Top 5 Reasons to Allow Concealed Carry on Campus

[shadowrider]

1. Only Licensed, Legally-Armed Citizens Would Carry.

Students for Concealed Carry does not advocate “arming students.” Our proposals do not change who can carry, but where. We believe that professors, ROTC cadets, ex-Marines, evening students or anyone who already carries a concealed weapon under existing law is no different on campus than they are off-campus. After all, under current law, armed citizens can carry a concealed weapon into literally thousands of places throughout their state, including movie theaters, restaurants, banks, shopping malls, churches and grocery stores, and have done so responsibly for years.

State laws generally require a comprehensive FBI criminal background check, fingerprints, classroom instruction and live-fire certification. Consequently, legally-armed citizens already have training and experience with firearms, and have demonstrated responsibility. Whether or not you support concealed carry, it’s already an existing right in most states. In view of this, prohibiting these same responsible concealed carry on a college campus doesn’t make sense.

http://www.concealedcampus.org/?ammoland

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

1. Outside of dormatories, where lax security may offer easy acces to minors, I agree with campus CCW

Most dormatories are not secured very well and there are often roomates with easy access to shared living spaces. I think that dormatories shouldn't have to allow the unattended storage of friearms. Plus not all students get to choose their roomates. For private apratment style housing, private housing, and commuting students I don't mind legal CCW anywhere on campus (even in dormatories).

[PavePusher]

19. I don't think there are a lot of 21-year-old, CCW-eligible students...

living in dorms. I could be mistaken...

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

35. I was 21 my senior year and chose to live in a dorm.

Mainly because it was the closest walking/biking distance to my classes.

[PavePusher]

48. And I'm guessing you were in a very small minority of Seniors? n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

50. most seniors at my university... probably 60%+ percent... lived in university dorms.

It wasn't uncommon because the university was in a large city.

[PavePusher]

51. Ah, that explains it. Big city generally equals high rents...?

I went (for a short time) to U of Vermont (88-89) in Burlington, VT. If 10% of seniors lived in dorms, I'd be very surprised.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

52. Cleveland...

The surrounding apartments were either expensive, utterly shitty, or in unsafe neighborhoods.
When you parked on the street off-campus... you left your car unlocked so they didn't have to break your windows.

[PavePusher]

53. Ah, yes. A friend of mine lived in a place like that once...

He ended up gluing patches of frayed fabric to the side of his tires... it was the only way to find them still on the car in the morning. You also had to take your radio in the house with you...

[MineralMan]

2. 6. Because all drunken frat boys should be armed.

[shadowrider]

3. Strawman

No one is advocating that.

[nykym]

5. And just how do you

plan to stop that? Not being snarky, I would like to know.

[shadowrider]

6. What's to stop them from doing it now? Can you answer that? n/t

[nykym]

7. I don't consider asking another

question an answer. Could you offer what you would propose to safeguard this? I am not against responsible people having guns, but do think a college campus is really not the place for them.

[shadowrider]

9. That's not the way it works. You asserted it, now you want me to prove it won't happen

Uh Uh. You made the statement, you prove it will. You can look at any college where conceal carry is now legal and point to specific examples.

I'll wait.

[nykym]

11. NO you did not answer the question

Hold your breath and turn blue waiting.

[shadowrider]

13. Then we're done. I refuse to be pulled into an argument where someone makes

an assinine assumption then expects someone to disprove it.

I'll only say, on any college or university campus that allows CCW, it hasn't happened.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

17. Nothing can physically stop that from happening.

It's already against the law to carry a firearm and be intoxicated - si I guess that answers your question.
But nothing can physically prevent them from doing it just like nothing can stop your coworkers from doing it.
So I don't see how a college campus is any different than everywhere else people can carry firearms. :shrug:

Arguing an asinine assumption as a basis against changing the law is stupid. Do YOU have any evidence that what YOU proposed is likely to be a realistic problem? Because in the 40+ states that allow people to carry firearms around (and the few states that even allow college students to do so as well) your fears do not seem realistic - in fact they are somewhat contrary to the evidence showing licensed carriers of firearms are MORE lawbiding than the general population.

[MineralMan]

8. No. Nobody's advocating that. It will happen, nevertheless.

Yes, there's training required for CCW. Yes, there's instruction. Great. Those frat boys (and others) have all sorts of instruction and rules. And yet, we read the stories about their lack of regard for rules and standards all the time.

If CCW on campus is permitted, I can guarantee that there will be a rush of frat boys to get their permit. It'll make them feel important, and that's a big deal to many of them. They will get drunk while armed. Guaranteed. Then, down the road a bit, we're going to begin seeing stories with headlines that read something like this:

Two Killed in Gunfire at Frat Party

Guaranteed.

[shadowrider]

10. Yea, yea. "There will be blood in the streets". We've heard that before, and it ain't happened n/t

[clffrdjk]

20. So why aren't we seeing it now??

Right now your "frat boys" in most states can go out and get their permits and carry daily almost any where they go except most university campuses. Why aren't we seeing mass bloodshed in the frats now?

[MineralMan]

40. Uh, Google fraternity shooting

Thanks for asking.

[X_Digger]

45. How many of those had CHL / CCW licenses?

You're not trying to tar a specific class of people with the foibles of the general public, are you?

[PavePusher]

21. Again, there is nothing stopping it now.

So, what will the difference be?

[slackmaster]

29. You left out one very important fact, MineralMan...

Yes, there's training required for CCW. Yes, there's instruction.

There's also a minimum age of 21 to apply for a permit.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[OneTenthofOnePercent]

36. VERY good point. Alot of frat houses are either privately owned or technically "off campus"

meaning as the laws are now you could legally carry a firearm there.

[shadowrider]

37. But there will be blood in the streets and the halls of the frat houses I tell ya

Oh, wait.

Nevermind.

[MineralMan]

41. Try a Google search for

fraternity shooting. It happens. You won't have any trouble finding examples.

[shadowrider]

42. So? A few examples out of the hundreds of thousands of frat parties

doesn't prove anything.

THAT is the same argument given when, on this very board, an example of a cop shooting a guy 17 times was "only one incident" and doesn't justify more than 10 rounds per mag.

[MineralMan]

39. No, I'm not.

[GreenStormCloud]

38. Frat parties are always off-campus.

Why isn't you fear happening there, where the laws aren't any different than anywhere else.

[Callisto32]

4. Guns and the college campus.

You know, the thing about this issue isn't that CCW holders would become more dangerous if they carried to school. It's that the people that run, teach at, and attend those universities are (in my 4 year college career's worth of experience) incredibly ignorant on the whole topic.

I wanted to start a school small bore rifle team and approached the athletic administration about it. I was told it was "too dangerous." This from a school whose athletic pride and joy was/is the lacrosse team. I tried to show statistics about the excellent safety of the shooting sports, especially as compared with lacrosse, and was summarily shut down.

In my senior year (while already a PA LTCF holder) I participated in the "empty holster" event promoted by the same organization as in the OP. You would have thought I was wearing a sandwich board that said "I'm wearing nothing under this sandwich board, oh, and I have a bomb." People acted either afraid of me, or like I was nuts. The people that actually knew me just laughed at it, my one friend asked me if I was "coming out of the closet" as a gun owner to the college. After the better part of the day, I got a call from the school paper for an interview, since I guess my one man demonstration was interesting to someone. I used the opportunity to ask the woman who interviewed me what people had been saying about it as to why they are reacting negatively. She said that in one of her classes, they discussed the issue and a number of the students expressed that they were worried since, "if he has a holster, who's to say he doesn't have a gun." At least, here I got to respond to the thought by saying that "of course I have a gun, it is locked up at home, because the school does not allow me to carry and I respect private property rights."

Finally, I had one of those ridiculous classes you have to take to get through college, and each class we took 20 minutes for one student to give a presentation in what they considered their "specialty." I of course took the opportunity to do "Firearms: Clarifying Common Misconceptions and Answering Questions." As part of my presentation I had a couple of dummy cartridges that I put together so as to have some frame of reference about size and power of different cartridges. Though totally inert with a hole drilled in the case, and a spent primer in the pocket(features I explained before handing them around) there were still a couple of students a little avers to even touching a dummy round. Finally, during my "any questions you have about guns that I know the answer to I would be happy to answer" portion of the whole thing, almost all of the questions came from a pre-determined "but aren't guns...bad" position. I even had one person ask, "yeah, but why should anybody be allowed to have these things."

I guess the point of all this is that even at university this topic is generally approached from a visceral, emotional stance, rather than taking the time to reason through it. So long as that remains, I do not think there will be much progress made in this particular vein.

[Hoyt]

12. Kudos to the students, faculty, etc., who did not want guns on campus.

It's not exactly part of the "college experience." Nor should it be.

[PavePusher]

26. Ah, Ignorance...

The specialty of institutes of "higher learning".

Well played, Citizen, well played.

[Callisto32]

31. At least someone got the point.

[PavePusher]

49. I are not uh kawlege graajite...

but i cans play one on duh in-tur-webz.

[hlthe2b]

14. Yes.. because we all know that universities can only be better...

if teachers and students are constantly intimidated by those carrying guns. Can't debate your point well in class against a far more informed student or professor? Just sort of motion down to your concealed weapon with a knowing nod? Teacher refuses to elevate your failing grade? Well maybe a casual mention of your CCW. Some girl's boyfriend giving you a hard time? Just a little in his face time with a wave down towards your concealed gun.

Intimidation Campuses... coming to a university near you.

[shadowrider]

15. Pssst. CCW means the gun is concealed. No one will be intimidated by

what they can't see.

Are you intimidated into staying home because someone somewhere MIGHT have a CONCEALED weapon? If you don't, you contradict your own statement.

[hlthe2b]

16. You are clueless if you think one has to see the gun in order

for the holder to let you know it is there.

[shadowrider]

18. I carry every day and have YET to have someone call the law because they

"know" it's there. In fact, they don't.

[hlthe2b]

22. Once again you totally (intentionally?) miss the point...

Since you are ignoring the fact that one can casually mention CCW or how they feel about CCW to let another know they are likely carrying and that little shitty intimidation move is perfectly legal, THAT is the climate that SOME (not all) are likely to bring to our campuses. That has an extremely chilling effect on freedom to speak freely, to debate strenuously (to the point one might anger another) or for a Professor to freely evaluate students--good and bad.

[shadowrider]

23. And YOU are ignoring the fact CCW holders would NOT tell anyone

they're carrying. It's no ones business but theirs.

Are YOU intentionally missing that?

[hlthe2b]

25. Only those who want to bully and intimidate... Clueless!

[shadowrider]

28. That would be called brandishing which is illegal

It's also extremely difficult to bully, intimidate and/or start an altercation THEN claim self-defense.

It's you who have no clue about legal CCW holders. Your lack of education is shining through.

[Hoyt]

56. You have to be kidding -- carriers I've known always talk about their guns, bores, accessories,

and love to tell about how some guy approached them and they merely touched their gun. I was never sure how they knew they were a mugger or something, but it gave the carrier a big charge to tell it.

In fact, some gun obsessed really can't talk about anything else.

[DainBramaged]

60. some gun obsessed really can't talk about anything else

Yup, it happens here day after day after day........the rest of the world is invisible to them

[PavePusher]

27. Do you have evidence that CCW persons...

are running around telling everyone "I have a gun!"?

Otherwise, your apprehension is mere vapour in the wind.

[cleanhippie]

33. Dude, you are vocalizing something that only happens in your mind.

I think its called "projection".

[DonP]

24. You are obviously ignoring the "Gun Chi" of gun control fans

Somehow they just "know" when someone is carrying because of that Gun Chi that every firearm emits. What confuses me is, do all these people live in Illinois or Wisconsin? Or do they stay indoors all the time to stay away from the millions of CCW people out there in their home state?

Or perhaps they just use medication and therapy to calm their nerves so they can stand in line to buy groceries with a permit holder in front of and behind them in line?

How do they cope?

But Dammit! they know they are out there even if they can't ever give even a single example of a college shoot out by ccw holders at Frat Parties or of other students being intimidated be concealed carry people.

[Name removed]

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[RSillsbee]

34. 1. Only Licensed, Legally-Armed Citizens Would Carry.

To be honest that's not even true now.

Which is a damn good reason to allow licensed carriers to carry.

[pipoman]

43. There is no such thing as an ex-Marine....just sayn'

IIRC there has only been 1 in the history of the corps

[Katya Mullethov]

47. I thought there were two now

Time marches on .

[pipoman]

54. Could be...you REALLY have to screw up...

[Katya Mullethov]

57. Oswald and Murtha

It is a pretty tight bunch though .

[guardian]

44. How about 32 more reasons

http://www.remembrance.vt.edu/2007/biographies/

[LAGC]

55. I bet all those victims appreciated being unarmed after the fact.

Not that CCW'ers have any obligation to prevent mass shootings, but if I was there and packing heat, I would have dropped Cho in a heart-beat.

Might have gotten my ass shot in the process, but I would have tried.

[Katya Mullethov]

58. I'd just hit em with my purse

[RamboLiberal]

46. As someone who went part time to college

At a downtown campus to get my degree for 4+ years and had to park in a parking garage in not the nicest part of town I would've appreciated being able to be armed.

There were nights I returned late to the garage because I had to be in the computer lab trying to get my programs compiled & debugged. This was back in the mini and mainframe era of computers when terminals were the big item & time on them was limited to an hour.

[DainBramaged]

59. Since when did college campuses become hotbeds of crime?

Will you people ever give up? Wait I asked a question I already know the answer to. How sad that you insist guns become a part of everyone else's fears beside your own.....

[spin]

61. Stop trying to rationalize your own fear of firearms by claiming that I'm afraid ......

because I have a concealed weapons permit.