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Israel's colonisation of Palestine blocking peace, says Jimmy Carter

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-18-06 07:57 PM
Original message
Israel's colonisation of Palestine blocking peace, says Jimmy Carter
Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
Saturday March 18, 2006
The Guardian


The former US president Jimmy Carter has described Israel's "colonisation of Palestine" through expanding Jewish settlements as the single greatest obstacle to a resolution of the conflict.
Mr Carter, 81, who negotiated the 1978 Camp David peace accord between Israel and Egypt, wrote in the Tel Aviv newspaper Haaretz yesterday that Israel's actions doom any Palestinian state to a "dismal" future and will perpetuate violence across the Middle East. "The pre-eminent obstacle to peace is Israel's colonisation of Palestine," he wrote. "Israel's occupation of Palestine has obstructed a comprehensive peace agreement in the Holy Land, regardless of whether Palestinians had no formalised government, one headed by Yasser Arafat or Mahmoud Abbas, or with Abbas as president and Hamas controlling the parliament and cabinet."

Mr Carter also questioned Israel's commitment to the US-led "road map" peace process. "Israel has officially rejected its basic premises with patently unacceptable caveats and prerequisites," he said.

He said Israel was insincere at peace negotiations during the 1990s when it offered to withdraw only a small proportion of the 225,000 settlers living in the West Bank. "Their best official offer to the Palestinians was to withdraw 20% of them, leaving 180,000 in 209 settlements, covering about 5% of the occupied land," he said.

"The 5% figure is grossly misleading, with surrounding areas taken or earmarked for expansion, roadways joining settlements with each other and to Jerusalem, and wide arterial swaths providing water, sewage, electricity and communications. This intricate honeycomb divides the entire West Bank into multiple fragments, often uninhabitable or even unreachable."

This week the acting Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said that if he wins this month's general election, as expected, he will annex the main settlement blocks that are home to about 80% of settlers.|

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1733742,00.html
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tatertop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-18-06 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Jimmy Carter tells it like it is
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-18-06 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Jimmy Carter will go down in history
as one of the greatest humanitarians,ever.

He walks like he talks and puts a lot of action behind his words.
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heirs_of_liberty Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. While President Carter raises a significant old point...
Edited on Sun Mar-19-06 09:22 AM by heirs_of_liberty
in that report, I'm sure that he too recognizes the fact that we are chasing our tails with both sides in this interminable and intransigent confrontation. The real issue with these people (both sides) is that it's living together with each other that seems to be the main and only problem, not who's side of the sand dune is who's.

While Israel has taken some commendable steps, far too late in this guys opinion toward toning down the overt religious fascism and actually becoming a land of liberty, where liberal democracy and freedom is becoming a bit more possible, the Palestinians, thanks to George Bush and his Iraq occupation have retreated back entirely the other way, "voting" in a new established religious fascist party of their own (Hamas) and pretending that that conservative (Israeli-like) sort of established religious tyranny is also some kind of 'democracy'!

While Israel is a wonderful country and a homeland for people of the Jewish faith, what ever gave them the idea that they could treat others as second class citizens there? Isn't that what happened in Germany? On the same note, Palestinians who refuse to see their neighbors in Israeli's will end up having none.

Free countries have freedom of religion, and freedom from religion, for a very specific reason: in order protect minority rights of all people to be free! So sadly, until we can get the heads of these moron's (and many savage Christian Americans as well, sadly) around to understanding the basic concept of Liberty, there can be no negotiations, no accommodations, no peaceful governments and no pacification!

"As the union between spiritual freedom and political liberty seems nearly inseparable, it is our duty to defend both. And defence in the FIRST INSTANCE is best." Thomas Paine, Thoughts on Defensive War - 1775

"Today Christians rule Germany! I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess..." - *The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939,
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. This is not a religious conflict, but it is more a conflict of colonizers
and those whose land & homes are being taken by the colonizers.

Until the US ends support for this colonial project, then there is no hope of peace.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. ignorence is no excuse......
religion is very much a part of this conflict.....as is the culture that is part of it...to ignore such a basic fact, is absurd.....and it shows how little one understands of the motives of those involved.....for those who think its not a religious/sociological/cultural conflict
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heirs_of_liberty Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. if it were, there would be like French and English colonizers
In this case there is only one group of 'colonizers'. Everybody there got along fine until one group who had long ago abandoned it sought to re-establish an ancient alien statehood of religious-socialist intention, contrary to the will of the existing populance.

I have no quarrel with the State of Israel as such, the stolen lands of British Fascist occupied Palestine were pretty much a sad and empty wasteland before the European Jews were forced to go there by the plotting Anglican Crusader Fascists, who lied about and concealed a perfectly good home they could have all gone to in Tanganyika.

The fact that Britain's Imperial Fascist Tyrant-Procurator (Grand Mufti) of that petty sheikdom happened to be a semitic old greasy oil-buddy of Hitlers is strange indeed, for how could semitic guys be good enough to be allies, yet branded for death as "inferior races" because of their religious-socialist beliefs in Germany? The answer is simple, they shared a common religious fascist hatred of the Jewish religion itself, having nothing to do with their racial brotherhood.

Surely the British Anglican Fascist Tories knew perfectly aware of the implications of this intrusion into Arab affairs by establishing a religiously centered Jewish State near and upon one of Islamic Fascism's holiest sites would have catastrophic repercussions, as they had already overthrown the Arab world's first democratic government in Iran and stolen Kuwait from Iraq as "Iran Oil Insurance" installing Imperial Procurators for their British Petroleum monopoly at the criminal mafia controls of both those puppet states. The reason why they went ahead with it was as close as the Book of Revelation in their little Red hip pocket King James hate-dogma books. They (and a lot of bravely nihilistic Jews themselves) wanted them put out of sight in the most insecure place, where world affairs were certain to boil over, so they could blame this second new holocaust on Muslims.

Marxist Fascist Soviet Russia likewise sought to place the Christian Fascist West in a vice by strongly supporting the creation of Israel just for the fun of watching our hateful superstitious religious socialist fascisms self destruct.

The so-called 'noble' racist-eugenic tribal mafia warlord families of Europe had for years advanced and promoted eager, intelligent, well cultured and enterprising Jews to be the front men as wealthy merchant-class scapegoats for the vile Christianist persecutions, criminal corruption, murders, extortion and outright robbery of their usurious, disgusting, obscenely wasteful, selfish, hateful and criminal monopolistic religious-monarchist tyrannies over the lowly unwashed eugenically inferior 'commoner subjects'. As the hateful Imperial Russian 'protocols of Zion' pack of lies proved, Christian fascist deniers who survived WW II in Europe went unpunished and carried on belief in the ridiculous notion that the Jews had been the cause of that bloody pissing match between the greedy, criminal, bloodthirsty Imperial Eugenic Fascist tyrannies of Old Europe.

There could be a United States of Sumeria including all these petty little middle eastern fiefdoms if the childish, immature, stupid morons who live there would finally embrace the concept of Liberty and cast off a measure of the chains of their hateful religious socialist dogmatic purgatories.

Once one understands that God IS Love, Liberty becomes the only fair, decent and natural path to mankind's peace, salvation and redemption!

Note to neo-Nazi conservative George Bush: ...it's all about Liberty - stupid!
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. When you say .....
Edited on Sun Mar-19-06 03:17 PM by meti57b
".... Israel is a wonderful country and a homeland for people of the Jewish faith", you are trivializing the importance of Israel to Jews.

As Jews, we share common customs, origins, ethnicity, history, language, religion (and we take in new members). That makes us a nationality or a tribe. Israel is more than a homeland for people of Jewish faith. Throughout history when we were murdered or exiled from countries we were born in, because we are or were Jews, ... converting to the prevailing faith of the country would not usually save us. Being Jewish is more than a faith.

When you say, " .... what ever gave them the idea that they could treat others as second class citizens there? Isn't that what happened in Germany?" ... you are making a false assumption.

Israeli Jews most certainly do not treat Israeli Arabs or Palestinians in the manner that Jews were treated in Germany.
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heirs_of_liberty Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Eloquent defence, and valid to a certain degree.
Edited on Sun Mar-19-06 09:44 PM by heirs_of_liberty
but while carrying on that line of reasoning, might one wonder aloud why it was that the "Wiemar Republic" who's principle flaw was in not having outlawed the establishment of religion gave rise to the likes of the Christian Coalitionists that formed the basis of support behind the Nazi Party?

When we look at secular governments of Liberty we see very little of this established hatred, religious persecution and intolerance, and people of all religions can live in near-perfect peace and harmony precisely because no single religion(even Marxism) can ever become established in the manner of a fascist totalitarian tyranny. This is the great blessing of "Liberal Democracy" or "Republican Liberty" as our forefathers called it. Funny thing is it is not quite as republican, nor as anarchically democratic as it sounds!

We have anointed a Paper Monarch called our Constitution which stipulates the terms of our human and social freedoms and outlaws the specific sorts of repressive fascist things that (supposedly) cannot be established, represented or legislated into law by mere populist democracy. Our courts and supposedly; in the case of GW Bush, our President are charged with the duty of speaking for and enforcing our Constitutions orders of Liberty.

Thus it is, that by defending Liberty above all else that we protect ourselves and all our neighbors and all of our respective non-established religions, and in no other way!

Unfortunately for America. it was due to the criminal, hateful dogmatic biblical socialist doctrinal justifications for slavery that Nazi-Christianist "Whig" Neo-Conservative Fascism refused to die off properly as it should have, leaving only room for Liberal Socialists (federalists) and Liberal Privatists (parochialists) to properly occupy the newly redefined political main stages of constitutionally regulated Liberal Democracy that they had fought to establish!
“The greatest enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.” John F. Kennedy.

Yet Anglican Fascist Great Britain and Catholic Fascist Italy where two 'conservative' Christian societies (socialist nations), who together with the so-called "Christian" noble conservative-privatist support of notable Americans like William Randolph Hearst, the Carnegie Institution, the Rockefeller Foundation the Harriman's and even Henry Ford did everything they could to feed, promote and assist the Christianist eugenics movement and support the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute and Hitlers new hate-regime. Mussolini's dear summer holiday fellow-fascist Churchill even opined that Benito Mussolini was "the greatest lawgiver on earth"! (Read: The Great Hatred )

In fact for most of the Christian Nazi's Hitler's "Final Solution" was seen to be merely a "Stop Gap Solution" as they believe fervently, and since the end of WW II the secret Gehlen-MI6-CIA military industrial Christian mafia dictatorship have been actively engineering a colossal global thermonuclear battle at Armageddon (Megiddo) in the Sinai desert to complete the job Hitler couldn't.

To this end, in the 1960's Britain's Anglicanist MI6 crusader mafia supplied heavy water and weapons grade plutonium to ensure that the tiny impoverished struggling nation was well stocked with a strategic arsenal that would "have to be" targeted by other nuclear powers to protect the Arab oil fields, and with the looming demise of it's treasured and lucrative "Soviet Menace" in the late 1970's the Britain's Gehlen/Bush Christianist CIA Mafia nuclear-armed Pakistan and trained and nurtured the Mujihadeen and Osama bin Laden. (Read: Is the US an ally of Israel?)

Indeed, as you say Jewishness is much more than a mere religion, for indeed it is a distinctive ethnicity with it's own language(s), culture and customs, but racially, a true Jew is as Semitic as his Arab neighbors. Yet indeed, you'd have to agree that most of the colonists in Israel are merely Europeans exploiting their religious baggage. As far as the Zionist movement is concerned the Harvard Israel Review has an excellent article on Reviving Religious Zionism which pretty much sums up what most Jews see as the needs for Religious Statehood, which are either based upon Rabbi Kook's traditional messianic quest, which does not justify political religious socialism as Professor Leibowitz eloquently criticized it. Now Rabbi Hartmann takes Leibowitz's allowance that the "creation of Israel, could have religious impact by providing opportunities for furthering Jewish practice." and tries to run with the "Positive Zionism" angle but still that does not explain the need to impose totalitarian Judaism upon the residents, immigrants and citizenry.

Finally, Rabbi Joseph Dov Soloveitchik's Halakhic Option tries to justify fascism on the basis of "...the Bible commands Jews to defend one another. The lesson of the Holocaust, as Fackenheim notes, is that such defense is impossible without a nation-state and sovereignty." then turns around and ignores Liberty and breaks his own "famed six-hundred-and-fourteenth commandment, which emanated from the commanding Voice of Auschwitz, forbidding the post-Holocaust Jew to give Hitler posthumous victories" by basing the need for Zionist fascism on the faults of fascism in the first place!

Surely Israel has a right to protect it's majority cultural need for it's distinctive identity but that can be accomplished without any need to marginalize or segregate citizens of other faiths, and can be done in a secular Liberal Democratic fashion which does recognize institutionalized mores of a predominant Jewish culture and identity. Surely a reasonable quota system could also be adopted for immigration and resettlement of refugees too! It is the example that is being set for Palestinians that bothers me, they are being polarized away from the pacific unity of Liberty instead of falling in love with it.

Anyone who is willing to surrender Liberty for security deserves neither! And to paraphrase another great political statement (please don't take this personally), the one thing I have to say to these dumbfounded nation building Conservatistas is:

"It's about Liberty, stupid!"
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. wrong country....
ums up what most Jews see as the needs for Religious Statehood, which are either based upon Rabbi Kook's traditional messianic quest, which does not justify political religious socialism as Professor Leibowitz eloquently criticized it. Now Rabbi Hartmann takes Leibowitz's allowance that the "creation of Israel, could have religious impact by providing opportunities for furthering Jewish practice." and tries to run with the "Positive Zionism" angle but still that does not explain the need to impose totalitarian Judaism upon the residents, immigrants and citizenry.

not israel in the past...nor is it israel today......
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. where's the
"Jimmy Carter aint nuttin' but shit" post? ;-)
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Hey, djinn!
Good to see you in this little neck of the woods again!

Violet...
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