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Gun-Toting Bicyclist Kills Would-Be Therapy Dog in Davie on Thanksgiving Day

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:54 AM
Original message
Gun-Toting Bicyclist Kills Would-Be Therapy Dog in Davie on Thanksgiving Day
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/26/gun-toting-bic...

A dog training to assist the elderly in therapy was shot and killed in his owner's Davie front yard by a gun-toting bicyclist on Thanksgiving Day, according to the South-Florida Sun-Sentinel.

The shooter, whom police have not yet named, told investigators he was attacked by the two-year-old Doberman pinscher named Scooby. But Scooby's owner said his dog, a former rescue, would never have hurt anyone.

"It's very alarming that someone would be riding a bike with a gun at 11 a.m. on Thanksgiving Day," 24-year-old Dan Abou told the Sun-Sentinel. "That man came here looking for trouble. I still can't believe this."

Abou admits Scooby was unleashed in the yard while he cleaned out his garage, in defiance of a Broward County ordinance that requires dogs to be leashed, chained, or kept behind a fence while outdoors, according to the Sun-Sentinel. He told the paper most of the residents in his subdivision let their dogs play outside unleashed with no problems.

<more>

This what the Founding Fathers intended when they penned the Holy 2A

yup
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. unrecc for dupe
but you knew that
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. Was the dog attacking the bicyclist?
Yes or no?
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zanana1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. You'll use any excuse, won't you?
You'll do anything but admit that loose gun laws are a danger. I just hope that you or a member of your family never gets shot.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Repressive gun laws are more of a risk to lives and freedom
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I have been shot
Still support RKBA
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Excuse?
:rofl:


Excuses are something people use to justify doing something they probably shouldn't be doing.


This is a REASON.
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. Holy shit I hope you're joking.
Being attacked by a dog is a pretty fucking good reason to use a gun. I'll let you go now as I assume you're a very busy rocket scientist or something.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
52. Dog owner clearly broke the law.
Did the bicyclist break the law or not?
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Remmah2 Donating Member (971 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
100. What loose gun laws?
The dog was loose and went after the biker.

Getting bit by a dog is no fun either.

It's clear the dog owner was in violation of the local ordinances.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
105. Ever been chewed on by a dog, or known someone who has?
I suggest you are ignorant and opinionated. Both legal, of course, but make you look less than significant.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. That is the claim
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Only the shooter knows - he was looking for an excuse to be a stupid "gun hero"
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 12:53 PM by jpak
by biking with a gun in broad daylight in a suburban neighborhood on a holiday

yup
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Damn those fucking rude fucking toters
Always exercising their civil rights
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You mean pet killers?
they suck

yup
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Then keep your pet leashed or in a fenced in yard NT
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Someone shot my 2 cats in my front yard - in town - when I lived in Texas
same douchebag "gun hero" mentality

yup
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. What did the authorities do about it?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Nothing - I didn't figure it out until years later
My GF called me at noon the day it happened - one of my kitty's leg's was dangling by a piece of skin and she lost a lot of blood.

My other kitty didn't show up again for several days,

Neither of us were there when it happened, so we thought she had been hit by a car (even though she never went in the road).

The vet who put her back together could not understand how her leg was shattered like that.

She had a severe limp for the rest of her life.

Many years later my other cat developed a lump under his skin - when the vet opened it up, a bullet popped out.

It all made sense then - some stupid douchebag Texas gun hero thought it was his "duty" to shoot up my cats on my lawn.

Did I say stupid douchebag gun hero?

yup
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. 100% your fault cats are NOT outside animals NT
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Yeah - outside cat = your target = stupid gun hero douchebagery
yup
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #46
70. You have no clue as to where the shooting, if it was one, took places
Birders are getting real aggressive about cats in some places...
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #40
102. So, just murder everything in sight then?
You know many serial killers start out killing animals. Just a thought. If someone goes out with a gun waiting for the moment where they can finally shoot something, there's probably something mentally wrong with them.

Do you really think it's justified shooting a cat (probably just because it was on that guy's yard or something)? It's not like they're 100 lb beasts that can rip your jugular vein out of your neck. They won't even attack you unless if you go right up to them.

And you're wrong - many cats are outside animals that like to roam. Don't blame that poster for letting his cat do what they naturally want to do.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #102
108. if the cats were in his yard, no it's not his fault ... if the cats were not in his yard,
then yes he shares some blame.

if you can't keep your cat in your yard, under your control, or in your house, you shouldn't oughta have a cat.

my dogs are outside animals that like to roam, that's what they naturally want to do ... but that doesn't mean i let them roam, for fuck's sake. keep your cat in your yard, out of my yard, out of the street.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #108
113. So, if a cat's in your yard, that gives you the right to go open season on it?
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 07:18 PM by chrisa
Ignoring how morally disgusting that is to begin with, it's also extremely dangerous to be shooting bullets off in a residential neighborhood.

I can't imagine how messed up someone would have to be to kill a cat just because it decided to go in their yard.

If I had a cat, I wouldn't let it roam either. If I saw one in my yard, my first thought wouldn't be to grab a gun and shoot it though. I would question the sanity of someone who had the impulse to do that.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. I live on 20 acres, it's 400yds to my nearest neighbor,
cats can and do kill chickens. I have 100 or so laying hens in my coops. If there is a cat in my front yard I will/have killed it. If you don't like that then tough.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #116
136. Well, I hope you will reconsider for the future.
Edited on Wed Nov-30-11 12:27 PM by chrisa
The cat may just be passing through.

Maybe try firing a warning shot or something to scare it off? Even forcefully relocating it would be better. There's multiple ways to get rid of a cat.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #136
137.  My front yard is 15 acres. There is a leash law in this county.
If you let YOUR cat roam, then don't blame me for what happens to it. The majority(90%) of the cats I shoot are, by law, feral. They raise havoc with the quail and squirrels.
I also shoot dogs on my property, for the same reason.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #113
118. No, if YOUR cat is in MY yard it means
you are an irresponsible pet owner who doesn't give two fucks about your cat's health and well being. Imagine how morally disgusting that is to begin with.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #118
124. So, someone who outright just shoots a cat, and then walks away shouldn't
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 09:42 PM by chrisa
take any blame? Why is that? Aren't they the one that fired the shot? Even if the cat is causing trouble, how could this be justified?
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #124
125. I did answer the question
Keep the cat locked up and safe like you are supposed to and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

To answer you explicitly no, it is not ok to shoot a defensless animal unless for food or because it is a threat
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #125
127. I agree with your last sentence.
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 09:52 PM by chrisa
Disagree with everything else, though.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #124
128. No It's NOT justified
But that doesn't mean there aren't people out there who will do it therefore it is your responsibility as a pet owner to protect your pet by not letting them out of the house unsupervised.

If I leave my car running in my driveway and you steal it you were wrong period. That doesn't mean I don't bear some of the responsibility right?

Look I don't see why you don't get this, the world isn't a safe place, I love my animals so i protect them just like I would a toddler you wouldn't leave a two year old alone in your front yard would you?
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #113
131. learn to read for comprehension, follow the thread.... n/t
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #102
117. No I'm not wrong
Cats that roam have shorter lives. Cats do not have the ability to reason we as pet owners need to restrain them and protect them. If you let your cat roam and it ends up dead it was your fault.

If someone goes out with a gun waiting for the moment where they can finally shoot something, there's probably something mentally wrong with them.

Please see me thread entitled "this is really getting old" in this forum
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #117
123. Edited, since this was answered already
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 09:53 PM by chrisa
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
48. Finally, a pathology explained.
That'd piss me off too. There are better ways of coping than holding it against millions of people who did nothing to you, but whatever.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. OMG I think you're right
I think we finally figured out where all jpak's gun hate comes form
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
61. Maybe he'll see it too
I guess I wouldn't bet on it...well maybe a dollar, at those kind of odds it's like a lottery ticket.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. But you defend them
You say they have a right to come on to MY property and shoot my cats- just because they are outside.

yup
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. I believe you believe people have said that.
But if you look again, absolutely no one has said that. You're reading through a fog of your cat pain and convincing yourself that each of us is the redneck that shot your cats. You never got to tell them off, so now you're going to do it here with us.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. I was told it was my fault that my cats got shot in my fenced-in yard
You defend the cat shooting douchebags

yup
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. No one here said what you insisted they did.
No one said a person had the right to shoot your cats. No one defended that. It's seriously time to have some personal growth, get some perspective, and read what people are saying instead of what some echo from your past makes it sound like they're saying.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. Shooting an animal for fun is low Jpak
no one here supports that.

Let go of your hatred and anger you can come back from the dark side
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #67
75. This is why most gun owners are not hunters of animals - their guns are to be used against humans
yup
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. hunting is for food
unless you are a vegetarian or like supporting the factory farm system is beyond barbaric.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. Hunting is not shooting an animal for fun
Hunting helps maintian healthy population levels and in many states uincluding Colorado revenues form hunting and fishing licenses go to support State conservation agencies.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Jpak, please read this post carefully because I am 100% serious
What we (or at least I) are saying is that the cats were shot because you failed in your responsibility as a pet owner to protect them. Cats (or dogs) aren't smart enough to be left on their own. You wouldn't leave a two year old loose in the front yard why a cat?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #65
71. So, it is OK with you for gun hero sociopaths to roam your neighborhood shooting pets
sicko

yup
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #71
81. My pets especially my cats
are never outside my front door unless they are on a leash. the cat never goes outside period
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Marengo Donating Member (296 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #71
98. He said nothing of the sort, and you know that...
You bear some of the responsibility, be an adult and accept that.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
84. gun hero for killing an animal?
the only douchebag around here is you with all of the crap you spew.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
93. Maybe you should keep your cats on a leash so they don't attack bicyclists.
In all seriousness, what kind of fucking 'bullet' did you find in your cat? Even a tiny goddamn .22 should come out the other side.

Did you mean PELLET?


I'm also curious how you seem so certain your cats were shot *in* your yard, given you weren't there, and didn't witness it.


Ignoring, of course, your completely inane and bullshit comparison to whatever happened to your cat, and a human defending himself from an allegedly attacking dog.
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Marengo Donating Member (296 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
97. Can you provide documentation of this incident? N/T
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. I saw someone intentionally run over a cat. Doesn't count, though, right?
I mean, it was just a car, not a gun.

Plenty of cars.

Plenty of cats.

puy.
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Remmah2 Donating Member (971 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #14
104. Totally different situation Einstein.
Too bad you weren't a responsible pet owner. I keep my cats inside for their own protection.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
107. So, your cats were charging at people in the street?
So, yeah, not at all the same situation I guess....
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
109. Did your cats attack the shooter first?
No? Then I guess it ISN'T the same, is it?
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Do I hear an implied "or else". nm
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. I didn't. What did you hear? nt
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
43. What you hear is a very explicit
it is your responsibility as a pet owner to ensure that your pets are supervised or restrained at all times. Animals can't apply logic therefore it is our duty as pet owners to make choices for them to keep them safe just like we do for a toddler.

If a dog is running loose an causes trouble it is never the dog's fault and always the owner's fault. Unfortunately it is almost always the dog that pays
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
86. You're hearing things.
or you want to.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Or you dont want to. nm
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #89
94. I think I explained my intent pretty clearly
funny, you seem to have ignored it entirely.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #94
111. I agree. It was crystal clear. If you are suspected of stealing someone's property in Texas
expect to get shot and possibly killed. Texans are real men, they carry guns.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. WRONG!!!!! If you are caught stealing property in Texas. Don't tell lies. n/t
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #112
122. I can see the problem. In most states if you are "caught" stealing, YOU ARE A SUSPECT.
Isnt it the same in Texas? I totally understand shooting someone that is trying to harm you or your family. But someone that you think you saw damaging your property, it isnt right to be able to shoot them.

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We_Have_A_Problem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #122
133. You are a suspect to the STATE.
If I personally catch you stealing my property, you're not a suspect, you're a target.

The concept of due process applies only to what the STATE can do to you. I, as a private individual, am not restricted in such a manner while defending and exercising my rights.

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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #111
119. WTF are you talking about?
What does shooting thieves in Texas have to do w/ being a responsible pet owner?
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Owner has admitted the dog was loose and not in a fenced areas...damn law breaking dog owners...
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. In Maine - if you shoot someone's pet - you go to court
Other states - not so much.

yup
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Its all in the context
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 03:19 PM by ProgressiveProfessor
Dogs are great but ill behaved ones can be a menace. Seen them be a serious threat to motorcyclists and and bicyclists. If charged by a dog, I have no problem with the person being menaced using any available means of defense including deadly force. Dog owner should have kept them controlled as required by law.

Maine's law is far from absolute and does it apply when you snowbird to Florida?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. That means *NOTHING* in this context
From what I read it was "in training" not certified, not that it matters one whit in this situation. If a dog is unrestrained and menacing, any available defensive measures are allowed, even by snowbirds
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Yeah - the dog ran up wagging its tail and got shot by a gun hero douchebag
context

yup
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #32
49. "the Doberman Pinscher ranked relatively high on stranger-directed aggression"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doberman_Pinscher#Aggressi...

Yeah, wagging it's barely existent tail.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
69. Nothing backs up that is what happened
The only identified witness so far is the bicyclist claiming self defense.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
115. Were you there?
Are there witnesses that back up what you said?



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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
132. You're a remote viewer as well as a telepsychologist? Cool! n/t
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
54. guy getting attacked by the dog cannot ascertain the difference.
Service dogs are kept on leash as well. Owner broke the law, period.
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
83. When its teeth are
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 09:18 PM by one-eyed fat man
are sunk deep in your leg, you will likely not consider it therapeutic.

Velo-dog

The Velo-Dog was a pocket revolver originally created in France by Charles-Franois Galand in the late 19th century as a defense for cyclists against dog attacks.<1> The name is a portmanteau of "velocipede" and "dog".


Dogs have had an urge to chew on cyclists legs or tangle themselves in the spokes for about 140 years now.

While you are all on about the dog being shot, I cannot think of a dog attack, no matter how vicious, where the owner did not claim the dog was harmless, even after the vet removes most of the neighbor's kid from it's digestive tract.

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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
87. Dobermans can be dangerous, as can any dog
so take your "douchebag gun heroes ubber alles" and stuff it.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
130. Astonishing
You will never ever admit any shooting by a non-cop is justified, will you?
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. You contradict your self
First you claim only the shooter know and then you make a statement about his motives.
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. They've also been quoting Fox News and Michael Bloomberg's MAIG lately.
while decrying the "GOP/NRA"

Our jpak isn't much for consistency...
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
34. I thought only the Shadow knows... and the "heroic" jpak. nt
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. You still haven't told us where you got your degree in telepsychology.
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 03:53 PM by friendly_iconoclast
Until then, it's safe to say you have no idea what you're talking about...
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
53. If he were biking in a bad neighborhood at 11pm, you'd say the same thing.
Disingenious, bullshit, as usual.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
85. Yeah, I'm sure he was looking forward to a police investigation...
...lawyer fees, and a courtroom appearance, even before any judicial punishment. :eyes:

Face it: one of the reasons he carried a gun came true that day, and you can't deal with that.
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Remmah2 Donating Member (971 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
103. What makes you think he was trying to be a hero.
Seems he was minding his own business and protected his own ass.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
106. I did it through a National Park.
Maybe you should get together with Hoyt for a group buy:

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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. I've never killed a dog while riding my bike....1100 miles this year alone, all of them with the 380
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. It can happen
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 03:51 PM by safeinOhio
I had to shoot a 100 lb rott that was coming after me after attacking my horses. One shot from my 22 pistol was all it took. It was a feral dog I had seen around for a few days. A few days earlier I had seen it on the road and stopped to see if I could get it in the truck to take it to animal control. It just growled and barred it's teeth.
I've had aggressive dogs come at me while jogging and biking, but never had to shoot one. If one gets off the bike and holds it between himself and the dog, then make lots of noise and usually the owner will come out and get the dog. Once while jogging a couple of pits came at me. I bluffed em just long enough for a car to come by and see what was happening. They stopped and let me in the car. If you are going to all of the trouble of buying and carrying a gun, you might take a little time to look into what to do if attacked by a dog. Use the damn google.Ds do get out and loose, but it doesn't matter if you get bit. If it's your dog You will be sued and it will cost you a bunch. I heard about someone that got sued. They told the judge that the dog gets out and there wasn't much they could do. The judge said "then you are telling me your dog is smarter than you".
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Like anyone that puts time on a bike I've had lots of agressive dogs.
Like I said, I always have my LCP when riding...for whatever I may encounter.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. Most likely a nice dog is dead
because of two idiots. The owner for leaving his dog unleashed, breaking the law, and the gun owner for not knowing how to handle a dog situation.

I sometimes carry when out biking. However, I'd never shoot a dog unless he got pass the bike that I hold between me and the dog when threatened by the dog. It is easy to get off the bike and keep the bike between you and the dog. There is a much greater danger if it involves several dogs.

The law requires all dogs to be on a leash. That is a good law that protects the dog and the public.


I'd say this story is a toss up.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I'd say this story is a toss up.
100% dog owner's fault. Dog owner was breaking a law to let the dog run free had the dog owner obeyed the law we wouldn't be having this discussion
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Is "not knowing how to handle a dog situation" a fault that makes someone an idiot?
Is that one of those basic skills (like changing a tire, building a campfire, tipping the maitre d', or diapering a baby) that every adult should have if they want to be non-idiots? :shrug:
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. The shooter is an idiot
yup

yup

yup
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. The dog owner was the larger idiot
He even tried the "everyone does it around here" defense
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
47. This.
/subthread
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. I'd say a dog is dead and the owner is at fault. Dogs temperament is still undetermined.
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digonswine Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. Perhaps he should have had the dog-repellent pepper spray--
the stuff works and does not kill pets.
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. He has no obligation to look out for the health of an animal attacking him.
That's on the owners, who sound like dolts.
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digonswine Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
95. They might be idiots-
and I don't know all the particulars of this case. I do know the pepper spray works and would be MY defense. There is also NO danger to other people when the spray is used.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #95
134. "NO danger to other people "...Athsmatics might disagree. N/T
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
45. Perhaps he should have offered the dog a small child.
Armchair quarterbacking, ain't it great!
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
55. Very effective, but not "manly" enough for most gun toters.

Christ, I rode bikes for lots of years. Still do, but not as much. Worst that ever happen was having to outrun some dogs -- on hills that was tough. Poster above is also correct, one can use a bike and noise to scare off a dog. Pepper spray is a great idea, but not deadly enough for many members of "gun culture."

Now, the yahoos that liked to yell at me, blow horns, see how close they can come to you, etc., were a problem. Often, they had an NRA sticker or "insured by S&W" sign on the rear window. It was fun to catch the fools at the next stop light or store.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. why do you still live in Georgia?
Personally, I'm pretty good at reading a dog's body language and never had a problem weapon or not. You may or may not need a CCW for spray, check local laws.
Open carry of machetes is legal in Florida, a friend of my son does when he bikes or walks. Once a cop stopped and asked why. The reply was to deal with rednecks like the yahoos you described.
Before I enlisted, my girlfriend wanted by buy mace, but was told it was illegal for none LE in Wyoming at the time. Struck me as fucking stupid.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #55
88. Anti-gun zealot bullshit
"Now, the yahoos that liked to yell at me, blow horns, see how close they can come to you, etc., were a problem. Often, they had an NRA sticker or "insured by S&W" sign on the rear window."
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #88
110. Please remember it's not a lie if Hoyt makes it up
He's posted before that he says things for "effect" and to help make his point.

I have no doubt that he was able to read several bumper stickers on passing cars that endangered his life. And I bet none had ACLU stickers on them.
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DanTex Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
33. So how long until this dog-shooter becomes the next GOP presidential frontrunner?
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. did he say somthing about Mexicans, gay marriage, or abortion? LOL
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
114. from what I read
Perry's coyote was either in the latter stages of rabies or imaginary. I lean towards the latter. Unless of course, single coyotes in Texas are willing to take on black lab and a human. Florida and Wyoming? Not happening.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
44. 2 horribly stupid dog owners
First owner for letting the dog wander the streets starving, the other for also letting the dog roam. By the way, since we're hand-wringing over LAWS, supervision/leash/fence (as required BY LAW) apparently didn't apply to either owner.

"Abou admits Scooby was unleashed in the yard while he cleaned out his garage, in defiance of a Broward County ordinance"

Some people are just plain irresponsible and shouldn't own pets.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
51. Dog owner broke the law, bicyclist apparently broke none.
As a cyclist that carries, dogs are my principle reason why. You have not established that this was an unjustified shooting.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. You guys have excuses to carry everywhere. Christ.

I've ridden the most rural roads in America, and major thoroughfares. Places where confederate and "don't tread on me" flags are common. Had big assed, mean dogs chase me up long hills -- but never have I even considered making such a peaceful sport another fucking opportunity to carry or shoot a living thing.

Our country is becoming infested with violent, callous people. Sooner or later, gun laws are going to have to quit pandering to people who don't know when to leave the damn things at home.
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Lol.
I never tire of how angry you get when someone successfully defends themself with a gun. I know it pisses right in the face of your politics but geez, way to begrudge a guy not letting himself get mauled for your convenience.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. Takes a real brave guy to shoot an unarmed dog when there are other options.

But, fuck, some of you have even admitted you'd shoot an unarmed man clearly leaving the scene of a minor auto breakin. It's really quite disgusting, but exactly like the yahoos I remember.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. unarmed doberman?
an Irish Setter or a smaller dog, yeah. A Rottweiler, Doberman, that are bred and often trained to be aggressive to humans..........
That said, aggression is nurture, not nature. Often they imprint from the humans that are around them. Sometimes dogs can take a dislike to you because of your aggression towards it or it thinks you are a threat for some other reason.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. Is there anything you guys won't use as a rationale for packing? I've not seen it.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #68
90. Please post your address, there's bound to be
someone that could use a nice TV. Knowing that you won't "shoot an unarmed man clearly leaving the scene" will make it much safer...for them.
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We_Have_A_Problem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #68
101. Dogs are not unarmed.
They have very effective natural weapons.

You may wish to ignore this plain fact but dogs ARE predatory carnivores. They are quite capable of injuring or killing a human being.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #68
121. My second job was as a delivery driver for a dry cleaners ...
The guy that had the job before me had been attacked by a Doctor's German Shepard and he ended up in the hospital. After the attack he was terrified of all dogs and when he delivered dry cleaning to any home with a dog, he had a small billie club in his hand. Obviously many of the customers were upset when he threatened little fluffy with the club and they complained to the owner of the dry cleaners. Therefore I ended up with the job.

This incident occurred back in the 60s so the doctor was allowed to keep his aggressive dog and remained a customer of the dry cleaners. At least once a week I would deliver to his home and when I knocked on the door to the porch the dog was at a window of the house growing and barking. It was obvious that he would have loved to send me to the hospital.

One time I knocked and the lady of the house came to the porch door looking sleepy. I returned to my truck to get her dry cleaning and I heard a commotion behind me and turned. The dog had managed to gain access to the porch and had knocked the lady off her feet and was launching itself off the porch steps at me. I caught the dog in mid air at the level of my head with a sharp left hook on his nose and he feel to the ground. It was fortunate that I knew a little about boxing.

The lady regained her feet and yelled, "Down." It amazed me that the dog obeyed her. Perhaps my blow had stunned him.

I have no fear of dogs and am a good judge of whether or not a dog is aggressive. I can assure you that this animal was extremely aggressive. I was very lucky that day.

To call a dog "unarmed" is a very foolish statement.

Of course back in the 60s I wasn't carrying a firearm for self defense. I was under 21 at the time. Had I been, I would not necessarily shot the dog unless it had persisted in attacking me. I have no desire to end up in a hospital so today I would not hesitate to use my concealed firearm today if I was attacked by any dog of significant size such as a pit bull or a Rottweiler. While I have been confronted by a number of dogs who have been aggressive I do know techniques that work that enable me to avoid being attacked and fortunately they have worked well so far. Possibly the fact that I don't fear dogs makes the difference as I have heard that I dog can smell fear.

I do wish that dog owners would fence their dogs or walk them on a leash. It's sad that so many dog owners are so irresponsible.

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Oneka Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #68
126. unarmed dog?
There is no such thing, thousands of people get bit by dogs every year, some suffer debilitating and lifelong scars this real brave guy who shot this dog may have just saved himself from something like this.




I train dogs and i can tell you that there are other options when dealing with aggressive charging dogs. One can face away from the dog, fold your arms up across your chest, as to not allow for an easy hanging target, avoid making direct eye contact as that is a seen by a dog as a direct challenge. Often times this , and other techniques, work, but not always. I have spent decades working with dogs, learning to perceive body language,and guageing temperment, and some dogs still catch me unawares, it happens.

When i take on the training of a dog, i end up working with the owner as much as he dog itself, and i can tell you from experience that most owners have no idea how to deal with a charging dog without making the dog act even more aggressive.

Having a firearm is just another tool to protect oneself from an attacking dog, and it can save your life.
An attacking dog is no joke, if it manages to get its k9s on your neck or groin area it can easily sever either your juglar vein, or femoral artery and you can bleed out in minutes.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. I have scars. So no, it is not an 'excuse', it is a 'reason'.
Just because your life has been all sweetness and light, doesn't mean everyone else has.

And some of us prepare for the worst. You may not. That's your choice.

I am neither violent, nor callous, and I carry, whenever legal, or acceptable to the people upon who's property I am on. I live by the non-aggression principle. Always will.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #60
72. A good shot of water from a water bottle will usually do the trick. Add some clorox if you must.

Learn to ride faster -- but remember, big dogs like to attack front wheel. But dang, shooting dog that is not rabid is pretty lame. So is carrying a gun while biking. You can make a car load of yahoos run away by taking off your helmet and front wheel to use as a clubs if you have to.

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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. don't know the facts other than
what is said. Taking the front wheel off takes too much time. Around here, the problem is meth heads. Garden variety rednecks are relatively harmless.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. Maybe if you guys didn't have your guns to rely on, you'd find better ways to handle the situations

you fear.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #77
92. I don't have to.
Threat -> Response.

Having the firearm gives me a greater range of potential responses to various threats, than not having one. I don't draw my gun just because someone's toy fucking poodle looked at me funny. It is something to be utilized whem my LIFE is in danger. Nothing less.

You seem to like passing judgment on people who carry, in various negative ways. That's fine, shows you for what you are. You are free not to carry, that's fine. But don't tell me that I am doing something wrong, when you have no fucking clue, and no responsibility whatsoever for my safety.
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. Yeah, a dude flailing around with a wheel in one hand and a bike helmet in the other is like
kryptonite for those redneck yahoos. Especially if he's wearing those tight little shorts and the clippy-cloppy shoes. Heck, if I saw that coming at me I wouldn't stop running till next week (and I'm not even a yahoo)... :rofl:
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #72
91. All stupid shit that doesn't work.
Try riding fast to get away from a pissed off dog when forward means into cross traffic at a light. I didn't even have time to get off the bike, and put the bike between myself and the dog.

I really would have preferred to have a firearm, rather than a bicycle pump that day.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #72
96. Take off your front wheel....LOL....
now that's funny, disable you quickest way of escape.



And how many rodies do you know that are willing to "tote" around an extra bottle of bleach water for hosing down dogs? A: None
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #96
129. Just imagine screwing up which bottle held which mixture....
:spray: :puke:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. Deleted message
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
82. So the dog owner admits he violated the Broward County ordinance
"He told us the dog attacked him and he feared for his life," said Engle. "The dog was not on a leash, but we are still looking at what exactly happened."

By ordinance in Broward County, dogs that are outdoors must remain under direct, physical control of a person using a leash, cord or chain or be kept behind a fence.

Abou, 24, acknowledged that his dog had been playing in the front yard without a leash while the family was preparing its Thanksgiving meal.

He said most of the residents in his Whispering Pines cul-de-sac neighborhood typically allow their dogs to roam free with no problems. He described his dog as a lovable and friendly pooch who was great with small children.


Sounds like the cops need to ticket every dog owner who "typically allow their dogs to roam free with no problems". And if the residents complain the cops can say "Your neighbors dog was killed because he wasn't restrained, yours could be next. Would you rather have a ticket or a dead dog?"
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jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
99. Personally...
I carry a water pistol with household ammonia for such eventualities. Of course I probably have something a wee bit more lethal at the time, too.

The dog's owner should have kept the Doberman under control. He didn't live up to his part of the bargain and the dog suffered as a consequence.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #99
120. The dog almost always pays for the owner's stupidity NT
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Remmah2 Donating Member (971 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #120
135. Just like the dog that runs into the street and gets hit.
The driver gets cussed out by the owner for not watching out.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
138. The biker couldn't just yell to the guy in the house? This sounds totally unnecessary. nt
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