Jon Meacham, a gun owner, on restoring the assault weapons ban

[butterfly77]

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/video/video-jon-meacham-a-gun-owner-on-restoring-the-assault-weapons-ban/6413/



First, some personal history. I am a southerner who grew up with and around guns. I own some still. My father gave me a .22 rifle when I was 9 and a single barrel .410 shotgun when I was 10. I have inherited many of my family’s guns, including a rifle made by my great, great, great grandfather, which I will preserve and give to my son. One of the central memories of my childhood is of hunting — not well; I am a terrible shot — quail and dove and grouse on a farm on the Tennessee River.



Tragically, my mind has all too frequent occasion to return to that time and that place, to the smells of cordite and of home. Whenever there is news of a terrible shooting, I wonder why America has so miserably failed to enact even common-sense gun legislation. I am not

[X_Digger]

1. Sorry, Jon, you're a minority..

Only 1 in 5 gun owners hunt. And 'sporting purposes'??

Self-defense isn't a sport.

[Lurks Often]

2. Wonder how many people they went through to get that comment. NT

[shadowrider]

4. LOL yup

Producer: Holy crap, we've interviewed 200 people and could only find 1?????????????????

[onehandle]

3. Stoopid librul PBS commie. nt

[shadowrider]

5. PBS typically takes an anti-gun stance

No surprise this would be on their website.

[Katya Mullethov]

8. If not PBS , then where ?

The internet !!





If anybody would like to have their treasured copy of Meacham's "American Lion" or Brady's "A Good Life" autographed , or simply break wind and smile , here is Jim Zumbo's contact information at the SHOT show .


Booth: Outdoor Channel Executive Suite - Level 2 Bassano Room #2601 Event Type: Celebrity in your booth If Other: Autograph Signing
Appearance: Friday January 21st
Appearance Time: 1PM - 2PM
Location: NSSF Booth - Sands Level 2 Lobby Booth #L22

[Euromutt]

6. Typical Fudd

You'd think he might have learned something from the Zumbo affair, but evidently not.

[Tejas]

7. yakyak....black market for guns is irrelevant.....yak

Now Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy and Senator Frank Lautenberg are sponsoring legislation to restore the ban on such weapons. The argument from Second Amendment purists that such things will then only find their way to the black market is unconvincing. *The perfect cannot be the enemy of the good*. A ban on these clips would mark a step toward bringing order out of the chaos of the Tucson tragedy.




So according to yet another expert, TEH BAN would be on weapons, not just magazines, er, not CLIPS?
(as yet, McCarthy has only mentioned "clips".....as yet)
And the concern by gunowners about the black market is just a bunch of hot air?
(thank goodness he's not in law enforcement)
And what is this "Tucson OMFGCHAOS"? Does he mean the one manufactured by the MSM or ?
(Meacham want a cracker?)



"The perfect cannot be the enemy of the good"
Used/abused by everyone from Pearl Jam to Arnold Schwarzenegger ;)

[Katya Mullethov]

9. She was insinuating last night on CNN

That the mere possession of Bigg Kwips would be punishable with a mandatory 5 year felony ,and a major crime against the state . Please to continue running mouth commrade , please to keep piling that shit on . Please . I triple dog dare you .

But it's like cocaine . It is SOOOOOOOOOO GOOD ! . They cannot help themselves . They will not quit . Nor shall I . I have yet another date today with yet another black powder curios neighbor , soon to be the latest constitutional carry convert . And unlike the self righteous wind bags that only stay pissed off as long as the tele tells them to . We endure .

[shadowrider]

10. Bigg Kwips..ROFL n/t

[X_Digger]

11. Sooo stealing that 'Bigg Kwipps' term. n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

14. Black powder curious neighbor

Not curios , like curios and relics .

And not black powder sex curious . Proselytizers and street preachers take note , there is a time and place for that .
And it is not when you're out stumpin' for freedom .

[Tejas]

16. Bigg Kwips - your subthread sucks without pics, so here is a bigg kwip

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iIgGzjVNEAk/TTElwLPdZWI/AAAAAAAAFjU/F9Jz2HM7lto/s1600/GIGAZINE+535.jpg

[shadowrider]

27. You'd need a 10 foot stepladder to fire the dang gun n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

38. Birdman Weapons Systems has sites to fix that

Ya know , Birdman was once a "correspondent" of mine , not unlike yourself .

[Hoyt]

39. But gun wearers who post here would rush out to buy the dang thing.

[shadowrider]

40. Not me. It'd knock my aim off. I prefer my high capacity 10 round magazine

with one in the pipe, of course.

[Katya Mullethov]

44. Standard capacity

If they control the grammar ,they control you . That little gibbering gibbon of a man ,Junkhead or whatever his name WAS ...wasn't COMPLETELY insane .

Standard capacity is just that . If they want it to be 5 , then that is diminished capacity .

[Tejas]

42. I have THREE of them so STAY OFF MY LAWN!!1!!one!!

[SteveM]

46. Hell, it'll sag in the middle. nt

[spin]

12. Hi-cap and extended magazines were always available during the failed "assault weapons" ban ...

Federal Assault Weapons Ban

****snip****

The law prohibited newly-manufactured detachable magazines with a capacity of more than ten rounds manufactured after enactment of the law from sale, transfer, or importation. One effect was the increased importation from other countries of large quantities of magazines manufactured before the ban. Former Warsaw Pact countries had large quantities of AK-47 magazines of various capacities that could fit a variety of both pre-ban and post-ban AK-47 variants. Existing stocks of pre-ban American-made magazines were likewise exempt from the ban; this resulted in a brief surge in domestic manufacture of high-capacity magazines before the law took effect. Large capacity magazines manufactured post-ban for military and law enforcement were stamped or etched with the logo "LEO" (for "Law Enforcement Only") and it was illegal for civilians to possess LEO magazines during the ban.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Every shooter I knew had to have two or three hi-cap or extended magazines for their brand new "assault weapon" the they had purchased during the ban. They just paid an exorbitant price and bought any magazine they wanted. And it was totally legal as the magazines they bought had been manufactured before the cutoff date.

[one-eyed fat man]

18. One of the largest police supply companies

in the US is located just across the river in Indiana. After the ban was passed they ran a deal where they would trade even up a brand new Glock, Sig, S&W etc to any police officer who traded in the same model USED, as long as it came with its unmarked pre-ban factory magazines.

They did a land office business and more than recouped their investment reselling the trade ins with the pre-ban mags at a healthy premium.

One other tidbit, locally there was an individual arrested for some computer scam late in 2003. One of the things they discovered in searching this guy's house were two "Law Enforcement Only" marked Glock magazines.

Even though the ban had "sunset" before he came to trial, he was still convicted of unlawfully possessing the magazines because they were illegal when he had had them. Oddly enough, until the statute of limitations runs out, as long as the government can prove unlawful possession when something was illegal it does not matter that is is lawful now.

[right2bfree]

28. That doesnt mean we can't ban them now. You get cuaght with a big magazine,

and we send you off to prison. Its the law, or it will be soon enough.

Noone needs a 31 bullet magazine.

[shadowrider]

30. What is YOUR definition of a big magazine? 10, 12, 15?? n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

34. You can forget about ANY new national gun control legislation.

258+ members of the house (435 members) completely agree with the NRA, and have NRA "A" rating. 50 Senators also do.

[spin]

35. Why should Democrats shoot themselves in the foot once again? ...

The result of pushing for a ban on high capacity or extended magazines would be that Democrats would lose close elections in the future and we would give the Republicans the gift of the gun control issue to beat us at the polls once again.

And what exactly would we accomplish?

As I read this forum I have come to the conclusion that Democrats who have little understanding of firearm issues also believe that extremely simple solutions like banning "big magazines" will solve the problem. Other Democrats who do support RKBA and are familiar with firearms realize that blaming a component of the firearm is useless.

Let me point out that the Virginia Tech shooter, Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people and wounded 25 others. He used 10 round magazines and reloaded 17 times.

During February and March 2007, Cho began purchasing the weapons that he later used during the killings. On February 9, 2007, Cho purchased his first handgun, a .22 caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol, from TGSCOM Inc., a federally-licensed firearms dealer based in Green Bay, Wisconsin and the operator of the website through which Cho ordered the gun.<77><78><79><80> TGSCOM Inc. shipped the Walther P22 to JND Pawnbrokers in Blacksburg, Virginia, where Cho completed the legally-required background check for the purchase transaction and took possession of the handgun.<81> Cho bought a second handgun, a 9mm Glock 19 semiautomatic pistol, on March 13, 2007 from Roanoke Firearms, a licensed gun dealer located in Roanoke, Virginia.<77><82>

***snip***

On March 22, 2007, Cho purchased two 10-round magazines for the Walther P22 pistol through eBay from Elk Ridge Shooting Supplies in Idaho.<86> Based on a preliminary computer forensics examination of Cho's eBay purchase records, investigators suspected that Cho may have purchased an additional 10-round magazine on March 23, 2007 from another eBay seller who sold gun accessories.<87>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho#Weapons

If you wanted to stop mass murders by banning something, the logical item to ban is semi-automatic firearms. Of course, considering the recent rulings by he Supreme Court, this is probably legally impossible and would do far more damage to the future of the Democratic party than attempting to ban high capacity magazines.

Both the Arizona shooter and the Virginia Tech shooter may have something in common. Many people including experts believe that Jared Lee Loughner has serious mental issues. Seung-Hui Cho had been declared mentally ill by a state court.

Obviously we need to better identify those with severe mental illness in our nation like Jared Loughner and provide treatment.

The one thing we can do right now is to get the states to input the names of people who are already determined to have serious mental issues to the NICS database. No new laws have to be passed, everything is ready and in place. Many states are far behind and who can say how many potential mass murderers whose names have not been input into the list, can walk into a gun store today and buy weapons in preparation for another mass murder. In fact many states have not input ANY names in the last 3 years!

Check and see how your own state is doing by visiting this link:
http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/Facts/2011-01-05_Overview_State_Records_of_Mental_Prohibitors.pdf

Visit the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence for further info on the subject.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/backgroundchecks/nics

[SteveM]

47. "we send you off to prison." nice. Every prohi's wet-dream. nt

[Hoyt]

43. Lot's of things are legal -- but not necessarily desirable.

I think gun owners like the guy above who says a high capacity mag would throw his aim off are sane gun owners/users. Folks who collect so-called assault weapons and accessories, not so sure.

[spin]

13. This fool calls a magazine a clip and admits he is a terrible shot ...

obviously he knows little about firearms. He claims to own a .22 rifle, a single shot .410 shotgun and some rifle made by one of his ancestors (probably black powder).

His main claim to shooting expertise is attempting to shoot "quail and dove and grouse on a farm on the Tennessee River." He probably has never fired a Glock in his life or any other pistol for that matter.

He says,

Congress banned such clips in 1994 under President Clinton; in 2004, under the second President Bush, they were allowed back on the legal U.S. market. So were other assault weapons banned for the previous decade.

He obviously doesn't know that the sale of assault weapons and high capacity magazine were NEVER banned. Sadly a little research on the internet could have revealed that.

During the period in which the AWB was in effect, it was illegal to manufacture any firearm that met the law's definition of an "assault weapon" or "large capacity ammunition feeding device", except for export or for sale to a government or law enforcement agency. Possession of illegally imported or manufactured firearms was outlawed as well, but the law did not ban the possession or sale of pre-existing "assault weapons" or previously factory standard magazines which had been legally redefined as "large capacity ammunition feeding devices". This provision for "pre-ban" firearms created a higher price point in the market for such items, which lasted until the ban's sunset.

***snip***

The law banned certain feature combinations that many firearms experts considered to be arbitrary. Manufacturers complied with the law by removing the banned features while leaving the core functionality of the weapons intact. For this, they were criticized as attempting to circumvent the spirit of the law by many gun control groups and even by then-president Bill Clinton. Pro-gun groups responded by pointing out that the manufacturers made and sold exactly what was permitted, and that they could not be held to any standard higher than the law itself.

For example, the AB-10 was a legal version of the TEC-9, with barrel threading and barrel shroud removed; the XM-15 was a legal AR-15 without barrel threading or a bayonet mounting lug; post-ban semi-automatic AK-47s were also sold without folding stocks or bayonet lugs, and with standard or "thumbhole" stocks instead of pistol grips. As the production of large-capacity magazines for civilians had also been prohibited, manufacturers sold their post-ban firearms either with newly-manufactured magazines with capacities of ten rounds or less, or with pre-ban manufactured high-capacity magazines, to meet changing legal requirements.

***snip***

The law prohibited newly-manufactured detachable magazines with a capacity of more than ten rounds manufactured after enactment of the law from sale, transfer, or importation. One effect was the increased importation from other countries of large quantities of magazines manufactured before the ban. Former Warsaw Pact countries had large quantities of AK-47 magazines of various capacities that could fit a variety of both pre-ban and post-ban AK-47 variants. Existing stocks of pre-ban American-made magazines were likewise exempt from the ban; this resulted in a brief surge in domestic manufacture of high-capacity magazines before the law took effect. Large capacity magazines manufactured post-ban for military and law enforcement were stamped or etched with the logo "LEO" (for "Law Enforcement Only") and it was illegal for civilians to possess LEO magazines during the ban.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

I was able to obtain this information in far less than one minute. If I wrote a column for money, I would know a little about the subject I was commenting on.

[lawodevolution]

15. A tactic used by the gun ban folks is to take a "gun owner" and have him present argument

to ban the guns in question. I'm sure Mrs Brady owns guns too, still she wants to ban other people's guns.

If you draw out every step along the way to a total gun ban, every law that leads the way is considered to be common sense by some nuts, so it is within the best interests of gun owners to not allow any advancement of gun control no matter how "common sense" the anti gun people make is sound.

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. You called this the 'empathy' tactic, and the OP is a shining example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x361725#361836

Empathy: “I’m a gun owner and I support this common sense gun law.” KKK and Neo-NAZIs own guns and would support a ban on guns in the inner city so that minorities couldn’t own guns. The Brady’s themselves own guns, yet are willing to ban others from owning guns. This is another deceptive method to get you to support their Agenda. They want you to feel they are on your side, so you can either back off or aid them.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Euromutt]

22. Not to mention S.E. Cupp, Fox's resident "atheist"

I'm sure there's a perfectly innocent explanation why her views on atheism and atheists (sorry, other atheists) seem to be based on some fundie's misconception of what atheists think.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aikoaiko]

19. This new ban (10 rd, no post-ban transfer) faces something a different environment.

Laws concerning keeping and carrying of firearms have become more liberal over the last 16-17 years and as a result many more people are carrying firearms and keeping pistols in their homes. At the same time there are many more firearms that have standard magazine capacities over 10 rounds.

In full size pistols, the norm is now > than 10 rounds for full size pistols.

Some of my favorite pistols that I've used are:

This pistol shoot 45 ACP and holds 14 - 15 rounds at a time without an "extended" magazine. By extended I mean one that sticks out of the grip noticeably.

Thank you Canada for this gun.

This pistol shoots 9mm and holds 19 rounds without an extended magazine.

Thank you Serbia for this interesting design.

My point is that these are normal full size pistols and a lot of people own them. It not just Glocks anymore.

Not allowing magazines already in public ownership (new or used) to be transferred will also be an added hurdler

[Euromutt]

21. Pssst, the XD is Croatian, not Serbian

And the Glock itself is an Austrian design. As I understand it, the ones sold on the American market are assembled in Smyrna, GA, but the parts are largely imported.

[aikoaiko]

26. Oops, Croatian, you are correct.

[right2bfree]

29. There is NO reason that you need more ten 6 or ten bullets per magazine. nt

[shadowrider]

31. Thank you for determining what my needs are. Anything else you want

to deny me based on whether or not you think I need it?

[aikoaiko]

32. How did you come up with 10 as a maximum?

[shadowrider]

33. Cho had 10 round magazines and reloaded 17 times n/t

[SteveM]

48. "6 or ten." Which is it? Let me know when you find YOUR reason. nt

[beevul]

23. "I have black friends, but..." N/T

[Atypical Liberal]

25. SPORTING PURPOSES

The second amendment does not protect firearm ownership because of SPORTING PURPOSES.

The second amendment is about protecting the ownership of firearms APPROPRIATE FOR USE IN A MILITIA.

This means military-grade small arms appropriate for infantry use.

While protected by it, the second amendment is not about Jon Meacham's .22 and .410 shotgun.

[friendly_iconoclast]

36. This guy is just another Uncle Ruckus n/t

[guitar man]

37. +1 nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

41. For those unfamiliar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Ruckus

[SteveM]

45. Jon Meacham needs to justify the so-called "assault weapons ban."

Especially since some 17,000,000 Americans now own a weapon in this so-called "class" of semi-auto carbine. That is 5 million more Americans than who hunt. The so-called "assault weapon" is now the most popular center-fire rifle in the U.S., and will become the new big-game hunting rifle in my lifetime.

And he wants to ban this? Why? It is semi-auto (and old technology) of medium power, except for those now being chambered for big-game use. The weapon type is ergonomically superior to a bolt action, and kicks much less.

I am not impressed with Meacham's thinking, or lack thereof. I think his efforts are aimed at making a statement, and not bettering conditions in this society. And as such, he is going to have many other Americans "making statements" back. It's just more culture war. BTW, his ownership of firearms does not inoculate him from criticism for his control efforts.