Shocking news: Keeping violent offenders in jail works.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

Now, "...prisoners were serving 80 percent of their sentences."

From Florida: http://www2.tbo.com/news/opinion/2011/aug/22/meopino1-tough-crime-laws-work-ar-251809/

Is anyone really surprised here?


I like the "keep them locked up" concept, also the open carry issue is mentioned at the end of the article. I've got my own thoughts but what are yours?

[safeinOhio]

1. Now try getting everyone to vote for

raising taxes, a whole lot, as it cost as much as tuition at an Ivy league school to keep someone in jail for a year. Me, I'm willing to pay more. How about you?

[dmallind]

2. Or we could let some of the nonviolent ones out

If jsils don't have room to keep armed robbers and gangbangers, it may very well be worth building more, but call me crazy it may be worth using other punishmennts for people who had a few beers before driving home, or missed a few child support payments or smoked some pot first to make room

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

4. I've said that for years.

Locking up non-violent non-repeat offenders serves no purpose and only burdens society.

[safeinOhio]

6. You are talking about jails and not prisons.

Jails are for short term DUIs and child support. Prison are for felons. Most prisons are full of violent offenders and are more expensive than jails. You could reduce prisons by letting go all the drug dealers, but not the users. Most DUI people in prison have 4 or 5 convictions or have killed others while driving drunk.

Still, would you and others be ok with paying about a grand more in taxes every year to keep the violent ones in prison? The devil is always in the details.

[gejohnston]

3. do that plus

legalize drugs, pardon or commute ones in for using or possessing. That would make more than enough room for those who should be there. The added bonus is that we would curbing much of our gang and gun violence in the process.

[SteveM]

14. Not keep "someone," but pay the necessary minimum to keep volent thugs in.

[iverglas]

5. hell, keep them locked up until they die

After all, once they dunnit -- even if all they done was try to take your stuff -- they forfeited their rights, right?


From the article:

But in contrast to the chaos taking place around the globe, the United States criminal justice system, however imperfect, is looking pretty good, as is its support of gun rights.

"Chaos taking place around the globe" ... hmm. Is that a reference to Somalia? The uprisings against dictatorships? Why would anyone in the US compare the US to any of that? Riots in the UK? Hell, maybe some people just remember the tree of liberty, blah blah.

Oh yeah, I see, that was it:

The reason is simple. As veteran police officers know, a relatively small group of criminals is responsible for the majority of offenses. Keeping as many of that group as possible behind bars is the surest way to protect law-abiding citizens.

It's a lesson that Europe doesn't seem to have learned. In Great Britain, gangs of youth ran wild for days, beating bystanders and burning homes, stores and cars.

(But hmm: "Recently 'flash mobs' in some large cities have looted stores or beaten bystanders.")

Ah yes. The UK doesn't seem to have learned that they should lock up their excluded, alienated youth BEFORE THEY COMMIT CRIMES. I trust Florida will learn from that experience.

Malcolm also points out how unarmed British citizens were virtually helpless as the thugs marauded through the streets, stealing merchandise and assaulting witnesses. Handguns are banned in the Great Britain, and citizens who defend themselves or their property are often punished. She described how a British farmer once was sentenced to life in prison — later reduced to five years — for killing a burglar and wounding another intruder with a shotgun. It was the seventh break-in at his rural home.

This could never happen in Florida ...

Well, I would hope for the sake of Floridians that this isn't true, but I'm afraid it probably is. If a mentally disturbed individual motivated by vicious bigoted hatred for a particular ethnic group planned and carried out the killing of a teenaged thief -- by shooting him in the back -- Floridians might very well give him a medal rather than a prison sentence. If the level of stupidity and ignorance we see from this editorial writer is any indication.

My thoughts? Ensuring that any kind of convicted criminal has an opportunity to integrate into society upon release will go a whole lot farther to enhancing public safety than pretending that keeping them in prison longer will. (Hell, providing that opportunity before people commit crimes might even be useful.)

Here's how it's done, eh, Florida?

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-04-05/justice/bridge.sex.offenders_1_sexual-offenders-parks-and-other-places-fewer-places?_s=PM:LAW

The Florida Department of Corrections says there are fewer and fewer places in Miami-Dade County where sex offenders can live because the county has some of the strongest restrictions against this kind of criminal in the country.

Florida's solution: house the convicted felons under a bridge that forms one part of the causeway.

The Julia Tuttle Causeway, which links Miami to Miami Beach, offers no running water, no electricity and little protection from nasty weather. It's not an ideal solution, Department of Corrections Officials told CNN, but at least the state knows where the sex offenders are.

Build more bridges!


Offenders, violent or otherwise, really are going to get out eventually. The recidivism problem may have been delayed, but releases will obviously catch up to incarcerations before too long. This looks like a nice little blip, to me.

Now, doing something to keep firearms out of the hands of future and former violent criminals ... gosh, now there's an idea.

[safeinOhio]

7. Yup,

No problem with spending thousands more in taxes to keep em in jail, but don't you dare charge five bucks to run a background check on a private sale.

The devil is in the details.

[iverglas]

8. in a nutshell

;)

[Atypical Liberal]

10. A little bit different, don't you think?

No problem with spending thousands more in taxes to keep em in jail, but don't you dare charge five bucks to run a background check on a private sale.

Paying to house a prisoner costs a bit of money.

A query to an electronic database costs virtually nothing.

[iverglas]

11. I think that was the poster's point ;)

It was in response to my suggestion that taking action that can reasonably be expected to reduce harm can be more effective than cleaning up after it -- and also cheaper.

Requiring cheap background checks for all private sales is one example of the former.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. It will be difficult...

...to keep released violent offenders from getting guns through black-market sources or theft. It will be easier to keep guns out of prison and repeat violent offenders in. "Two strikes and you're in" works for me.

1 rape + 1 murder = life with no parole.

1 robbery + 1 assault = life with no parole.

There should only be two ways out of a life sentence:
- your death
- a pardon

...that's it.

[iverglas]

12. state the obvious much?

It will be difficult...
...to keep released violent offenders from getting guns through black-market sources or theft.

To which I had already replied in the post you "replied" to:

Now, doing something to keep firearms out of the hands of future and former violent criminals ... gosh, now there's an idea.

For the rest of it ... once again, hard to distinguish from stuff spouted by the right wing. The right wing just loves paying taxes, of course, so the $1 spent on these proposals will be $1 cut from ... what, overseas military expeditions?

:eyes:

You know what's the single most effective $1 spent to reduce crime rates?

The one spent on early childhood education, that's what.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

15. doing something

"...to keep firearms out of the hands of future and former violent criminals..."

I discussed convicted violent criminals, there are no guns in prison.

If you'll be good enough to point out the future violent criminals, we handle them as well. What's that??? Your time machine is in the shop??

I guess you'd be done now. ;)

[SteveM]

13. I think he exaggerates some stuff...

He doesn't really show how concealed-carry lowered the crime rate, only sweepingly mentions it in his last paragraph. There is not enough here (or elsewhere) to show that concealed-carry has caused a decrease in crime (something controller/banners here insist is what pro-2A folks here generally believe). That may be proven with better studies later, but we can be sure of this: No one has shown that the intellectually dishonest bumper strip "more guns = more crime" is true.

He is also ambivalent about the jailing of too many non-violent drug offenders. He really should see that filling the jails in support of the corrupt and expensive W.O.D. does not help, but only hinders efforts to lower crime. I suspect he has a pro-W.O.D. agenda, here. He is correct in pointing to a phenomenon ignored by most politicos (left & right), that most violent crime is committed by a relative few repeat-offenders who have been treated with kid gloves. Now that these thugs are being sent up for a SOLID 80 % of their sentence, it is having a good effect on society's crime rate. This should be continued, with even greater efforts to keep tabs of thugs and violent crims when they get out and commit more violent crime.

He doesn't mention at all the costs of this huge capital outlaw, which is still "necessary" to support the W.O.D. Drugs should be legalized and regulated so we can release low-risk offenders. The space can be used for violent repeat offenders, and keep costs down.

[iverglas]

16. that's pretty funny

There is not enough here (or elsewhere) to show that concealed-carry has caused a decrease in crime (something controller/banners here insist is what pro-2A folks here generally believe).

I mean, in a funny-odd kinda way, of course, since the only going-on-and-on about the thing in question actually comes from the other side of the aisle.


That may be proven with better studies later, but we can be sure of this: No one has shown that the intellectually dishonest bumper strip "more guns = more crime" is true.

The fact that super-super-saturating one particular society that is already super-saturated in the things ... we're talking the USofA here ... doesn't appear to demonstrably affect crime rates is hardly a good argument.

[SteveM]

17. Actually the obvious deception by banners isn't funny. It's boring...

"I mean, in a funny-odd kinda way, of course, since the only going-on-and-on about the thing in question actually comes from the other side of the aisle."

Since Controller/banners and prohibitionists have worked so long and so hard to create that Wicker Man, you now think no one will notice when you tow it into the 2A defender's front yard and run away, tee-heeing like high school pranksters? That's like letting a mud-splattering hippo fart, then pointing to someone else in the room. Really. You need to keep up with your own game plan; you know, that one which staples to: "Give guns to EVERYBODY!" or "Give guns to KIDS IN SCHOOL!" and other less-than-perfumed leavings.

"The fact that super-super-saturating one particular society that is already super-saturated in the things ... we're talking the USofA here ... doesn't appear to demonstrably affect crime rates is hardly a good argument."

It's a vision thing. Read the statement again. Oh, I'll do it for you: "No one has shown that the intellectually dishonest bumper strip 'more guns = more crime' is true."

Good enough to support the statement, but not your burning man, of course.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

18. O/T side note:

"...super-super-saturating..."

On Earth in general there's about one privately held firearm for every 12 people. Here in the US there's about one firearm for every 1.5 persons. Or there's two guns for every three people... which is just about right since someone needs to reload. ;)




"...super-saturated in the things ... we're talking the USofA here..."

I thought what Bill Maher had to say about the US was a bit funny. Something like... 'People have searched and experimented for years for the perfect burger topping. Cheese, onion, pickle... here in the US we've discovered that the best thing to put on top of a burger is.....

.....drum roll....



....another burger! :)

[iverglas]

20. also OT

but I just have to mention how every time I see your username I read it as:

discount_my_sarcasm

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

21. Good advice!

The only sarcasm that counts is your own. ;)

[SteveM]

22. I flashed on "super-sizing" at first. Then I thought about McDonalds.

x(

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

24. McDonalds...

...we're not talking Otis here... we're talking burgers :)

[iverglas]

19. put your finger on your monitor,

follow the dotted line, and then use it to help you read the words in order.

You said, and I quoted you saying, and responded to you saying:

There is not enough here (or elsewhere) to show that concealed-carry has caused a decrease in crime (something controller/banners here insist is what pro-2A folks here generally believe).

with underlining to help you not lose your place.

I don't know of anyone insisting that gun militants generally believe that allowing the toting of firearms will cause a decrease in crime.

I do know that I've seen one hell of a hell of a lot of gun-militant rhetoric insisting that people toting guns will cause a decrease in crime.

So if anybody did insist that this was what gun militants believe, they'd have a deep well of evidence to draw from.

Is that clearer now? It was clear the first time, but maybe it's clearer now.


"No one has shown that the intellectually dishonest bumper strip 'more guns = more crime' is true."

I think I disposed of that one already. Yes, I did.

When your outhouse is already full of poop, doubling the amount isn't going to worsen the smell.

But there actually was a point at which it wasn't full of poop, and the smell could have been kept down by not adding any more.

[SteveM]

23. Check your backyard: Wickerman is back, next to your outhouse...

"When your outhouse is already full of poop, doubling the amount isn't going to worsen the smell."

Then please get your shovel; it ain't mine.

[WAFS]

25. Violent offenders belong in jail.

Non-violent ones do not. Keep the psychopaths locked up and let the rest go free.