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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 10:45 AM
Original message
Gun Nuts in a Rut (NY Times)
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/gun-nut... /

PHOENIX When it became clear in the early fall of 2008 that Barack Obama, son of a Kansan and a Kenyan, would be the 44th President of the United States, many citizens rushed to their gun shops, stocked up on ammo and camo, and tried to fortify their nests with all manner of lethal weapons.

Though he had said nothing about gun control in the campaign, Obama, to a certain kind of person, appeared to be a grave threat to the Second Amendment. He was urban Chicago, not the kind of place where a man could shoot a coyote with a laser-sighted Ruger while on his daily jog, as Gov. Rick Perry claims to have done. He was professorial, with scholastic braising at that home of confiscatory consensus, Harvard. And hed made that statement about rural people clinging to guns and religion.

Into the early months of the Obama presidency gun sales went though the roof. A nation of at least 200 million firearms reached for ever more, in a hurry and a frenzy.

And then, nothing. No legislation. No speeches about the ubiquity of guns in the most violent of Western democracies. Obama actually increased gun rights, signing a bill with a rider that allows people to pack loaded and concealed heat in national parks. Even after the slaughter in Tucson in January of 2011, when six people were killed and 13 wounded, including Representative Gabrielle Giffords, in a madmans spree, Obama did nothing to keep guns out of the hands of those at the margins of sanity.

<more>
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's worth noting, BTW, that that is the NYTimes' actual headline.
So don't bother alerting on the OP's post.

Tesha
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. We are used to the NYT punking around on this issue as well. nt
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Simo 1939_1940 Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. On one of her programs, Rachel Maddow was talking
Edited on Fri Dec-02-11 11:04 AM by Simo 1939_1940
with a rather inarticulate Tea Partier regarding President Obama's "threat" to gun owners. A young man walked up and joined the conversation, and made a statement that made Rachel quite uncomfortable. Quoting from memory, he said something along the lines of "Just google Obama + gun control." Why do I claim that this made Rachel uncomfortable? Her body language, for one, and the fact that when the clip ran again on a subsequent program, the appearance of the young man was edited out.

Then of course on 1/11/11 - the day of Ms. Maddow's dishonest rant following the Tucson shooting - she made the assinine assertion that all of the information on the internet regarding gun control was biased, and discouraged her viewers from attempting to research the issue on the web. So Rachel - if all of the information on gun control on the internet is biased, which of the following two reasons would explain this phenomenon?

1) Pro-control proponents are remaining silent on the issue, or.......
2) Pro-RKBA proponents have a super-duper internet eraser and are scrubbing the "truth" from the web?

Rachel, of course, didn't want her viewers to stumble across information like this:

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/barack_obama_gun_co...
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Rachel rules - the GOP/NRA drools
yup
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. so true.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Who cares about possible "trouncing" from people who actually strap a gun or two on to walk outside.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Estimated 80 million gun owners... even if only half were"pissed off"
that's a helluva voter block to side against.

On this issue, Obama is doing what he does best - being vauge and not making enemies.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
40. Anyone who votes based primarily upon guns is truly a friggin nut.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. And anyone who ignores a block of 80 million voters is also a friggin nut.
:shrug:
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We_Have_A_Problem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Politicians do if they have half a brain.
Gun owners are a very large voting block, and virtually all of us actually DO vote. Pissing off gun owners is a VERY bad idea. Just ask Clinton...
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. That holster still "groin?" nt
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. One or two at a time
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. So are you gun lovers.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Except the bits where the facts aren't on her side.
But she's usually really good, one of my more trusted commentators.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Yup - more of that "backlash" every day ...
... in the courts, in the legislatures.

49 states with CCW and only one to go.

AP (obviously another tool of the NRA) reported today that firearms were one of the top three categories of items sold on Black Friday. Lot's of backlash and more to come.
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burf Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. Then there the fact there have been
over 13 million background checks in the first ten months of 2011, and it looks as though Black Friday guns sales were sizable too.

Yepper, looks as though people are through with their purchasing guns.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. The GOP/Brady bunch also are "unaware" of...
1) A.G. Holder advocated for passage of yet another assault weapons "ban" -- while in office after Obama was elected;
2) House Speaker Pelosi advocated for passage of yet another asssault weapons "ban" -- while in office after Obama was elected; and
3) The Democratic Party Platform continues to call for an expanded and permanent assault weapons ban.

The man Obama appointed to be the highest law enforcement official, the leader of the Democrats in Congress and the very platform continue to call for sweeping bans -- all during Obama's administration.

This must be kept firmly in the minds of gun-control advocates who want the issue to "go away" -- until (and if) they have the wherewithal to again renew prohibitionist policies.

puy.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Simo 1939_1940 Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
44. Nope. It's Rachel that drools w/regard to

gun restriction. Sadly, she has no idea how much damage she does the Democratic Party in the process.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. To be fair when Obama was running for President he was the Junior Senator ...
from Illinois.

He would have had zero chances of ever succeeding as a Democratic politician in Illinois if he had ever expressed ANY views that were pro-gun ownership. The state was basically run by the Daley Machine and Mayor Daley advocated draconian gun control.


Richard M. Daley

Richard Michael Daley (born April 24, 1942) is a United States politician, member of the national and local Democratic Party, and former Mayor of Chicago, Illinois. He was elected mayor in 1989 and reelected in 1991, 1995, 1999, 2003, and 2007.<1> He was the longest serving Chicago mayor, surpassing the tenure of his father, Richard J. Daley, on December 26, 2010.<2><3> Daley announced on September 7, 2010, that he would not run for re-election in 2011.<4> His term ended May 16, 2011. On May 24, 2011 the University of Chicago announced Daley's appointment as a senior fellow at the Harris School of Public Policy<5> and on June 1, 2011 international law firm Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP announced that Daley would be of counsel to the firm.<6>

***snip***

Political beliefs and actions

Daley is an advocate of gun control, supporting Chicago's ban on handguns that was implemented in 1982 and struck down by the Supreme Court in 2010.<14> He is a member of the Mayors Against Illegal Guns Coalition,<15> an organization formed in 2006 and co-chaired by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Boston Mayor Thomas Menino.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_M._Daley
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Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
41. Great point! Thanks for the info!
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Simo 1939_1940 Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
43. Fair point - though his flip-flop on the issue of the M1 rifles

doesn't leave me with the impression that he knows what he's doing. He just flaps in whatever direction the political wind is blowing.

(This coming from a voter who donated the maximum legal amount to his campaign.)


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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. There is no doubt that Obama is a great orator ...
and can enthuse people with his visions.

Unfortunately to a great extent, he has failed to develop the leadership skills necessary to turn vision into reality. I fully expected him to use his skills to gain support for his goals and force Congress to implement the necessary legislation to effect change.

There are times when it appears that he is waiting for his second term and playing the political games necessary to obtain reelection. I feel that he could be far more involved in creating jobs, working on ways to improve our fiscal situation and help preserve worthwhile entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare. While I fully agree that the 1% should be taxed at a higher rate, that alone will not solve all of our problems. His leadership might have caused a quicker end to the recession and avoid what I call The Great Recession.

However there is no doubt that he faced serious problems bought on by eight years of mismanagement by a Republican administration. I suspect the Republicans fully realized that a Democrat would gain election to the office of the President in the last Presidential election and did everything in their power to sabotage the chances of a Democrat remaining in office for eight years. I also suspect that many friends of the Republican Party benefited from the financial fiasco and the bailout at the end of the Bush administration. Nobody knows where the money went.


Where did that bank bailout go? Watchdogs aren't sure
Posted on Sunday, August 9, 2009

WASHINGTON Although hundreds of well-trained eyes are watching over the $700 billion that Congress last year decided to spend bailing out the nation's financial sector, it's still difficult to answer some of the most basic questions about where the money went.

Despite a new oversight panel, a new special inspector general, the existing Government Accountability Office and eight other inspectors general, those charged with minding the store say they don't have all the weapons they need. Ten months into the Troubled Asset Relief Program, some members of Congress say that some oversight of bailout dollars has been so lacking that it's essentially worthless.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/08/09/73212/where-did-t...


I had dreams that Obama would be the greatest President since FDR. Every forty or fifty years our country goes though a major change which under modern terms might be called a reboot. If we are to save the middle class we need real change. I hoped Obama would lead this change.

Perhaps he still will. Time will tell. I do expect that he will be reelected if the economy shows ANY signs of improvement. Considering the current Republican field, he may well win if the economy doesn't improve.

Of course if Obama does get reelected there is a chance that he will try to implement draconian gun control. Considering the few comments that he has made about the issue, I doubt it. (Obama's op-ed to the Arizona Star: http://azstarnet.com/article_011e7118-8951-5206-a878-39... )

I also had some misgivings about Obama's handling of the M1 rifle issue. I see it as a small gift to the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. I also suspect that, if reelected, Obama will push to extend the NICS background check to private sales at gun shows. This will infuriate the NRA and some gun owners but I have no problem with this idea and would actually favor finding a way to require the background check for ALL private sales. I don't expect him to ask for another assault weapons ban. Of course I could be wrong, but I was not surprised when he didn't do what the NRA and other conservative organizations predicted he would do during his first term.












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Simo 1939_1940 Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. It's clear that you and I think *very* much alike in terms of

the performance of our President. That said........

I also had some misgivings about Obama's handling of the M1 rifle issue. I see it as a small gift to the liberal wing of the Democratic Party.

That was precisely my take on the issue. What concerns me so deeply, however, is that Democratic leadership still fails to see how the GOP successfully uses decisions such as this to remind voters of how dizzy Democrats are on all matters relating to the RKBA. In my view, that was one very expensive bone he tossed to his base. I'm also highly skeptical that he would have signed off on allowing firearms in national parks if that item wasn't attached to something he wanted passed.

I also suspect that, if reelected, Obama will push to extend the NICS background check to private sales at gun shows. This will infuriate the NRA and some gun owners but I have no problem with this idea and would actually favor finding a way to require the background check for ALL private sales.

While I'm not so sure that President Obama will make this stand, I agree with you that it's a good idea. I have no problem with requiring background checks for all private sales.

I don't expect him to ask for another assault weapons ban.

Agree here as well. I could well be wrong, but I doubt that he'll make any moves to remove renewal of the "assault weapons" ban from the party platform. And I find this very sad. Given the fact that the research of esteemed liberal Democratic criminologists could be used to educate the (largely ignorant) base, the time has long since come to do so. And yes -- no surprise that he didn't push for draconian "control" as predicted by the NRA.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. you can pickup a coyote special edition of the LCP
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Rick Perry sucks
yup
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. but the Ruger LCP rules in the pocket 380 market...I love mine.
it's been rock solid reliable now for almost 1000 rounds, only two FTF's. Both those cleared before I could react to the failures...


I've even run cheap-o tula steel cased junk without any issues. If you're looking for a nice pocket pistol you can bet your life on the Ruger is it.

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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. How's the trigger pull?
I want a 380 for my wife. She does not like the long hard trigger pull of my Taurus Millenium.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. She does have weak hands. Thanks.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #29
46. I have a Millenium. What cal is yours?
Mine is a .40 loaded with 165gr hollowpoint. I love it. 2000 rounds through it, no FNF's. I trust it with my life.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
48. I have been checking out the Smith and Wesson
Bodyguard .380. Tough choice.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. Nice arguement
Now hurry on in and wash your hands, your mom is calling you.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Though he had said nothing about gun control in the campaign" That's a lie.
Anyone who read Change.Gov, saw his calls to renew the AWB clear as day, in plain english.

That was HIS policy. Yes, I am grateful he didn't follow up on it. He has performed well in office, at least on this issue, even if the fucking wars are still going.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. An article based on an insinuation of racism, bigotry on the part of the author....
Edited on Fri Dec-02-11 11:45 AM by PavePusher
(championed by the quoter), several outright lies and a mislabeled picture = Another Phale For jpak.

yup
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. But the author at least got the "sensible laws" meme into play
Edited on Fri Dec-02-11 01:40 PM by friendly_iconoclast
However, he forgot to use "reasonable", so -1 for that...
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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. William Shatner on gun control
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. gotta love Denny Crane! The Shat is the Shit!!
:D :thumbsup:
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Thank God for Guns!
ROFLCOPTER! :toast: :bounce: :beer:
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. DEER are in rut. nt
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Too late now, I've stopped for the season after last weekends deer.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
32. The issue is that if Congress passes anti-gun legislation...
...the popular opinion is that he'll sign it and enforce it.

The concern (well, "fear" is probably a better word) was that Obama would either work with Congressional Dems to create and pass stringent gun-control laws, use the bully pulpit to push his own plans through, or sign (fail to veto) any oppressive gun laws that were made part of bills as riders or whatever.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. He had an excellent opportunity to pass anti-gun legislation ...
during his first two years in office and he showed absolutely no interest in doing so.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Well, not as much as you think, maybe.
There were a lot of conservative dems that were not in the mood to deal with it, especially with a midterm election coming up, people flipping out about the health care bill and stimulus package, and the fact that,historically, the Dems were about to have a bloodbath in the 2010 midterms.

I'd be more concerned with his final two years in office, quite frankly.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. If he decides to seek reelection, IMO he will avoid pushing gun control ...
unless it's merely to improve the NICS background check.

I also have every reason to believe that he will run for a second term.
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discntnt_irny_srcsm Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
36. It's all just news.
It's never a bad time to buy a Ruger but it looks like a good time buy Sturm, Ruger & Company.

;)
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
45. those that went in the fall of 2008 got the last of the reasonable priced firearms.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
47. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
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