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Guns remain prohibited at (Iowa State) fairgrounds

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:11 PM
Original message
Guns remain prohibited at (Iowa State) fairgrounds
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110810/NEWS0...

An Iowa weapons permit allows a citizen to carry a firearm - but not at the Iowa State Fair.

Iowa State Patrol Capt. Gary Nieuwsma says the permits do not apply at the fairgrounds.

<snip>

One person wrote on the website: "I really hope the authorities will be looking for guns this year. With all you posting about bringing your guns I am really scared to go this year."

Another person writes: "Despite the 'rules' of the Fairgrounds, despite what we all know happens when a gun is fired into a crowd of people, despite the pleas of mothers BEGGING for a gun free fair, despite the fact that everyone who has a permit to carry SHOULD KNOW BETTER than to take a gun to the fair some are hell bent on carrying a gun at the fair. ... The only responsible thing to do to prevent you who cannot eat a corndog without your gun from ruining the fair for the majority of residents is to install metal detectors to KEEP YOU OUT!"

<more>

backlash

yup
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dtexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good. Throw those found carrying there into prison for good, long sentences.
And if it takes metal detectors, install the suckers.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. AFAIK, concealed carry is not permitted at the Minnesota State Fair
either.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. It may be legal, depending on if the fairgrounds are public or private property....
and the legal contract with the fair operators.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/minnesota.pdf
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. The Minnesota State Fairgrounds are privately owned, and the .
fair is a commercial operation. This has all been hashed out before, beginning in 2003. And every year, the CCW folks argue the same point. And every year the No Firearms signs go up. You can't carry at the State Fair, unless you're a cop.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Fair enough, pun intended. n/t
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Oneka Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. The CCW folks argue the same point?
just curious what point they argue, not trying to be snarky here either, i'm just ignorant to what CCW folks say about the signs at the MN fair.

In reading the statute, i can't find anyplace that gives the Fair the authority to enforce the no carry signs.

Of particular note, is section 4 defining a private establishment as a, building or structure, the Fair has many structures but is primarily an outdoor event.

Not haveing been at the MN fair is several years, i am curious as to how they deal with the, inside the fair, parking facilities, do they allow CCW in a car as the car makes it's way to a parking spot?

Below are the most relevant portions of the MN carry law that i could find. If you are aware of other statutes that cover this issue
please throw up a link.

"Subd. 17.Posting; trespass.

(a) A person carrying a firearm on or about his or her person or clothes under a permit or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that the operator of the establishment or its agent has made a reasonable request that firearms not be brought into the establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person who fails to leave when so requested is guilty of a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this subdivision is not subject to forfeiture.

(b) As used in this subdivision, the terms in this paragraph have the meanings given.

(1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the following circumstances:

(i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign at every entrance to the establishment containing the following language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR) BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES."; or

(ii) the requester or the requester's agent personally informs the person that guns are prohibited in the premises and demands compliance.

(2) "Prominently" means readily visible and within four feet laterally of the entrance with the bottom of the sign at a height of four to six feet above the floor.

(3) "Conspicuous" means lettering in black arial typeface at least 1-1/2 inches in height against a bright contrasting background that is at least 187 square inches in area.

(4) "Private establishment" means a building, structure, or portion thereof that is owned, leased, controlled, or operated by a nongovernmental entity for a nongovernmental purpose.

(c) The owner or operator of a private establishment may not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a parking facility or parking area.

(d) This subdivision does not apply to private residences. The lawful possessor of a private residence may prohibit firearms, and provide notice thereof, in any lawful manner.

(e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.

(f) Notwithstanding any inconsistent provisions in section 609.605, this subdivision sets forth the exclusive criteria to notify a permit holder when otherwise lawful firearm possession is not allowed in a private establishment and sets forth the exclusive penalty for such activity.

(g) This subdivision does not apply to:

(1) an active licensed peace officer; or

(2) a security guard acting in the course and scope of employment.
Subd. 18.Employers; public colleges and universities.

(a) An employer, whether public or private, may establish policies that restrict the carry or possession of firearms by its employees while acting in the course and scope of employment. Employment related civil sanctions may be invoked for a violation.

(b) A public postsecondary institution regulated under chapter 136F or 137 may establish policies that restrict the carry or possession of firearms by its students while on the institution's property. Academic sanctions may be invoked for a violation.

(c) Notwithstanding paragraphs (a) and (b), an employer or a postsecondary institution may not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a parking facility or parking area."
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am wondering what state laws allow a gun ban at the fair.
Is it private property, or state property?

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/iowa.pdf

"371-2.5 Public SafetyWeapons. (State Fair Grounds)
The carrying or possession by any person other than a peace officer of any weapon, such as a dirk, dagger, hunting knife, buck knife, switch blade, or any knife with a blade of three inches in length or longer, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, pellet or BB gun, blackjack, billy club or any other weapon is prohibited on the fairgrounds unless authorized by the board. Failure to comply with this rule shall be cause for expulsion from the fairgrounds or being charged under Iowa Code chapter 724. Kitchen knives and others purchased at the fair must be wrapped and not concealed."

And, we behold, it's prohibited by state law... so be it. Gotta love that last sentance. Clear as mud, eh?

I hope they provide ample security to make up for that infringement... but I doubt it, if the Wisconsin State fair was any example.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Oops, wrong place. n/t
Edited on Wed Aug-10-11 02:38 PM by PavePusher
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Same for WV state fair....I'll be there this weekend with my KPB.
I'll leave the SD pistol locked in the Xterra. Don't mind so much since I always hit the "rides" with my kids. I suppose sometimes it's a chance you gotta take.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Check your local and state laws.
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Will this do anything to deter criminals?
An Iowa weapons permit allows a citizen to carry a firearm - but not at the Iowa State Fair.

Iowa State Patrol Capt. Gary Nieuwsma says the permits do not apply at the fairgrounds.


That's great. So the people least likely to commit crime will continue to obey the law and leave their firearms at home.

Does anyone think criminals will?

So, once again, we will have an environment full of defenseless law-abiding people, while the criminals continue to do what they want. Sounds fair.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yes - it will keep the vigilante gun toters out of the fair
if not - they go to jail

yup
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Where did "vigilantee" come into this?
Do you even think before you hit the keyboard.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Rhetorical question, right?
;-)
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Might as well be.
JPAK never bothers to answer these -
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. S/He types with her/his forehead. n/t
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. But what about criminals?
Will this do anything to deter criminals from carrying firearms? Do you think they will comply with the law?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. If they bring a gun to the fair, they are criminals
yup
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Tjhey're also criminals if they exceeded the speed limit going to the fair
Let's keep them out, too!




How about career criminals? People with a police record of arrests and convictions for, say, assault and/or robbery?
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. You're avoiding my question.
What is going to keep out criminals, who by definition don't obey laws, from bringing guns into the fair no matter what?

I'm not talking about people who become criminals by bringing a gun to the fair. I'm talking about existing criminals who already have a disregard for firearm laws. How is this going to affect them, if at all?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. What keeps the criminal gun toters out of the fair? nt
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Magical signs
Powered by unicorn farts and leprechaun urine.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. Legal at the TX state fair (but not the cotton bowl).
Edited on Wed Aug-10-11 03:00 PM by X_Digger
http://www.bigtex.com/sft/guestinfo/FAQs.asp

What about concealed handguns?
A person holding a valid Texas Concealed Handgun License (or valid CHL from a reciprocating state) is permitted to enter onto State Fair property with his/her concealed handgun; provided, however, that CHL holders will not be permitted to carry their concealed handgun inside the Cotton Bowl Stadium, a facility defined under Texas Penal Code 46.035 as "the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place."


One edit: Jpak, your comment makes no sense, even for you. It has never been legal for Iowans to carry concealed at the state fair, so this represents no change from the same position as before. In order for their to be a 'backlash', something would have to have changed.

I don't know why I bother, but this just struck me as a rather ignorant statement from you.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
18.  But only one out of many! n/t
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. Holy Cow, you're on a roll! 1st a building, now a whole fairground!
Edited on Wed Aug-10-11 05:06 PM by DonP
You really have that whole backlash thing rolling now!

Last week you (the metaphorical you, the real you didn't actually do shit) got guns banned in a whole building in Wisconsin, this week an entire fairground in Iowa. Pretty soon you'll keep that Maine legislator out of the state house, then you'll really have something to celebrate.

Any minute I expect the NRA to come begging for mercy from you and the GOP/Brady bunch.

(Which might be impressive ... if Iowa hadn't of just legalized shall issue and increased the number of carriers in the state by a few hundred percent.)

Again - posting things (your only real gun control related activity) that make you and your failed control arguments look even more pathetic and ineffectual. Keep up the good work.
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
25. If It Was A Democratic Function, Rather Than A Republican Function....
....this thread would have over 300 posts. Our resident Gun Enthusiasts would be having a wild-eyed fit about there not being lots and lots of guns in close proximity to Democratic politicians. Since Republicans are currently involved in Iowa, it's not that big a deal. Got to protect those who vote the proper way on gun issues---right, guys? Those dead-eyed, slack-jawed open carriers who turned up near Obama campaign functions became instant folk heroes to the gun militancy movement, fiercely defended here in the DU Gungeon. Pretty sad.....
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Rock on, culture warrior
Someone, somewhere, sometime-- might pay attention to you.

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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. nope... n/t
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I Get Plenty Of Attention.

See, I don't spend 99% of my time fixated on a single political issue. Thanks for playing, though; try addressing the point I've made next time, it's more fun that way....
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Seagull poster
Fly in, drop unsubstantiated bird shit, fly away..

If your post had any actual value, perhaps people would deem it worthy of thoughtful comment.
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