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mikeb302000 Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:22 AM
Original message
Detroit Cop Suspended for Pointing His Gun
The Detroit News reports on the off-duty cop who resorted to using his gun during a fight at a party.

In Mexican culture, a Quinceaera is a coming-of-age party held for girls when they turn 15. The festivities at the Knights of Columbus hall turned violent and a brawl broke out, and Fox allegedly pointed his pistol at a 27-year-old man, Godbee said in a Nov. 11 letter recommending Fox's suspension without pay.

"A review of the incident revealed that Lincoln Park Police officers were dispatched to a location regarding a large fight," Godbee wrote. "The complainant alleged that he was assaulted by Officer Fox. The (Lincoln Park) officers also spoke with a witness, who said while the bathroom door was open, she observed Officer Fox standing over the complainant, pointing a black pistol at him."

Maybe the so-called victim was really the offender and if not for Officer Fox's timely intervention, people would have been hurt. I know that's what the gun-rights folks will say, they always find a way to excuse the actions of the gun owner, as long as he's a lawful and legitimate gun owner like a cop obvioulsy is.

I don't buy it. I think gun owners need to be held to a high standard and part of that is they need to be held accountable for their actions. Suspended and facing serious felony charges sounds about right in this case.

One thing this story proves is the futility of carrying a concealed weapon. The likelihood that you'll need it to save your life is minimal. But, if an argument or fight erupts, how are you going to not use your gun. How are you not going to do what Officer Fox did? The perceptive and circumspect gun owner will quickly see lethal threat in any confrontation. He'd be obligated to act with force himself.

It's a loser for everybody.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
(cross posted at Mikeb302000)
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Why would we defend the Cop? Do you ever tire of your strawmen?
Officer Fox had the only gun. It wasn't concealed. Nobody else seemed to have had one. Based on the investigation, one can probably reasonably assume the victim presented no reasonable threat.

With a reasonable apprehension of a design, etc. If you have one, you can indeed use a firearm to protect yourself. That condition does not appear to have been met in this case.

That's the bar. There is no other. Quit making up shit.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:49 AM
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2. you forget
Many cops are not gun owners. The gun is often the property of police department. Just like the M-16 I have carried at times was not mine, it was property of US Air Force (or US Army, depending on the year).
The internal affairs investigation will find what it finds, could be different than the news report says, and different whatever speculation you come up with.
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:31 AM
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3. It's not at all clear what happened from that story.
We can guess that the officer reported the guy he pointed the gun at as committing a felony, and this claim being rejected by the investigators - this explains the "false report of a felony" charge. This could be real - the guy making stuff up to justify overreacting and pulling a gun - or it could be that no one wanted to testify and it's the cop's word against everyone else, or something in between, or something else.

I do wonder what he would have done if he hadn't had the gun, and why.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:08 AM
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4. as well he should be and after an internal investigation he could very well be fired --
I would think -- justifiably so. fucking idiot.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:13 AM
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5. Hopefully he'll be cleared and back on the job soon.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. You ask if an argument or fight erupts, how are you going to not use your gun?
Simple, you just walk away even if it makes you look like a coward.

If an individual is not threatening you in a manner that would lead to you being seriously injured or killed, lethal force is not appropriate. I don't view someone arguing with me as a serious threat. He might turn into one if I continue the argument. Since I have no desire to shoot anyone, I just stop the argument and leave the scene.

I was far more likely to get into a fight before I started carrying a legal concealed weapon. Now I am a far more polite individual. Obviously I didn't get into fights before I got my permit or it would have been denied. But before I got the permit, I wouldn't have backed down as easily if confronted.

From your posts you seem to have a lot of misconceptions about those who legally carry concealed. Since you now live in Italy, you probably form your opinions from Hollywood movies and TV shows. Often people who live in areas where concealed carry is uncommon such as Chicago or New York City have the same false views. Those who have carry permits are rarely aggressive or violent individuals. The background check to obtain a permit eliminates such people.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm still not comprehending how one law-breaking policeman conflates to.....
all gun owners are criminals and firearms are useless for defense.

You really need to work on that one....

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