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Guns in the News January 23 2004

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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:50 AM
Original message
Guns in the News January 23 2004
As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.
7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accordance with DU rules, any messages that appear to be personal attacks against another DU-er or violations of any other DU rule will be reported to the moderators.
8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. People fear guns. Yet, while guns make it easier for bad things to happen,
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107274,00.html

"The rebuttal to this claim always is: If these events were really happening, wouldn't we hear about them on the news? Many people tell me that they have never heard of an incident of defensive gun use. There is a good reason for their confusion. In 2001, the three major television networks -- ABC, CBS, and NBC -- ran 190,000 words' worth of gun-crime stories on their morning and evening national news broadcasts. But they ran not a single story mentioning a private citizen using a gun to stop a crime."
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Fox News AND Mary Rosh?
'Nuff saId....

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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. That Ain't Being Reported on Faux News, Either
Could it be that all these "defensive uses" of guns only exist in the warped minds of a few vocal pro-gunners?????
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. It's the bias of the liberal press (snicker)
folks like Conrad Black, Rupert Murdoch, Sun Myung Moon and Richard Mellon Scaife...
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Lies About Guns!
http://www.americandaily.com/item/4237

"Of course possibly the most maligned laws by gun control advocates are concealed carry laws. In every state, which allows citizens to carry weapons violent crime, has dropped yet the cries of gun grabbers to do away with these laws for safetys sake continue. The Self-Defense Survey proves most damning to the cries against these laws. Nearly 80% of the defensive gun uses were by citizens with concealed weapons. Further a quarter of the uses occurred away from the defenders home. Where would these innocent citizens have been without these laws?"
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Wow, what a source!!
Why is it the RKBA crowd only dredges in right wing cesspools?

"If one needs to be convinced that Democrats ought not to hold significant power within our government, one need only look at how they behave when they lose the power they did have. Like a hysterical adolescent mildly punished for already inappropriate behavior, Democrats are screaming irrationalities and inaccuracies because theyve been asked by the voters to step aside and let Republicans handle the war on terrorism and the economy. "

http://www.americandaily.com /

And jeepers I'll bet there'd be a lot of hooting and howling if I tried to tie gun owners to a buch of racist gibberish like this...

http://www.americandaily.com/item/4434

But fortunately, they've done it themselves.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. I figured that link...
...would get you out of the shadows. :toast:
Welcome back!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. When is it justified?: Recent shootings raise questions about the use of d
http://www.fltimes.com/Main.asp?SectionID=38&SubSection...

THE DETAILS

While the basic principle of the law is simple reasonable fear justifies self-defense there are many specifics that apply to civilians.

First, the law does not authorize deadly physical force against anyone who is already fleeing. Deadly force can only be used to prevent or stop a crime, and a burglar fleeing across the lawn means the crime is over. However, if the fleeing person is also kidnapping someone, that crime is still occurring and the force could be justified, Tantillo said, because so many kidnap victims are killed.

Justification also applies to people who shoot an assailant to defend a third person from what the shooter reasonably believes to be the imminent use of deadly physical force or to stop a person who has just committed murder, first-degree manslaughter, robbery (which involves the use or threatened use of force to steal property), forcible rape or forcible sodomy. (Article 35.30.4).
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Teen Brings Wrong Bullets to Failed Dania Beach Robbery
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 09:04 AM by demsrule4life
DANIA BEACH, Fla. (AP) - A teen trying to rob a convenience store was thwarted when he tried to load a rifle with the wrong-sized bullets.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGA5KTFNQPD.html

I thought I saw a report the other day that U.S. students were starting to do better in math.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Besides working on his math...
...he should work on his logic too. Why do you wait til the robbery is in progress before loading?

Oh well, another story for the 'Stupid Criminals' file.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Saw the security camera tape last night
It should go down in the files of "Crooks Are Stupid" fame.

He had his stocking hat pulled down over his eyes and was carrying what looked kind of like a Marlin 60 with a tube magazine and that little tiny slot for .22 LR rounds.

The guy tried to reload, with .40 cal ammo twice the size of the weapon in the middle of the store. As soon as the customers saw what he was doing they jumped on him and beat the crapola out of him till the cops showed up.

Hopefully they will prosecute the hell out of this jerk, add the gun charges to armed robbery and put him away for a long time.

OTOH his attorney will probably claim it wasn't really armed robbery because the gun wasn't loaded.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. That usually doesn't work...
...as a defense.
"OTOH his attorney will probably claim it wasn't really armed robbery because the gun wasn't loaded."

Even a finger in the pocket is considered armed robbery if the victim has a reason to believe that it was actually a gun.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. For Security's Sake, Relax Gun Control
http://allafrica.com/stories/200401050299.html

There are two options, in my view, to get ourselves out of the quandary. The first one is to carry out a countrywide "sweep" by cordoning and searching everywhere there is human activity. But this, of course, is impracticable.

The second is easy, but it always draws mixed reactions - the liberalisation of firearm ownership.

Kenyans are good debaters. Very good reasons will be given for and against the relaxation of restrictions on licensing firearms. Those who advocate this solution would carry the day. Unfortunately, they don't fall in the category which influences policy decisions save for Minister Martha Karua (after her infamous carjacking), and a few other highly-placed Kenyans.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. VIOLENT CRIME UP BY 14% England/wales.
"VIOLENT CRIME UP BY 14%"


"Violent crime has risen 14% during the third quarter of 2003, according to recorded crime figures."

"There were 289,500 violent crimes in England and Wales from July to September compared with 253,000 in the same period the previous year."


"Offences of violence against the person jumped 17% period-on-period to just under 250,000 incidents."

"This included an 18% rise in more serious violence such as homicide and serious wounding, from 10,000 to 11,800 incidents."

"Imitation firearms were used in 1,815 recorded crimes - a jump of 46% year-on-year. The overall number of firearm offences increased by 2% to 10,248 incidents, compared with a 34% rise in 2001-02."


http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-12977464,00...

Is sky news a reliable source in England?

If so, this can't be good.

If they are not, are thier statistics correct nonetheless?



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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Another link
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. It's Rupert Murdoch
peddling the phony English bloodbath AGAIN.

""There were 289,500 violent crimes in England and Wales from July to September"
Wow....that's in a population of 60 million people.

"The overall number of firearm offences increased by 2% to 10,248 incidents"
I'd bet Texas averages that many gun crimes a month. Yet it's the RKBA crowd's dishonest contention that Britain has the gun problem and not Texas.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. But that is not the argument
Total gun control should mean a less violent culture according to all the anti press out there.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. So tell us, dems
According to Mary Rosh, Texas ought to be a crime-free paradise...but it has almost as much violent crime all by itself as the entiure UK. Why is THAT?
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
50. So what is the percentage of CCW holders in
Texas compared to the total population? 2-3%? so this doesn't prove anything with Mary Rosh. Now what is the percentage of of disarmed law abiding Britain's? 90 or more percent? And the violent crime rate is increasing? What fucking scientists are working with Sara and the VPC?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Gee, dems...
Isn't the whole rationale for this idiotic law that criminals will be afraid to do their crimes because they never know who might be packing heat? Guess we can see what a steaming pantload that is.


"Bush's "safer" Texas now included individuals allowed to carry loaded, concealed weapons who were arrested for, as of March 1999, 15 charges of murder or attempted murder, six charges of kidnapping or false imprisonment, 28 charges of rape or sexual assault, 103 charges of assault or aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, 442 charges of DWI, 30 charges of indecency with children and 70 charges of sexual misconduct.
Interestingly, even though Bush's priority on his gun agenda is the NRA's effective mantra calling for "stronger enforcement of existing gun laws," he has done nothing to prosecute the 800 convicted felons who illegally applied for Texas CCW licenses.
When it comes to reconsidering the Texas CCW law, Bush has gone in the other direction. The 1995 CCW law prohibited Texans from carrying concealed handguns into official sporting events, bars, correctional facilities, amusement parks, hospitals, nursing homes and "established places of worship."
So Bush went back in 1997 and extended the law so the CCW holders could carry their guns into places like churches, amusement parks and rest homes.
On "Today," Katie Couric asked Bush why he signed the 1997 Texas bill specifically removing hospitals, churches and amusement parks from the list of places CCW holders were prohibited from bringing their guns. "You think it's perfectly all right for people to carry concealed weapons into churches across the country?" Couric asked.
"No, no, no," Bush said to Couric, "but churches ... no, I didn't say that. Churches in our state of Texas do not let ... if they don't want somebody doing that, it won't happen. The reason that part of the bill was passed is because preachers wanted to be able to carry a concealed weapon in their own home on church grounds. But people aren't carrying guns in churches in Texas."
It is true that Bush didn't "say that" -- but he did sign it into law."

http://archive.salon.com/politics2000/feature/2000/05/1...

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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. In both links?
Noone used the word bloodbath except you.

Are the statistics cited in iether source incorrect?

Please show it if they are.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Sky is Rupert Murdoch
and a pantload...

"Noone used the word bloodbath except you."
Yeah, but that's what's being claimed falsely AGAIN and it's been debunked over and over again. At least once a month this phony crap surfaces from the RKBA crowd.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. What about..
this link?

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=...

And this remaining unanswered question.

Are the statistics cited in iether source incorrect?

Please show it if they are.

"Yeah, but that's what's being claimed falsely AGAIN and it's been debunked over and over again. At least once a month this phony crap surfaces from the RKBA crowd."


Well, thats not what I am claiming. Nor is that what the articles claim.

The only claim here, is that crime, particularly the violent type and including guns, appears from the numbers shown in both links to be increasing, even after serious firearms limitation.


If it has indeed increased by such a large number, then an explanation of why that number is rising is in order, before any further firearms limitations on the law abiding citizens is passed, IMHO.




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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. What about it?
Your own source throws the statistics into doubt.

"But yesterday's police figures have been called into question by the findings of the British Crime Survey (BCS), which found that there were 3 per cent fewer crimes of violence in the year to September 2003 compared with a year earlier. "

Well, thats not what I am claiming.
Sure could have fooled me.


"If it has indeed increased by such a large number, then an explanation of why that number is rising is in order, before any further firearms limitations on the law abiding citizens is passed, IMHO."
I'm sure the British people give a fat rat's ass about what the RKBA crowd thinks. You will notice nobody in Britain thinks the problem can be solved by letting neurotics have pistol permits and assault weapons, with good reason. Of course, they don't let their gun industry set public policy, either.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. I should have been clearer.
"But yesterday's police figures have been called into question by the findings of the British Crime Survey (BCS), which found that there were 3 per cent fewer crimes of violence in the year to September 2003 compared with a year earlier. The BCS, a survey of adults in private households published by the Home Office at the same time as the police figures, includes offences not reported to the authorities."

"Although the police figures show a steep rise in violent crime since 1998, the BSC has recorded a drop since 1995."

"Yesterday's police figures showed overall, violent crime rose by 14 per cent to 289,500. This includes an 8 per cent rise in sexual offences to 14,000 crimes and a 2 per cent drop in robberies to nearly 26,000. Total recorded crime levels were unchanged and the BCS said that they were down 1 per cent."


Yeah, your right, a survey of adults in private households published by the Home Office is much more reliable than genuine police records.

I guess I should have been clearer.

If it has indeed increased by such a large number, then an explanation of why that number is rising is in order, before any further firearms limitations on the law abiding citizens of America is passed, IMHO.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. It's your source...
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 12:42 PM by MrBenchley
Ask me next if I care that now you think it's a pantload.

"then an explanation of why that number is rising is in order, before any further firearms limitations on the law abiding citizens of America is passed, IMHO."
Well, it's of a piece with your opinion on Britain and worthy of just as much consideration, in MINE. Especially taking into account the MUCH MUCH MUCH higher levels of gun violence here.....

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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. As ...
RoeBear has already pointed out, "It's not a discussion about......U.S. and British crime rates. It's a discussion about whether the oppressive gun laws in Britain are having the desired effect or not."

I challenge you to discuss it on that basis.


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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Gee, didn't you just say something about
how this affects "the law abiding citizens of America "? Guess that's "inoperative."

"I challenge you to discuss it on that basis."
Been there, done that. The British bloodbath turns out to be as phony as everything else the RKBA crowd dredges up.

One ought to ask oneself why every RKBA argument depends on denial, distortion or outright deception.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. It's not a discussion about...
...U.S. and British crime rates. It's a discussion about whether the oppressive gun laws in Britain are having the desired effect or not.

This would seem to indicate they are not having the effect that was expected.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
9. Officer Made Up Story; Admits Shooting Himself- LOUISVILLE
"Juvenile Officer Had Said Bulletproof Vest Saved Life"

"LOUISVILLE -- A juvenile court officer in Louisville said he was shot by a black man Wednesday night, but now police say he was lying."

"A police spokesman said Satterly admitted to investigators that he shot himself. After the shooting he tried to get rid of the bullet lodged in his vest. The bullet was tested at the Kentucky State Police crime lab, where officials said it matched those in Satterly's gun, WLKY reported. When the officer was confronted about the evidence, Satterly reportedly admitted that he shot himself."

"Satterly said in his report that he was shot after he told the man he didn't have any junior police badges to give out."

"He was arrested and was jailed in the Jefferson County Corrections Center on charges of tampering with physical evidence, a felony, and filing a false police report, a misdemeanor."

http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/news/2785691/detail...

If the general populace should ever be disarmed, people like this asshole will still get a gun.

Criminals that is.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. Man who shot burglar says he served 'civic duty' (update on WILMETTE)
"Man who shot burglar says he served 'civic duty'"

"THE ASSOCIATED PRESS "

"WILMETTE A man charged with breaking the village's ban on handguns after he shot a burglar said he had "served my civic duty" if he spared another family the trauma his endured."

""If my actions have spared only one family from the distress and trauma that this habitual criminal has caused . . . others, then I have served my civic duty and taken one evil creature off of our streets, something that our impotent criminal-justice system had failed to do," DeMar wrote."

"The Wilmette Police Department had no comment Thursday on DeMar's letter, according to spokesman Roger Ockrim. But Police Chief George Carpenter defended the handgun ban at a packed Village Board meeting earlier this month."

""My experience is handguns create a hazard in the home," Carpenter said. "My experience is that handguns are far more likely to be stolen, to be used or threatened to be used in domestic situations or to be used or threatened to be used in suicides.""

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/city/a23i...

I wonder if chief Carpenter takes his service weapon home, or keeps a handgun in the privacy of HIS own home.



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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Silly question...
...he'd do the same that he asks you to do. Dial 911 and wait.

Surrrrrrrrrrrrrre he would!

But that's only because cops are better than we are. Just ask them.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. Jury deadlocks in killing of teen (IN)
"After six hours of deliberations, a Marion County jury deadlocked late Thursday in the trial of a teen accused of gunning down his 14-year-old friend in an alley.
Keith Munden's boyish looks may have made it difficult for the jury to convict him of shooting William Anthony Boicourt a year ago, a stunned Deputy Prosecutor Tom Kramer said after the verdict.
Judge Sheila Carlisle declared a mistrial about 10:45 p.m. Munden is scheduled to be tried again Feb. 23."

http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/114011-3895-009.html
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Welcome to the thread...
...MrB.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. Deadly dials for fake cellphones NZ
This one is sure to make some blood boil. :evilgrin:




Deadly dials for fake cellphones

23.01.2004


"A gun that looks like a cellphone - and which is being sold overseas - is worrying New Zealand police and Customs authorities. "

""Customs officers are regularly updated on new developments and items they should be on the alert for," she said. "

"It is understood caches of the weapons have been found in Europe, but that they have not yet emerged in the United States."

"Few details about the cellphone gun are available."

"More recently, a Croatian arms dealer was caught trying to smuggle some through Slovenia into Western Europe. Yugoslavia is being suggested as the source."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3545...

There is a video clip of the phone here:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/video/cellgun.mpg

"the video clip shows the cellphone sliding in half below the display screen and the bases of the cartridge cases"


That darned corrupt yugoslavian gun indusrty...







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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
19. Person Spotted on Overpass After Shooting (OH)
"COLUMBUS, Ohio - A man whose car was struck by a bullet on an interstate said he saw someone standing on an overpass after the shooting.
Michael Thomas, 30, said he saw someone standing in the shadows in front of a parked car about 12:45 a.m. Thursday while driving home from work on Interstate 71.
Two shell casings recovered from the overpass were being analyzed, authorities said. Thomas said sheriff's deputies confirmed that a bullet had hit his car and ricocheted into the windshield.
There was no indication the casings were connected to 19 other shootings in the area linked by investigators. Those shootings occurred on or near a southern section of Interstate 270, which circles the city. Thursday's shooting occurred about eight miles south of I-270. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
52. UPDATE: New Shooting Linked
"Investigators in Columbus have linked a 20th shooting to a string of shootings in southern Columbus.
Franklin County Chief Deputy Steve Martin said in a media conference Friday that a shooting Thursday morning at 12:45 a.m. on I-71 near Lambert Road in Columbus is linked to the shooting that killed Gail Knisely on November 25, 2003. "

http://www.onnnews.com/story.php?record=28633
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
22. Shooting of entrant under investigation (AZ)
"A 23-year-old Mexican man remains in critical condition at University Medical Center after he was shot in the back this week while crossing illegally into the United States.
The Pima County Sheriff's Department is investigating the shooting, but investigators do not know who shot the man nor have they identified a motive, said Deputy Dawn Barkman, an agency spokeswoman.
Jose Alberto Romero Marn had several organs pierced by the gunshot, including his kidney, said Sul Romero Casillos, the man's uncle. They both had traveled from Lahuacana, a city in the Mexican state of Michoacan. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/azstar/2...

Wasn't the RKBA crowd on here a few weeks ago cheerleading for some armed racist vigilante group?

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
28. Teen Charged As Adult In Shooting Death (FL)
"Police said he shot and killed 19-year-old Clay Austin four days after Christmas. Austin was sitting in a jeep with friends in the parking lot of Abess Park Elementary School. Another teen arrested in the case will be charged as an adult next week."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
30. Man Shot In Head In Drive-By (TX)
"Police said the victim was standing in front of his home in the 800 block of Bailey when someone in a car opened fire.
The man suffered a gunshot wound to the head and was transported to Brooke Army Medical Center in critical condition. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
33. New trial date set in killings (MO)
"A Wyandotte County judge on Thursday scheduled a new trial date for Darrell Lamont Stallings, one of two men accused in shootings that left five persons dead.
District Judge Thomas L. Boeding denied Stallings' new attorneys' request to postpone the trial a year so they could prepare Stallings' defense. He could face the death penalty.
Prosecutors had asked for the trial to start in 30 to 45 days. Boeding set the trial for Aug. 2. The case already is 19 months old.
Stallings, 34, and Errik A. Harris, 27, are charged in the June 10, 2002, shooting deaths of Destiny Wiles, 23; Tameika Jackson, 24; Samantha Sigler, 24; Trina Jennings, 26; and Melvin Montague, 34."

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/777...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
34. Hancock issues become a key focus of gun case
"JEFFERSON CITY Until Thursday, most of the legal arguments over Missouri's new concealed-weapons law had focused on whether a section of the state constitution bans concealed weapons.
But the focus of the debate may have shifted Thursday when the Missouri Supreme Court took up the matter in a courtroom crowded with reporters and supporters and opponents of the law.
The Hancock amendment, which limits state government spending and bars unfunded mandates, became a key topic as oral arguments were presented.
Newman said that the framers of the 1875 Missouri Constitution clearly wanted to ban the carrying of concealed weapons, which they referred to as an incalculable evil. "

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/777...

You might recall Missouri voters have already rejected the proposal, but the corrupt gun industrry and the GOP muscled it through anyway.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
38. Man Reportedly Shot While Changing Tire (MI)
"A man in his early 50s was reportedly shot while changing a tire off Interstate 75 early Friday morning.
The victim had pulled off northbound I-75, near Springwells, around midnight, Local 4 learned. He was changing a tire on his vehicle when someone shot him at least once in the stomach, according to police.
The victim was listed in critical condition at a hospital. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20...
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milliner Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. Shooting outside North Aurora eatery kills one
NORTH AURORA A dispute involving several people at a Denny's restaurant early Saturday spilled into the parking lot, where a man was shot to death as police were en route to the business, authorities said.

A suspect, described as an Aurora man in his early 20s, later was arrested and taken to the North Aurora Police Department, where he remained in custody late Saturday, police said. The man had not been charged.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/archives/...


I'm on to somthun here, I can just feel it. These Denny places should be checked out by ATF
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
40. Police: Man Recovers After Being Robbed And Shot In Head (OK)
"Two men broke into the man's apartment on Northwest 10th Street at about 5 a.m., authorities said.
The man told police he was with a woman when the men walked in and shot him in the head. Lt. Damon Alexander, of the Oklahoma City Police Department, said the victim believes the woman set him up.
"It appears that the female knew the suspects as she left with those suspects and it appears she left willingly," Alexander said."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
42. Prosecutors say ex-felon ordered slaying of Hialeah informant
The corrupt gun industry in action...

"MIAMI -- Attempting to get Florida's first federal death sentence, prosecutors told a jury Thursday that an ex-convict ordered a longtime friend to shoot a man who informed on his father in a gunrunning case.
But Louis Gonzalez Lauzan Jr.'s attorneys said in opening statements that the friend has been bought off by prosecutors with a life sentence for the 2002 slaying of Alexander Texidor.
Gonzalez Sr. was sentenced to more than three years in prison in the gun case. Gonzalez was accused of filing serial numbers off handguns and shipping them to Honduras. His son lived with his parents and had a 1997 conviction for possession of a silencer."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/miami/sfl-123inf...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
43. Two die in Stark YMCA shootings (OH)
"Posted on Fri, Jan. 23, 2004
Two die in Stark YMCA shootings
"A man who was being evicted from the YMCA in downtown Canton for having alcohol in his room shot and killed the agency's head of maintenance Thursday before turning the gun on himself, police said.
YMCA property manager Charles Hinton Jr., 42, and resident Jeffrey Marshall, 69, both died in a sixth-floor hallway at the agency, at McKinley Avenue and Second Street Northwest.
Hinton and two other employees had gone to Marshall's room in the Y's residential area to evict him. A short time later, Marshall armed himself with a handgun and came out into the hall shooting, Canton police Lt. David Kurzinsky said."

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/local/7777421.htm
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
46. D.C.-area snipers may have planned attacks near Tacoma
"Virginia prosecutors have concluded that D.C.-area snipers John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo had set up a snipers' nest in a Tacoma-area field and were "preparing or training" to kill randomly with a rifle more than a month before the Beltway shootings began.
The pair were interrupted and forced to abandon the rifle, police and prosecutors said, when a truck cut through the field where they were set up behind an apartment complex early on the morning of Aug. 17, 2002.
"I think it's fair to say that we believe they were set up to shoot someone. We can't say who or why," said Deputy Prince William County Prosecutor Attorney James Willett. "Based on their subsequent actions the random shootings of 10 people (in the D.C. area) it is a reasonable assumption that they were preparing and training there (in Tacoma) for what eventually happened here." "

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001842...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
47. Dangerous Weapons Discovered In Hotel Room
"Houston police converged on the F.M. 1960 West hotel and blocked off its parking lot around 4:30 p.m. Thursday after they received a call that a maintenance worker found weapons in several areas of a room.
Officials recovered a machine gun, two pistols, two non-active grenades, several out-of-state license plates, a bullet-proof vest and a mask.
Alfred John Annunzzi was found dead inside the room Saturday. The manager identified the man's body. Officials said there was no obvious cause of death.
Investigators are using serial numbers on all of the weapons with hopes of trying to track down where the weapons came from and what the plans for their use might have been. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=320&nci...

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
48. Woman guilty in boyfriend's death (NC)
"Becky Hillier, accused of shooting her boyfriend in the head and charged with murder, had rejected an offer to plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter in a deal with prosecutors that would have likely put her in prison for about four years.
On Thursday, a Mecklenburg jury convicted Hillier of second-degree murder in connection with the July 2001 slaying of Michael Harrison Walker.
Hillier was sentenced to at least 13 years and one month in prison. If she gets in trouble in prison, she could spend up to 16 years and six months behind bars."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/7776482.htm
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
49. Teen Arrested, Charged With Killing Tampa Security Guard
"TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - Sheriff's deputies arrested a 16-year-old boy Friday and charged him with fatally shooting an unarmed motel security guard earlier this week.
Terry Lewis Crecy, of Clair Mel City, was arrested about 4 a.m. and booked at the Hillsborough County Juvenile Assessment Center on charges of first-degree murder and attempted armed robbery, sheriff's officials said.
He is charged with killing Steven Webb, 56, also of Clair Mel City, who was patrolling the Masters Inn near the Florida State Fairgrounds. "

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGA7J7YNSPD.html
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
53. Phoned Threat Deemed a Hoax (PA)
For once a happy ending....

"Police officials in Upper Merion say they never had any reason to believe it was a credible threat. But they were not about to take any chances.
This morning a 9-1-1 phone call was made by someone indicating a student had entered Upper Merion Middle School with a weapon possibly a handgun. Police moved in, blocked off every exit from the school, and checked each and every student with a metal detector. Ironically, school officials were planning to run a weapons threat drill in the near future.
The ordeal left in its wake, a bunch of shaken children and relieved parents. Once the threat was deemed a hoax, school officials resumed classes, and any parent who picked up a child early was allowed to do so. "

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/012304_nw_schoollockdo...
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. All kinds of actual guns in this one.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Try not to sound so disappointed
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 05:05 PM by MrBenchley
Maybe Monday there'll be another school shooting, and you'll be able to pretend guns have nothing to do with it.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Thought this was guns in the news
not phone hoax news.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Um <snicker> OK.


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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Yup......
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Old stuff
Anything new?
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. How about this one
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Does That "CNS" Next to The "Artist's" Name....
...refer to the Cyber News Service? The worst news site on the Internet? A place that makes the Washington Times look like a reputable news source????

All in all, it doesn't seem to be a place where progressive Democrats would search for information.....
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #64
65. No idea, CO
I ran into them on a pro-gun site.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. I Just Right-Clicked On Your Image...
Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 08:53 AM by CO Liberal
...and saw that it came from www.keepandbeararms.com, a site that has been identified on this board as being agenda-laden and unreliable as a news source.

Amazing how so many pro-gunners have to turn to right-wing wacko sources to back up their positions......
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #67
71. Are you surprised?
Neither am I.....

Any more than I'm surprised that the RKBA crowd tied themselves to this bit of racist garbage furhter up the thread...

http://www.americandaily.com/item/4434
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. Thats ok.
"I Just Right-Clicked On Your Image...
...and saw that it came from www.keepandbeararms.com, a site that has been identified on this board as being agenda-laden and unreliable as a news source."

That may be true. I'll keep that in mind if I ever think about using them as a news source. I found them doing a google search for pro-gun cartoons. As far as being agenda laden, well, so was the "school shooting" comment I was responding to, and the cartoon that responded to mine.

"Amazing how so many pro-gunners have to turn to right-wing wacko sources to back up their positions..."

As to thier being a "right-wing wacko" source, well, I don't know.
Is it important, since all I was linking to was a cartoon which ARE "single issue" cartoons that attack the anti-gun lobby, from a "single issue" source? I guess thats up to you to decide for yourself. It isn't to me. In fact, that pretty fucking thin.

I hold a pro-gun position without subscribing to 90 percent of that which on this board is seen as a republican position, and thats enough in my view to call myself a Democrat. I'm sorry if thats not enough for the anti-gun crowd.







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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. Does the RKBA crowd ever have any "opinion"
that isn't dredged from some right wing cesspool?
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. On the flip side
are anti's capable of having their own opinions? or just what is spewed from sara and the VPC?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. Apparantly Not
Seeing as so many of their opinions come from that human turd and Faux News shill, John "Cook The Books" Lott. And others of his ilk.

The link between pro-gun and right-wing is easily documented every day. Yet some of them are trying to convince us that theirs is a truly "liberal" position.

Go figure........
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. And remember
the only way to show our opposition to John AshKKKroft is to swallow his agenda and knuckle under to his most extreme and most racist supporters, according to the RKBA crowd.

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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. Document this...
Hers your link, CO. The same type of link that you said that could be documented every day.

I am pro choice, pro-equality, pro-free speech, and pro-choice on guns. I wonder which party best fits those views as a whole.

I guess the link between pro-gun and a liberal is easily documented every day too right here in J/PS, if one could just see past thier own prejudices.

Or maybe tolerance and inclusion only apply toward everyone NOT firearm inclined.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
56. 2 Arrested in Lindenwold Shooting (PA)
"The suspects were taken into custody in Lawnside this afternoon. SWAT teams were searching along Atlantic Avenue in Barrington for the other two.
The four are wanted for the murder of 20-year old Maurice Thomas, who was shot to death late last night inside the Green Tree apartments. "

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/012304_nw_lindenwoldsh...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
59. Innocent Bystander Dies After Des Allemands Bar Fight (LA)
"A fight at a Des Allemands truck stop Tuesday resulted in the death of an innocent man and the arrest of several people, one of whom was booked with second-degree murder, according to Lafourche Parish Sheriff Craig Webre.
The two men ran toward the SUV and one of them jumped in the vehicle, which was occupied by a woman and her 20-year-old son. The man asked the woman to drive away. As she did, one of the men involved in the fight, Gary Joseph Hebert Jr., pulled out a rifle and fired one shot at the rear of the vehicle, the sheriff's office said.
The bullet went through the rear window and struck the womans son, who was sitting in the front seat, in the head. The woman drove across the Des Allemands bridge into St. Charles Parish and pulled over at a convenience store.
An ambulance was called and the victim, Laverne Charles, was taken to St. Charles Hospital, where he died. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=378&nci...
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
74. Cops: Burgled homeowner called the shots(Sommerville, Mass)
http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/localRegiona...

"A Somerville homeowner shot and wounded a man who broke into his home near Davis Square yesterday afternoon, police said.

The homeowner, whom police declined to identify, told detectives he had just come out of the shower shortly before 1 p.m. when he heard the back door being forced open.

The homeowner, who is licensed to possess firearms, confronted the burglar and shot him in the shoulder, according to police."
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-04 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
75. locking--out of date
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