest "Wall".




Waters writes on West Bank wall
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5104930.stm

"We don't need no occupation. We don't need no racist wall." ..."

[Tom Joad]

1. That wall will destroy communities. It is paid for by US taxpayers.

tens of thousands will not be able to access their farmland, their jobs. Palestinians will be isolated from other Palstinian communities. Some Palestinians are even walled onto the "Israeli" side of the barrier, with no status in Israel and very difficult access to the West Bank. (sort of makes the stated claim that the wall is for "security" when you put your perceived enemies on the wrong side of it)

We must do all we can to Tear Down That Wall.

www.stopthewall.org

[Jim Sagle]

2. The PA and Hamas should have stopped sending suicide bombers

into Israel. Then there wouldn't need to be a barrier.

Waters places Palestinian freedom of movement above Israeli lives. He's the new Leni Riefenstahl.

[reprehensor]

4. "What shall we use..."

"To fill the empty spaces
Where we used to talk?
How shall I fill
The final places?
How should I complete the wall..."

[YOY]

20. What Shall We Do Now?

What shall we use to fill the empty spaces
Where waves of hunger roar?
Shall we set out across the sea of faces
In search of more and more applause?
Shall we buy a new guitar?
Shall we drive a more powerful car?
Shall we work straight through the night?
Shall we get into fights?
Leave the lights on?
Drop bombs?
Do tours of the east?
contract diseases?
Bury bones?
Break up homes?
Send flowers by phone?
Take to drink?
Go to shrinks?
Give up meat?
Rarely sleep?
Keep people as pets?
Train dogs?
Race rats?
Fill the attic with cash?
Bury treasure?
Store up leisure?
But never relax at all
With our backs to the wall.

[countmyvote4real]

5. There's a lot of shoulda , coulda, woulda on both sides to go around. n/t

[walldude]

7. LMAO.. yeah right. Waters is the most humanitarian man in

music today. Has been for the last 30 years. Your generalization of innocent little Israel and the evil Palestinians reeks of neo-con bullshit. Exactly what is it you think gives the US the right to interfere in a land war that has been going on for thousands of years? Using your logic we should start building walls around certain red states where people like McVeigh are breeding, after all, we are placing militant white supremest freedom of movement over American lives.

Oh and about Waters, while the rest of the music industry bowed to Poppy and his little war like sniviling little cowards, afraid to be accused of "not supporting the troops" Waters stood up and fired a shot across the bow of the S.S. Bush, too bad it was ignored by all but the faithful. Waters was and is the man, a humanitarian who isn't afraid of his beliefs and convictions.

[Amonester]

18. Roger wrote a song about the Freeper 'types' (and chickenhawk...

warmongers): (From 'Amused To Death' Solo Work)
(Iraq war 1)

Note: /big sarcasm icon here... (disgust "them")

The Bravery Of Being Out Of Range
You have a natural tendency
To squeeze off a shot
You're good fun at parties
You wear the right masks
You're old but you still
Like a laugh in the locker room
You can't abide change
And you're home on the range
You opened the suitcase
Behind the old workings
To show off the magnum
You deafened the canyon
A comfort a friend
Only upstaged in the end
By the Uzi machine gun

Does the recoil remind you
Remind you of sex
Old man what the hell you gonna kill next
Old timer, who you gonna kill next

I looked over Jordan and what did I see
Saw a U.S. Marine in a pile of debris
I swam in your pools
And lay under your palm trees
I looked in the eyes of the Indian
Who lay on the Federal Building steps
And through the range finder over the hill
I saw the front line boys popping their pills
Sick of the mess they find on their desert stage

And the bravery of being out of range
Yeah the question is vexed
Old man what the hell you gonna kill next
Old timer who you gonna kill next

Hey bartender, over here
Two more shots
And two more beers
Sir, turn up the TV sound
The war has started on the ground
Just love those laser guided bombs
They're really great for righting wrongs
You hit the target, win the game

From bars 3,000 miles away
3,000 miles away
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range
We zap and maim
With the bravery of being out of range
We strafe the train
With the bravery of being out of range
We gain terrain
With the bravery of being out of range
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range


Yup! Which One Is Pink? ;)

[Nostradammit]

8. Yeah, Waters is a right fascist...

:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:


The new Riefenstahl? You sure about that?

You certain that your position on the subject might not be just a little too rigid?

[Tom Joad]

14. Jim's post says much about Jim's perspective and insight, or lack thereof

and nothing about Waters.

[Canuckistanian]

9. Leni Riefenstahl would have been proud of you

Those Palestinian "freedoms of movement" of which you speak so dismissively, are the natural yearnings of every human being.

The propaganda of either side are to be taken with a rather large boulder of salt.

[Jim Sagle]

10. As a militant antisemite, Leni Riefenstahl would've had me butchered.

[Canuckistanian]

11. Read up on Riefenstahl

She was no rabid idealogue - just a master of a propagandistic medium.

Here, I'll get you started:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leni_Riefenstahl

[Elidor]

12. You cheapen the legacy of the Holocaust with your absurd comparison

Standing up for human rights is about as far removed from celebrating the triumphs of the oppressors as one can possibly get. I'd ask if you had any shame, but I suspect I already know the answer.

[Tom Joad]

13. The response is to destroy Palestine? Only seems like more terror.

And you accuse Waters of being a Nazi simply because he disagrees with controversial Israeli policy?
A new low, even for you.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. 'Kay. In your mind, what, then, IS it acceptable for Israel to do?

They can't occupy the territories. They can't build a wall to keep suicide bombers out (which is not the same thing as "destroying" "Palestine", BTW).

...

Okay, so, what's your plan?

[Tom Joad]

19. Follow international law. Such a concept!

That means:
Total withdrawal of all settlements. Not mere relocation of settlers to other settlements. Settlements are a direct violation of international law.

Complete withdrawal of all military from Palestinian land. Jewish people who wish to stay in the West Bank must live in a land where they have no special privileges, but their human rights should be respected.
Release of Palestinian hostages-prisoners.
Beginning reparations for decades of home demolitions, the bulldozing of farmland.
Right of return of refugees and their families who were forced out in 1948 & 1967 and in the last 60 years.

Building the wall in Palestinian land *is* the same thing as destroying Palestine. Anyone who looks at a map of where the wall goes sees that it will separate communities from their own land. why was it not built along the green line, inside isreal, instead of deep inside the West Bank in many places. Why does it surround some Palestinian communities on three sides, leaving only one outlet, controlled by the Israeli military?

Mas'Ha is a village on the line of the new so-called 'security wall', where a peace camp has been set up at the request of the local people, mostly farmers who are faced with the confiscation of ninety-eight per cent of their land. If that's not destruction, what the hell is?? And yet the people of this village are acting nonviolently to stop this atrocity.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=3582

No help from people here who complain only of Palestinian violent resistance, yet put no effort into supporting justice for both peoples.

[Scurrilous]

17. 9 July 2006: Two Years after the ICJ's Decision on the Separation Barrier

<snip>

"Two years ago today <9 July 2004>, the International Court of Justice, in The Hague , gave its advisory opinion on the Separation Barrier. The judges held that building the barrier in the West Bank violates international law. Thus, the court held, Israel must tear down the sections that stray from the Green Line, cancel the accompanying permit regime, and compensate Palestinians whose rights were violated by the barrier. The court also urged the UN General Assembly and the Security Council to consider actions to end the illegal situation created following construction of the barrier in the West Bank .

Despite the court's opinion, Israel has continued to build the barrier inside the West Bank . The planned length of the barrier is, at the present time, 700 kilometers: fifty-one percent has been completed, thirteen percent is under construction, and construction has not begun on thirty-six percent.

Some eighty percent of the planned route lies inside the West Bank , with the remaining twenty percent running along the Green Line. Upon completion of the barrier, 8.5 percent of the West Bank (including East Jerusalem ) will be situated in the "seam zone," the area between the barrier and the Green Line. This area contains sixty settlements (including twelve in East Jerusalem), in which some 381,000 Israelis live (192,000 in East Jerusalem ).

The ICJ held that, despite Israel 's contention that security considerations alone were taken into account in setting the route, there is a suspicion that the barrier will establish "completed facts" that will lead to Israel 's de facto annexation of the seam zone, in violation of the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination. According to B'Tselem's joint research with Bimkom, the main consideration in setting the route along twelve sections of the barrier was the desire to place west of the barrier lands that are intended for settlement expansion. In one of the cases, the Israeli Iigh Court has confirmed that the central consideration in setting the route was the existence of an unapproved settlement expansion plan, and that the information provided by the state in the matter was false."

http://www.btselem.org/english/separation_barrier/20060709_Hague_2nd_anniversary.asp

[reprehensor]

3. "When we grew up and went to school..."

"There were certain teachers who would
Hurt the children in any way they could."

[Warren DeMontague]

16. I'm a big Pink Floyd fan- really, nobody's bigger.

but I think this wall is an attempt to find a solution by a people who have found -repeatedly- that they have no bargaining partner for peace. The Israelis offered a pretty damn good deal for Palestinian Statehood in 2000 (whether or not one agrees with that assesment, most of the folks on both sides who have been working seriously at this acknowledge that any realistic end solution will probably look much like that deal), and Yasser Arafat spit in their face. He chose continued fighting instead of working towards resolution. That's the reality.

I'm not really sure what the Israelis are supposed to do in this situation ("Just Go Away" not being an acceptable option, sorry), except maybe allow suicide bombers to continue to come in and blow themselves up, taking families with 'em. Yes, there have been missteps on both sides, but the reality is, if the Palestinians had stepped up to the plate and gotten their acts together they could have had a state a long time ago. What they needed to do was accept living side by side with Israel, and they (or their leaders) have been for the most part unwilling to do that.

Take a look at Gaza. Israel pulls out and the geniuses in Hamas figure the first thing they should get on is firing rockets into southern Israel. Sure, there's that sleeping rotweiller next door- lets poke it with the stick, shall we?

It's a wall- and it sucks, but a wall doesn't march into a falafel stand and detonate itself sending nails and shrapnel into small children.

I don't feel like getting deep into it, believe me I've heard all the arguments. And I give this thread about 10 minutes before getting moved into the I/P ghetto, anyway. But although I wouldn't impugn his motives, I don't really think Roger Waters grasps the larger situation, here.

[Cetacea]

6. K+R, Thanks for the photos

Roger always had what he referred to as the "Lennon Instinct."

[Voltaire99]

21. Bravo for Waters.

Tear down that wall.

[Lithos]

22. Locking per I/P guidelines

Do not embed graphics or photographs of any kind into your messages. Maps or statistical graphs are okay.

-- See I/P Guidelines Here --

Lithos
DU Moderator