Do the Palestinians really want a state?

[Behind the Aegis]

By Bradley Burston

Monday, 20 March (8 days to Election Day)



Do the Palestinians really want a state?

At first blush, the question seems preposterous. The Palestinian people have voiced their acute desire for an independent state since the day, whatever it may have been, that they became the Palestinian people.

In fact, until recently it seemed that nearly the whole world, Eastern and Western Europe, the entirety of Asia and Africa, many of the nations of the Americas - everyone, that is, except for the United States and Israel - wanted there to be an independent Palestine.

In time, even Israel and Washington came around. In a surreal turn, Ariel Sharon, the mantra of whose ashram had long been "Jordan is Palestine," announced his support in 2003 for the U.S.-sponsored road map peace plan, which provided for, though would fail to deliver, an independent Palestinian state by 2005.

But even as Sharon rammed the road map through the cabinet, the cause of Palestinian statehood was being undermined - by the Palestinians themselves.

Of course, the sandbagging of statehood came second nature to Israeli governments. Predictably, though, the Israelis' efforts, often as not, were hamhanded enough to actually work in favor of statehood.

more...

[Stockholm]

1. Does anyone really want peace?

...

The three large parties' platforms - Kadima, Labor and the Likud, seemingly center, left and right - are completely united in their agreement about keeping the large settlements in Israel's hands. Even the Geneva plan, which is seen as "radical," leaves Ma'aleh Adumim inside Israel.

Suddenly, we have woken to a new consensus. It is not clear how this right-wing consensus was established. Once there was a consensus over Jerusalem - now it has spread to half the West Bank - yet it's called "a move to the left."

Israelis have in fact moved to a position of "give peace no chance" - saying no to a just agreement, no to a Palestinian state. Since when has the size of the settlements determined their moral and legal standing? Whoever votes for one of the large parties must know he is casting his ballot for annexation.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=Gideon+Levy&itemNo=695937

[pelsar]

2. GAZA.....

the present palestenain society where the palestenians control their own (except for the damn occupation electricty that israel supplies).....is characteristic of chaos, insecurity and attacks across the border into israel.....hardly a society that can live peacefully with israel, no matter what the borders are

[Violet_Crumble]

4. And isn't it so great that we can blame them for everything?

I mean, that issue of Israel withholding Palestinian revenue with the intention of collapsing the govt? No worries! Let's just bluster on about how it's all the Palestinians fault and Israel isn't doing anything to add to any chaos...

Violet...

[Scurrilous]

6. Let's not forget -

US holds secret talks to weaken Hamas

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x116635

[pelsar]

8. we blame the palestenains....

for the character of their society.....no more and no less. gunmen in the street, kidnappings, rocket attacks on israel...its is they who are responsable... for the actions of their own

excuses are just that...excuseses.

israel was born with boycotts/attacks and no "trading partner", no "donars".....perhaps the different attitude is what its all about?

[barb162]

10. That tax revenue is just a fraction of what they need per month

That alone won't collapse their government

[Burried News]

3. Diversions while settlements expand. Mission Accomplished.

[pelsar]

9. oh so the palestenians are "zionists"

i get it....the palestenian chaos is a "look over there" while the settlements expand....wow...those sneaky zionists really pulled a fast one, getting hamas elected, palestenain gunman in the streets, kidnappings...theyre good , you gotta admit

[bemildred]

5. This boggles the mind.

"But even as Sharon rammed the road map through the cabinet"

Sharon pee'd all over the road map every chance he got.
You could say he rammed the Gaza pullout through the cabinet, to be fair.

[Englander]

7. From the comments section;

No. 23;

'Title: The Palestinians are Rejectionists.
Name: Ann Coulter
City: New Caanan State: Connecticut

The Palestinians are a community of suicide bombers: They want the destruction of Israel more than they want a better life.'

[barb162]

11. Many other comments were interesting

for example:
Title: Palestine, the Addict Nation

Name: David Turner

City: Richmond State: VA


Camp David will turn out to have been the maximalist outcome for Palestinian statehood. Arafat apparently could not quite bring himself to accept a Palestine alongside a permanent and recognized Israel. But this was only one in a long list of Palestinian failures to compromise maximalist ideology for concrete political gain. In 1967 Moshe Dayan "waited by the phone" for a positive Palestinian response, eventually giving up. Which resulted in the new defensive Allon Line, a defensive wall protecting Israel in the Jordan Valley. Settlements as defense, and as prods to negotiate soon followed. Today?s separation fence is the new Allon Line. Squandering opportunity for principle Palestinian leaders have turned their people into a nation of self-inflicted misery and debasement. To borrow an apt description by Abba Eban made years ago, Palestinian leaders never miss an opportunity to inflect pain on their people, the addict choice to self-destruct. Hamas perpetuates the pain.

[Englander]

12. So, you agree with 'Ann Coulter'? n/t

[Englander]

13. ~~

[Matilda]

14. Camp David did not provide for removal of the West Bank settlements.

Settlements, roads, aquifers and military bases in the West Bank were to remain in Israeli hands,
thereby making a contiguous Palestinian state an impossibility. Israel would retain 9% of the
West Bank, giving the Palestinians in returns 1% of current Israeli territory "somewhere of Israel's
choosing".

If that was the best offer, Arafat can hardly be blamed for turning it down.

[Andromeda]

16. Puleeeze....

Any words from the mouth of "Ann the Man" Coulter has no credibility whatsoever.

[Englander]

17. Really? 'Her' sentiments sounded very familar.

I'm sure I've seen very similar sentiments expressed down here, before.
I thought it would be interesting to hear them straight from the horses's
mouth, as it were.

:)

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Matilda]

18. Evidence?

Are these facts or just wild assertions?