Ask about guns to keep your children safe

[jpak]

http://news.consumerreports.org/baby/2011/06/ask-about-guns-to-keep-your-children-safe.html

Are your children visiting homes where there are unlocked guns?

<snip>

PAX, The Center to Prevent Youth Violence, wants you to ask one other question: does the other family have a gun in their home?

Nationally, 32.6 percent of adults reported that firearms were kept in and around their homes, according to a 2002 survey done by the American Association of Pediatrics. Among respondents who reported having children or youths, the prevalence of unlocked and loaded household firearms ranged from 1 percent in Massachusetts to 13.4 percent in Alabama.

To alert families to the danger of unlocked and loaded household firearms, PAX is renewing its ASK (Asking Saves Kids) campaign on the first day of summer, June 21, to encourage parents to find out whether their child’s friends have guns in their home before sending them for a play date.

<more>

[michreject]

1. I'd never say one way or another

It's none of their business.

[hlthe2b]

5. You'd have no problem sending your young children....

to a home with unsecured guns in the house?

[michreject]

6. I don't give it any thought nt

[hlthe2b]

8. there's a recipe for tragedy...

How many parents would like to get that choice back again--after it is too late... Sad, very sad.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rl6214]

14. Got your little jab in there "gun porn crowd"

zoeiswrong

[michreject]

35. I think

Therefore I am.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. Most of us train our kids early about guns

its easy enough to do. Lots of good material to help too. (google the Eddie the Eagle program)

[hlthe2b]

29. I'd hope so, your colleague above underscores an apathy...

that most of the world would find abhorrent.

[michreject]

33. I don't have a irrational fear of guns

I would be more concerned about swimming pools and partying parents.

[hlthe2b]

2. How long before some state legislature...

with NRA-bought and paid for legislators, tries to outlaw even parents asking the question (as they've tried to do with pediatricians)....:shrug:

[michreject]

4. I won't tolerate that question from my DR.

and I respect him way more that a politician.

[hlthe2b]

7. You can refuse to answer....

Yet, some think removing constitutional freedom of speech--to outlaw the question even being posed by a treating pediatrician looking out for their patient-- is the best way of defending ones own second amendment.... Very selective concerns there.

[petronius]

22. You've missed some interminably long discussions on that FL law, but

I'll revisit a bit of it: the trigger for the law was a physician who dropped a patient who (IIRC) did refuse to answer, so your solution really isn't. Also, physicians are not barred by the law from distributing any and all safety-related information they want to patients; the info-limitation is one-way only.

I think we all agree that the law is a stupid response to a stupid situation, but I was troubled that I never heard a single opponent of the law decry the initial act - dismissing a patient over a non-medical social/political issue. That supports my conclusion that (as silly as it is) the law is in the better interests of patients than not having it.

As for freedom of speech, I suspect that all of the BoR is more constrained and subject to limitation in a licensed, commercial, environment than it would be otherwise (kind of like pharmacists shouldn't get to 'practice their religion' by deciding what not to dispense). But if that's truly an issue here the courts will get it sooner rather than later...

[hlthe2b]

27. Sorry, but there is no justification from restricting 1st amendment

rights. Particularly when it impacts the ability of a physician to properly address their patient's health and safety issues.

Funny how there is little concern about providers that refuse to protect a woman's access to emergency birth control after rape or to direct her to a provider that will aid with these needs, but great concern about providers that let their views on gun related social issues impact their practice. The right course would have been to work with the Florida physician provider groups to develop ethical requirements which includes expectation for allowing a patient to refuse to answer a question posed. Restricting freedom of speech is a fascist approach. Such tactics is why gun advocacy groups are going to lose mainstream populist support.

[petronius]

34. My points were that it does not impact a physician's ability to address

patient health and safety, and as DUers we should be (are) concerned about both situations - denial of service for a social/political reason, whatever it is. I mentioned the pharmacists because in the FL example the pediatricians are analogous to those who would refuse the contraceptives.

I agree with you about the better course, but unfortunately we didn't hear a peep along those lines from the medical organizations or opponents of the bill...

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. Only, it IS a medical issue when kids are shooting each other, accidentally

or not.

And if a doctor doesn't want to facilitate kid shooting, that's his business. The patient can go find a pediatrician who likes patching up gunshot wounds.

[petronius]

37. A wound is a medical issue, owning a firearm is not - it's a social/political topic

which is not an appropriate basis for rejecting a patient. And as has been noted, the FL does exactly nothing to prevent a physician from dispensing any/all safety-related information, on any topic, that they see fit to provide an the patient is willing to receive.

"Facilitate kid shooting" is an extremely inaccurate way of framing the discussion, as is trying to make it about gunshot wounds...

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. If a parent cheers on a kid doing bicycle stunts without a helmet,

is that a medical issue, or a social/political issue?

[petronius]

39. It's a bad parenting issue, but in your poorly-constructed analogy it's

closer to social than medical. The cracked head would be medical.

And of course, a physician would be perfectly capable of and free to give advice about bike helmets without ever asking or knowing if the patient had a bike...

[MicaelS]

24. The difference is the patient is PAYING the physician for services

When I'm paying your salary, I don't want to hear your political opinion about my rights. Any of them. And as has been posted many times before the APA, and their policies, is adamantly anti-gun. There's no balance with the APA.

[hlthe2b]

32. Asking the question on behalf of the child's safety is NOT

expressing an opinion and nor should it go in that direction. Opening the dialogue allows for a reminder about securing guns, rather than leaving them in a nightstand or similar-- which could readily save that child's life.

Physicians are expected to ask a lot of questions that can be sensitive, including those about sexual practices. You have the right to refuse to answer and I would support your defense of that right. But legally outlawing the right for the physician to ask is restricting their ability to perform their duty to the patient.

[beevul]

45. Its simply NOT necessary.

"Asking the question on behalf of the child's safety is NOT expressing an opinion and nor should it go in that direction. Opening the dialogue allows for a reminder about securing guns, rather than leaving them in a nightstand or similar-- which could readily save that child's life.

Its simply NOT necessary, as I'm sure you have been told more than once.

No dialogue is necessary.

Pamphlets can be handed out without a dialogue.

"But legally outlawing the right for the physician to ask is restricting their ability to perform their duty to the patient."

No, it really isn't, since no dialogue is necessary to hand out safety information without comment.

[hlthe2b]

47. Obviously, given the deaths among children finding unsecured guns...

IT IS necessary.

[X_Digger]

48. What indication is there..

That asking, then giving advice is sufficient, yet just giving advice isn't?

I mean, that's really what you're saying.

The only difference before this law was that physicians could ask about gun ownership before giving advice. Now they can give advice.

That's it.

[beevul]

49. I'll say it again, since you didn't seem to understand the first time.

"Asking the question on behalf of the child's safety is NOT expressing an opinion and nor should it go in that direction. Opening the dialogue allows for a reminder about securing guns, rather than leaving them in a nightstand or similar-- which could readily save that child's life.

Its simply NOT necessary, as I'm sure you have been told more than once.

No dialogue is necessary.

Pamphlets can be handed out without a dialogue. Thats an alternative, in case you hadn't noticed. One can only wonder why you are opposed to such alternatives.

Perhaps you'd care to take a stab at explaining?



"Obviously, given the deaths among children finding unsecured guns...IT IS necessary."

Please explain why ONLY a dialogue would suffice, and pamphlets would not.

Then reassure us all that you have put proportional time and effort into the other things that cause child mortality at significantly higher rates - ya know, so we can all rest assured its not simply a gun thing for you, and that you aren't some sort of hypocrit, like most anti-gun types for example, are :

Top 20 Causes of Death - Kids (5 - 9)


Rank Cause of Death Total Deaths No of Deaths Percent

All Deaths 3018 3018 100.00%
1 Unintentional Injury 1176 38.97%
* Mohor Vehicle Traffic 621 20.58%
* Drowning 159 5.27%
* Fire/burn 153 5.07%
* Suffocation 40 1.33%
* Other Land Transport 33 1.09%
* Pedestrian, Other 27 0.89%
* Struck by or Against 20 0.66%
* Unspecified 20 0.66%
* Fall 18 0.60%
* Other Spec., classifiable 17 0.56%
* Poisoning 15 0.50%
* Firearm 14 0.46%
* Other Transport 12 0.40%
* Other Spec., NEC 8 0.27%
* Natural/ Environment 7 0.23%
* Machinery 6 0.20%
* Pedal cyclist, Other 4 0.13%
* Cut/pierce 2 0.07%

Top 20 Causes of Death - Young Teen (10 - 14)
Rank Cause of Death Total Deaths No of Deaths Percent
All Deaths 4132 4132 100.00%
1 Unintentional Injury 1542 37.32%
* MV Traffic 874 21.15%
* Drowning 162 3.92%
* Fire/burn 101 2.44%
* Other Land Transport 80 1.94%
* Suffocation 70 1.69%
* Firearm 34 0.82%
* Poisoning 28 0.68%
* Other Transport 27 0.65%
* Pedestrian, Other 26 0.63%
* Fall 24 0.58%
* Struck by or Against 22 0.53%
* Other Spec., classifiable 20 0.48%
* Pedal cyclist, Other 19 0.46%
* Unspecified 19 0.46%
* Other Spec., NEC 12 0.29%
* Machinery 11 0.27%
* Natural/ Environment 11 0.27%
* Cut/pierce

Top 20 Causes of Death - Older Teen (15 - 19)
Rank Cause of Death Total Deaths No of Deaths Percent
All Deaths 13812 13812 100.00%
1 Unintentional Injury 7137 51.67%
* Motor Vehicle Traffic 5522 39.98%
* Poisoning 486 3.52%
* Drowning 320 2.32%
* Firearm 107 0.77%
* Other Land Transport 100 0.72%
* Fire/burn 86 0.62%
* Fall 83 0.60%
* Unspecified 79 0.57%
* Other Transport 69 0.50%
* Pedestrian, Other 68 0.49%
* Suffocation 68 0.49%
* Other Spec., classifiable 56 0.41%
* Natural/ Environment 30 0.22%
* Struck by or Against 30 0.22%
* Machinery 11 0.08%
* Other Spec., NEC 11 0.08%
* Pedal cyclist, Other 7 0.05%
* Cut/pierce 4 0.03%



http://www.statisticstop10.com/Causes_of_Death_Kids.html

[Hoyt]

50. Maybe doctor knows something about patient's family situation that you don't.

All you know is that the doc made an issue over guns, and you don't like that.

[gejohnston]

51. given the work load MDs have between seeing patients and phoning insurance companies

to pay bills, I sort of doubt it.

[Hoyt]

53. For all you know, mother dropped a 31 round mag in his office.

I never heard a word from doctor, but I sure heard gunners whining. They don't like anyone who speaks out against their guns. I commend doc for standing up to it.

[gejohnston]

55. given the size and the gun would be hard to conceal, I doubt it.

[beevul]

56. And thats the difference between you and I, Hoyt.

"All you know is that the doc made an issue over guns, and you don't like that."

You are right. No, I don't.


You, on the other hand, do.


In a sort of perverted disgusting enthusiastic way, no less.

[DonP]

9. Probably will pretty soon, since the GOP/NRA already run 49 states

At least according to the OP the GOP/NRA have now forced through concealed carry laws in 49 states and no one has even made any attempt to repeal them. That includes all the pro gun control people here that whine and moan about these laws, but don't seem to ever do anything about it.

I'd say you better just get used to serving your new NRA masters if he's right.

Next step - make everyone buy at least one "assault weapon" and at least 5 "assault clips" per adult in the household, preferably from a gun shop, gun show or BATFE agent near the Mexican border.

[spin]

30. There has been no attempt to repeal concealed carry laws because they are very successful ...

programs and have caused no serious problems.

No state that passed such laws turned into the 'Wild West" with shootouts at noon and at every intersection as was predicted by the Chicken Little organizations that oppose the right to keep and bear arms such as the Brady Campaign and the VPC.

Often individuals with carry permits have been able to use their firearms for legitimate self defense against an attack which could have resulted in serious injury or death. In such instances it is not unusual for the attacker to run when the he realizes that his victim is armed and no shots are fired.

[rl6214]

3. Mine would ask just because they want to know

if there is something to protect themselves with in the case of a zombie Apocalypse.

Along with that they need to ask if there is a swimming pool, unsafe storage of chemicals, unlicensed drivers, mini bikes, skateboards, bunkbeds, jarts, dart boards, bycicles, trampolines, jungle gym...

[Blown330]

10. Dihydrogen monoxide....

...kills far more children than firearms. Don't see anything about doctors or parents inquiring into it either.

[hlthe2b]

13. LOL... killed by acid rain? Perhaps you mean carbon monoxide

Heavens...:eyes: (and if you wanted to make a point about carbon monoxide and accidental child deaths versus firearms, please show the statistics from a reliable source not associated with the gun industry).

[gejohnston]

15. CDC drowning in swimming pools

[hlthe2b]

20. American Academy of Pediatrics has long recommended asking

parents about exposure to home swimming pools and has offered advise from their website specific to the issue:
http://www.healthychildren.org/english/safety-prevention/at-play/Pages/Swimming-Pool-Safety.aspx

Thus, the point is moot to arguments against pediatricians asking about other aspects of child safety--including guns.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. No, he means dihydrogen monoxide...and the stats are freely available

it kills many more children every year than firearms

[hlthe2b]

23. Water safety has long been addressed by APA---you only serve to

underscore the appropriateness and consistency of pediatrician's asking about gun safety as part of a comprehensive inquiry on behalf of their patient.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. The APA is basically a trade/lobbying group which address nothing

Glad to see you now realize what dihydrogen monoxide is...

[hlthe2b]

43. It is the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) NOT APA--my typo

sorry

[Blown330]

19. Well, we now know you didn't do well...

....in high school chemistry. That is absolute hilarity right there.

[hlthe2b]

21. I am well aware of H20 and undoubtedly have more chemistry

background than you. Swimming pool safety has long been addressed by AAP.

[Blown330]

25. Well it's obvious you don't...

...because it took far too long for you to catch on. Firearm safety has long been addressed too (longer than swimming pools for that matter).

[-..__...]

26. LOL!!!

Epic fail...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax

[hlthe2b]

28. Why is it gun advocates can't detect cyncism

or mocking? Hmmm. Another similarity with the RW.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

41. Actually that is more a trait of the anti-rights bubbas...

[hlthe2b]

42. Obviously NOT

[hack89]

31. Information on dihydrogen monoxide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax

[GreenStormCloud]

44. You bit on that one.

Dihydrogen monoxide = H2O, commonly knon as water. More children die of drowning every year than die of gunshot.

[krispos42]

12. If this is just targeting guns, then it's political

If it's targeting common dangers for kids, including guns, then it's okay, although arbitrary. I mean, there's gasoline and tools in the garage, and my kid could in theory go in there and start something. But there are also unsecured knives in the kitchen.

He's six and knows better.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Nope. I do not have a gun.

I have a BUNCH of guns.

All properly secured.

[ileus]

46. Same here....and my kids know head the other way...

if they are at a friends house and the other kids pulls out a gun from somewhere. My kids have went hunting and have been taught enough to know guns aren't toys.

[Abq_Sarah]

52. My response would be

Are your knives, household cleaners and bathtubs kept locked away?

[The1lifer]

57. Dont forget

Dont forget dogs cars medication yard tools etc put out of reach or do i need to send little timmy over in his bubblewrapped EOD suit :)

[redgiant]

54. Ask about swimming pools, too.

Which cause more accidental child deaths?