For those of you thinking disarming a person with a knife is easy

[RamboLiberal]

And yes I have seen comments here to that effect. Well take a look at this man. He's 6'2", 270 pounds.


Joseph Lozito was slashed several times during the attack. (Santos/News)


Showalter for NewsJoe Lozito, attacked with a knife on the subway, recounts his terrifying experience from his hospital bed.

In the end, knife-wielding maniac Maksim Gelman picked the wrong man to mess with.

The 23-year-old psycho's deadly rampage came to a shrieking halt aboard a subway train when he tried to attack 6-foot-2, 270-pound mixed martial arts buff Joseph Lozito.

"I wasn't going to go down without a fight," Lozito said Sunday from his bed at Bellevue Hospital. "I took his best shots and I am still standing."

Lozito's chilling underground encounter Saturday was the final act in Gelman's 28-hour long, multi-borough rampage that left four dead and several others wounded.

"I'm lucky. Four people are dead. I am not," Lozito said, with tears in his eyes.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/02/13/2011-02-13_my_deadly_battle_with_madman_victim.html#ixzz1DtQtwqow

[pnwmom]

1. I don't think that would be easy. OTOH,

I don't think a person armed only with a knife would be able to kill a dozen people within a few seconds. If nothing else, they'd have time to run away.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

2. I had a roomate once who was a good knife thrower.

Wouldn't want to be within 20 ft of an attacker like him.

[pnwmom]

8. As good as he was, he couldn't have thrown that knife

at more than one person at a time.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

11. last I checked, my pistol only shoots at one target at a time.

If I want to shoot at more targets, I get a pistol with than one bullet.
It'd be pretty similar to using more than one knife.

[pnwmom]

20. Do they make knives with 30 tip cartridges

that can be thrown in seconds?

[PavePusher]

38. Glad you asked....

http://www.hibbenknives.com/throwing_knives.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Gil-Hibben-Original-Thrower-Triple/dp/B0046SBMGS

[pnwmom]

41. Not quite an AK-47. Anything else? n/t

[Sonoman]

3. Gelman must not have been very good with a knife.

I don't care who has what training, a guy who knows the knife can handle any un-armed person.

I can switch hands or feint a switch more quickly than most people could recognize the move.

Bully for Lozito. One of the first things you learn in most martial arts training is to run from the guy with the knife. This dude was really brave.

Sonoman

[SDuderstadt]

4. Can you point to anyone here who has said that...

disarming someone with a knife is easy?

[RandomThoughts]

6. Not that difficult.

If he has a knife, fight from a distance use your range advantage and make him lunge, till he is off balance, then go only for the knife arm till disarmed, take some damage sometimes, but that is the theory.

If they got a gun, get in close, and disarm, mostly twist off the hand a twist on a gun can disarm someone quickly.

[Sonoman]

10. Someone who is good with a knife will never lunge.

Any un-armed person who tries to be aggressive with someone who knows the knife is in for some uncomfortable surprises.

Sonoman

[RandomThoughts]

43. You would need a good kick, if unarmed

:D

Or a headbutt.

:)

[RamboLiberal]

49. I remember replying to those implications in threads here

in the past.

[SDuderstadt]

52. I see...

now they are "implications" and you don't seem to be able to recall anyone in particular. Hmmm.

Oh, wait...at least now in this OP, it seems to be other gun proponents.

[RamboLiberal]

55. One was someone with a knife that was shot in a WalMart

parking lot.

[safeinOhio]

5. Knife attack from 121 feet away.

There is no way to stop this guy, even with a gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_6bmrqIsP8

[YllwFvr]

53. The 21 foot rule

is drilled into the cadets in the police academy. They give you a blue gun and the other guy a fake knife and let you try to draw and present before you are stabbed. Sometimes the one with the gun can make it. Havent tried it myself yet.

[Old Codger]

7. You are gonna

Get cut if the knife wielder is close enough to you and he wants to cut you , you will get cut even if you have a gun in your hand... I am not sure what the distance is they teach (used to know) I think it is inside 7 feet or so. If he makes the first move and you shoot at that time he will most likely still cut you.

[PavePusher]

12. "Tueller drill"

21 feet or closer, a person can contact you before you can draw and fire a handgun. This varies slightly with practice and abilities, but is the standard rule-o-thumb.

[SlimJimmy]

16. Correct. And some teach that it can be as much as 25 feet. (nt)

[RSillsbee]

19. 25 Vs, 21 is only a step or two different NT

[SlimJimmy]

21. I was agreeing with the poster and only adding that the distance might vary a bit, but

the concept remained the same.

[Old Codger]

32. Thank you

I knew it was farther than I had in there but could not remember, been a long time since training days, time to go back for refresher I guess...

[GreenStormCloud]

24. 21 feet, 7 yards. N/T

[Vinnie From Indy]

9. Who said or thought that?

Neither is disarming a person with a large stick or bar stool or whatever if that person attacks out of the blue.

[elias49]

13. What a bunch of bullshit

This stupid Daily News story is supposed to make an equivalence between a piece of lead hurled by an explosive force at around 2,000 to 5,000 meters per second - a can easily pass right through your body (or head...think Rep Giffords) and a knife in someone's hand across the room. Good grief!
Granted I wouldn't want to be trapped in a phone booth with a man wielding a knife - a SHARP knife - but come on!
Ever try to saw your way through a piece of rope with a knife that wasn't RAZOR SHARP?
Bah

[Dan]

14. well, my thoughts

having been in a couple and can only say this: the first one (we were young) tried like hell to spill my guts, but didn't have any real experience. The second one (older now) really didn't want to cut my guts or I wouldn't be here now. Run from the knife is good advice (if you can)...

[SlimJimmy]

17. 2-5 thousand meters a second? Now that is one "smok'n" bullet.

[PavePusher]

18. Judging by your comment, you no nothing about guns, or knives, or combat with either.

Good luck with that.

[elias49]

23. Thanks Rambo nt

[PavePusher]

26. Ad Hominem. That says it all. Thank YOU, sir. n/t

[PavePusher]

39. "know", not "no". Stupid typos.... n/t

[oneshooter]

22. Handguns fire at an average speed of 1000 fps, rifles at 2600 fps.

Your numbers are way off.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[GreenStormCloud]

25. What gun has that kind of muzzle velocity? 16,000+ feet per second.

Having a SHARP knife is a fairly easy thing to do.

[oneshooter]

28. Rail gun, with a LONG extension cord. n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

44. LOL! Good reply. N/T

[RamboLiberal]

50. The only equivalence I was making in the post is for those

who have implied there was no need to shoot someone with a knife - heck just disarm him.

Nothing to do with Giffords shooting.

[YllwFvr]

54. if the room is 21 feet or smaller

knife beats gun often enough

[cleanhippie]

57. So a dull knife cannot hurt you?

Granted I wouldn't want to be trapped in a phone booth with a man wielding a knife - a SHARP knife - but come on!

A dull knife, or even a bic ball point pen can easily severely injure or kill you, especially in that situation. Not really seeing your point at all.

[oneshooter]

62. A dull knife requires more strength to use, but hurts a hell of a lot more. n/t

[Drale]

15. We where always taught

if your life is truly in danger you charge a gun run from a knife but only if there is no other way out.

[Katya Mullethov]

27. Unless you are in the position to sneak up behind them

And hit them with your purse .

[sharesunited]

29. If you use a knife, you get covered in your victim's blood. If you use a gun, it's pop pop pop

and you're gone stain free.

Knives take work. Where is our work ethic?

[oneshooter]

30. So you prefer people be killed by a knife? n/t

[sharesunited]

31. I would prefer that inflicting death and injury on others require more than pulling a trigger.

It might be a DISincentive.

Is imposing a DISincentive to causing death and injury objectionable to you?

Or do you like it to be easy and consequence free?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

33. You also have to work the action and aim... does that count?

:rofl:

[sharesunited]

35. Sure, very labor intensive. Holy Fucking God. Quit provoking me.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

37. Ever rack a blowback pistol or pull the trigger on a Sigma? ... it's pretty tough, actually.

[sharesunited]

40. It should be impossible to do so by virtue of their utter absence.

[krispos42]

36. That is only true for the attacker, not the attackee.

Self-defense is not a game to be played fairly.

[GreenStormCloud]

45. I'm too old to try knife fighting someone. I'll keep my guns. N/T

[one-eyed fat man]

56. True that!

You were positively glowing in your approbation of the killer in Ohio who hacked his victims to death and hid them in a hollow tree.

"What a wild savage the killer must have been. Nothing convenient or expeditious about this crime. Certainly nothing as simple as pulling a trigger. It took much greater guile and determination."

[ProgressiveProfessor]

79. The logical result of your stand is that the weak would not longer be able to protect themselves

from stronger predators. Why would you support that?

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RSillsbee]

42. Disarming a person w/ a knife IS easy

Give me an M1 Garand and let me start 100 yards away from the knife weilder and I will show you how easy it is

[Hoyt]

46. And I thought you guys were using your ubiquitous guns for "protection."

Shooting a guy with a knife at 100 yards sounds like more than protection to me. At that range, it's essentially shooting an unarmed man.

[RSillsbee]

47. Maybe I'm protecting the people around him

Seen any OCers in Mickey D's lately?

[Hoyt]

59. It wasn't McDonald's, but I did ask an OCer if he was in the FBI. The fker had no sense of humor.

When he said "No." I asked him if he was in the GBI. He shook his head. I said are you a Deputy Sheriff? Finally, I asked him if he was a T-Bagger? I think he was glad to get his order and get away from my Bill Murray "What about Bob?" imitation.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shadowrider]

65. Sounds to me like you were trying to goad the guy into something stupid

And he showed the poise most people do by simply walking away.

[Starboard Tack]

67. Good point

I would never goad anyone carrying a gun. Just imagine what might have happened if the goadee had not walked away. He might've just shot the goader, or threatened the goader. But wait, goading, doesn't that come under the 1st Amendment? You know, the one that apparently gets trumped by the 2nd.

[cleanhippie]

72. The guy was probably thinking "hey, its one of those irrational, knee-jerkers".

[oneshooter]

74. No more like "hey, its one of those irrational, jerks. n/t

[cleanhippie]

75. well..

I was trying to be nice:)

[oneshooter]

76. Most anti's rarely know nice. n/t

[cleanhippie]

77. .

Just checking....are under the impression I am an "anti" or that I do not know "nice"?

[oneshooter]

78. You most defiantly are not a "anti" and know what "nice"is.

I was referring to the anti's use of profane vocabulary on a regular basis. Most gunnies here refrain from the use of profanity to make their point.

A good day to you.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Katya Mullethov]

66. Maybe he thought it more of a Nellie Olsen impersonation

[lawodevolution]

73. Wow, you're attacking people in the street because they hold different political values

Than you. That's really stupid and immature

[slackmaster]

48. I'd wait until he was within 25 yards

Just to make it "fair".

[oneshooter]

51. To make more "fair" I would use a 12ga w/buckshot! n/t

[Hoyt]

58. Such gun humor and lack of maturity displayed by you guys is another reason to ban guns in public.

[oneshooter]

64. How about that, no sense of humor either! n/t

[cleanhippie]

68. Well, thats on par with your HuffPo article.

more asinine and unfounded reasons to ban guns.

[Hoyt]

70. It's better than your rationale for carrying them in public.

[cleanhippie]

71. And just what is "my" rationale?

Funny, I don't recall ever giving you one.

But hey, whats a little fabrication between friends?

[cleanhippie]

69. Oh, look. another strwaman.

After reading your HuffPo article, I see that strawmen are a favorite tool.

[Kennah]

61. Having done a bit of FMA ...

... knives are about the scariest weapon I'd ever wanna face.

Most people are fucking stupid when it comes to sticks, so a lightweight 28" rattan stick would be my weapon of choice if I had to duel a random person.

Second choice would be guns.

Third choice would be knives.

[oneshooter]

63. I would prefer, for unarmed combat, a staff or my knobkerries. n/t