I am a neophyte and very ignorant of the I/P issue, however

[patdem]

Iran missilies can reach Israel. How many Israel missiles can reach Iran?

America had Nuclear missiles pointed at Russia for oh, about 50 years and nary a one was deployed!

I think IMHO that Israel is far too aggressive against the Palestinians and they should put an end to the violence.

Israel has a right to exist. Not because of biblical prophecy but because I also believe Muslims have a right to exist as do Buddhists as do Christians as do Atheists.

Religion has murdered more people than tobacco so how can it be defended as the 'law of the land'?

Might as well put Phillip Morris in charge!

I forgot one very important point...

Arafat is to Palestine as George Bush is to America....makeing both hated and we need to get rid of both of them!

[On the Road]

1. I Don't Know the Range of Israeli Missles

but Israeli bombers can easily reach Iran, and Israel has a sizeable nuclear arsenal (probably 100 or more). Pretty good deterrent, even if Iran is able to create a nuke.

And as far as a right to exist, I think Israel has unbelievable gall to invoke the 1948 UN Charter while occupying and denying the existannce of the other state created in the very same charter. (Just had to throw that in.)

[patdem]

2. I need much information...I read the occasional post

but real information is so varied. It is like haveing the internet during the Cold War and both cases could be posted.

I have not seen a good case for either nation...except to believe in my heart of hearts that Palestine MUST have a state un emcumbered by Isreal. But if Palestine does not ACCEPT Isreal...well it cannot exist. (Palestine_

[Aidoneus]

3. www.fas.org probably has something

I believe their Jericho missile line can hit every major Mideast capital (including Iran), and they have the ability to shoot satellites into space, so longer missiles can't be too far off. I don't remember details off hand.

[bemildred]

4. This is buried in the Shahab 3 thread.

Iran can do ~1500 Km.
Israel can do ~4000 Km, plus has sub launched cruise missiles.
They are as bad as they want to be, strategically.

All the noise is because they may not be immune to the consequences
any more, so their negotiating/bullying position is weakened.

It's like the situation in Iraq, where militarily the damage is
inconsequential, but the fact that we (USA) are seem to be hit
and the hittees are sometimes seen to get away with it is very
damaging, since in the long run we require the consent of the
governed to rule effectively.

[tinnypriv]

5. Yep

For more:

http://www.ceip.org/files/nonprolif/templates/article.asp?NewsID=2728

('Ballistic Missile Capabilities in the Middle East', Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, April 2002)

:)

[quilp]

6. But do they have a right to live in some elses country?

Palestine was "given to the Jews by Britain and America as a "homeland". Notice they didn't give the Jews New Jersey, or Kent. They gave them land belonging to Arabs. Since then they have given the Israelis enough money and military capability to subject the indigenous population, and drive them out. No different to Native Americans really. And Sharon is who? Abraham Lincoln?

[Gimel]

7. hmmm

So let them play G-d. OOOps, G-d said he gave it to the Jews.

[The Stranger]

8. This statement is very telling, Gimel:

OOOps, G-d said he gave it to the Jews.

[Poll_Blind]

10. How convenient that HIS God gave another's land to HIM.

It's a sentiment echoed in "How did all our oil get under THEIR sand?" It also means that anyone who does not belong to his religion who is occupying the land God gave to his religious subscription is able to be removed, you know, as an act to help fulfill God's divine plan.

Comments like Gimel's really show how this forum tried to accomodate Jews and Gentiles of differing opinions but instead became a place where fundamentalist religious rhetoric is peddled openly.

What a joke.

PB

[The Stranger]

9. They want you to use the Native American analogy.

It shuts up Americans because very little can be done about the Native American dispossession.

The correct analogy -- and far more accurate in detail regarding the native dispoessession and in terms of chronological significance -- is South Africa.

The coercive concentration of the native population in refugee camps mirrors the South African practice of doing so in townships. The denial of fundamental human rights, legal rights or citizenship to these dispossessed people is the practice of Apartheid.

It is also good to note that, where South Africa once instituted Apartheid, it was isolated from the rest of the free-thinking world and forced to change its ways. South Africa now exists as a multi-ethnic, multi-religious state (and free of nuclear weapons).

[quilp]

11. It doesn't shut me up. It was a crime then and a crime today.

The irreversibility of the betrayal of Native Americans only serves as a greater warning never to allow it to happen again. As the Jews rightly say about the holocaust: "Never again!"

[Lithos]

12. Locking

Not based on a recent news or op/ed article

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground