I have an honest question. No ridicule please.

[truth2power]

I never come down here to the gun dungeon as it's called. I don't own guns and know very little about them, although I have fired handguns, years ago, at a target range. Didn't know anything about them then, either, but I'm pretty accurate at hitting targets.

My question is, whenever someone on DU advocates getting a firearm to protect your home and family in the event things really go to pot, they usually advise getting a shotgun.

Why is a shotgun preferred to a handgun? How is that different from an ordinary rifle? What's the advantage?

I can almost hear you laughing. Sorry. I'm really, REALLY ignorant about these things. But I think it's time I started to educate myself.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[neuvocat]

1. Shotguns require less accuracy.

They don't have much of range but do well up close. Shotgun shells spread out quickly, practically guaranteeing you'll hit your target.

[truth2power]

2. Thank you, neuvocat. .

I should have figured that out I guess. So if someone busts down your door, you're almost certain to get them with a shotgun.

[Bonhomme Richard]

3. It's likely that a rifle or............

high powered pistol will penetrate your walls and potentially kill someone not meant as a target.

The best advice though is forget about it. The likelihood that a bad situation will become worse will only increase with a gun in your house.

[truth2power]

6. that's why I don't have guns now, but

the way things look politically, I don't know what's going to happen in the future. I'm not a pacifist.

[galadrium]

4. shotguns are better because you don't have to be that accurate...

to hit a target. shotguns also release a lot more energy, a devestating amount. I would recommed getting a shotgun with an 18 inch barrel... shortest allowed by law. A 12 gauge shotgun will have recoil similar to higher powered rifles like a 308 or a 30-06.

[mbnd45]

41. Entirely not true...

A 12-GA shotgun loaded with 00-buck (the preferred defense load) will deliver 9 pellets into a 6" circle at 15 yards, even with an unrestricted choke. Shotguns don't indiscriminately scatter pellets all over the place like a lot of people seem to think. With bird shot, the pattern opens up considerably, but is not an effective self defense load.

[TX-RAT]

42. Entirely not true...?

What part?

[mbnd45]

43. the part that you don't have aim a shotgun

[JayS]

5. I doubt anyone would laugh at you; that is a good question.

The big advantage the shotgun has over a rifle is that since it shoots a pattern of small "beads" as opposed to a single projectile, you don't have to be extremely accurate for it to work. A shotgun also lacks the power, or maybe more accurately the "beads" lack the velocity and mass, to really penetrate most walls. And someone staring down the barrel of a shotgun knows that the odds of coming away uninjured are fairly low.

[slackmaster]

7. Shotguns have many desirable characteristics

You can get a well-made, reliable one for less than $150.

Abundant different types of ammunition are available for different situations.

Useful for more kinds of hunting than are most handguns.

Much easier to hit your target because the shot spreads out quickly.

Small shot is not likely to penetrate multiple walls, this presenting less of a danger to innocent bystanders in case you have the misfortune of having to fire it in self-defense. This would be the biggest issue with using a rifle as opposed to a handgun or shotgun for indoor self-defense.

The sound made by racking the action of a pump or semiautomatic action is loud and makes it clear to the target that you are well armed.

In some places e.g. Chicago, New York City, and DC they are less subject to restrictive laws and therefore easier to get legally.

Less likely to be stolen by burglars because they are not as easy to conceal and not as popular on the criminal black market.

Less social stigma - I haven't heard of anyone proposing banning shotguns but there are people who want to ban handguns.

OTOH if you are comfortable using a handgun there's nothing wrong with that.

[truth2power]

10. This is all good info, guys.

Also, it's suggested (this is from the "cancelling elections" thread in GD, to get shells, shot, powder, wads(?) reloading machine. I guess because it's cheaper to do it yourself??

I'm sure not about to run out and get a shotgun, but I've always found it useful to keep all kinds of information tucked away in your brain, just in case. I don't want to sound hysterical. I'm not. But you just never know.....

[slackmaster]

12. Reloading

Lots of good reasons to do it, but probably not necessary because restrictions on shotgun ammunition are unlikely in the foreseeable future.

Reloading can also be very dangerous if you aren't willing and able to be meticulously accurate and cautious. An overcharged round or one made with an inappropriate type of powder can cause enough excessive pressure to literally blow your weapon to pieces in your hands.

Unless you are really interested in cooking up your own loads I'd recommend just buying two or three types of ammunition by the case and not worrying about it. I reload (or used to before work started sucking up all my time) several rifle calibers.

[truth2power]

16. Yikes!!

I didn't know that, about possibly blowing yourself up if you don't reload properly. I'm kind of clumsy. I'll pass on that, thanks.

[PopeyeII]

25. Pro's and Con's on reloading

For shotgun reloading; low-production; MEC-Jr. About $90. Exceptional instructions. Wads/shot/powder/primers; about another $35 to start. In the end; shotgun reloading will save you 40% to 60%; or cost $2.25 to $3.50 per box of 25 to reload. I've had about 2 in 5,000 rounds fail due to improperly seated primers. Round failed to go off. MEC instructions are excellent.

Personally I'd go w/Slackmaster's recommendations. Keep an eye out for sales at the local sporting good stores/K-Mart/Wally Mart. Through Gaylan's, Gander Mountain you can usually get a case of 250 on sale for $50.

Brass reloading; I've invested $400 for a RCBS Rock Chucker set. I enjoy all the finite details. Ammo costs about 45% new. You must appreciate the time consuming nature dedicated to perfection to really like it.

Buy cheap ammo for practice, buy a firearm that uses generic-common ammo (9mm, .38, .357, .223, .308) and you'll keep your cost down. Buy better ammo for a rainy day. Save all your brass, you may be able to re-sell it to another reloader. Personally I don't use anyone elses reloads.

[PopeyeII]

21. Low Penetration Shotgun Shells

The Winchester AA or Remmington STS trap shells are lower powered (but still lethal) shotgun loads. Won't penetrate 1/2" plywood at 25 yards. 12 gauge; 2-3/4"; 7-1/2 or 8 shot, w/2.75 drams of powder are light enough for most women trap/skeet shooters to pound out 25 in a row and think nothing of it. About $5 a box of 25.

Buckshot (00 thru #4) will penetrate and is effective up to 40 yards. I trap shoot and have a few boxes of trap shells on hand, but I keep a couple of boxes of buckshot handy for a rainy day. ;-) Buckshot $12-$18 a box of 25; depending on size/load.

Don't pick a load that hurts. Practice w/the trap ammo.

Mossberg makes a model 500 that you can get w/synthetic forearm and stock. About $250. Plain Jane; 10 year warantee; 6 shots. Try the auxiliary pistol grip see if you like it (usually included). I keep the original stock on mine for better aim and control. Comes with a cable lock if you feel the need to use one. Best budget shotgun for the money. I'd add a nylon sling and flashlight. Mossberg makes a Maverick edition that costs less, has a 1 year warantee, I personally have not tried one. My original 3 Mossberg 500/590's have never failed me. Excellent factory support and service.

Shotgun cleaning kit; oil etc; about $9

Be safe.

[John BigBootay]

30. What's a good trap round?

I just started doing that with my Winchester '97-- really fun.

What brand do you like?

[daveskilt]

8. for home defense (for new gun users)I recommend

A short barrel 12 gauge, a pump action with room for at least 7 shells. this gives the widest damage spread and the least range and power (less chance of going through walls or travelling far enough to injure someone in the next room.

but the biggest recommendation i have of course is TAKE GUN SAFETY LESSONS first.

IMO no one should be allowed to own a gun without a huge background check, a long waiting period and a series of gun safety lessons. I grew up around guns and by about age 5 I knew never ever to point a gun at anyone or myself (even if it isnt loaded, or if you are just moving it past them etc.) It also would help to take self defense classes and understand some basics there - as someone else rightly pointed out having a gun in your home actually increases your chance of being hurt - something called the weapons effect in psychology where people are more threatened by the presence of the weapon and more likely to take greater risks to avoid harm, also in any self defense class they should teach that any weapon you pick up can be used against you.

knowing what the hell you are doing and how to safely handle a weapon are essential.

[Hrumph]

35. Link please

"as someone else rightly pointed out having a gun in your home actually increases your chance of being hurt - something called the weapons effect in psychology where people are more threatened by the presence of the weapon and more likely to take greater risks to avoid harm"

uh... riiiiight.

[CO Liberal]

9. Perhaps Some People Prefer Shotguns....

...because they fantasize about blood splattering all over the place.

:shrug:

[truth2power]

11. Not in my case.

I don't believe in hunting, and think deer heads on the wall are obscene. (Sorry folks. I'm not out there saying others shouldn't hunt. I just wouldn't do it.) But I would do what was needed to protect my family.

on edit> I think the point is well made that for self defense, a shotgun would virtually ensure you can stop your attacker.

[Hrumph]

36. Couple more points

Shotguns are good weapons at close range but there are never any guarantees. Across a room, don't expect a shotgun to pattern much more than about a couple/few inches. It's a bigger area than a solid projectile, but it's by no means a guarantee of hitting the threat.

00 Buckshot will easily penetrate sheetrock walls and so will some of the smaller shot sizes. Any shotgun is capable of penetrating drywall, depending on the range from the wall.

Long guns present their own set of problems when trying to manuver through tight spaces like those inside a building, particularly in the area of weapon retention. ie, its easier to get a shotgun or rifle taken away from you than a handgun.

[slackmaster]

13. If you are attacked by zombies that's exactly what you want to see

AIM FOR THEIR HEADS!

:freak:

[PopeyeII]

22. My wife says:

SHOOT FOR THEIR BALLS!

[slackmaster]

24. No good on female zombies

Or males that are already castrated or have had their scrotum rot off.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal Classic]

Now that ain't nice

Been trying to make peace, and that don't help a bit.

[Lamorat]

15. You have this

weird fantasy that gun owners are mostly killers or blood thirsty maniacs. Not very kind or realistic at all. A shame.

Get to know some gun owners, your prejustices would vanish.

[CO Liberal]

17. Re-Read My Post, Lamorat, Before Jumping To Unfounded Conclusions

I said SOME gun owners - SOME!!! Not ALL.

Take a reading comprehension course - looks like you need it.

[Lamorat]

18. I'm sure

some car owners think of how to run from cops, or rob banks with them and get away.

Actually, cars are used in crimes WAY more than .2%, as with guns.

I don't understand the point of saying some tiny minority *might* be kooky. Who cares? The vast *vast* majority are great people.

[CO Liberal]

28. But....

...the though of an unstable asshole with a gun can be a bit frightening. And you have to admit that there ARE some unstable assholes on the pro-gun side, such as Wayne LaPierre and Ted Nugent.

[PopeyeII]

27. "Some gun owners"

Like those that own self loading firearms with synthetic stocks.

[FatSlob]

19. Perhaps somebody would write that...

because he is ignorant about self defense?

:shrug:

Or maybe it is because a shotgun can be the most effective means of home-defense for many people?

[Lamorat]

14. Easy

A shotgun can spit out 12-15 9mm sized bullets at a far faster velocity than a pistol, at one time.

However, I still prefer pistols mostly.. Smaller, easier to navigate with, less blast..

[Liberal Classic]

20. It's kind of a shame when...

Someone has to beg not to be ridiculed just for asking a simple question.

There have been plenty of good answers in this thread already. I doubt I could add siginicantly to them, but I'll give my $0.02 anyhow. The shot, or pellets, leave the barrel and spread out in a conical shape, which means you don't need the pinpoint accuracy to hit a target as you would when firing a pistol. The shot is much less likely to penetrate common walls, such as sheetrock/drywall or wood panelling. When fired at close range, a rifle or large caliber pistol will likely punch right through a wall and into the next room.

Education is always admirable. If you do decide to get one, I recommend taking a firearms safety course and finding a shooting range to test out how the weapon feels when it is fired. This is to give you some basic proficiency with firearms and knowledge of the law in your area, as well as an idea of what to expect when you pull the trigger should the worst ever occur.

[FrontPorchPhilosophr]

23. In the dark....

NOTHING sounds like "racking" (loading the first round) a pump shotgun, time enough for the bad guy to realize the danger, and leave....

Time enough for the kid sneaking home after sneaking out to say "Daddy?" and prevent a tragedy.

In ANY situation of self defense, you must ALWAYS consider collateral damage.

I would feel ZERO guilt taking out someone who threatened my family.

I would feel ENORMOUS guilt if saving my family caused injury to someone innocent.

I personally prefer a handgun. My personal defense weapon is .357 loaded with .38 special hollow points, or glaser safety slugs. I practice at the range, and I have walked my house thinking about where I COULD and COULD NOT fire, because of the POTENTIAL danger to others....

God willing it will NEVER come to that....:-(

[truth2power]

31. Liberal Classic...

I'm just checking back to see what's been added. I really do appreciate the help. I learn so much here on DU. :-)

[Zynx]

29. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet...

But in addition to being almost impossible to miss with inside of a room, shotguns tend to, well, blow the attacker to bits. Slight exaggeration, but you *cannot* beat a shotgun for close-in stopping power, even with an elephant gun. No matter how crazed or tough the attacker is, he will not be getting up from a close range blast of almost any type of pellet-something that can't be said about any gun short of big game rifles. It's not a matter of will when you have either lost a limb, had your head half blown off, or have had most of your torso destroyed.

I'd recommend heavy turkey or goose shot, IMHO. Takes out an area about the size of a dinner plate.

I'm pretty sure that someone has already mentioned that unlike rifles and big pistols, shotgun pellets can't really go through walls or doors with lethal energy and so won't kill little Johnny in the next room.

Shotguns can also be cocked with a lovely sound that everyone recognizes and most criminals want *nothing* to do with.

[OpSomBlood]

32. Welcome to the Gungeon.

And worry not, ridicule rarely comes from the pro-gun side in here. Honest questions about guns will always be answered, because we want to educate people as much as possible.

Never stop learning, especially about something as powerful as firearms.

[Liberal Classic]

33. Welcome to the jungle

We've got fun 'n' games
We got everything you want
Honey, we know the names
We are the people that can find
Whatever you may need
If you got the money, honey
We got your disease

[OpSomBlood]

34. I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets that tune in my head...

You know where you are?
You're in the Gungeon, baby!
You're gonna die!

[shreck]

37. pet peeve

Reading this thread I just KNEW I was going to come across the "pump shotgun=scary sound" If you have to confront an intruder in your home you should make sure the weapon is loaded as soon as you pick it up. An experienced shooter would instantly recognise the sound of a .45 being chambered but I think at this point it could be too late.
Also, shotguns at in-house ranges will penetrate interior walls with ease.

[taxidriver]

40. you can still cycle a round thru if its loaded. i've done it.

it just sounds so damn cool.

[happyslug]

38. The issue is human-weapon Interaction

Two handled weapons with a stock permits you to very quickly bring a weapon to a firing position. Once the stock is in your shoulder the weapon naturally "points" in the direction you want the weapon to shoot.

This "Human" engineering is the reason shotguns and rifles are easier to aim, easier to learn to shoot AND HIT YOUR TARGET (and can be more powerful compared to pistols).

Pistols were developed to permit one hand use of the weapon AND TO BE CARRIED ON THE BODY AS OPPOSED TO IN ONE"S HANDS. To obtain that one handed usability several compromises had to be made. First the ammunition has to be weaker since your hand has to be able to absorb all of the recoil (In a rifle or shotgun your shoulder and whole body absorb the recoil). Thus shotguns and Rifles are almost always more powerful than a pistol. In Shotguns, Rifles and Pistols one way to reduce recoil (and thus improve aim with minimal practice) is to use lighter rounds for the caliber of the weapon. Given the design of the pistol, these lighter loads may just be ineffective as compared to light loads of a shotgun. The effectiveness of any light loads (Pistols and Shotgun Light Loads) will be less than more powerful loads, but in Shotgun the drop in effectiveness is minor at the ranges within a house, as compared to the drop in effectiveness of pistols which can be drastic at the ranges found in most homes.

Second, the aiming points of a pistol has to be arm length away from your eyes (The arm has to be rigid to absorb the recoil of the pistol firing). Given this need for the arm to be rigid, the aiming points of the pistol are at least an ARM LENGTH AWAY FROM YOUR EYES. In a rifle or shotgun, putting the stock in your shoulder brings the weapons sights (It aiming points) right to your eyes. In a shotgun without any sights, the barrel can be used as an "aiming" post to "point" the weapon. Either way, the shotgun's and rifle's aiming points are quick to find and bring into alignment compared to a pistol. Thus it is easier to learn to use a Shotgun and easier to use it once learned compared to the more extension training needed to fire a pistol effectively.

The above two reason is why Rifles and Shotguns are more effective than Pistols. The difference is IMMENSE. A comparison can be made with the Military and Police, when they are in trouble and they have a choice between a pistol or a Shotgun, they go with the shotgun every time (Unless they want a rifle).

Now, some comments on Shotguns. I advocate the use of double barrel shotguns. These are simple to use, easy to load (and easy to check if loaded) and SHORTER THAN pumps and automatic shotguns. The reason for its shorter length is that in a Automatic or Pump the "action" has to be long enough for the Shotgun round to work into the chamber (Where the round is fired). Double barrel shotguns do not need this extra length and thus 2-3 inches shorter than Pumps and Automatics with the same barrel length.

The New York City Police for years equipped their detectives with double barrel shotguns not only for their shorter length, but there simplicity. In most double barrel (Not all thus when you look to buy you have to check) once you fire one barrel, the trigger is set by the recoil to fire the other barrel. Thus all you have to do is pull the trigger. Now you only have two shots, but over 90% of guns fights consist of two shots or less, thus not a problem. If you need more than two shots you are in bigger danger than you can get out of by yourself.

Thus the best recommendation for home defense tend to be the shotgun. A shotgun's range (Under 50 feet) is within the ranges most people will find in their home (If the ranges you plan to shoot at are over 50 feet, go with a rifle and its greater accuracy). Shotguns need less training to hit targets at the ranges we are talking about (under 50 feet). It is the Shotgun's better Human Engineering that makes it is a better choice than pistol.

Now as to Shotguns and Rifles, Rifles have greater range (I am ignoring 22 caliber rimfires which are low power rifles and as such weaker than most shotguns). Shotguns on the other hand uses shells filled with "Shot". "Shot" can be anywhere from 4-5 large round lead balls, to 30-40 small lead balls. Small Shot tend to be used for bird hunting (More shot being fire the more likely that one of the lead ball will hit the bird). Larger shots are used for larger "game" and as anti-personal rounds. As these rounds leave the barrel of the Shotgun they will spread out. At about 50 feet the spread is about the size of a Human torso (i.e. the main trunk of the Human body). At leaser ranges the "pattern" of this spread will be "tighter" (Remember it will be only .75 of an inch when it leaves the barrel of a 12 gauge shotgun). Thus under 50 feet the shotgun has a better chance of hitting a person you aim the weapon at compared to a pistol or even a Rifle. Over 50 feet the pattern tends to spread out to much so that it becomes harder to hit anything aimed at.

Rifles fire one round at a time (Unless we are talking of Automatic Weapons, something NOT normally used in home defense). The rifling turns the bullet so that is rotates in flight. This increases the accuracy of the Bullet. Depending on the caliber used you can accurately hit a man sized target up to 1000 yards away (And area target of a group of men 3-6000 yards away).

I hope this answered your question, it sounds like your knowledge of weapons is limited and thus I went into details I normally would have skipped. I hope the above is helpful, if you have any question feel free to contact me.

[taxidriver]

39. shotguns are the best home defense gun b/c of the following:

they are point and shoot weapons, and whatever you point at is gonna be real, real dead.

they are very intimidating and big- a burgler who sees you holding one will piss his pants and beg you to call the cops instead of shooting him.