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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-23-11 08:38 PM Original message |
Excellent example of why police need to be check out anyone suspected of carrying a gun. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-23-11 10:34 PM Response to Original message |
1. That is a well over the top, even for you |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-23-11 10:48 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. That's hardly the way I look at it. Anyone with a gun, sword, spear, grenade, etc., is a potential |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-23-11 11:28 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. You are advocating violation of the Fourth Amendment on a massive scale. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-23-11 11:43 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. While clearly the net effect of this would have racial overtones, at least he is honest |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:13 AM Response to Reply #6 |
11. "Racial overtones" -- where I live it's the bigoted white guys who carry guns most often. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:31 AM Response to Reply #11 |
14. Still will not admit your mistake... |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:40 AM Response to Reply #14 |
19. Again, are you saying some toters will shoot someone unarmed trying to ensure compliance with laws? |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:44 AM Response to Reply #19 |
20. I am saying that criminals who are illegally carrying guns could shoot someone following your bad |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 02:07 PM Response to Reply #19 |
34. Why don't you give us an example of same, instead of him proving a negative. |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:41 PM Response to Reply #19 |
67. Since your "trying to ensure compliance with laws" is actually assault and battery- Yes |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:34 AM Response to Reply #11 |
16. How would you know? You are a total amateur and cannot read someone |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:37 AM Response to Reply #16 |
18. So, you are a "professional" gunner? |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:45 AM Response to Reply #18 |
21. I have carried for a very long time. I know how to do it right |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 02:00 PM Response to Reply #21 |
32. Every gunner I've ever met thought they were god's gift to safety. Even ones who shoot an innocent |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 02:29 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. So, how many of 80,000,000 "gunners" are "god's gift to safety?" |
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We_Have_A_Problem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 02:34 PM Response to Reply #32 |
36. And you know a lot of these people do you? |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 03:17 PM Response to Reply #36 |
39. Happens more than once every day. And we don't even get reports of gunners using their weapons for |
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We_Have_A_Problem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 03:24 PM Response to Reply #39 |
40. You said you know these people. |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 06:09 PM Response to Reply #40 |
41. No I didn't lie. As I've posted before, I've had permit holders pull a gun on me more than once. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:01 PM Response to Reply #41 |
47. Why did they do that? |
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rl6214 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:29 PM Response to Reply #47 |
51. Don't you know? |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:38 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. I wrote up a such a scenario for him in post #92 |
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We_Have_A_Problem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 10:58 AM Response to Reply #41 |
85. Apparently.... |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 04:41 PM Response to Reply #41 |
88. Did you detain them for this? |
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oneshooter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 06:35 PM Response to Reply #88 |
90. Of course he didn't. Hoyt talks a good fight but is probably hiding in his Mothers basement |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 03:06 PM Response to Reply #32 |
38. Ahh, but Hoyt, *you're* a gun owner. Do you believe you store your guns safely? n/t |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 02:05 PM Response to Reply #11 |
33. So you call the cops on these carriers, or attempt to detain them, right? |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:17 AM Response to Reply #4 |
13. I definitely do not advocate those things. However, your guns are not anywhere near the same thing. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:32 AM Response to Reply #13 |
15. Effectively you do, complete with the advice for civilians to detain those they think are carrying |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:36 AM Response to Reply #15 |
17. Are you saying gunners will shoot people doing their civic duty to ensure compliance with laws? |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:48 AM Response to Reply #17 |
22. No I am saying that if people are stupid enough to follow your bad advice |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 12:08 PM Response to Reply #17 |
30. Deleted message |
friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 03:01 PM Response to Reply #17 |
37. You are advocating false arrest and/or assault. That's not 'civic duty'- They're crimes. |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 06:10 PM Response to Reply #37 |
42. How can it be false arrest until you've seen their permit? |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:00 PM Response to Reply #42 |
46. Civilians have no authority do demand documents in public |
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gejohnston (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:51 PM Response to Reply #42 |
54. As I understand it |
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oneshooter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 10:15 AM Response to Reply #13 |
25. Hoyt, you and others have spoke often of the "impact on society " |
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oneshooter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 07:15 AM Response to Reply #25 |
80. Talk about rude anti-gun people. Hoyt was asked a simple question |
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abogado (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 12:54 PM Response to Reply #13 |
31. How much force are you willing to expend to 'detain' someone you think might be armed? |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 06:13 PM Response to Reply #31 |
43. Nope, I don't farm it out. If you are going to carry, citizens need to make sure you are "legal." |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:02 PM Response to Reply #43 |
48. Your stats are bogus since it does not include law enforcement |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:03 PM Response to Reply #48 |
56. Well, why don't you add a percent or two if you feel LE should be included in citizens totin tally. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:22 PM Response to Reply #56 |
58. You have no effective way to know if someone is carrying, if they are LEO related...give it up |
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We_Have_A_Problem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 11:02 AM Response to Reply #43 |
86. I dont know if you realize this... |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-23-11 11:36 PM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Face up to your mistake |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:15 AM Response to Reply #5 |
12. Sorry, PP, guns in public are a problem waiting to happen. Those packing need to be checked for |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:55 AM Response to Reply #12 |
23. By civilians? That is what you have suggested |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 06:14 PM Response to Reply #23 |
44. Whatever it takes. I would prefer they wait for police to arrive. But gunners think they are Elite |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:17 PM Response to Reply #44 |
49. You have no authority to challenge, let alone detain |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:02 PM Response to Reply #49 |
55. One does like in the OP -- calls police. If they arrive in time great. Then, you try to reason |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:19 PM Response to Reply #55 |
57. Hard for you to do in handcuffs... |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:38 PM Response to Reply #57 |
63. They also tend to dislike false police reports, so there's that... |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:47 PM Response to Reply #63 |
72. How much jail time can I get? SS ain't gonna cover room and board. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 10:11 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. Min 1 year for felonies, guess would be 10. Disbarred, loss of firearms and voting rights. |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 05:59 AM Response to Reply #73 |
77. That ought to be penalty for carrying guns in public. |
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jmg257 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 07:32 AM Response to Reply #77 |
82. But it isn't is it? So save yourself some effort (and maybe some bruises), |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 09:17 AM Response to Reply #77 |
84. It can be if being carried illegally...legally there is not penalty |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:34 PM Response to Reply #55 |
61. Hoyt, it took you less than 24 hours to change your tune. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:40 PM Response to Reply #61 |
66. He still will not admit it... |
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oneshooter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:06 PM Response to Reply #66 |
68. I tend to be more traditional, metal. n/t |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:47 PM Response to Reply #68 |
71. You would. |
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oneshooter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 07:21 AM Response to Reply #71 |
81. I asked you a simple question in Post #58. I was polite and am really looking for an answer. n/t |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:46 PM Response to Reply #61 |
70. Whatever it takes to slow proliferation of guns in public. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 10:11 PM Response to Reply #70 |
74. Have you considered a legal, liberal, and progressive approach instead of illegal actions? |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 01:30 AM Response to Reply #70 |
76. It's not as if *you'll* do what you have advocated others do, is it? |
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oneshooter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:03 AM Response to Reply #1 |
7. Well now you have raised the bar for him "dumbest thing you have ever suggested " |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 06:15 PM Response to Reply #7 |
45. Not a "dumb" as strapping a gun or two on before going to Chuck E Cheeze or church. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:19 PM Response to Reply #45 |
50. Your approach risks lives and livelihoods...for nothing. Not even you are that stupid. |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:34 PM Response to Reply #50 |
60. Your "public packing approach" risks lives, and livelihoods, too. Probably more so. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:38 PM Response to Reply #60 |
64. Your approach causes direct, immediate and certain consequences to the civilian illegaly playing cop |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 06:01 AM Response to Reply #64 |
78. I still can't believe you guys would shoot unarmed person trying to make sure man with gun is legal. |
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jmg257 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 06:59 AM Response to Reply #78 |
79. I still can't believe you would become a criminal & try to illegally detain an innocent person. |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 04:57 PM Response to Reply #79 |
89. No chance of him becoming a criminal by doing that. His diktats are for *others*, not him. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 09:16 AM Response to Reply #78 |
83. A criminal might....a legal person could, but most likely would think of the judgement against you |
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We_Have_A_Problem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-25-11 11:07 AM Response to Reply #78 |
87. I wouldn't shoot someone attempting to illegally detain me... |
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oneshooter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:35 PM Response to Reply #50 |
62. Oh, but I bet he is. n/t |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:39 PM Response to Reply #62 |
65. Thinking I may have to spend more time in Pasadena |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-23-11 11:20 PM Response to Original message |
3. Are you a former employee of the Ministerium für Staatssicherheit? n/t |
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jeepnstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:37 AM Response to Original message |
8. Are you insane? |
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pipoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:55 AM Response to Original message |
9. LOL |
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jmg257 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:21 AM Response to Original message |
10. Wow - I bet lawyers love the smell of False Arrest in the morning...keep those lawsuits a-coming! |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:58 AM Response to Reply #10 |
24. This brings up the ethical issue...is it fair to impoverish his family over his dumb ass mistakes? |
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oneshooter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 10:18 AM Response to Reply #24 |
26. You don't. If his decision effects his family badly, that is the result of |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 10:42 AM Response to Original message |
27. You are actually advocating an illegal act: kidnapping. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 10:45 AM Response to Reply #27 |
28. Which he refuses to recognize or acknowledge |
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We_Have_A_Problem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 10:49 AM Response to Original message |
29. Stopping someone for a legal act.... |
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rl6214 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 07:45 PM Response to Original message |
53. "every citizen should report anyone carrying a gun in public -- Maybe even hold them until police ar |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 08:23 PM Response to Reply #53 |
59. Dumbest thing he has posted to date |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 09:07 PM Response to Reply #59 |
69. It's not the first time prohibitionists have advocated extralegal harassment here |
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krispos42 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-24-11 10:22 PM Response to Original message |
75. Sure... charge towards the guy with the gun prominately displayed on his hip... |
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